FUBAR
Footballguy
you've trained well. Now go!Mixed feelings this morning. Happy to be at my sister's wedding, not happy that in missing IM CHOO. Took a rest day.
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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
you've trained well. Now go!Mixed feelings this morning. Happy to be at my sister's wedding, not happy that in missing IM CHOO. Took a rest day.
Thanks for the support guys!
To those that asked, there is no A standard for the half. (Just the 2:15:00 or faster for the full) I am not sure of the reasoning, but USATF doesn't make a ton of sense when they do things these days. I just remember the standards were raised significantly in the recent trials. For the 2008 trials and earlier it used to be 2:22:00 or faster for men and something like 2:50 for women, then for 2012 they started raising the bar but also getting fancier but adding in half/10,000m qualifiers with 2:19:00/65:00/28:30 for the men and 2:46/1:15/? for the women. The idea was to make tougher standards but also give the younger runners more opportunities to qualify with the shorter events, unfortunately some bozos showed up with only a 10,000 standard and DNFd after running with the leaders for 10-12 miles and ruined the deal for everyone so they took away the 10,000 standard this go around. What's also interesting about the 2012 trials was the sub65 standard for men was an A standard but the sub75 standard for women as a B, which many speculated was an attempt to even out the fields a little bit because the women's standards have historically (and in most people's opinions still are) easier to hit than the men's, just by looking at the field sizes for the trials and the number of qualifiers currently. Of course the female runners and their supporters complained and got the sub65 changed to the "B" this go around. There were some arguments about putting in a faster A standard that one can achieve in the half, but the counter arguments were: (A) it is after all the MARATHON trials (B) half times don't always translate, pointing to multiple 62-63 min dudes who qualified with a half or 10000 and never ran a full before the 2012 trials and then had less than spectacular performances there. That's the not so short history of things as I understand it.
Current standards: (B) 2:18:00/65:00 (A) 2:15:00
(B) 2:43:00/1:15:00 (A) 2:37:00
To those that asked, there is no A standard for the half. (Just the 2:15:00 or faster for the full) I am not sure of the reasoning, but USATF doesn't make a ton of sense when they do things these days. I just remember the standards were raised significantly in the recent trials. For the 2008 trials and earlier it used to be 2:22:00 or faster for men and something like 2:50 for women, then for 2012 they started raising the bar but also getting fancier but adding in half/10,000m qualifiers with 2:19:00/65:00/28:30 for the men and 2:46/1:15/? for the women. The idea was to make tougher standards but also give the younger runners more opportunities to qualify with the shorter events, unfortunately some bozos showed up with only a 10,000 standard and DNFd after running with the leaders for 10-12 miles and ruined the deal for everyone so they took away the 10,000 standard this go around. What's also interesting about the 2012 trials was the sub65 standard for men was an A standard but the sub75 standard for women as a B, which many speculated was an attempt to even out the fields a little bit because the women's standards have historically (and in most people's opinions still are) easier to hit than the men's, just by looking at the field sizes for the trials and the number of qualifiers currently. Of course the female runners and their supporters complained and got the sub65 changed to the "B" this go around. There were some arguments about putting in a faster A standard that one can achieve in the half, but the counter arguments were: (A) it is after all the MARATHON trials (B) half times don't always translate, pointing to multiple 62-63 min dudes who qualified with a half or 10000 and never ran a full before the 2012 trials and then had less than spectacular performances there. That's the not so short history of things as I understand it.
Current standards: (B) 2:18:00/65:00 (A) 2:15:00
(B) 2:43:00/1:15:00 (A) 2:37:00
beer 30
Footballguy
Interesting list, surprised to see Bolt but I guess it makes sense until he has his Lance Armstrong moment. Lotta chicks, no Kenyans.The 50 Most Influential People in Running, per Runner's World. While Jurek made the list on his own, currently competitive ultrarunners Krar and Greenwood are grouped together as one entry
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The race site updates his status every tenth of a mile. That's cool!
Ned
Footballguy
leave it to Sand to expect him to Sand it! He's fine...
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Slowed down at 10k
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
No 15k update yet. I'm worried...
Ned
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
1:08:00
Ned
Footballguy
incredible time even considering it's not what the goal was. Curious how things went.ETA: think this was a PR too?
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pbm107
Footballguy
I am assuming he won't be happy with this result, but a 5:12 min/mile is incredible.
