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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (3 Viewers)

Couple of quick questions for the veterans on here:

1. How much recovery should I really give myself before getting back into serious training after the marathon? Ran Wednesday, and then ran again tonight. Planning on running Sunday, but not sure if its too much, too soon. Feel ok - but mentally I am really wanting to run. Which is rare for me coming out of a race. Usually I am wanting a break, but all of a sudden I have this hunger for more. Weird.

2. Thinking of a half marathon on Nov 12th. Not sure if that is too soon after a marathon, but it would be a month out. So I am thinking I should be good health wise. Thoughts?

 
Couple of quick questions for the veterans on here:

1. How much recovery should I really give myself before getting back into serious training after the marathon? Ran Wednesday, and then ran again tonight. Planning on running Sunday, but not sure if its too much, too soon. Feel ok - but mentally I am really wanting to run. Which is rare for me coming out of a race. Usually I am wanting a break, but all of a sudden I have this hunger for more. Weird.

2. Thinking of a half marathon on Nov 12th. Not sure if that is too soon after a marathon, but it would be a month out. So I am thinking I should be good health wise. Thoughts?
1 - general rule of thumb is a day off for every hour raced, however that's a very loose guideline. I'd take it very easy on Sunday. Don't go long or fast.  Next week you can add another run and a bit more mileage, but keep it easy. Keep that reverse taper going for the next couple weeks. 

2 - you should be fine to race on 11/12. Glad to see you motivated so soon!!

 
1 - general rule of thumb is a day off for every hour raced, however that's a very loose guideline. I'd take it very easy on Sunday. Don't go long or fast.  Next week you can add another run and a bit more mileage, but keep it easy. Keep that reverse taper going for the next couple weeks. 

2 - you should be fine to race on 11/12. Glad to see you motivated so soon!!
Agreed on both.

 
Great stuff all!  @ChiefD, @tri-man 47, everyone. 

Get some @MAC_32! :clap:

@SteelCurtain - How many runs over 16 did you do during the hanson plan?  I plan on at least one 18 and a 20.  

It's been an interesting week after returning from vacation.  First thing Tuesday (we had Monday off) my boss walks into my office and tells me that I'll be retiring in April.  I sort of expected this, but it's a couple months earlier than I thought we'd find out.  This will be "first retirement" as I will get another job, one that is stable and hopefully keeps us here in No-Al (but the pension will be sweet).  He came back in Thursday and suggested I apply to one of our branches where I'd do contact litigation.  Never done that before but it could be interesting.   I'm also considering other avenues including areas outside of law.  Bottom line, we will (probably) stay here another 20+ years, so the family is thrilled. 

 
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@MAC_32 is through 4.1 in 27:33, which is 2:56 pace.  If it was anyone else I'd be thinking slow down, but with him who knows what he is capable of.

 
for him, perhaps.  but most of us would dream of being at mile 20 before 2:25, that's a damn good pace. 

ETA: on pace for 3:08 :towelwave:   :clap:   

That site is pretty slick: http://www.mtectracking.com/Mtrack?raceid=95&pid=683
Based on the numbers you've been putting down in early training, you'll be clipping 20mi in similar time. :yes:  

The conditions he's running in are identical to what I ran in last year.  64 degrees and sunny doesn't sound so bad, until you try to race a fricken marathon in it.  Feel terrible for him. :sadbanana:  

 
FUBAR said:
Great stuff all!  @ChiefD, @tri-man 47, everyone. 

Get some @MAC_32! :clap:

@SteelCurtain - How many runs over 16 did you do during the hanson plan?  I plan on at least one 18 and a 20.  

