Ran a 10k - Official Thread (5 Viewers)

[SFBayDuck]

Nice job fellas.  Gritty efforts out there today.

 

[Ned]

@gruecd & @SteelCurtain - proud of you guys

 

[tri-man 47]

Way to tough it out, @SteelCurtain !!!

 

[gianmarco]

Congratulations @SteelCurtain. I know you didn't hit your goals, but looks like you gave one hell of an effort on another tough day. 

True BMF.

 

[Brony]

Hell of an effort @SteelCurtain and @gruecd!  Looking forward to hearing how things went out there.  #BMF

 

[The Iguana]

@The Iguana

All ok?  Haven't seen any runs lately.....

Sorry... Yeah. I gave myself a few days off. Friday and Saturday (the 5th and 6th), my hip really started bugging me. Sunday was a normal day off and I gave myself Monday the 8th off too. Went out on Tuesday the 9th and felt great for about 2.5 or 3 miles. Then the last 2/3 miles of that run it started hurting again. So, I gave myself a little more time off - have taken my dog on several looonnnggg walks. Also had an impromptu trip to Washington DC with my wife. Flew in early Saturday morning, walked all around the mall/monuments/museums during the early afternoon and had dinner/drinks with friends in the evening. Bought a car from same friends and drove home yesterday. 

I'll be going back out for a run this evening and see how things go. 

 

[BassNBrew]

Female winner with a 3 minute positive split. With a tail wind I think that might be a great strategy

 

[gianmarco]

Female winner with a 3 minute positive split. With a tail wind I think that might be a great strategy

Saw that and thought of you.

Could also be a man.

 

[MAC_32]

Female winner with a 3 minute positive split. With a tail wind I think that might be a great strategy

Based on how it's setup Boston doesn't strike me as the type of course you strive to negative split.  You want to try to get to mile 16 without taxing your body too much, focus on expending (most of) your energy from then until 21, hope you get to that point without depleting all of your reserves then hang on for dear life for the final 5.

 

[SFBayDuck]

It's been awhile since we had any good race stalking, so in an effort to make sure that stays a thing in here....

There were three out and back sections into and out of the peaks on the Diablo course.  So three times I ran back down to see an Eastern European vision in all black heading up.  I stayed ahead of her until a downhill about 5 miles from the finish, and she then blew by me and finished 9 minutes ahead.  Of course I googled her afterward and instantly felt a little better about getting smoked when one of the first google hits began with "Belarus National Track & Field medalist....."

 

[Zasada]

Eastern European vision

At first I thought she was wearing a vest with two big water bottles...

 

[gianmarco]

At first I thought she was wearing a vest with two big water bottles...

"Those aren't pillows"

 

[MAC_32]

It's been awhile since we had any good race stalking, so in an effort to make sure that stays a thing in here....

There were three out and back sections into and out of the peaks on the Diablo course.  So three times I ran back down to see an Eastern European vision in all black heading up.  I stayed ahead of her until a downhill about 5 miles from the finish, and she then blew by me and finished 9 minutes ahead.  Of course I googled her afterward and instantly felt a little better about getting smoked when one of the first google hits began with "Belarus National Track & Field medalist....."

More midriff next time, pleaseandthankyou.

 

[SFBayDuck]

More midriff next time, pleaseandthankyou.

She did unzip that outer shirt a couple of times I saw her....there was excellent midriff.

At first I thought she was wearing a vest with two big water bottles...

That better describes a local favorite who I didn't see until after the race as she ran the half marathon.

 

[Ned]

It's been awhile since we had any good race stalking, so in an effort to make sure that stays a thing in here....

There were three out and back sections into and out of the peaks on the Diablo course.  So three times I ran back down to see an Eastern European vision in all black heading up.  I stayed ahead of her until a downhill about 5 miles from the finish, and she then blew by me and finished 9 minutes ahead.  Of course I googled her afterward and instantly felt a little better about getting smoked when one of the first google hits began with "Belarus National Track & Field medalist....."

                     

 

[Zasada]

That better describes a local favorite who I didn't see until after the race as she ran the half marathon.

Clearly I need to hike more in California.

 

[gruecd]

Thx for tracking, guys. Heat and humidity absolutely killed me. Extremely disappointed and frustrated with these last couple races. Just can't catch a break. Still lying in bed feeling nauseated. Almost blacked out on the hotel stairs waiting for my family.

