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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
MAC_32
Footballguy
I was about to head out for my long run, was just pulling out the running tights when I looked out the window - another snow squall. Only another inch, but now it's warming up and I can't tell what is falling from the sky. Going to try again soon not knowing whether I'm running 5 or 20 miles.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Urkops Monument Avenue 10K
The past two weeks haven't been great for me. I feel like maybe I peaked physically and mentally around the time of my half marathon 3 weeks ago. I've been dealing with a lingering back issue and quite honestly, just lacking of motivation for whatever reason. My back started to feel better and better as the past week went on but out of nowhere it made an appearance for my shake out run yesterday. I just felt awful. My back hurt and my heart rate was way too high. It was pretty much the opposite of how you want a shake out to go.
The race is Richmond, VA which is about 2 hours NW from the beach. The race starts at 8:30 so figured I'd need to leave around 5AM to give myself plenty of time for a warm-up and get my bearing at a race I've never done before. This is a big race as far as 10K's go. Usually around 30K finishers and some good talent. Me and couple of buddies who are going just to spectate arrive around 7. Weather is not too terrible. It's low 40's but a tad windy. Blowing at around 16 mph with gusts around mid 20's.
Get settled and decide to go out for my warm-up around 40 minutes before the start. I make a decision to turnoff my HR monitor on my watch because I don't want any want to know if it's bad today. Honestly, I'm not feeling too confident. My back doesn't feel bad as I warm-up but I can tell nerves are getting to me a bit. Jog about 2 miles, stretch and do some form drills. Turn my HR monitor back on. Take off my warmups and hand them to a buddy and we're off.
We start off into the wind and I try to find a group to pace off. I found most of the race difficult to find a good rhythm. Eventually I find a group running in the low 6's and I try to hang.
Mile 1 - 6:10 (180)
Feels like right when I'm ready to settle in, we hit a long stretch of cobble stones. Nothing too crazy but no fun either.
Mile 2 - 6:15 (190)
We start to head up a slight incline and mentally, I'm starting to falter a bit. Feeling like it's not my day. The head wind isn't helping. Hit the mile 3 maker and see my worst split of the day 6:20 (193). Run over the 5K timing mat at 19:31. I'm starting to think that getting under 39 minutes isn't going to happen. Thinking maybe I should consider just trying to salvage sub 40 for pride's sake.
Just when I'm ready to throw in the towel for my "A" goal, we head back down the hill with wind out our backs and I run my fastest split of the day.
Mile 4 - 6:09 (194)
It's back on but I'm definitely hurting. Just hang on.
Mile 5 - 6:16 (195)
Okay, now I'm really hurting and I'm having visions of the end of my HM where I puked in a trash can. Just doing my best to hold it together.
Mile 6 - 6:16 (197)
Do my best to kick in and not give away any seconds here and finish the last .24 with a 5:49 pace.
Stop my watch at 38:50.9. A 35 second PR. Officially, I ran a 38:52. 139/23,114 & 12/1052
Not sure how I feel about this race to honest. Obviously, I'm happy that kept grinding and came home with a nice result but part of me was hoping for more. I was hoping for a day where it came a little more naturally. Felt like I had to earn it big time. Honestly though, I think I have a lot to work on with my mental game. Sure I can push through when it gets tough but sometimes I wonder if I make things tougher because I can be so negative and pessimistic.
Anyway, I have 2 more 5k's on my schedule for this spring. One on Saturday and one the first week in May. Not sure what my plan is going to be. I feel like I've accomplished all that I wanted the first part of this year already. So I'm not crazy motivated to do any more hard racing for a while. I mean, hell, I've PR'd the 5K, 10K and half marathon the past 6 weeks! I've PR'd EVERYTHING from 5K-50K in the past 6 months. I think I need a break.
The past two weeks haven't been great for me. I feel like maybe I peaked physically and mentally around the time of my half marathon 3 weeks ago. I've been dealing with a lingering back issue and quite honestly, just lacking of motivation for whatever reason. My back started to feel better and better as the past week went on but out of nowhere it made an appearance for my shake out run yesterday. I just felt awful. My back hurt and my heart rate was way too high. It was pretty much the opposite of how you want a shake out to go.
The race is Richmond, VA which is about 2 hours NW from the beach. The race starts at 8:30 so figured I'd need to leave around 5AM to give myself plenty of time for a warm-up and get my bearing at a race I've never done before. This is a big race as far as 10K's go. Usually around 30K finishers and some good talent. Me and couple of buddies who are going just to spectate arrive around 7. Weather is not too terrible. It's low 40's but a tad windy. Blowing at around 16 mph with gusts around mid 20's.
Get settled and decide to go out for my warm-up around 40 minutes before the start. I make a decision to turnoff my HR monitor on my watch because I don't want any want to know if it's bad today. Honestly, I'm not feeling too confident. My back doesn't feel bad as I warm-up but I can tell nerves are getting to me a bit. Jog about 2 miles, stretch and do some form drills. Turn my HR monitor back on. Take off my warmups and hand them to a buddy and we're off.
We start off into the wind and I try to find a group to pace off. I found most of the race difficult to find a good rhythm. Eventually I find a group running in the low 6's and I try to hang.
Mile 1 - 6:10 (180)
Feels like right when I'm ready to settle in, we hit a long stretch of cobble stones. Nothing too crazy but no fun either.
Mile 2 - 6:15 (190)
We start to head up a slight incline and mentally, I'm starting to falter a bit. Feeling like it's not my day. The head wind isn't helping. Hit the mile 3 maker and see my worst split of the day 6:20 (193). Run over the 5K timing mat at 19:31. I'm starting to think that getting under 39 minutes isn't going to happen. Thinking maybe I should consider just trying to salvage sub 40 for pride's sake.
Just when I'm ready to throw in the towel for my "A" goal, we head back down the hill with wind out our backs and I run my fastest split of the day.
Mile 4 - 6:09 (194)
It's back on but I'm definitely hurting. Just hang on.
Mile 5 - 6:16 (195)
Okay, now I'm really hurting and I'm having visions of the end of my HM where I puked in a trash can. Just doing my best to hold it together.
Mile 6 - 6:16 (197)
Do my best to kick in and not give away any seconds here and finish the last .24 with a 5:49 pace.
Stop my watch at 38:50.9. A 35 second PR. Officially, I ran a 38:52. 139/23,114 & 12/1052
Not sure how I feel about this race to honest. Obviously, I'm happy that kept grinding and came home with a nice result but part of me was hoping for more. I was hoping for a day where it came a little more naturally. Felt like I had to earn it big time. Honestly though, I think I have a lot to work on with my mental game. Sure I can push through when it gets tough but sometimes I wonder if I make things tougher because I can be so negative and pessimistic.
Anyway, I have 2 more 5k's on my schedule for this spring. One on Saturday and one the first week in May. Not sure what my plan is going to be. I feel like I've accomplished all that I wanted the first part of this year already. So I'm not crazy motivated to do any more hard racing for a while. I mean, hell, I've PR'd the 5K, 10K and half marathon the past 6 weeks! I've PR'd EVERYTHING from 5K-50K in the past 6 months. I think I need a break.
Last edited by a moderator:
Wow, you guys are blazin'. Nice times @pbm107 @FUBAR @tri-man 47 @Juxtatarot and great race reports as well. I can only dream of that kind of speed.
I finished my midnight 50 mile race this weekend, which was essentially my goal. I'll try to post a race report tonight or tomorrow.
I finished my midnight 50 mile race this weekend, which was essentially my goal. I'll try to post a race report tonight or tomorrow.
Hang 10
Footballguy
More miles. Workouts that have 10-13 miles with 4-7 miles worth of quality. Probably some long runs with some progressions.
pbm107
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm still testing things out, but I think finishing on an incline is going to pay dividends. Force those hams, glutes, and calves to fire when they don't want to.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
@ChiefD - congrats on the PR! Love seeing the confidence coming out of your.