FUBAR
Footballguy
It's fun to watch what he does. Dude's an animal.Can't help but wonder whether he tweaked something or what happened. Clearly a great time but when he starts at a 4:59 pace and ends with ~5:17 for the last 7, he slowed down more than I'd expect for him.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Getting there.
Aug 31- Sep 6: 18 miles
Sep 7 - Sep 13: 22 miles
Sep 14 - Sep 20: 16 miles
Sep 21 - Sep 27: 34 miles
Is doubling running mileage in a week bad? Didn't ride at all this week, about 2.5 hours of cross-training (swim, weights, core)
Nigel
Footballguy
20:27 for me this morning in a local 5k, 6:36 pace and a new PR.
6:23
6:44
6:44
Forgot to stop the watch again haven't done the math on last bit. Last mile had a big uphill coming home so happy with the finish, probably could have gotten a little more out of the second mile. Not quite in shape yet for sub 20 but getting there.
6:23
6:44
6:44
Forgot to stop the watch again haven't done the math on last bit. Last mile had a big uphill coming home so happy with the finish, probably could have gotten a little more out of the second mile. Not quite in shape yet for sub 20 but getting there.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
As my recovery from a sprained ankle continues, I ran my one and only 20 miler in preparation for my marathon in 2 weeks.
I think I have been running for only 7 weeks so this 20 was not easy.
I'm not sure how the marathon will go. Still shooting to break 4 hours. Will see how it goes.
I think I have been running for only 7 weeks so this 20 was not easy.
I'm not sure how the marathon will go. Still shooting to break 4 hours. Will see how it goes.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
His post on FB started "Whew holy humidity, what a bloodbath."I'm about 2 hours north of San Jose, and it is indeed pretty muggy (for here) today.FUBAR said:pbm107 said:
Can't help but wonder whether he tweaked something or what happened. Clearly a great time but when he starts at a 4:59 pace and ends with ~5:17 for the last 7, he slowed down more than I'd expect for him.
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Yeah, I am still in San Jose hanging out with an old friend before my flight in 4 hours so I'll try to post more later, but basically I knew the qualifying attempt was out the window at 4 miles when the humidity caught up to me, I ran hard enough to not be too embarrassed to ask for another comp entry to a RNR race in the future. (Not to mention I have possible attempts coming up in 2 and 6 weeks, so while I usually frown upon the practice of shutting it down early, I kinda saved myself a little bit).
FUBAR
Footballguy
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Tough day today. Had an easy 12 miler scheduled, and was humming along nicely until mile 7, and all of a sudden started getting pain in my arch/heal area on my right foot. Bad enough that I considered stopping. Decided to just see if it was a random pain that you would normally get, but hung on until the rest of the run. Didn't get worse, but very noticeable discomfort.
Didn't step on anything, just all of a sudden. The rest of the day kept off of it as much as possible, but now the pain is basically on the outside of the foot. Almost as if I ran on the outside of my foot for 2 or 3 hours. My stride is pretty consistent, so I know this isn't it. Just where the pain is.
Anyway, seriously bummed. 2 weeks before the race, and it hurts. Gonna take a couple of days off and see how it feels, but not happy today.
Crap. :(
Didn't step on anything, just all of a sudden. The rest of the day kept off of it as much as possible, but now the pain is basically on the outside of the foot. Almost as if I ran on the outside of my foot for 2 or 3 hours. My stride is pretty consistent, so I know this isn't it. Just where the pain is.
Anyway, seriously bummed. 2 weeks before the race, and it hurts. Gonna take a couple of days off and see how it feels, but not happy today.
Crap. :(
Ned
Footballguy
Sounds like typical plantar fasciitis. Calves are probably tight. Start googling for PF treatment. There's a ton of info on this super common injury. My favorite is a lacrosse ball on the kitchen floor...
Sand
Footballguy
Pretty much that's all my Facebook is today. Lots of comments on the timing being borked. A couple riding friends finished in 10:30 and 11:45. Another guy (from Huntsville) swam 46 minutes (I hate him), biked 23mph, then had to drop out at mile 7 of the run.
Hopefully your buddy did as well (without the dropping out part).
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ChiefD
Footballguy
I have a foam roller, so I will work that over like a college sorority girl.
Thanks fellas - that was the first thing that popped into my head.