 

[mr. furley]

Thx for tracking, guys. Heat and humidity absolutely killed me. Extremely disappointed and frustrated with these last couple races. Just can't catch a break. Still lying in bed feeling nauseated. Almost blacked out on the hotel stairs waiting for my family.

take care of yourself

 

[SteelCurtain]

Brutal out there today.  The humidity was stifling and when the sun came out at mile 16, it got too hard to keep where i wanted to be. Ended up being escorted by medical at the end....apparently gagging and not able to walk straight draws attention.

 Quite frankly, not much of it was fun. The whole damn thing was a grind. 

I know I’ll be back but this one hurt physically and emotionally. Made me question why I do this sometimes.

Thanks for following and supporting.  It means a lot.  Like more than you probably realize.

I’ll do a RR report but I need to just go have a few beverages and lick my wounds first.

 

[gianmarco]

I'm "loving" both of your posts not because of reading how it sucked, but letting you both know how much I loved the effort you guys both put in such ####ty conditions.

Seriously, you guys both inspire to keep putting work in and persevering.

 

[ChiefD]

Thx for tracking, guys. Heat and humidity absolutely killed me. Extremely disappointed and frustrated with these last couple races. Just can't catch a break. Still lying in bed feeling nauseated. Almost blacked out on the hotel stairs waiting for my family.

Brutal out there today.  The humidity was stifling and when the sun came out at mile 16, it got too hard to keep where i wanted to be. Ended up being escorted by medical at the end....apparently gagging and not able to walk straight draws attention.

 Quite frankly, not much of it was fun. The whole damn thing was a grind. 

I know I’ll be back but this one hurt physically and emotionally. Made me question why I do this sometimes.

Thanks for following and supporting.  It means a lot.  Like more than you probably realize.

I’ll do a RR report but I need to just go have a few beverages and lick my wounds first.

You guys were beasts today. Take care of your bodies and know that, as @gruecd said just a couple of weeks ago, the one thing we cannot control is weather. And you guys gave it a seriously honest effort. Takes stones to push yourself as both of you did on a day like today.

I know we are all proud of your efforts today. 

 

[MAC_32]

Brutal out there today.  The humidity was stifling and when the sun came out at mile 16, it got too hard to keep where i wanted to be.

Looking at the hourly this morning, whether the sun made it out or not looked like the pre race wildcard. And mother nature decided to give you both the finger.

 

[The Iguana]

Below is a pretty cool article about Andrew Peterson from Indianapolis. My company does a lot of stuff with Special Olympics so I've gotten to meet Andrew a couple times and hear him speak at some events. Very cool guy. He is only the 2nd Special Olympics athlete to ever qualify for Boston. He finished today in 3:43:06 - a little slower than his goal of about 3 hours but sounds like it was brutal out there. 

https://www.wishtv.com/news/local-news/one-man-s-inspiring-story-is-taking-him-all-the-way-to-the-boston-marathon

facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/andrewpetersongoesforthegold

 

[bushdocda]

@gruecd & @Steel Curtain thanks for the literal daily inspiration. Sorry the day dealt a hot, humid hand - thanks for both reporting in ok after pushing it out there.  

I’ll be much more productive in the office tomorrow.  

 

[Nigel]

Congrats guys, feel better soon 

 

[The Iguana]

Ok, back on the wagon! Felt pretty good out there. Hip kind of talked to me a little toward the end, but not the same as before. A few days off with just walking, stretching, and the Thera Cane was a good thing. If you don't have one of those things, you are missing out!

Pretty sure a lot of my problem was a combo of skimping on post workout stretching and pushing a little too much the right after the Carmel race. Was so pumped to get out to get ready for the next one that I think I over did it a bit on the work and under did it on the body care. Hopefully back on track.

Also good to see the awesome work from the crew today. Doing it in less than stellar conditions is highly motivating as I head toward the final couple of weeks before my race. 

 

[-OZ-]

Brutal out there today.  The humidity was stifling and when the sun came out at mile 16, it got too hard to keep where i wanted to be. Ended up being escorted by medical at the end....apparently gagging and not able to walk straight draws attention.

 Quite frankly, not much of it was fun. The whole damn thing was a grind. 

I know I’ll be back but this one hurt physically and emotionally. Made me question why I do this sometimes.

