gruecd
Footballguy
Nice work! Just out of curiosity (and not that it matters much), but how long in duration were those 200m walk recoveries?
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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
gianmarco
Footballguy
Mostly between 2:10-2:25.
It felt like just the right amount. Much less and I don't know if I could have stacked the 400s consistently. HR was consistently recovering between 100-110 at the end of the walk (peaking between 150-160 at the end of each 400m)
The Iguana
Footballguy
Just got an email about the 2020 Carmel Marathon - this coming weekend you can register for the either the half or the full and it is only $44.
gianmarco
Footballguy
The Iguana
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Why were you asking? Recoveries too long? Not long enough?gruecd said:
I remember reading a while ago that different recoveries change the purpose of a workout. Shorter recoveries meant to simulate running on tired legs with lactate build up. Longer recoveries to allow for better quality repeats, especially if intense. Since these were shorter, more intense repeats, I figured it would best be done if I could maintain the same quality with each one.
My last 2 recoveries today were slightly longer because I was walking up to my next start and realizing it was going to be pretty hard. That's also why I cut it short by 2 today. I also figured the time I walked the 200m was about the same time it would take me to jog 400m so it shouldn't be that bad to take that time.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
ChiefD
Footballguy
The Iguana
Footballguy
Went for a run earlier this evening. Just updated strava with notes then was looking at my monthly totals and such. In the process saw my last run before Carmel... Had almost the same run with almost the same comments. I wasn't sure if I was ready for this one but now I'm stoked... Bring on the weekend!
The Iguana
Footballguy
April update: 101.4 miles run - and that was with basically taking a week off to rest my hip (which is mostly better but still working on it)
YTD: 407.9 miles
And it's fun what a little positive info can do... I really was kind of "not feeling it" before the run last night. Had kind of started consoling myself on what this weekend might be like. That run last night really has changed my perspective! I have a busy week the rest of the week but so looking forward to Saturday. Moving my daughter home from college for the summer tomorrow afternoon. Pick up packet and such Friday. Race Saturday.
Weather update looks decent. Basically going to be light scattered showers with temps about 50-55 at race time.
YTD: 407.9 miles
And it's fun what a little positive info can do... I really was kind of "not feeling it" before the run last night. Had kind of started consoling myself on what this weekend might be like. That run last night really has changed my perspective! I have a busy week the rest of the week but so looking forward to Saturday. Moving my daughter home from college for the summer tomorrow afternoon. Pick up packet and such Friday. Race Saturday.
Weather update looks decent. Basically going to be light scattered showers with temps about 50-55 at race time.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Well, you already know how to race in those conditions.
May as well start the IV beet drip today.
gruecd
Footballguy
I'm going to sign up. Like I said earlier, a lot can change between now and then, but worst-case scenario I'm out $44...
gruecd
Footballguy
Prior to hiring my coach, I trained using the schedules in Pete Pfitzinger's book "Advanced Marathoning." IIRC, he always advocated rest intervals equal to 50-90% of the duration of the workout intervals. So I was just curious about how yours compared to that.
gianmarco
Footballguy
That would be tough. Only 45-80 seconds recovery wouldn't allow me to hit those numbers.
If I actually did it at a slower pace (like my true mile pace, about :30/mile slower), then I probably could.
I wonder which option benefits me more. I'm open to trying that out for the next one.
Zasada
Footballguy
Had a speed workout scheduled this morning. 5x1km @ 10km pace + 400m jog in-between each. 3km WU & 3km CD.
I've been wondering lately just how fast I could run 1km if I really tried. @gianmarco's short races/runs/intervals have been increasing this curiosity.
Most/all of my training runs have prescribed paces and I never really get to go "all out" for any distance. Also, there's a 1.07km Strava segment on my usual running route that I thought might be in the realm of possibility for me to claim a CR.
So this morning I decided to give it a go. 3km WU, and then the first 1km interval at ~4:30/km (7:15/mi) pace. Then ran my 400m jog in a way so that my next interval would start at the beginning of the segment I was targeting. Once I hit the threshold, I turned on the jets. First 300m was good. Second 300m I faded a bit, especially when the wind briefly changed directions from a crosswind to a headwind. Last 300m I could see the finish so I got a little kick for that. Took everything I had to gut it out, and had to walk almost a full km after to recover.
After recovery, I got back to my intervals and made my way home.
...and upon uploading my run I found I got the CR! Woo! Fastest km I have ever run (3:47) and fastest half-mile (3:01). HR got to 176 which is the highest it's been in a very long time, perhaps ever.