@Juxtatarot - good work fighting through the conditions.
@tri-man 47 - You've made some big strides this season. How'd you do it?!
@pbm107 - Thrilled to see you break through on the HM!
@Hang 10 - Man, you've gotten so damn fast! Don't be afraid to take a break...
@FUBAR -
at being ho hum about a 1:31. Great job!
@SayWhat? - Congrats on the 50! You're nuts....
--------------------------
On my end, I ran a 5K yesterday.
A friend of ours had a brain aneurysm about a year and a half ago and has made a nearly full recovery. She's been active in the local brain aneurysm foundation. They were hosting a small 5K to raise funds for reasearch, so we all got together as a fund raising team; 74 of us ran/walked the race yesterday (out of 206 total people). It was cool to actually be a part of the fund raising effort instead of just being there to race for a change.
Me and another guy from the team took off and lead the race. We took turns leading into the wind, but he was a good bit faster than me and got about a 20sec gap on me halfway through. I guess we caught the course workers by surprise....we apparently beat them to the turn around point and blew right through it. It was supposed to be an out/back with some goofy little turn around. When we were at 1.8 and still not turned around, I knew something was wrong. We ended up way off course and turned back in when we hit the main entrance of the park.
The 2 of us somehow got split up when we worked our way back into the runners. I was hurting pretty bad and was really confused. It didn't really click until about 2.5mi in when I realized these weren't walkers (who suddenly decided to run) that we were passing (the walkers started later and were doing a shortened route). We went way out of our way! I kept slowing down knowing I was running an unknown distance....I ended up running 4.1 miles in 27:15. :X God that hurt so fricken bad. I couldn't help but laugh at it afterwards - its the story of my 2016.
1 - 6:10/177
2 - 6:27/185
3 - 6:51/187
4 - 6:58/183
I'm guessing I was probably around a 19:30ish pace.
@Juxtatarot - good work fighting through the conditions.
@tri-man 47 - You've made some big strides this season. How'd you do it?!
@pbm107 - Thrilled to see you break through on the HM!
@Hang 10 - Man, you've gotten so damn fast! Don't be afraid to take a break...
@FUBAR -
at being ho hum about a 1:31. Great job!@SayWhat? - Congrats on the 50! You're nuts....
--------------------------
On my end, I ran a 5K yesterday.
A friend of ours had a brain aneurysm about a year and a half ago and has made a nearly full recovery. She's been active in the local brain aneurysm foundation. They were hosting a small 5K to raise funds for reasearch, so we all got together as a fund raising team; 74 of us ran/walked the race yesterday (out of 206 total people). It was cool to actually be a part of the fund raising effort instead of just being there to race for a change.
Me and another guy from the team took off and lead the race. We took turns leading into the wind, but he was a good bit faster than me and got about a 20sec gap on me halfway through. I guess we caught the course workers by surprise....we apparently beat them to the turn around point and blew right through it. It was supposed to be an out/back with some goofy little turn around. When we were at 1.8 and still not turned around, I knew something was wrong. We ended up way off course and turned back in when we hit the main entrance of the park.
The 2 of us somehow got split up when we worked our way back into the runners. I was hurting pretty bad and was really confused. It didn't really click until about 2.5mi in when I realized these weren't walkers (who suddenly decided to run) that we were passing (the walkers started later and were doing a shortened route). We went way out of our way! I kept slowing down knowing I was running an unknown distance....I ended up running 4.1 miles in 27:15. :X God that hurt so fricken bad. I couldn't help but laugh at it afterwards - its the story of my 2016.
1 - 6:10/177
2 - 6:27/185
3 - 6:51/187
4 - 6:58/183
I'm guessing I was probably around a 19:30ish pace.
Ned
Footballguy
igbomb
Footballguy
Kicked off training for my next race. Looking at another half in June.
I feel like I fell into a trap in the last month or two of training for my last race where I ran my slow runs a lot faster than I should have. I was chasing those best effort trophies all the time and spent almost all of my runs at my goal race pace. I also had very little speed work built into my plan
So this time I'm making a concerted effort to just slow down on slow days and add in some more deliberate speed days. Eight weeks until my next race.
3-Apr Time: 1:56
Early goal for June: 1:51
I feel like I fell into a trap in the last month or two of training for my last race where I ran my slow runs a lot faster than I should have. I was chasing those best effort trophies all the time and spent almost all of my runs at my goal race pace. I also had very little speed work built into my plan
So this time I'm making a concerted effort to just slow down on slow days and add in some more deliberate speed days. Eight weeks until my next race.
3-Apr Time: 1:56
Early goal for June: 1:51
pbm107
Footballguy
The Love Run Race Report
Going into this race I knew my fitness was much better than my soft PR of 1:28:12, but really didn't know by how much. After plugging in my most recent race (17:49 5K) into the McMillan Calc it spit out a 6:18 pace for the half which I figured was my best case scenario. The fact that I am planning on being quite aggressive in my 10 miler next month and my lack of success at this distance the plan was to to be conservative early and run the first three miles at 6:30 pace and then go from there.
Miles 1-3 (6:26, 6:20, 6:25)
I have run a bunch of races in Philly and typically during this stretch there is a lot of crowd support but there was nothing for this race. Most of this time period I was worrying about my GPS accuracy, it typically struggles with the buildings downtown, but the watch did fairly well with this section. Somewhere during this stretch I decided that I would not change the screen on my watch to display my HR, I wanted to stay out of my own head and run by feel.
Miles 4-7 (6:17, 6:25, 6:23, 6:48)
Mentally this stretch was the most difficult part of the race for me. There was a pretty decent headwind and my legs just didn't feel right. I don't know why mile 7 was so slow, my watch had me at 6:30 pace but the mile marker was .04 mile longer than the watch.
Mile 8 (6:52)
This was my slowest mile but also the turning point of the race. This mile had the only significant hill and without putting in much effort I left the small group I was with and caught up to another. I think I may be an above average hill runner, I have noticed in Strava my elevation numbers are higher than most in group (with the exception of Duck and FUBAR).
Mile 9 (6:07)
This section goes down the hill we went up in Mile 8 and the change in elevation going up and the down really woke up my legs.
Miles 10-11 (6:19, 6:13)
It was a cold morning with the wind chill in the 20s, but after mile 10 I ditched my hat and arm warmers. At the 10 mile marker I see that I have set a new 10 mile PR.
Miles 12-13 (6:04, 6:00)
I don't know if there was a decent tailwind or what but in mile 12 I got in a really nice rhythm. I was passing all sorts of people, legs felt strong, and my breathing was mostly controlled. Just past the 12 mile marker I noticed I was at 5:50 pace but my breathing was really labored. The legs felt pretty good, but the free ride was over, I was really working. Just past the 13 mile marker there is this little hill that made the last 0.1 mile torture.
Overall: 1:23:23 (6:21/mi)
I am happy with this result, but similar to Hang10 I am looking forward to a break. I have 2 more weeks of training before my one week taper for Broad Street. May will definitely be a cutback month.
Going into this race I knew my fitness was much better than my soft PR of 1:28:12, but really didn't know by how much. After plugging in my most recent race (17:49 5K) into the McMillan Calc it spit out a 6:18 pace for the half which I figured was my best case scenario. The fact that I am planning on being quite aggressive in my 10 miler next month and my lack of success at this distance the plan was to to be conservative early and run the first three miles at 6:30 pace and then go from there.
Miles 1-3 (6:26, 6:20, 6:25)
I have run a bunch of races in Philly and typically during this stretch there is a lot of crowd support but there was nothing for this race. Most of this time period I was worrying about my GPS accuracy, it typically struggles with the buildings downtown, but the watch did fairly well with this section. Somewhere during this stretch I decided that I would not change the screen on my watch to display my HR, I wanted to stay out of my own head and run by feel.