Thanks for following and supporting.  It means a lot.  Like more than you probably realize.

I’ll do a RR report but I need to just go have a few beverages and lick my wounds first.

I hear you! Wasn't Boston but many of us go through the same feelings. 

If it makes it any better you're motivating me to consider running Memphis next December.

 

[Brony]

Just like I thought winter was done, I also thought my leg injury was done.  Wrong on both accounts.  

My left leg cooperated through 4 miles today which was a good improvement over the last several weeks.  Unfortunately, mile 5 was same old same old on that LCL sprain (or whatever is aggravated near my left knee). 

I'll take it easy the rest of the week, but man, I'm getting antsy (and fat too!). 

 

[MAC_32]

I hear you! Wasn't Boston but many of us go through the same feelings. 

If it makes it any better you're motivating me to consider running Memphis next December.

Knew you'd get that itch again soon!

 

[SayWhat?]

I know I’ll be back but this one hurt physically and emotionally. Made me question why I do this sometimes.

Pretty good indicator that you gave it everything you had.  Sounds like grue did too.  Rest up fellas, and don’t let the brutal conditions from this one impact your confidence moving forward.  I doubt many runners had the race they were hoping for today.

 

[BassNBrew]

Just like I thought winter was done, I also thought my leg injury was done.  Wrong on both accounts.  

My left leg cooperated through 4 miles today which was a good improvement over the last several weeks.  Unfortunately, mile 5 was same old same old on that LCL sprain (or whatever is aggravated near my left knee). 

I'll take it easy the rest of the week, but man, I'm getting antsy (and fat too!). 

Bummer Brony.  Hope this is a short lived setback.

 

[The Iguana]

Ok... this hip thing is starting to worry me a bit. Got up this morning to it being stiff/sore again. Going to keep stretching it and try to run through it for awhile. Nothing majorly painful and doesn't feel like a major injury or anything but it is uncomfortable and annoying. Thought having a week off would help but not so much. Felt way better while running but about the same after effects. 

 

[The Iguana]

Googling implies "hip bursitis". Researching info on treating it now. 

 

[bushdocda]

Where is the pain in the hip and what direction is it going, @The Iguana?  Get a sports massage if you’re not averse to it.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

Googling implies "hip bursitis". Researching info on treating it now. 

I've only gone to the doctor for two running injuries.  The first ended up being hip bursitis back in 2010.  I went to a physical therapist for a few sessions too.  I still have a sheet with exercises and stretches he prescribed.  I remember sharing it with  @JShare87 a few years ago.  Let me know if you want it.

I think it comes back every once in a while.  The piriformis stretch seems to work for me but I'm not sure why you're getting bursitis so you might have a different trouble area.

This video might be good to watch as well for more than one reason.

 

[Ned]

I've only gone to the doctor for two running injuries.  The first ended up being hip bursitis back in 2010.  I went to a physical therapist for a few sessions too.  I still have a sheet with exercises and stretches he prescribed.  I remember sharing it with  @JShare87 a few years ago.  Let me know if you want it.

I think it comes back every once in a while.  The piriformis stretch seems to work for me but I'm not sure why you're getting bursitis so you might have a different trouble area.

This video might be good to watch as well for more than one reason.

How's your heel doing?

 

[The Iguana]

Where is the pain in the hip and what direction is it going, @The Iguana?  Get a sports massage if you’re not averse to it.  

I've only gone to the doctor for two running injuries.  The first ended up being hip bursitis back in 2010.  I went to a physical therapist for a few sessions too.  I still have a sheet with exercises he prescribed.  I remember sharing it with  @JShare87 a few years ago.  Let me know if you want it.

I think it comes back every once in a while.  The piriformis stretch seems to work for me but I'm not sure why you're getting bursitis so you might have a different trouble area.

This video might be good to watch as well for more than one reason.

Here at work we actually have a massage person that comes in a couple times a week - although she's been off for a couple weeks for some personal issue. Also have a guy that does some physical therapy. I may try to get into one or both of them soon.

The pain is basically on the outside of my hip. From this article: https://paindoctor.com/hip-pain-from-running/, this is pretty much the exact thing I am having:

"You’ll feel troncharetic bursitis as an aching or burning sensation on the outside of your hip while running."