The former CR holder who I displaced has faster CRs all over my part of town so it likely won't be long before he comes back to whip me.
But at least I'm king for a day.
I'm sure I broke all the rules of what a Hanson speed run is supposed to be, but one needs to have some variety from time to time, right?
I've been wondering lately just how fast I could run 1km if I really tried. @gianmarco's short races/runs/intervals have been increasing this curiosity.
Most/all of my training runs have prescribed paces and I never really get to go "all out" for any distance. Also, there's a 1.07km Strava segment on my usual running route that I thought might be in the realm of possibility for me to claim a CR.
So this morning I decided to give it a go. 3km WU, and then the first 1km interval at ~4:30/km (7:15/mi) pace. Then ran my 400m jog in a way so that my next interval would start at the beginning of the segment I was targeting. Once I hit the threshold, I turned on the jets. First 300m was good. Second 300m I faded a bit, especially when the wind briefly changed directions from a crosswind to a headwind. Last 300m I could see the finish so I got a little kick for that. Took everything I had to gut it out, and had to walk almost a full km after to recover.
After recovery, I got back to my intervals and made my way home.
...and upon uploading my run I found I got the CR! Woo! Fastest km I have ever run (3:47) and fastest half-mile (3:01). HR got to 176 which is the highest it's been in a very long time, perhaps ever.
The former CR holder who I displaced has faster CRs all over my part of town so it likely won't be long before he comes back to whip me.
But at least I'm king for a day.
I'm sure I broke all the rules of what a Hanson speed run is supposed to be, but one needs to have some variety from time to time, right?
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MAC_32
Footballguy
If you're training for an endurance race I think hitting the paces with the appropriate rest intervals is/may be more important. Shorter distance? Cut it loose. But as time goes on the challenge isnt to run them faster. It's to recover less in between.
Ned
Footballguy
In my opinion all runners in here should be worried about the bold. None of us are running short enough events to worry about building raw speed.
I coincidentally did a small speed workout for the first time in forever to help train for mtn bike racing (did a 3-4-3 200/400/200 workout). The main focus was the short interval rests since that's how the mtn bike racing goes. It was painful and I should pick a flatter route to do these on, but it felt good to put in some work like that.
gianmarco
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Oooof....
Just plugged in my time on the 1.5 mile race I just did into McMillan. Based on that, it seems my 800m race time is about the pace I ran the 200's last week (5:49) and my 1 mile pace is pretty close to the 400's I just ran yesterday (6:27). That means my 200 repeats should take ~44 seconds and my 400 repeats should take ~96 seconds. Yikes.
I need to cut my recoveries in half just to get to that 90% mark. What I don't understand is if I'm taking 44 seconds to run 200m and then it says to jog 200m to recover, there's no way I can obviously do that. Same goes for the prescribed 400m jog after the 400's. I have to cut each of those distances in half.
I'm not looking forward to next Tuesday anymore.....
ChiefD
Footballguy
To get ready for the relay I've been watching baseball in the garage, doing yard work, drinking beer and running 3-4 miles every few days.
Your way sounds fun too, though.
The Iguana
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
LOL I'm training, but I'm secretly planning a silent protest since you #######s gave me the hardest trail leg AND the long, exposed leg in the hottest part of the day. Cuz y'all know how much I like heat.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Congrats on the run!
This is very interesting to me considering recent conversations on your low heart rate at marathon and tempo paces. Frankly, I don't know what to make of it.
Zasada
Footballguy
Yeah my HR at my planned MP continues to stay low. I just attribute the 176 today to essentially sprinting for 1km. By the end of the run it was back down below 140 again.
ETA: Per Garmin, my resting HR has dropped from 55 in Feb to 51 in Apr as well. It's too bad I don't have data going back to early last year to compare, but I only got the watch a few months ago.
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The Iguana
Footballguy
Don't think I mentioned this before, but was kind of annoyed with the photographers for the Carmel race... There are 23,481 total photos uploaded. 5 photos are tagged as being @gruecd (only 3 of them are really him), 8 photos tagged as being @Juxtatarot, and 14... 14!... photos of @ChiefD but not a single photo of me made it on the page... at least not tagged as me. How is that possible?
You should look up the shots of chief, IMO... he's a pretty photogenic guy, IMO. Definitely didn't run fast enough, IMO, because he looks waaaaaaay too cheerful!