Miles 4-7 (6:17, 6:25, 6:23, 6:48)
Mentally this stretch was the most difficult part of the race for me. There was a pretty decent headwind and my legs just didn't feel right. I don't know why mile 7 was so slow, my watch had me at 6:30 pace but the mile marker was .04 mile longer than the watch.
Mile 8 (6:52)
This was my slowest mile but also the turning point of the race. This mile had the only significant hill and without putting in much effort I left the small group I was with and caught up to another. I think I may be an above average hill runner, I have noticed in Strava my elevation numbers are higher than most in group (with the exception of Duck and FUBAR).
Mile 9 (6:07)
This section goes down the hill we went up in Mile 8 and the change in elevation going up and the down really woke up my legs.
Miles 10-11 (6:19, 6:13)
It was a cold morning with the wind chill in the 20s, but after mile 10 I ditched my hat and arm warmers. At the 10 mile marker I see that I have set a new 10 mile PR.
Miles 12-13 (6:04, 6:00)
I don't know if there was a decent tailwind or what but in mile 12 I got in a really nice rhythm. I was passing all sorts of people, legs felt strong, and my breathing was mostly controlled. Just past the 12 mile marker I noticed I was at 5:50 pace but my breathing was really labored. The legs felt pretty good, but the free ride was over, I was really working. Just past the 13 mile marker there is this little hill that made the last 0.1 mile torture.
Overall: 1:23:23 (6:21/mi)
I am happy with this result, but similar to Hang10 I am looking forward to a break. I have 2 more weeks of training before my one week taper for Broad Street. May will definitely be a cutback month.
Hoping to be a bit more involved here, as there's just so much knowledge to gain from this thread...so with that, my first ever FFA Race Report!
2016 Zumbro 50 Mile Endurance Run
Race Info - This is a 17 mile loop course event with race options of 17 mile, 50 mile (3 loops), or 100 mile (6 loops). The race is held in the bluffs of the Zumbro River Bottoms Management Area in SE Minnesota. The 50 mile course has total elevation gain of 9,294ft and loss of the same. The field limit was 200 racers for the 50 mile, and I believe something like ~180-190 signed up. The most notable nugget relating to this race is that it's a midnight start, so off we go...
Pre-Race - I signed up for this race a few months back with the thought that it would get my ### back out training, and be great prep with the night running for what I had hoped would be my first go at a 100 mile race this fall, the Superior 100. The problem ended up being that life and laziness got the better of me and I logged just 200 miles in the 1st quarter of this year, so basically 15 miles per week, with a long run of just 20 miles. Not a great 50 mile training program. Ugh. Everything with a 7am or 8am race just seems so straightforward, but the midnight start was entirely strange to think about. When to make the 2 hour trek to the race? What to eat before and when to eat? What should my sleeping plan be on Friday/Saturday? So, with a mix of planning and a bit of @igbomb-I-probably-didn't-need-to-arrive-this-damn-early in me (
), I got to the race start/finish at around 6:45pm and got a parking spot out of the path where I figured a lot of the arriving racers would drive past. After checking out the 100 mile race for about 20 minutes, I headed back to my truck. Before departing, I had raised my backseats and thrown down a couple sleeping bags and brought along a couple blankets and a pillow. At about 7:15pm, I checked into the backseat hotel and read until around 8pm. At 8pm, I closed my eyes and figure I got about 30-45 minutes of sleep before waking up and needing to take a piss at 9:15pm. What I haven't yet mentioned that many of you dealt with at races this weekend was the weather. Temps were in the low 20's and expected to dip into the teens overnight. So not only did I have to piss, but my truck was getting a bit chilly so I fired it up and let it warm up for about 15 minutes before shutting it down and getting another 45-60 minutes of sleep. I got up about 10:45pm and started to get ready. Band aid the nips? Check. Body glide? Done. Added moleskin padding in a couple known trouble spots on my right foot as a preventative measure as well. I wasn't positive on attire for this cold weather, since the longest I'd ever run in temps of this range was 4-5 hours. So I crossed my fingers and threw on a long-sleeve tech T, Salomon running pullover, windboxers, calf panties, shorts, warm running pants (sorry, I can't yet do tights), hat, gloves, road ID (for this was to surely be my death), Petzl head torch, grabbed my AK Race Vest with two bottles and set off for the start. Oh, I did wear shoes too for anyone that was curious...Brooks Cascadia, which hadn't yet given me any issues in my races. After a briefing by the RD, we were off.
The Course - The nice part about this race and the loop course was the abundance of aid stations (for an ultra), which were spaced at a max of just 4 miles apart. This meant that I didn't need to stop and waste time at every aid station, but could hit them up at a rate of roughly every other one. The course was pretty runnable for an ultra. Some sections of technical running with rocks and roots, but nothing to complain about. That is, besides some mother ####### sand! Yes, like beach sand, and I about punched someone when I first got into a section of that energy sucking BS. But the course had lots of nice single track, some low maintenance trails, and even a bit on some gravel access/fire roads. The tough part with my lack of training was the course profile and most notably, four sizable climbs/descents on each loop of roughly 300-400 feet each. Nothing crazy, but large enough to make you take notice. My goal was to finish. Worst case was that I knew I could finish 2 loops and if I had to, bail and head home with my tail between my legs. I was mentally breaking up the race into the three loops. Loop 1 was all night running with tons of other runners, and my goal was to feel relatively good upon completion of the first 17 miles. Loop 2 was the sunrise loop, as I knew I'd be looking forward to that as a bit of a mental boost. It was also my reality check loop, as I assumed that I would have a pretty good idea at the 25-30 mile mark whether the full 50 was in the cards. And finally Loop 3 if I was so lucky to get there, where I'd get to actually see the entirety of what I'd been running for the previous 34 miles since it would be 17 miles in daylight.
Nutrition/Hydration - I'd had great success in my only other ultras (50K and 50M) fueling hourly with 200 calories of Tailwind, one Huma gel, and one S-Cap. Those were in hot/humid temps, so I wasn't quite sure how to adjust for a like race in cold weather. I ended fueling slightly less though more or less the same.
Loop 1 - I settled in, likely 50-60 deep, and hoped to find a comfortable pace and not do something stupid early on. The race starts with one of those four climbs in the first mile, so it didn't take long to warm the body up. My legs felt pretty lethargic for the first 5-6 miles which resulted in some negative thoughts running creeping in much too early on, but I found a rhythm shortly thereafter and the negative thoughts were pushed aside. I seemed to leapfrog back and forth with a few different runners, passing them only to be passed later on as we must've been hitting up different aid stations for differing durations. I found my heart rate running a bit higher than I had hoped, with it consistently in the upper 150's to mid-160's on average and spiking into the 170's. Not good. But my gear seemed appropriate for the weather, my legs were feeling good, and my mind was right, so I kept the pace. At the aid station just 10 miles in, I ran into a former college teammate whom I hadn't seen for a solid 20 years. He was volunteering, so I chatted with him for about five minutes before heading back out. I first noticed the temp bite a bit when dipping down into a couple of the valleys...definitive 5+ degree drops that you could just feel. And that's when I noticed my bottles slushing up. At first it was just tiny particles that I barely noticed at around 2am. But then it hit, at about 2:30am I was drinking a full on 7-Eleven slushie. And it was giving me brain freeze. Son of a #####. The temperature was in the teens and the fuel that I absolutely had to consume was making me miserable. My brain sped forward to future races in like conditions and had me insulating the bottle holders of my race vest. Patentable? Nah, not enough of market full of idiots running 50-100 miles in sub-20 degree weather. What's someone think about when running for 6, 12, 24 hours? Stupid #### like that. I shuffled on, finishing Loop 1 in 3:28, which was without a doubt unsustainable.