This was also in there:

“Since we have all been taught to run (or walk) against traffic, we tend to go to the left (in the U.S.) side of the street. This causes our left leg to have to reach down a little farther than our right, since roads have a slight camber to help water drain off.”

That also makes a lot of sense - I run on the road and on the left side of the road toward traffic. I've found several videos giving some different stretches and such to help address it. We'll see how it goes. 

ETA - I'd definitely be up for seeing the sheet. The things I've seen so far all make sense but more data is never a bad thing. 

 

[mr. furley]

 Ended up being escorted by medical at the end....apparently gagging and not able to walk straight draws attention.

my second half race ever was a slog. just brutally hot. there were periods from about mile 7 on where i got lightheaded, saw stars and lost sense of time. when i hit the finish line i must have looked awful as two people ran over and grabbed me immediately. 

my first thought was "wow, this is really the rock star treatment. they have people here to escort you off the course to get your medal   " not realizing that dozens of other people were just crossing the line and walking off on their own.

it still didn't hit me when i sat down on a comfy table, wearing a wrap, with a bottle of water in hand, some random woman rubbing my legs asking me a bunch of non-relevant questions. thought it was just all part of the deal.

then the water hit, i had a snack, everything started to snap back in to place and i realized... that must be what heat stroke feels like.

those medical spotters are a literal lifesaver. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

How's your heel doing?

Much, much better.  When I started getting hyperfocused on rolling the #### out of my calves, they (both heels hurt although the left much more than the right) slowly got better.  In particular there was a knot deep in my upper left calf that I honestly think was there for years.  I rarely notice heel or Achilles pain now. 

My problem over the last several months have been my lower abs.  Still trying to figure that one out.

 

[gianmarco]

Much, much better.  When I started getting hyperfocused on rolling the #### out of my calves, they (both heels hurt although the left much more than the right) slowly got better.  In particular there was a knot deep in my upper left calf that I honestly think was there for years.  I rarely notice heel or Achilles pain now. 

My problem over the last several months have been my lower abs.  Still trying to figure that one out.

They are hungry.

 

[Juxtatarot]

“Since we have all been taught to run (or walk) against traffic, we tend to go to the left (in the U.S.) side of the street. This causes our left leg to have to reach down a little farther than our right, since roads have a slight camber to help water drain off.”

That also makes a lot of sense - I run on the road and on the left side of the road toward traffic. I've found several videos giving some different stretches and such to help address it. We'll see how it goes. 

It could be the camber but it can also just be tightness in other areas is getting you all out of whack.  

 

[Zasada]

For you guys dealing with bursitis, I had it in my knee a number of years ago.  My very first attempt at running, and said bursitis cut that short pronto.  It was bad enough that I would walk with a meaningful limp.

Did everything I could to try to get it to heal.  Even stayed in bed for a whole weekend with my wife serving me (not so bad on its own).

What fixed it was going to the doctor.  He diagnosed bursitis, gave me a prescription for a mega dose of Naproxen, and I went home.

I took one dose of that magical drug and the next morning the bursitis was gone.

The toilet bowl full of blood told me I should take it easy on that stuff (and still do) but man did it ever work well.

YMMV.

 

[beer 30]

Brutal out there today.  The humidity was stifling and when the sun came out at mile 16, it got too hard to keep where i wanted to be. Ended up being escorted by medical at the end....apparently gagging and not able to walk straight draws attention.

 Quite frankly, not much of it was fun. The whole damn thing was a grind. 

I know I’ll be back but this one hurt physically and emotionally. Made me question why I do this sometimes.

Thanks for following and supporting.  It means a lot.  Like more than you probably realize.

I’ll do a RR report but I need to just go have a few beverages and lick my wounds first.

SOrry it sucked out there yesterday guys. Like Duck always says, "it might not be the day you want but it's the day you got." Sounds like you and Grue gutted it out, congrats guys

Ran across this article this morning, https://www.foxnews.com/us/marine-running-boston-marathon-for-fallen-comrades-crawls-across-finish-line

 

[bushdocda]

Here at work we actually have a massage person that comes in a couple times a week - although she's been off for a couple weeks for some personal issue. Also have a guy that does some physical therapy. I may try to get into one or both of them soon.