It's been an interesting week after returning from vacation.  First thing Tuesday (we had Monday off) my boss walks into my office and tells me that I'll be retiring in April.  I sort of expected this, but it's a couple months earlier than I thought we'd find out.  This will be "first retirement" as I will get another job, one that is stable and hopefully keeps us here in No-Al (but the pension will be sweet).  He came back in Thursday and suggested I apply to one of our branches where I'd do contact litigation.  Never done that before but it could be interesting.   I'm also considering other avenues including areas outside of law.  Bottom line, we will (probably) stay here another 20+ years, so the family is thrilled. 
I did two 16 mile runs (30 seconds slower than marathon pace).  I added 2 warm up and 2 cool down miles so they both ended up an even 20.   If you are on strava, I just did my second one this morning.   Ignore the three miles where I picked it up at the end.  Just wanted to fry the legs on this run so I pushed it hard there.

 
Full write up later. I wanted to thank you all first though. I wouldn't have made it this far without a lot of people, but you guys especially. I can't thank this great group of guys enough.

Cliff notes - the back was the primary culprit, started at 15 then got real bad about 18.  It and the heat then led to about 15 muscle pulls. Frustrating part, cardio was fine. But most importantly, I'll be back.

Go kick some ###, fellas!

 
Columbus Marathon

Prep - the one thing I wasn't really mentally prepared for, no 3 hour pacer in sight. Everything else checked out. However, as I settled into the corral about 5 minutes before the gun I asked someone wearing an old Columbus marathon shirt about it and he said - 'no worries, they have clocks at each mile marker.' Well, alright then. I'll need to be more mentally engaged early on than I want, but at least I only have to remember a number for about 7 minutes at a time.

Miles 1-4 (6:24/6:32/6:37/6:43) I won't lie, as Thunderstruck pulsated through the speakers leading up to the start, chills. I'm really doing this. As you can see it took a few miles to settle into my pace. I forgot as I got to mile 1 that I probably started 20-30 seconds back so when I saw 6:50 I thought I was on schedule. I realized at mile 2 that I was too fast, so I gradually took the foot off the gas. Felt great though.

Miles 5-8 (6:44/6:36/6:46/6:40) Sometime during this stretch I decided to bank some time. There were enough clouds to block the sun as day broke and I was worried about the heat later, so despite consistently being 10-20 seconds ahead of schedule per mile as long as my effort wasn't changing stay with it because I'll probably need the extra time later. 

Miles 9-12 (6:44/6:35/6:48/6:53) I could see to the west that my time with the clouds was nearing an end. Everything was still intact and I was very comfortable, but in anticipation of the sun I took off my sleeveless tech anyway. Knowing my support crew was waiting in mile 12 I'd unload it with them. Upon seeing them I set my sights on the pregnant one holding up a 'Run like Penn State's kicker is about to hit you' sign...and my sweaty tech hit her right in the chest. Bullseye.

Miles 13-16 (6:44/6:49/7:05/7:09) The real race begins. Nothing noteworthy miles 13 and 14, but that back issue I mentioned last week began to rear its ugly head mile 15. Uh oh. It wasn't bad, but I wanted to be proactive before it got bad so I shortened the stride some to take pressure on it off. Knowing that mile 18 climb was ahead and I had some time banked I figured 4-5 miles in the 7-7:15 range would be fine if I could get this thing loosened up in time for the downhill section starting mile 20. 

Miles 17-19 (7:18/8:04/8:54) mile 17 was more of the same, but as was the case with most runners today mile 18 was a mother ####er. I walked the water stop, but ran the rest of it. The back was clearly becoming a big problem though. I made it a goal to not walk again until the next water stop, but the steepest incline in this section forced an amended plan. All sorts of pain in my back. I had to stop and walk. Once I got to the top of that section I got going again but the pain didn't get any better. I made it to the next water stop before walking again but as I got through it I was losing interest in starting to run again. My moment of weakness I sent a text to my wife 'Don't think I'm gonna make it. Back.' She immediately wrote back 'You will not let the wall beat you.' So I listened and started going again.

Miles 20-22 (8:38/8:13/8:16) Operation get your #### together. I continued to walk the water stops, but I was getting a little stronger in between. While it was going to take a strong effort to finish to make Boston it wasn't over yet. My cardio was very well intact and the 3:05 pacer didn't pass me until the beginning of mile 21 (I asked as he ran by if he was intentionally ahead of schedule due to the heat and he said yes), so if could loosen this problem up I can make a run at it. 