You should look up the shots of chief, IMO... he's a pretty photogenic guy, IMO. Definitely didn't run fast enough, IMO, because he looks waaaaaaay too cheerful!
gianmarco
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Was your bib visible? That's usually how they're tagging those, I think, and if yours was partially obscured or something it may have ended up in the pile of untagged photos that most races have.
In my last race they used face recognition technology on the photo website so you could search by bib number or put in a picture of your face and search. I tested it and it didn't find any of my photos using a face picture, though. I was wearing hat and sunglasses in the race, which I guess that particular tech wasn't good enough to overcome (wait, Clark Kent IS Superman? But glasses!)
ChiefD
Footballguy
It's funny you post this - I actually look for those guys during the race and try to spot them and smile or something. Need my race photos to capture my true essence.
The Iguana
Footballguy
It was pinned to the front of my shirt so it should have been visible. I actually searched for a number of the people that finished with times near mine and a lot of them in that area had nothing.
If I see them, I can't help but pose a bit too but I don't recall seeing anyone specifically taking photos this time.It's funny you post this - I actually look for those guys during the race and try to spot them and smile or something. Need my race photos to capture my true essence.
I'd imagine all the rain put a bit of a "damp-er" on the photo guys but come on... 23K pictures and not 1! Ugh!
Zasada
Footballguy
@ChiefD definitely looks like he's having the most fun.It's funny you post this - I actually look for those guys during the race and try to spot them and smile or something. Need my race photos to capture my true essence.
@Juxtatarot looks like he just ran through a monsoon. I know you guys all ran the same race but somehow he looks way more soggy. Without all that water weight, he probably would have cut even more time off his PR!
The Iguana
Footballguy
bump... I was kind of being funny before, but I really did want you to explain this to me... I'm missing something in your phrasing or I'm just not smart today, not sure which.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Probably how I wrote it.
Using the McMillan calculator, I used my race a few days ago to get my current fitness times and equivalents. This is where I got my current numbers
When doing my 200m repeats, I'm supposed to run them at the same pace I'd run an 800m race. With that pacing (using the calculator I just mentioned), it should take me ~44 seconds to complete. And that's about the average that I ran them last week.
When doing my 400m repeats, I'm supposed to run them at the same pace I'd run a mile race. With that pacing (again, with the calculator), it should take me ~96 seconds to complete. That's only a couple seconds slower than I did them yesterday.
The thing is, the recovery in between those was a lot longer than what Grue said it should be based on his training.
The thing is, based on the description in my workouts, I'm supposed to do 200m walk/jogs between the 200s and I'm supposed to do 400m walk/jogs between the 400s. Doing those, there's no way I can do the short recoveries recommended. I would have to cut those distances in half. I'm going to try it but I don't know how it will go.
Make more sense?
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
The bold is the issue. You plugged in your 1.5mi race into the calculator to get those recommendations (sorry I don't remember what you're training for). What @gruecd is talking about is from Pfitz's advanced marathoning book
that wants you to run the intervals at 3K-5K race pace; big difference.I hinted at it a few pages back when you started talking about speed training - 10x400 is a serious workout (I love speed work and that one scares me). You did the right thing taking longer RI's, but you want to try and cut your RI's down as you get used to them (and get stronger). You'll get a bigger benefit out of the workouts.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Ah, didn't realize the paces from the book are different.The bold is the issue. You plugged in your 1.5mi race into the calculator to get those recommendations (sorry I don't remember what you're training for). What @gruecd is talking about is from Pfitz's advanced marathoning book
I hinted at it a few pages back when you started talking about speed training - 10x400 is a serious workout (I love speed work and that one scares me). You did the right thing taking longer RI's, but you want to try and cut your RI's down as you get used to them (and get stronger). You'll get a bigger benefit out of the workouts.
Here's the plan I'm using now
In the description for the intervals, you can see why I'm using those paces. So I guess it's meant to have a longer recovery.
Going back to the previous discussion, am I getting more benefit running these faster paces and longer recoveries or better off running them at slower paces and shorter recoveries?
The relay is a different animal so I wouldn't say I'm really training for a specific race.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
My recovery tends to be an easy 200m walk/jog/walk between intervals, and that feels right to me. I wouldn't sweat it.
gruecd
Footballguy
@tri-man 47 and @ChiefD - Please check your email and reply regarding t-shirt size and color preference for the relay race. Thanks!
The Iguana
Footballguy
2 days!
TripleThreat
Footballguy
crush souls, gents.