Frozen water bottle and/or frozen golf balls worked pretty well for me too, although golf balls don't stay cold for as long so you may want a few if you go that route. Frozen water bottle is a bit cheaper but depending on how centralized your pain area is it could be slightly less effective.
FUBAR
Footballguy
TheWalkmen
Footballguy
I did the 50 mile ride yesterday. It was actually 55.2 miles http://ridewithgps.com/routes/8678655
Runkeeper says it was 55.52 miles but that included a stop at a refueling station. Anyway, I did it in 3:42:34 (start to finish; didn't pause the app at all) or 14.97 MPH, rounded 1 decimal place to 15.0 MPH. My fastest mile was 24.39 MPH on a down hill stretch. That was incredible. It was a windy road with tons of trees down Babler Park. There was a rider about 50 yds in front of me and no one I could see behind me so I had the whole road to myself.
What a rush it was, I have an adrenaline fall off today and just don't feel great mentally, it's a little strange. I finally got a Giant Defy 3 on 9/12 and did 4 training sessions before the race yesterday, so I am pretty pleased with the results. Can't wait to do it again. I also raised $1,135 for cancer research and my wife finished her last chemo infusion 9/18.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
So everything I'm reading says to take a couple of weeks off. Obviously this is a little concerning. How much should I take off? On an as-needed basis? My first thought was to not run today and tomorrow, but any more than that and I'm worried.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
To play the contrarian, I have two rules about injuries during marathon training:
1. If it stops hurting by mile 5, it doesn't count as an injury.
2. If it's not bad two days in a row, it doesn't county as an injury.
If I didn't have these rules, I'd probably only be able to run half the time I do. At least weekly, I get some new ache or pain and I have a few chronic ones. For me, it's just part of the process.
I'm skeptical what you have is PF. My understanding is that will initially start when you wake up in the morning and when you first start running. It will fade after you warm up (unless it gets really bad). I think I've had some PF this summer but have been able to keep it at bay with calf and foot stretches.
It I were you, I'd stretch it out and run on it again today.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Chief, I got injured (shin splints) about 2 1/2 weeks before I ran Chicago 12 years ago. I took about a week off then tried a training run only to bag it 3 miles in. I didn't run again until 3 days before the race when I did a shake out run (4-5 miles) just to confirm it didn't happen again and it'd be worth the trek to find out if I can do the whole thing. It went fine, so I set off for Chicago. It was also my first one. The most important thing is finishing, so whatever you do between now and then should be with that goal in mind. Will your fitness suffer with little-to-no running between now and then? Given your goals, probably some, but probably not much. I breezed through the first half of the race. I thought it was actually too easy, so I went stupid and tried to pick up the pace, which I paid dearly for around mile 19-20. Things didn't completely fall apart until mile 22 or so, but had I been smart and just maintained my pace while I think I would have hit the wall I think everything would have been pushed back 2-3 miles.
I guess my point is, even if whatever ails you is bad enough that your training is limited between now and race day, you can still do this race. At least as long as whatever pain you experience can be managed during the race. In the end, you should be fine no matter how many miles you put in between now and then. Hopefully this is just a minor setback and you'll be fine within a couple-few days, but even in the worst case you should be fine. Just don't be stupid like I was halfway into the race if everything is going well.
I guess my point is, even if whatever ails you is bad enough that your training is limited between now and race day, you can still do this race. At least as long as whatever pain you experience can be managed during the race. In the end, you should be fine no matter how many miles you put in between now and then. Hopefully this is just a minor setback and you'll be fine within a couple-few days, but even in the worst case you should be fine. Just don't be stupid like I was halfway into the race if everything is going well.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Nice! 15mph isn't bad at all for so little training. That will only go up. Love fast descents. I don't think I've ever really figured out what my fastest mile was, so I went back to a couple likely suspects. Easily the fastest miles I've done, turns out, were at Six Gap. In that one did a 6 mile stretch averaging about 30 and in another stretch for 2 miles averaged 39 or so, with the fastest mile at 42mph. I remember really dialing it back on that 42mph mile as one could easily hit 55 - I'd never ridden it and I'm a wuss. Of course with that ride what I remember most were the effing brutal uphills to get to those downhills. Thanks for prompting me to look that up - pretty cool. Wish Strava would track that.
ThreeThousand
Footballguy
In all fairness, from my experience last year (and it seems the swim times were similar this year), swimming 46 minutes at Chattanooga is probably like 1:05 or 1:08 in a "normal" swim. I swam 1:23 in Florida in 2012...59 minutes in Chattanooga last year. Was I in better shape? Sure, but nowhere near that much better. The 23mph bike is much more impressive.