Mile 23 (9:52) Right groin pull, left groin pull, right groin pull. #### me. Who knows if it was more over compensation from the back or the heat, but regardless - Boston was over. The denial stage miles 20-22 quickly turned to acceptance. I texted my wife again - 'No Boston, but I will make it. Whatever it takes.'

Mile 24 (10:49) groin pull groin pull groin pull, I was no longer trying to make it to the next water stop...I was trying to make it to the next pull. It was usually righty, but lefty made a couple of appearances too. I was getting real worried about finishing because my calves were locking up too. Thankfully the worst of the pulls happened right in front of someone handing out water. The pulls didn't seem too bad once I guzzled that down. For a bit anyway.

Mile 25 ((10:21) I am lucky to make it a block before another pull, I'm just hoping it stays in my groin because I'm managing (sort of) it but I don't have any confidence in navigating any other muscle pulls. Then a real bad one stops me dead in my tracks. For a brief moment I think it's over but then I look to my right and see an arm extended out towards me. I took the arm and turned off my music. The woman said lets walk, there's medical just ahead. We got to them and she asked if I needed it. I said no I'm finishing this thing. So we started to jog and she said I will run with you. So off we went, her talking about anything but running to try to keep my mind off things, stopping occasionally whenever I had another pull. After about 5-7 minutes of this there was the first lull in the conversation, she then asked if I saw her boy Louie at mile 9 (hospital sponsored race, a kid was given each mile). To which I said, yeah, and funny you should mention him. A good friend of mine is his teacher. There was a pause followed by a very loud - 'REALLY? ME TOO!' I looked over at this woman for the first time since we started running and...it was her. I was running with my ####### friend for almost a mile and never realized it. This was the one time I stopped to walk not due to a muscle pull and I finally admitted 'Ok, maybe I'm not in a good place right now.' She correctly laughed her ### off and said get moving again, let's get this thing over.

Mile 26+ (9:37/8:45) More of the same only with plenty of jokes at my expense. At one point she asked who I thought she was and I said honestly, a Good Samaritan. I didn't know why you chose me of all the runners struggling with the heat, but I was happy you did. The muscles were still pulling, but not as badly...or maybe it just didn't impact me as much because I knew I was right there. We got back to the rest of my support team at the mile 26 mark and My Good Samaritan jumped the barricade to let me finish the race on my own.

Official time 3:25:40 

I went out a little too fast, but given the conditions if I was going to make it I think I needed to then see what happens. I don't know if the pace ever would have caught up to me, but when my back really started causing problems effort was a non-issue so I'm cautiously optimistic. Still, as I expected when I began this journey 22 weeks ago there would be lessons learned. I think I have a better sense now of what I need to do in training to better set me up for race day the next time around. It's time for a break though. It's been a hell of a year. 

 
Man, so much good in that report.

1. You kick ### in the beginning.

2. This exchange: "My moment of weakness I sent a text to my wife 'Don't think I'm gonna make it. Back.' She immediately wrote back 'You will not let the wall beat you.' So I listened and started going again."

3. This exchange: "I texted my wife again - 'No Boston, but I will make it. Whatever it takes.'"

4. Your good samaritan story. Unreal. A complete gift to you at a time you needed it. 

5. Your strength to gut it out, and STILL finish with a really great time.

What a day. I'm sorry you didn't qualify for Boston, but you certainly qualified for the bad-### Hall Of Fame. Awesome job.  :thumbup:

 
"It's been a hell of a year"

Yes it it has MAC, congrats on the epic marathon effort and your incredible year overall. 

 
@MAC_32  congrats on finishing your first marathon, I am hopeful you’ll stick with it.  In my opinion the endurance to race a marathon takes time (years) to develop which makes it so difficult for first timers to hit their goal.  There are lessons to be learned from every marathon and sometimes we don’t really understand those lessons until a few marathons later.    

You’ve had an incredibly successful year and I hope your rest up and plan on running another in 2017.