Loop 2 - Since there was no way I was pulling off a 10 hour 24 minute finishing time, I told myself to slow down on Loop 2. And that I did. But the slushies were driving me mad. Add a bit of coffee to my bottles? Not quite there, as I wasn't yet dire enough. Would the friction of shaking the bottles continually keep them just a bit warmer and minimize the freeze? Doubt it, as I've had handhelds freeze up on winter runs as well. Damnitall. Then by chance I overheard "hot water" when I was at one of the aid stations. "Do you have hot water?" I asked. "We do, would you like some?" Oh sweet mother Mary. Yes! The thought never really crossed my mind that they'd have hot water available.
So from there on out, half of my bottle was filled with hot water and not only were my slushies in the rearview mirror, I actually had a reasonably warm liquid to keep my spirits high. From early on in Loop 2, other runners were sparse and I was mostly on my own. I'd pass a 100 miler runner here and there and even a 50 on occasion, but never really settled into a pace similar to other 50 mile runners. About midway through Loop 2, I noticed my quads twinging on one of the bigger climbs. A definite sign that my muscles were fatiguing a bit, as I've never had my quads do anything like that on a climb before. Finishing doubts crept in, but I just keep moving. And finally the darkness started to fade a bit, with a beautiful sunrise occurring with about 45 minutes to go on Loop 2. I finished Loop 2 at ~7:14 (3:46 2nd loop).
Loop 3 - I decided to get right at the Start/Finish before heading out on Loop 3, so I spent about 8 minutes restocking with Tailwind and Huma from my drop bag, ditching my head torch, hydrating, and grabbing a PB&J and potato with salt as a bit of real food before getting back out there at ~7:22am. By this point I was starting to have some knee pains, which were undoubtedly the same as I experienced in my only other 50 mile race and due to IT band tightness. I stopped and stretched a bit, but I knew this was something I just had to deal with for the final 17 miles. And that I did. One hill at a time. One aid station at a time. Just keep moving. My daylight loop turned in some beautiful scenery. Funny how you can run for 6+ hours before realizing how gorgeous the views were if there was just a bit of light. I took it all in, snapping a few photos along the way. My quads were definitely fatigued, and I tried to brake as little as possible on the few sections of technical downhill that remained. "Just don't blow an ankle" is what I kept thinking. And surprisingly, I didn't. But those knees were a barking, and I resided myself on a few runnable sections to some mental tactics...run for a minute, walk for 15 seconds...run to that bridge...run to the next aid station which should be just another mile away. And that got me through. To the end, in something like 11:05 (final lap of 3:51, which included the 8 minutes of changeover time after Loop 2). I chowed down some scrambled eggs and bacon, visited with a couple running friends that ran the 17 miler, and then headed home.
Unofficially - Per my Fenix 2: 50.98 miles, with 8100 feet of elevation gain and loss in 11:05:43, a PR in my 2nd race at this distance by 53 minutes (though the Superior 50 is a mile longer and infinitely more technical with little to no truly runnable sections). There is no cell service in the area of the race, so the last I saw before leaving the Finish area was that the results posted at the Finish onsite were through the 24th place finisher in something like 10:56. So I assume I finished somewhere in the 30's out of ~180, though I'd anticipate official results being posted within a day or two.
What Went Well - Sleeping for 1-2 hours Friday night was a great idea as while my eyes got a bit buggy at times, I never felt tired, and made the 2 hour drive home on Saturday feeling just fine. Hydration. Nutrition. My feet held up well. My attire was perfect for the conditions. The first four out of eight hours I spent yesterday while painting ceilings/walls in our house as a bit of "active recovery" definitely made my legs feel better.
What Didn't Go Well - My IT bands/knees. Definitely need to figure that out...hopefully remedied by increased mileage in training, hill workouts including pounding downhills, squats/lunges, stretching, and foam rolling. I thought my feet held up well for this specific race, though they were pretty sore so I'm not sure if I need to change something up for a 100 mile race on much more rocky/rooty terrain. The latter four of eight hours I spent yesterday while painting ceilings/walls in our house as a bit of "active stupidity" definitely made my legs and feet feel worse. My heartrate monitor started crapping out somewhere in Loop 2, which has never happened to me before. Frustrating to say the least, as I was hoping to use that data to gauge effort for the Superior 100 in September. I had to replace the battery in the strap for the first time a couple weeks ago, so I wonder if that had anything to do with it?
Would Love Insight on the Following:
Disclaimer - Apologies for the long-winded report, though I wish I had done this two years ago at my first 50 miler as there are some key components that I wish I remembered and could build off of, but unfortunately can't recall certain specifics.
2016 Zumbro 50 Mile Endurance Run
Race Info - This is a 17 mile loop course event with race options of 17 mile, 50 mile (3 loops), or 100 mile (6 loops). The race is held in the bluffs of the Zumbro River Bottoms Management Area in SE Minnesota. The 50 mile course has total elevation gain of 9,294ft and loss of the same. The field limit was 200 racers for the 50 mile, and I believe something like ~180-190 signed up. The most notable nugget relating to this race is that it's a midnight start, so off we go...
Pre-Race - I signed up for this race a few months back with the thought that it would get my ### back out training, and be great prep with the night running for what I had hoped would be my first go at a 100 mile race this fall, the Superior 100. The problem ended up being that life and laziness got the better of me and I logged just 200 miles in the 1st quarter of this year, so basically 15 miles per week, with a long run of just 20 miles. Not a great 50 mile training program. Ugh. Everything with a 7am or 8am race just seems so straightforward, but the midnight start was entirely strange to think about. When to make the 2 hour trek to the race? What to eat before and when to eat? What should my sleeping plan be on Friday/Saturday? So, with a mix of planning and a bit of @igbomb-I-probably-didn't-need-to-arrive-this-damn-early in me (
), I got to the race start/finish at around 6:45pm and got a parking spot out of the path where I figured a lot of the arriving racers would drive past. After checking out the 100 mile race for about 20 minutes, I headed back to my truck. Before departing, I had raised my backseats and thrown down a couple sleeping bags and brought along a couple blankets and a pillow. At about 7:15pm, I checked into the backseat hotel and read until around 8pm. At 8pm, I closed my eyes and figure I got about 30-45 minutes of sleep before waking up and needing to take a piss at 9:15pm. What I haven't yet mentioned that many of you dealt with at races this weekend was the weather. Temps were in the low 20's and expected to dip into the teens overnight. So not only did I have to piss, but my truck was getting a bit chilly so I fired it up and let it warm up for about 15 minutes before shutting it down and getting another 45-60 minutes of sleep. I got up about 10:45pm and started to get ready. Band aid the nips? Check. Body glide? Done. Added moleskin padding in a couple known trouble spots on my right foot as a preventative measure as well. I wasn't positive on attire for this cold weather, since the longest I'd ever run in temps of this range was 4-5 hours. So I crossed my fingers and threw on a long-sleeve tech T, Salomon running pullover, windboxers, calf panties, shorts, warm running pants (sorry, I can't yet do tights), hat, gloves, road ID (for this was to surely be my death), Petzl head torch, grabbed my AK Race Vest with two bottles and set off for the start. Oh, I did wear shoes too for anyone that was curious...Brooks Cascadia, which hadn't yet given me any issues in my races. After a briefing by the RD, we were off.The Course - The nice part about this race and the loop course was the abundance of aid stations (for an ultra), which were spaced at a max of just 4 miles apart. This meant that I didn't need to stop and waste time at every aid station, but could hit them up at a rate of roughly every other one. The course was pretty runnable for an ultra. Some sections of technical running with rocks and roots, but nothing to complain about. That is, besides some mother ####### sand! Yes, like beach sand, and I about punched someone when I first got into a section of that energy sucking BS. But the course had lots of nice single track, some low maintenance trails, and even a bit on some gravel access/fire roads. The tough part with my lack of training was the course profile and most notably, four sizable climbs/descents on each loop of roughly 300-400 feet each. Nothing crazy, but large enough to make you take notice. My goal was to finish. Worst case was that I knew I could finish 2 loops and if I had to, bail and head home with my tail between my legs. I was mentally breaking up the race into the three loops. Loop 1 was all night running with tons of other runners, and my goal was to feel relatively good upon completion of the first 17 miles. Loop 2 was the sunrise loop, as I knew I'd be looking forward to that as a bit of a mental boost. It was also my reality check loop, as I assumed that I would have a pretty good idea at the 25-30 mile mark whether the full 50 was in the cards. And finally Loop 3 if I was so lucky to get there, where I'd get to actually see the entirety of what I'd been running for the previous 34 miles since it would be 17 miles in daylight.