The pain is basically on the outside of my hip. From this article: https://paindoctor.com/hip-pain-from-running/, this is pretty much the exact thing I am having:

"You’ll feel troncharetic bursitis as an aching or burning sensation on the outside of your hip while running."

This was also in there:

“Since we have all been taught to run (or walk) against traffic, we tend to go to the left (in the U.S.) side of the street. This causes our left leg to have to reach down a little farther than our right, since roads have a slight camber to help water drain off.”

That also makes a lot of sense - I run on the road and on the left side of the road toward traffic. I've found several videos giving some different stretches and such to help address it. We'll see how it goes. 

ETA - I'd definitely be up for seeing the sheet. The things I've seen so far all make sense but more data is never a bad thing. 

Good luck. I don’t know anything about bursitis but if you haven’t googled/you tubed ‘Kelly Starett bursitis’ you should. That guys books and videos are tremendous resource for trying to self correct the crap we do to ourselves. 

 

[MAC_32]

Ok... this hip thing is starting to worry me a bit. Got up this morning to it being stiff/sore again. Going to keep stretching it and try to run through it for awhile. Nothing majorly painful and doesn't feel like a major injury or anything but it is uncomfortable and annoying. Thought having a week off would help but not so much. Felt way better while running but about the same after effects. 

It's been so long I forget what all various ailments I came down with and when, but I hit a rough patch about 6 months after deciding I was going to get back into shape.  I've not acutely followed exactly what all you've been doing, but from memory I've noted parallels along the way.  Up to this point I had increased the running and maintained the lifting.  I started a bad 220 pounds, kinda shaped like a part pyramid/part potato.  I lifted over lunch 3x per week, ran the other 2, ran as frequently as I could at night on lifting days, on weekends, and when I wasn't it was often due to participating in some rec sport.  After about 6 months I was below 200 and trimming up the mid-section, but a previous back injury...sore hips...on-again off-again neck...creaky knee...all sorts of different stuff was popping up.  So I hit the brakes running.  I maintained the 3 total body strength workouts, but I switched to all free weights and replaced the lunch runs with pilates 2x per week.  I got in as much mileage as I could at night and on weekends, but I made it secondary - and greatly scaled back the rec sports.  I think I did the right things to get to where I was then, but I needed to make some short term adjustments to get myself in balance.  Otherwise I would continue to struggle taking the next step.

You know your body more than any of us, but if this is a permanent lifestyle change I strongly recommend thinking about the big picture and not what's directly in front of you right now.  We've all tried to run out and through injuries before and most of us haven't been successful.  You've made some head turning progress in a short period of time.  And if you take a short break to get yourself in balance I think you'll be ready to do that again. 

 

[The Iguana]

It's been so long I forget what all various ailments I came down with and when, but I hit a rough patch about 6 months after deciding I was going to get back into shape.  I've not acutely followed exactly what all you've been doing, but from memory I've noted parallels along the way.  Up to this point I had increased the running and maintained the lifting.  I started a bad 220 pounds, kinda shaped like a part pyramid/part potato.  I lifted over lunch 3x per week, ran the other 2, ran as frequently as I could at night on lifting days, on weekends, and when I wasn't it was often due to participating in some rec sport.  After about 6 months I was below 200 and trimming up the mid-section, but a previous back injury...sore hips...on-again off-again neck...creaky knee...all sorts of different stuff was popping up.  So I hit the brakes running.  I maintained the 3 total body strength workouts, but I switched to all free weights and replaced the lunch runs with pilates 2x per week.  I got in as much mileage as I could at night and on weekends, but I made it secondary - and greatly scaled back the rec sports.  I think I did the right things to get to where I was then, but I needed to make some short term adjustments to get myself in balance.  Otherwise I would continue to struggle taking the next step.

You know your body more than any of us, but if this is a permanent lifestyle change I strongly recommend thinking about the big picture and not what's directly in front of you right now.  We've all tried to run out and through injuries before and most of us haven't been successful.  You've made some head turning progress in a short period of time.  And if you take a short break to get yourself in balance I think you'll be ready to do that again. 

Timely post. I was thinking about all of this while out on my run just a bit ago. Right now I really want to run the 1/2 in a couple of weeks. I am debating what my goal for it will be. I *think* I should be fine to run it so far. None of this right now is serious pain, etc, mostly kind of annoying. I am comfortable with a changed goal. Just after finishing Carmel I was set to try for under 1:40. I won't try that if I am going to hurt myself. I don't want to give myself an easy excuse but I also don't want to hurt myself either. 