 
It's been an insane year for you, @MAC_32.  Congrats on fighting through that marathon!

Will be curious to hear what your take-aways/lessons learned will be as you digest yesterday's run.  

 
@MAC_32  Besides learning things from it, there is another advantage of having a disappointing race:  it makes it sweeter when you finally make your goal!  I hope you decide to run another marathon this spring so you'll be in the Boston 18 group.

I'm confused about the multiple "pulls".  Do you mean cramps?  (I'm lucky enough that I have rarely pulled anything or gotten a cramp (besides night cramps) so I really don't have a full understanding of these experiences.)

 
@MAC_32  Besides learning things from it, there is another advantage of having a disappointing race:  it makes it sweeter when you finally make your goal!  I hope you decide to run another marathon this spring so you'll be in the Boston 18 group.

I'm confused about the multiple "pulls".  Do you mean cramps?  (I'm lucky enough that I have rarely pulled anything or gotten a cramp (besides night cramps) so I really don't have a full understanding of these experiences.)
Short version - cramps are temporary, pulls are not. It is very difficult/impossible to run through a cramp, but they can go away quickly (not always though). Pulls are longer term problems that depending on severity can be managed short term (again, not always). I've done both before and while I'm not positive what the first few were I feel fairly confident the rest were pulls. I had to be real careful with each step, just a little bit off and I'd feel it pull again. I had difficulty focusing and I could tell the adjusted technique was overly stressing other muscles, so I think those were the big reasons why I kept re-pulling them.

All of this was confirmed once I made it to the medic after the race. Could already see the bruising. Since then - ice, drugs, rest, repeat. I should have a better idea in 48-72 hours exactly how bad it is, but since my 4 year old jumped on my stomach earlier and the pain was only 'WHAT ARE YOU DOING' worthy and not 'OH #### #### #### ####!' I'm cautiously optimistic. 

Edit - re-reading, I didn't really answer your question. A pull is more of a painful tug, how painful seems to depend on severity. A cramp is just the muscle totally locking up, preventing any use. 

 
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I intended to save this post for tomorrow, but I think I will sleep better without thinking about it anymore. Plus I've had a lot of time to think as I've alternated between ice and frozen veggies on my balls all day. 

First though, @igbomb you're correct, I am fortunate to have such awesome people in my life. My Good Samaritan was with the others at the mile 26 mark when I sent the mile 23 text. She sprinted to find me during mile 25. I was too overwhelmed to think about it at the time, but a few tears came out looking at our blurry picture at mile 25.99 when it was sent to me hours later - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10103839526809500&set=a.763411605070.2351567.20905504&type=3&theater. Without people like her around me I wouldn't be who I am today. 

@pbm107 despite how well this year went there's good reason I never got too ahead of myself about BQ'ing my first try. A lot can go wrong over 26.2 miles, especially with no experience. It took me how many years to figure out how to run a 5k? It's going to take time to get the true long distances down. Only way to figure it out is by making mistakes...and in order to make them you have to go for it. If you hold back all you're doing is preventi a learning opportunity. I don't know when my next marathon will be, but I assure you there will be more.

@Ned I think it all comes back to the even effort runs. By neglecting them I walked into other problems. Where did the groin pulls come from? Lack of strength because I all but abandoned strength training mid August, about 5 weeks before I wanted to. Do they happen if the back issue never surfaces? Who knows, but I put myself in a position to not have an out when they did. Speaking of the back, where did that come from? Probably a steady dose of over use. Cutting it loose late in a run every now and then is great, but one or more times per week? Cruising in is just fine, save yourself for another day. If you look at my training in a 9 month vacuum this over use doesn't really stick out. Look at it over the duration of my lifetime running career and you'll see I am in foreign territory. I took it slow, but I needed to take it slower, especially as the miles mounted up.

Sorry, bit of a tangent. Short version - progressions and hills will still be a part of the regimen next time around, but it'll be lower in priority to the even effort runs. Those are a weekly necessity. 