Nutrition/Hydration - I'd had great success in my only other ultras (50K and 50M) fueling hourly with 200 calories of Tailwind, one Huma gel, and one S-Cap. Those were in hot/humid temps, so I wasn't quite sure how to adjust for a like race in cold weather. I ended fueling slightly less though more or less the same.
Loop 1 - I settled in, likely 50-60 deep, and hoped to find a comfortable pace and not do something stupid early on. The race starts with one of those four climbs in the first mile, so it didn't take long to warm the body up. My legs felt pretty lethargic for the first 5-6 miles which resulted in some negative thoughts running creeping in much too early on, but I found a rhythm shortly thereafter and the negative thoughts were pushed aside. I seemed to leapfrog back and forth with a few different runners, passing them only to be passed later on as we must've been hitting up different aid stations for differing durations. I found my heart rate running a bit higher than I had hoped, with it consistently in the upper 150's to mid-160's on average and spiking into the 170's. Not good. But my gear seemed appropriate for the weather, my legs were feeling good, and my mind was right, so I kept the pace. At the aid station just 10 miles in, I ran into a former college teammate whom I hadn't seen for a solid 20 years. He was volunteering, so I chatted with him for about five minutes before heading back out. I first noticed the temp bite a bit when dipping down into a couple of the valleys...definitive 5+ degree drops that you could just feel. And that's when I noticed my bottles slushing up. At first it was just tiny particles that I barely noticed at around 2am. But then it hit, at about 2:30am I was drinking a full on 7-Eleven slushie. And it was giving me brain freeze. Son of a #####. The temperature was in the teens and the fuel that I absolutely had to consume was making me miserable. My brain sped forward to future races in like conditions and had me insulating the bottle holders of my race vest. Patentable? Nah, not enough of market full of idiots running 50-100 miles in sub-20 degree weather. What's someone think about when running for 6, 12, 24 hours? Stupid #### like that. I shuffled on, finishing Loop 1 in 3:28, which was without a doubt unsustainable.
Loop 2 - Since there was no way I was pulling off a 10 hour 24 minute finishing time, I told myself to slow down on Loop 2. And that I did. But the slushies were driving me mad. Add a bit of coffee to my bottles? Not quite there, as I wasn't yet dire enough. Would the friction of shaking the bottles continually keep them just a bit warmer and minimize the freeze? Doubt it, as I've had handhelds freeze up on winter runs as well. Damnitall. Then by chance I overheard "hot water" when I was at one of the aid stations. "Do you have hot water?" I asked. "We do, would you like some?" Oh sweet mother Mary. Yes! The thought never really crossed my mind that they'd have hot water available.
So from there on out, half of my bottle was filled with hot water and not only were my slushies in the rearview mirror, I actually had a reasonably warm liquid to keep my spirits high. From early on in Loop 2, other runners were sparse and I was mostly on my own. I'd pass a 100 miler runner here and there and even a 50 on occasion, but never really settled into a pace similar to other 50 mile runners. About midway through Loop 2, I noticed my quads twinging on one of the bigger climbs. A definite sign that my muscles were fatiguing a bit, as I've never had my quads do anything like that on a climb before. Finishing doubts crept in, but I just keep moving. And finally the darkness started to fade a bit, with a beautiful sunrise occurring with about 45 minutes to go on Loop 2. I finished Loop 2 at ~7:14 (3:46 2nd loop).Loop 3 - I decided to get right at the Start/Finish before heading out on Loop 3, so I spent about 8 minutes restocking with Tailwind and Huma from my drop bag, ditching my head torch, hydrating, and grabbing a PB&J and potato with salt as a bit of real food before getting back out there at ~7:22am. By this point I was starting to have some knee pains, which were undoubtedly the same as I experienced in my only other 50 mile race and due to IT band tightness. I stopped and stretched a bit, but I knew this was something I just had to deal with for the final 17 miles. And that I did. One hill at a time. One aid station at a time. Just keep moving. My daylight loop turned in some beautiful scenery. Funny how you can run for 6+ hours before realizing how gorgeous the views were if there was just a bit of light. I took it all in, snapping a few photos along the way. My quads were definitely fatigued, and I tried to brake as little as possible on the few sections of technical downhill that remained. "Just don't blow an ankle" is what I kept thinking. And surprisingly, I didn't. But those knees were a barking, and I resided myself on a few runnable sections to some mental tactics...run for a minute, walk for 15 seconds...run to that bridge...run to the next aid station which should be just another mile away. And that got me through. To the end, in something like 11:05 (final lap of 3:51, which included the 8 minutes of changeover time after Loop 2). I chowed down some scrambled eggs and bacon, visited with a couple running friends that ran the 17 miler, and then headed home.
Unofficially - Per my Fenix 2: 50.98 miles, with 8100 feet of elevation gain and loss in 11:05:43, a PR in my 2nd race at this distance by 53 minutes (though the Superior 50 is a mile longer and infinitely more technical with little to no truly runnable sections). There is no cell service in the area of the race, so the last I saw before leaving the Finish area was that the results posted at the Finish onsite were through the 24th place finisher in something like 10:56. So I assume I finished somewhere in the 30's out of ~180, though I'd anticipate official results being posted within a day or two.
What Went Well - Sleeping for 1-2 hours Friday night was a great idea as while my eyes got a bit buggy at times, I never felt tired, and made the 2 hour drive home on Saturday feeling just fine. Hydration. Nutrition. My feet held up well. My attire was perfect for the conditions. The first four out of eight hours I spent yesterday while painting ceilings/walls in our house as a bit of "active recovery" definitely made my legs feel better.
What Didn't Go Well - My IT bands/knees. Definitely need to figure that out...hopefully remedied by increased mileage in training, hill workouts including pounding downhills, squats/lunges, stretching, and foam rolling. I thought my feet held up well for this specific race, though they were pretty sore so I'm not sure if I need to change something up for a 100 mile race on much more rocky/rooty terrain. The latter four of eight hours I spent yesterday while painting ceilings/walls in our house as a bit of "active stupidity" definitely made my legs and feet feel worse. My heartrate monitor started crapping out somewhere in Loop 2, which has never happened to me before. Frustrating to say the least, as I was hoping to use that data to gauge effort for the Superior 100 in September. I had to replace the battery in the strap for the first time a couple weeks ago, so I wonder if that had anything to do with it?
Would Love Insight on the Following:
- IT Bands
- HR Strap Failure
- Shoe selection for 100 mile race
Disclaimer - Apologies for the long-winded report, though I wish I had done this two years ago at my first 50 miler as there are some key components that I wish I remembered and could build off of, but unfortunately can't recall certain specifics.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Nonsense! Around these parts you should only apologize for a short report! Congrats on a great accomplishment!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
knocked out 10 miles on friday in a wind/sleet storm
made the rookie mistake of not realizing it was windy until i turned back towards home. appx. 4 miles in a headwind with icy sleet bouncing off my face. good times.
some of my longer eyebrow hairs (i'm 40!) got so heavy with ice and snow that they were blocking my vision
made the rookie mistake of not realizing it was windy until i turned back towards home. appx. 4 miles in a headwind with icy sleet bouncing off my face. good times.
some of my longer eyebrow hairs (i'm 40!) got so heavy with ice and snow that they were blocking my vision
pbm107
Footballguy
Thanks I agree, we both have the potential to run much faster, especially in the marathon.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Bridge Street Half Marathon
While I did taper last week, I never really specifically trained for this race as it is a B race for next month's HIM. Various runs would help with a HM, but comprehensively the focus was not on a HM. My long endurance was decently trained from the Dec 31st 50k and the Black Mountain marathon I ended up not doing (stupid sickness) so I had moderate expectations heading into this race. Funny enough, I actually woke up with 1:31 in my mind, maybe from a dream or maybe just my expectation. So while I'm not overly thrilled with it, I'm quite content with the time - for now.