So, right now my plan is to put in some miles and take proper rest days as I have been doing and try not to overdo it. Easier said than done as the my run yesterday and today were both done at a pace a little faster than I planned. Between stuff posted here and talking to a couple guys at work, I have some exercises/stretches to do to help with the problem area. I will do those diligently and see how things go. My hope is to be able to race the Indy Mini May 4th and a 5k at my kid's high school on May 11th - will see how much I "race" that verses just take a nice run. 

After that, I don't have any events planned on the calendar until the Monumental in November. My goal is to just make sure I maintain the healthy habits and make sure I have a solid "foundation" for when I start getting ready for other runs/races later in the year. The last half May and the first half of June is all filled with some fun family events that will allow me to run more for pleasure and less about "training". 

 

[MAC_32]

Easier said than done as the my run yesterday and today were both done at a pace a little faster than I planned. 

Fwiw, I wouldn't worry about that.  After cutting back as much as you did because of the ailment you're now fresh.  So a 5-6 mile run now at less effort than the same run 6 weeks ago may yield a similar pace - or even faster.  

 

[gianmarco]

It's been so long I forget what all various ailments I came down with and when, but I hit a rough patch about 6 months after deciding I was going to get back into shape.  I've not acutely followed exactly what all you've been doing, but from memory I've noted parallels along the way.  Up to this point I had increased the running and maintained the lifting.  I started a bad 220 pounds, kinda shaped like a part pyramid/part potato.  I lifted over lunch 3x per week, ran the other 2, ran as frequently as I could at night on lifting days, on weekends, and when I wasn't it was often due to participating in some rec sport.  After about 6 months I was below 200 and trimming up the mid-section, but a previous back injury...sore hips...on-again off-again neck...creaky knee...all sorts of different stuff was popping up.  So I hit the brakes running.  I maintained the 3 total body strength workouts, but I switched to all free weights and replaced the lunch runs with pilates 2x per week.  I got in as much mileage as I could at night and on weekends, but I made it secondary - and greatly scaled back the rec sports.  I think I did the right things to get to where I was then, but I needed to make some short term adjustments to get myself in balance.  Otherwise I would continue to struggle taking the next step.

You know your body more than any of us, but if this is a permanent lifestyle change I strongly recommend thinking about the big picture and not what's directly in front of you right now.  We've all tried to run out and through injuries before and most of us haven't been successful.  You've made some head turning progress in a short period of time.  And if you take a short break to get yourself in balance I think you'll be ready to do that again. 

Speaking of the bolded, I need to do the same. I've been stuck at 205 for a bit now. I haven't tried cutting intake hoping it would keep trending downward with more miles but that hasn't been the case. Will need to sacrifice some fuel for the next couple weeks and see if I can get those last stubborn pounds off. So frustrating.

My legs are pretty tired today after the hill workout. I'm glad I took that one day off on Saturday as I think it made a difference. And thank God it's my last hill workout for this plan. Starting next week, it's track work instead. Fitness-wise, though, I'm feeling pretty good. I think I might be close to, if not at, where I was last year when at my best. 

 

[ChiefD]

Speaking of the bolded, I need to do the same. I've been stuck at 205 for a bit now. I haven't tried cutting intake hoping it would keep trending downward with more miles but that hasn't been the case. Will need to sacrifice some fuel for the next couple weeks and see if I can get those last stubborn pounds off. So frustrating.

My legs are pretty tired today after the hill workout. I'm glad I took that one day off on Saturday as I think it made a difference. And thank God it's my last hill workout for this plan. Starting next week, it's track work instead. Fitness-wise, though, I'm feeling pretty good. I think I might be close to, if not at, where I was last year when at my best. 

As a guy who nutrition deprived himself because I am a moron, don't do this.

 

[MAC_32]

As a guy who nutrition deprived himself because I am a moron, don't do this.

Time and a place for this, but during training?  It's...risky.  I've mentioned my struggles shedding these extra 10 lbs more than once this year, but I'm really trying not to get into any sorta training cycle until it's gone.  I just need to make better decisions when I'm outside of my usual routine and stay the #### outta the pantry after everyone goes to bed.  But it also depends on what you mean when you say sacrifice fuel.