@Juxtatarot I have not ruled out a spring marathon, but based on what I think I need to do before starting another training cycle it will be tough. I hope I'm not on the shelf too long, but I'm not going to have a better idea until at least later this week. Once I get going it'll be mainly slow miles with progressively more strength training. Ultimately I think I need to get my strength training back to where it was in March (only this time, maintain) while increasing the mileage before I can consider starting another training cycle. A lot needs to go right for me to be ready by January. I'm just going to take it a week at a time then once I get to where I want to be physically I'll re-evaluate where I am mentally. I don't know exactly when I'll consider myself physically ready, but on top of strength being what it was a couple/few 50 mile weeks probably need to be completed with relatively low stress. 

Gotta go now, time for another session with the frozen peas. Thanks for the listening ear (eye?) though. You all rock.

 
Great stuff MAC.  Congrats on the race.  You have the skills and the drive to be really good at this. 

Marathons are hard.  Any small thing like your back can become a huge thing.  A thousand things can happen during a marathon and only about three of them are good!  Any one of the other 997 can derail your plans. 

 
Way to grind out a tough one, @MAC_32. You've probably got more running talent than anyone not named Steve in this thread. I have no doubt you'll be back to BQ some day soon.

I will say this though. I had a cramping problem during long races when I first started doing my annual 50K. I assumed that it was a salt or electrolyte issue and figured a pill or a drink would easily fix the issue. But the more research I did the more I realized that it wasn't so simple. My real problem is that I lacked the experience of the "intensity and duration" of the race was trying to run. That's probably why so many first time marathoners hit the wall so hard. Most people's bodies are going to revolt when pushed so hard and for so long the first time.

I believe when you did some of your MP runs, you ran around 7:00 pace, right? So when you ran the first half at 20-30 seconds a mile faster, you set yourself up for a breakdown. I would have loved to see you intentionally hold 10-15% back in the first half and really push for a negative split. Obviously, there's no guarantees either way but just something to think about.

At any rate, the good news is that your body has been pushed to the point now where it will be forced to adapt and HTFU for next time. I can't wait to see the results. 

 
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I believe when you did some of your MP runs, you ran around 7:00 pace, right? So when you ran the first half at 20-30 seconds a mile faster, you set yourself up for a breakdown. I would have loved to see you intentionally hold 10-15% back in the first half and really push for a negative split. Obviously, there's no guarantees either way but just something to think about.
I think I mentioned it a few weeks ago, but if I didn't the lack of good MP runs definitely had me worried about my plan and what I would actually be able to do.  The more I thought about the weather the more I doubted whether I could execute my plan, which required me to even split in the heat.  Without the pacer I expected and getting a few miles in feeling stress free ahead of schedule with some unfavorable running weather staring right at me I did what I have a tendency to do too often - change the plan on the fly.  I think I left a lot of minutes out on the course by doing what I did then busting, but looking back I don't think I'd have made Boston with any plan yesterday.  That's where the no regrets line came from on strava.  Maybe confirmation bias as it was my knee jerk at the time, but looking back on the race I think I was bound to bust at some point; it was just a matter of when.

I'm glad you wrote this though.  Getting me to think about that specific aspect of my training again.  I've been fixated with the even effort runs lately, but a result of focusing more on that should lead to higher quality MP runs.  Then I'll be able to get a better sense what my true MP is instead of being stuck guessing like I did this time around. Having experienced it I don't think Sunday's pace was too much, but I have to simulate it in training and I need to do it without causing problems like I did to my back.  Good testing will give me a better sense of what is a tolerable MP, which should get me to pace myself better in the first half because I'll have more confidence in what I'm doing when the real race begins.

 
Week 11 was a solid week.  Took me a bit to recover from Sunday's 15K.