Pre-race: I showed up way too early for registration and ended up waiting for almost 90 minutes. I walked around a bit, went to the bathroom twice, and stretched. Didn't warmup at all other than that. Ate an avocado before leaving home, a banana in the car and a protein bar 45 minutes before the start, nutrition wise I was just fine. Lining up - the fastest pace group was 1:30 and I fell in right behind that crew. My initial thought was to stick with them and just ride their group to the end. Probably should have stuck with that plan.
1 6:31 /mi 6:29 /mi 1 ft
2 6:37 /mi 6:30 /mi 18 ft
- Around the half mile mark I decided to run my own pace, which was ahead of the 1:30 group. I opted to use HR instead of following their pace. I didn't feel like I was pushing too hard and my watch never showed over 169 bpm (actually for 8 minutes it showed 80-90bpm, obviously an error) but when I looked at the clock at 2 miles and saw 13:14 (seems to have been a little bit off), I knew I was going too fast. I decided to keep my HR around the high 160s from there on out.
3 6:49 /mi 6:40 /mi 27 ft
4 6:42 /mi 6:39 /mi -4 ft
5 6:59 /mi 6:49 /mi 28 ft
- Kept the HR just below 170 for the most part, apparently went a little higher at times but we can't run staring at the watch. Feeling pretty strong so far, and sub 34 for 5 miles meant I was on track. I took my first gel just before mile 5, everything is going well so far, I don't know quite where the pace group is but I'm ahead of it.
6 6:53 /mi 6:57 /mi -19 ft
7 6:55 /mi 6:57 /mi -7 ft
- The biggest incline of the race was at 5.3, but that was hardly anything to speak of. It's mostly downhill from there, I'm still feeling pretty good. But, at the halfway point (quarter marathon?) THERE's the pace group, passing me right by. I speed up a little bit and fall in, but then I fall off. I'd keep an eye on them (they were wearing bright yellow shirts) and try to catch up after mile 11. They handed out honey stinger gels at mile 7.5, the raspberry is actually quite good.
8 7:06 /mi 7:06 /mi -4 ft
9 7:12 /mi 7:11 /mi 1 ft
10 7:09 /mi 7:03 /mi 11 ft
- I have my watch showing my pace every 3 minutes and after mile 7 I knew I was falling too far off, as almost every lap was over 7. Still, I hit mile 10 at 69 minutes, so I thought to myself "just hang-on, surely I can do a 5k sub 21!"
Mile 8.5-9.4 was the coolest part of the race but it kind of messed with our heads a bit. The Hudson Alpha Double Helix path, you go left first, then you sway back and forth, following one side of the helix (the paved, the other helix is gravel) 15 times before exiting. It's a cool path but it did slow us down a bit. Two people ahead of me actually stopped, I don't know if they rolled an ankle or just got tired. Exit the helix and hit the home stretch! At mile 10 I passed a couple guys, which is motivating. ETA: looking back at it, I'm not sure why I dropped 10 seconds at mile 8, I'll need to work on that.
11 7:13 /mi 7:19 /mi -21 ft
12 7:08 /mi 7:12 /mi -17 ft
13 6:56 /mi 6:53 /mi 6 ft
0.1 7:12 /mi 7:24 /mi -8 ft
- well, apparently I can't go sub 21 for a 5k after 10 miles. (actually the wall isn't quite accurate, I don't feel like I hit a wall but the legs were heavier). At mile 11 we get to see the runners at mile 7.5, and it's always good to see that people are behind you while you're chasing the people ahead of you. I lost sight of the 1:30 group, couldn't tell where the guys behind me were and was basically all alone for the rest of the race. I tried to kick it in at mile 12 but my legs just didn't have speed left in them. HR went up to 175, and my pace fell by 10 seconds but that wasn't enough. The slower last portion was due to the course jumping a curb then a curvy finish into the outdoor mall (Bridge Street Mall, hence the name).
Like I mentioned, the time was exactly what I thought it would be, which I'll gladly take for now. But I will break 90 next time!
While I did taper last week, I never really specifically trained for this race as it is a B race for next month's HIM. Various runs would help with a HM, but comprehensively the focus was not on a HM. My long endurance was decently trained from the Dec 31st 50k and the Black Mountain marathon I ended up not doing (stupid sickness) so I had moderate expectations heading into this race. Funny enough, I actually woke up with 1:31 in my mind, maybe from a dream or maybe just my expectation. So while I'm not overly thrilled with it, I'm quite content with the time - for now.
Pre-race: I showed up way too early for registration and ended up waiting for almost 90 minutes. I walked around a bit, went to the bathroom twice, and stretched. Didn't warmup at all other than that. Ate an avocado before leaving home, a banana in the car and a protein bar 45 minutes before the start, nutrition wise I was just fine. Lining up - the fastest pace group was 1:30 and I fell in right behind that crew. My initial thought was to stick with them and just ride their group to the end. Probably should have stuck with that plan.
1 6:31 /mi 6:29 /mi 1 ft
2 6:37 /mi 6:30 /mi 18 ft
- Around the half mile mark I decided to run my own pace, which was ahead of the 1:30 group. I opted to use HR instead of following their pace. I didn't feel like I was pushing too hard and my watch never showed over 169 bpm (actually for 8 minutes it showed 80-90bpm, obviously an error) but when I looked at the clock at 2 miles and saw 13:14 (seems to have been a little bit off), I knew I was going too fast. I decided to keep my HR around the high 160s from there on out.
3 6:49 /mi 6:40 /mi 27 ft
4 6:42 /mi 6:39 /mi -4 ft
5 6:59 /mi 6:49 /mi 28 ft
- Kept the HR just below 170 for the most part, apparently went a little higher at times but we can't run staring at the watch. Feeling pretty strong so far, and sub 34 for 5 miles meant I was on track. I took my first gel just before mile 5, everything is going well so far, I don't know quite where the pace group is but I'm ahead of it.
6 6:53 /mi 6:57 /mi -19 ft
7 6:55 /mi 6:57 /mi -7 ft
- The biggest incline of the race was at 5.3, but that was hardly anything to speak of. It's mostly downhill from there, I'm still feeling pretty good. But, at the halfway point (quarter marathon?) THERE's the pace group, passing me right by. I speed up a little bit and fall in, but then I fall off. I'd keep an eye on them (they were wearing bright yellow shirts) and try to catch up after mile 11. They handed out honey stinger gels at mile 7.5, the raspberry is actually quite good.
8 7:06 /mi 7:06 /mi -4 ft
9 7:12 /mi 7:11 /mi 1 ft
10 7:09 /mi 7:03 /mi 11 ft
- I have my watch showing my pace every 3 minutes and after mile 7 I knew I was falling too far off, as almost every lap was over 7. Still, I hit mile 10 at 69 minutes, so I thought to myself "just hang-on, surely I can do a 5k sub 21!"
Mile 8.5-9.4 was the coolest part of the race but it kind of messed with our heads a bit. The Hudson Alpha Double Helix path, you go left first, then you sway back and forth, following one side of the helix (the paved, the other helix is gravel) 15 times before exiting. It's a cool path but it did slow us down a bit. Two people ahead of me actually stopped, I don't know if they rolled an ankle or just got tired. Exit the helix and hit the home stretch! At mile 10 I passed a couple guys, which is motivating. ETA: looking back at it, I'm not sure why I dropped 10 seconds at mile 8, I'll need to work on that.11 7:13 /mi 7:19 /mi -21 ft
12 7:08 /mi 7:12 /mi -17 ft
13 6:56 /mi 6:53 /mi 6 ft
0.1 7:12 /mi 7:24 /mi -8 ft
- well, apparently I can't go sub 21 for a 5k after 10 miles.
(actually the wall isn't quite accurate, I don't feel like I hit a wall but the legs were heavier). At mile 11 we get to see the runners at mile 7.5, and it's always good to see that people are behind you while you're chasing the people ahead of you. I lost sight of the 1:30 group, couldn't tell where the guys behind me were and was basically all alone for the rest of the race. I tried to kick it in at mile 12 but my legs just didn't have speed left in them. HR went up to 175, and my pace fell by 10 seconds but that wasn't enough. The slower last portion was due to the course jumping a curb then a curvy finish into the outdoor mall (Bridge Street Mall, hence the name). Like I mentioned, the time was exactly what I thought it would be, which I'll gladly take for now. But I will break 90 next time!
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Hang 10
Footballguy
Nice work, Fubar.Bridge Street Half Marathon
While I did taper last week, I never really specifically trained for this race as it is a B race for next month's HIM. Various runs would help with a HM, but comprehensively the focus was not on a HM. My long endurance was decently trained from the Dec 31st 50k and the Black Mountain marathon I ended up not doing (stupid sickness) so I had moderate expectations heading into this race. Funny enough, I actually woke up with 1:31 in my mind, maybe from a dream or maybe just my expectation. So while I'm not overly thrilled with it, I'm quite content with the time - for now.
Pre-race: I showed up way too early for registration and ended up waiting for almost 90 minutes. I walked around a bit, went to the bathroom twice, and stretched. Didn't warmup at all other than that. Ate an avocado before leaving home, a banana in the car and a protein bar 45 minutes before the start, nutrition wise I was just fine. Lining up - the fastest pace group was 1:30 and I fell in right behind that crew. My initial thought was to stick with them and just ride their group to the end. Probably should have stuck with that plan.
1 6:31 /mi 6:29 /mi 1 ft
2 6:37 /mi 6:30 /mi 18 ft
- Around the half mile mark I decided to run my own pace, which was ahead of the 1:30 group. I opted to use HR instead of following their pace. I didn't feel like I was pushing too hard and my watch never showed over 169 bpm (actually for 8 minutes it showed 80-90bpm, obviously an error) but when I looked at the clock at 2 miles and saw 13:14 (seems to have been a little bit off), I knew I was going too fast. I decided to keep my HR around the high 160s from there on out.
3 6:49 /mi 6:40 /mi 27 ft
4 6:42 /mi 6:39 /mi -4 ft
5 6:59 /mi 6:49 /mi 28 ft
- Kept the HR just below 170 for the most part, apparently went a little higher at times but we can't run staring at the watch. Feeling pretty strong so far, and sub 34 for 5 miles meant I was on track. I took my first gel just before mile 5, everything is going well so far, I don't know quite where the pace group is but I'm ahead of it.
6 6:53 /mi 6:57 /mi -19 ft
7 6:55 /mi 6:57 /mi -7 ft
- The biggest incline of the race was at 5.3, but that was hardly anything to speak of. It's mostly downhill from there, I'm still feeling pretty good. But, at the halfway point (quarter marathon?) THERE's the pace group, passing me right by. I speed up a little bit and fall in, but then I fall off. I'd keep an eye on them (they were wearing bright yellow shirts) and try to catch up after mile 11. They handed out honey stinger gels at mile 7.5, the raspberry is actually quite good.
8 7:06 /mi 7:06 /mi -4 ft
9 7:12 /mi 7:11 /mi 1 ft
10 7:09 /mi 7:03 /mi 11 ft
- I have my watch showing my pace every 3 minutes and after mile 7 I knew I was falling too far off, as almost every lap was over 7. Still, I hit mile 10 at 69 minutes, so I thought to myself "just hang-on, surely I can do a 5k sub 21!"
11 7:13 /mi 7:19 /mi -21 ft
12 7:08 /mi 7:12 /mi -17 ft
13 6:56 /mi 6:53 /mi 6 ft
0.1 7:12 /mi 7:24 /mi -8 ft
- well, apparently I can't go sub 21 for a 5k after 10 miles.
Like I mentioned, the time was exactly what I thought it would be, which I'll gladly take for now. But I will break 90 next time!
I think you probably could have gone sub 90 yesterday if you'd have started stayed with the 1:30 group.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Great report pbm, and this is the one that jumped out for me personally.
I ran my race Saturday not looking at HR at all for the same reason. I believe the mistakes I've made in the past are because of paying too much attention to HR. When I would see a high HR during stretches, I would mentally tell myself:
"Be careful here. Your heart rate is creeping up. Don't blow up so early. Slow down"
or something to that effect. Or at first sign of pain, I would look at my HR, see 180 and psych myself out by thinking: "I'm toast."
With Saturday's race, I had my pace showing the whole time, and my thought going into the race was I realistically wanted to hit 1:48, so I didn't want to see any worse than 8:14 on average. So that's what happened. On the uphills I let the pace read somewhere in the 8:20's and 8:30's for short stretches, but then hauled #### on the downhills to make up the time. Not once during my race on Saturday did I feel true pain like I've always felt, which means I probably still left time out on the course.
Not sure if this was truly a breakthrough moment for me, but I have to believe it is. The three best races I have ever had have been when I have ignored the HR data during the race.
Hang 10
Footballguy
I was thinking the same thing for my 10K saturday. I thought about sneaking a peak a couple times but then I thought, "what is it going to tell you that you don't already know?". If see a really high number it's going to freak me out and if I see a lower number, it won't matter because I can't really run much faster. So really, what's the point?
I love the HR monitor for training but I think you have to race by feel.
Interesting perspective about not looking at HR during a race. There's value in HR during a race for sure, but I didn't really think about it being a detriment in taking you out of the moment or ultimately preventing yourself from pushing to the point that your body naturally allows.
pbm107
Footballguy
I wouldn't worry too much about leaving time out there, I know my best performances were due to improved fitness and better pacing rather than some new found toughness. Typically in my best races I suffered much less than my poor ones.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Guess it just depends what your mind does with the data. Tri-man swears by racing by HR. Me on the other hand, I got into using a monitor late, so I've got the racing feel mostly dialed in.
I've also averaged 195BPM for a 10K before (192 this past Saturday). Do you think it would have helped me run faster to see that I was averaging a 198 at mile 4? Should I have slowed down? I would have thought I needed to but I ended up averaging a 198 at mile 5 and then 200 at mile 6! Honestly, who would want to know that at the time? I already knew it hurt like a #####.
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Official results were posted: 11:05:40, 27th out of 128 finishers (185 registrants, though not sure how many started the race...it was definitely a race where the slower you are, the more likely you were to drop IMO with the cold temps)
I mentioned that I rarely saw any 50 miler runners from the 2nd loop on. There was an 11:02 finisher (I tailed him for a bit on the last loop, but couldn't hang), but ahead of him was 10:56 and faster. The closest behind me was an 11:18. I knew I was in no mans land.