M: 5 recovery @ 8:59/134.  Ran this in between hunts and holy cow I was sore from Sunday's race. :X  
T: First rest day in 31 days.  I really needed it.
W: 10 MLR @ 7:58/144.  Felt a lot better.  Ran this too quick - gorgeous weather had me excited.
T: 14 MLR @ 8:07/140.  Legs got heavy at the end.
F: 7 recovery @ 8:40/133.  WTH did that come from?  Most relaxed I've felt in a while.
S: 8 MLR w/ fast finish @ 7:55/143.  Felt good and pushed it at the very end.
S: 24 LR @ 8:04/145.  Well damn, that took forever.  This was an interesting one where I was tired from the start, but was able to work through it.  I lost my patience at the end and decided to open up my stride to just get it over with.  It strangely felt good to open it up - I was surprised I had the strength to do that after 3+ hours.  I've never gone over 22 for a long run, so that was a nice confidence booster.

68mi for the week.

 
I think I mentioned it a few weeks ago, but if I didn't the lack of good MP runs definitely had me worried about my plan and what I would actually be able to do.  The more I thought about the weather the more I doubted whether I could execute my plan, which required me to even split in the heat.  Without the pacer I expected and getting a few miles in feeling stress free ahead of schedule with some unfavorable running weather staring right at me I did what I have a tendency to do too often - change the plan on the fly.  I think I left a lot of minutes out on the course by doing what I did then busting, but looking back I don't think I'd have made Boston with any plan yesterday.  That's where the no regrets line came from on strava.  Maybe confirmation bias as it was my knee jerk at the time, but looking back on the race I think I was bound to bust at some point; it was just a matter of when.

I'm glad you wrote this though.  Getting me to think about that specific aspect of my training again.  I've been fixated with the even effort runs lately, but a result of focusing more on that should lead to higher quality MP runs.  Then I'll be able to get a better sense what my true MP is instead of being stuck guessing like I did this time around. Having experienced it I don't think Sunday's pace was too much, but I have to simulate it in training and I need to do it without causing problems like I did to my back.  Good testing will give me a better sense of what is a tolerable MP, which should get me to pace myself better in the first half because I'll have more confidence in what I'm doing when the real race begins.
Get yourself a watch with a HRM so you don't have to guess so much  ;)

As someone who's been in your shoes more times than not with this god awful distance, I really sympathize with you.  But, I want to echo @Hang 10's comments.  You can't gut out 26.2 like you can a 5K.  While I agree with you that you're a low 2:50s marathoner or better, I think it's going to take multiple training cycles/races to get there.  I have confidence that you'll get there if you decide to pursue it.   

Check out this guy's race for some inspiration...  Aside from pushing it too much at 21-23, dude ran a damn near perfect marathon.  https://www.strava.com/activities/746640698

 
You guys are machines. All of you. Unreal the training you can do.  @Ned- I guess I'll just go out and run 24 today and keep my HR at 145 and just breeze through it.

I hate you. 
:lol:  definitely wasn't a breeze, but thanks!

Just keep running.  You'll be surprised.........

 
Awesome report & race Mac! Way to gut through it. I have a few friends that run that marathon and it's legit. Tough course & weather is hit or miss this time of year. Can be perfect, stupid hot or freezing cold.

 
Awesome report & race Mac! Way to gut through it. I have a few friends that run that marathon and it's legit. Tough course & weather is hit or miss this time of year. Can be perfect, stupid hot or freezing cold.
Look at this ####### guy. :wub:

 
Made it through my second HM (Baltimore) over the weekend just under 1:50 which I am pleased with. Don't have tons of data and only 1 prior HM was in March at 2:07.  My pace was relatively according to plan and I was able to finish strong after a wavering during mile 11 - not the case in March where last few miles were plodders.  I struggled to set a real target for the race as I've never held 8 min miles that long so 1:45 was not really it and 2:00 was too long so I settled on being closer to 1:45.  I learned from the 1st HM that I needed more long training runs and I learned from the second HM I need more long training runs.

What I've learned here has been incredible and I will be slowly adding more miles and strength work to support the more miles.  I have an inkling to take on the Marine Corp marathon a year from now with a couple HMs in between. Gotta get to work on a plan.  

Thanks for the continued inspiration all.  

 

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