I mentioned that I rarely saw any 50 miler runners from the 2nd loop on. There was an 11:02 finisher (I tailed him for a bit on the last loop, but couldn't hang), but ahead of him was 10:56 and faster. The closest behind me was an 11:18. I knew I was in no mans land.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
I could be woefully mistaken but IMO there's a huge difference between 10k and HM. In a 10k I completely agree - forget HR and just go for it. But in races over an hour, I'm more conservative (or try to be anyway) and want to reign it in during the first 5 miles. It didn't really work out that way yesterday, I still had dead legs after mile 8, but I think I would have slowed down more had I not paid attention to HR during the first 40ish minutes. You'll notice in the report, after mile 5 my only mention of HR was what it got to, not that I was checking it. IMO that's another value of the HR monitor - looking back at the race and seeing where you were.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
I think you're right. Partly for pace, partly for "peer" pressure, partly to block the wind.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Results are posted, I won the 39 year old bracket! 
but dammit
they rounded up to 7:00 pace. It was really 6.9956 min/mile.
4/56 age group, 21/1124 overall.
but dammit
they rounded up to 7:00 pace. It was really 6.9956 min/mile. 4/56 age group, 21/1124 overall.
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SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Nicely done @SayWhat?, on the race and the report!. You spend 10-30+ hours out there for a race, you get to be wordy! And I totally agree on writing these things to have them to refer back to in the future, as I've learned something at just about every ultra I've run.
I've had IT issues as well, and have been trying to prevent a re-occurrence by being better with strength work for the hips and glutes (pretty much lunges). I also do an active stretch/warmup routine focused on the hips that I think helps - leg swings side to side, front to back, and then drop into a lunge and rotate the hips around like an 80's aerobic instructor. We'll find out in the next few months if all of that has helped, as the issue pretty much only pops up during long races.
Can't help you with the HR strap issue, sorry. In fact after a week or two of my new Fenix 3 HR wrist sensor working pretty well, the past two days it's been totally wonky, showing HR at 30-60 beats below what I know it actually is. I know a few people here have similar wrist sensors, any thoughts from you guys? Would shaving my wrist help?
As for shoes, that's so personal it's hard to say. I wore Cascadia 8s the first year or two of trail running and liked them, but have been pretty much exclusively Hokas ever since - the Challenger primarily now, and the Stinson Trail for longer stuff (more cushion). I'd like to try Altras now that they have some more cushioned shoes, but coming off an achilles issue I'm not going to try and transition to a zero drop shoe until I know that's long behind me.
pbm107
Footballguy
I have to wear mine fairly tight on my wrist to get it to work properly. I came across this thread the other day about HRM locking onto your cadence, I was skeptical of this when I first read it but a quick google search showed others think they have this problem. I don't understand how or why it would do this.
FUBAR
Footballguy
interesting. I know my wrist HRM is often off, either high or low not consistently either, for roughly the first 10 minutes of any run when it's chilly. It's usually right after warming up.
igbomb
Footballguy
Any thoughts in this group on weight training? I downloaded and tried out the Sworkit app last night. Cool concept but it was all body weight exercises. That's not a bad thing but while I was exercising I kept staring at my lonely bench and dumbbells sitting there unused.
I don't have a gym membership and have no interest in adding one. But I do have a basement with a weight bench and dumbbells. Any great resources out there for total body routines?
I don't have a gym membership and have no interest in adding one. But I do have a basement with a weight bench and dumbbells. Any great resources out there for total body routines?
FUBAR
Footballguy
strength / weight training should be part of any person's routine. I do mostly body weight exercises - dips, pullups, air squats, etc. but kettle bells and other weights have their place too.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Agreed. The above, plus push-ups, lunges, etc. gives a solid workout. I still do a fair amount with dumbbells, too.
--
As to HR, I do prefer it for longer races, as is well known. I could tell I was in a bit of no-man's-land during Saturday's 10K - HR guidance or no? But with the icy paths, it was something of a moot point. I didn't focus on HR much, though. Chief, I actually like the HR info for the reasons you don't: When it's low (based on training knowledge), I have confidence and incentive to push harder. When it's high, I don't think "I'm toast," but instead just ease the throttle a little to avoid an early burnout. I'll definitely be using HR at Boston. My pacing is so far ahead of anything I could have imagined, I feel I need the HR data as guidance over the first 15 miles (before the hill sequence). A high HR will keep me controlled through those miles, but - more likely - if I'm running a still-surprisingly fast pace, a moderate HR will tell me it is, in fact, sustainable. For me, the objective data trumps the subjective mind games.
eta: Helluva report, SayWhat. Very bad-###.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
oh yeah, pushups.
if you want an example of a decent workout - 1/4 mile easy, 25 air squats, 1/4 mile @ HM pace, 25 pushups, repeat 8x. The air squats before the faster interval makes that interval a little harder. You'll end up with 200 air squats, 200 pushups and 4 miles. I'll do this every so often, replace the air squats with core work, or just more pushups. You can also do this for time instead of distance.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I need to do this more.oh yeah, pushups.
if you want an example of a decent workout - 1/4 mile easy, 25 air squats, 1/4 mile @ HM pace, 25 pushups, repeat 8x. The air squats before the faster interval makes that interval a little harder. You'll end up with 200 air squats, 200 pushups and 4 miles. I'll do this every so often, replace the air squats with core work, or just more pushups. You can also do this for time instead of distance.
Well, let me rephrase. I need to start doing this.
El Floppo
Footballguy
tri-man 47 said:
I miss you and the rest of the 10k guys.
stopping in because of the NYTimes article on Julie Miller- the woman stripped of winning IM Canada for supposedly cheating (there and elsewhere). wonder if you guys know anything more about that story, which if true is pretty insane?
MAC_32
Footballguy
I've been doing this since February and based on my fitness then vs. now I'd say it's working. It was a little different routine in December and January, but I was taking too long to recover because I think I was over-working my shoulders and back so I tweaked things and this seems to work for me.igbomb said:
3 sets of rows (this is the only machine I use) - 15 reps superset with 3 sets of lunges - 25 reps (started w/2 sets)
3 sets of bicep curls - 15 reps superset with 3 more sets of lunges - again, 25 reps (started w/2 sets)
3 sets of reverse crunches - 20 reps (started at 10) superset with 3 sets of body weight squats - 25 reps (started at 15 reps)
Giant set of 25 push up's/25 body weight squats/15 dips until upper body failure. I started at 20 push up's/10 dips and am planning to push it to 30/20 tomorrow.
Done correctly you'll be done in under 30 minutes and spend the majority of the last few minutes cursing repeatedly since there's no rest time, but most importantly - hopefully you're not still beaten up the following day. Standard caveat, what works for me may not work for you but take enough of what we're all writing, tweak to make it fit what you want to do, then adjust as things are/aren't working.
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SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Those of you that were interested in Barkley be sure to listen to Ultrarunnerpodcast's latest with Gary Robbins.
@SayWhat?, be sure to listen to the last third or so, he talks about pacing people at their first 100M and what he has his athletes running their first 100s do in preparation. Great reminder on using all of your gear on your long runs to get everything dialed in for race day, and interesting take on forcing down calories in those runs to get used to it. That goes against the standard metabolic efficiency take, but it hits on what has been a struggle of mine as I always try to take in more calories on race day per hour that I've practiced in training. I think I may take his suggestion and try that in my final two long runs going into Canyons 100K.
On that note, I put together a summary of my recent challenges and training today, for anyone interested.
@SayWhat?, be sure to listen to the last third or so, he talks about pacing people at their first 100M and what he has his athletes running their first 100s do in preparation. Great reminder on using all of your gear on your long runs to get everything dialed in for race day, and interesting take on forcing down calories in those runs to get used to it. That goes against the standard metabolic efficiency take, but it hits on what has been a struggle of mine as I always try to take in more calories on race day per hour that I've practiced in training. I think I may take his suggestion and try that in my final two long runs going into Canyons 100K.
On that note, I put together a summary of my recent challenges and training today, for anyone interested.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
So this idiot biker has been stealing all my Strava CRs because he must have his watch on the run setting. What do I do? Buy a bike?
(Yes, I know on the list of the world's injustices, this ranks very close to the bottom.)
(Yes, I know on the list of the world's injustices, this ranks very close to the bottom.)