The_Man
Footballguy
So, my son did OK at the big XC invitational this weekend. Came in 57 out of 200+ runners, ran an 18:47 on the very tough 3-mile course, which is almost exactly a minute faster than he did last year. It's a really tough course - only the top 20 guys in his race broke 18:00.
And yet ... I just can't help feeling that he's not quite bringing his best performances to race day. I know he's much more of an endurance guy, and that the 5K isn't his best distance. He does better when he starts a little slower and runs a negative split - on Saturday, he went out fast because he was afraid of getting trapped way back in that huge pack and ran a 5:45 first mile. So he died a little on the second mile before picking it back up a little near the end. He is the best guy on his team in practice, but ends up finishing 2nd in the races (usually behind the freshman phenom, but this time the phenom sat out with an ankle and it was another teammate who beat him by 6 seconds).
Any suggestions or advice I can give him for running a faster 5K? For the second race in a row, I saw him in a full-out sprint at the finish trying to pick off 1 or 2 final guys - makes me feel like he's holding back during the race and then finishing with too much left in the tank. Holding something in reserve and not risking an all-out effort that could possible result in spectacular failure is very much in keeping with his character. I think maybe the same characteristics that make him a great kid and student - calm, careful, very measured, easy-going but disciplined - make him an average racer.
He never gets real pumped and I think sometimes is reluctant (afraid?) to go all out. Big meet tomorrow with a top rival team. Maybe I'll get out there just short of the 2-mile mark. I definitely think he does better with the slower starts and - as I said - seems to have too much left at the finish. So I think I'll try to hype him up a little bit at about 1.5 miles and see if I can't get him to start going a little faster and a little earlier, rather than waiting until the end. But other ideas are welcome.
And yet ... I just can't help feeling that he's not quite bringing his best performances to race day. I know he's much more of an endurance guy, and that the 5K isn't his best distance. He does better when he starts a little slower and runs a negative split - on Saturday, he went out fast because he was afraid of getting trapped way back in that huge pack and ran a 5:45 first mile. So he died a little on the second mile before picking it back up a little near the end. He is the best guy on his team in practice, but ends up finishing 2nd in the races (usually behind the freshman phenom, but this time the phenom sat out with an ankle and it was another teammate who beat him by 6 seconds).
Any suggestions or advice I can give him for running a faster 5K? For the second race in a row, I saw him in a full-out sprint at the finish trying to pick off 1 or 2 final guys - makes me feel like he's holding back during the race and then finishing with too much left in the tank. Holding something in reserve and not risking an all-out effort that could possible result in spectacular failure is very much in keeping with his character. I think maybe the same characteristics that make him a great kid and student - calm, careful, very measured, easy-going but disciplined - make him an average racer.
He never gets real pumped and I think sometimes is reluctant (afraid?) to go all out. Big meet tomorrow with a top rival team. Maybe I'll get out there just short of the 2-mile mark. I definitely think he does better with the slower starts and - as I said - seems to have too much left at the finish. So I think I'll try to hype him up a little bit at about 1.5 miles and see if I can't get him to start going a little faster and a little earlier, rather than waiting until the end. But other ideas are welcome.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'm freaked out when I hit over 30mph. I think my fastest was 35, at which point my handlebar tape started unraveling. 
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
I totally get the holding back thing as my son struggled with this at the beginning of his Sophomore season. His desire was more or less to just be in the top 7 to run varsity, so he ran very conservative, worrying about flaming out vs going for it. It took one race where he just went for it, knowing there would be another in three days where, if he flamed, he could go back to his conservative attack. In the race he went for it, he ended up varsity 3rd. Throughout the rest of the season I tried to get to the mile markers to get him splits and pacing info that really helped too. He says he doesn't really think when he runs, but I think he is a "heady" runner based on his Sophomore year. I didn't give him split info last year and have not this year. The deepest advice I'll give him in race now is to give him an "eyes up" if he short striding by looking down.
Possibly the MileSplit and Athletic,Net data could help; showing his where he falls in the district or region and where he could be by shaving off just a few seconds. If, say, he is rating out just outside the automatic state qualifiers (top 15 here in MI from the regional get an automatic trip to states) this may fire him up a bit. You may also find kids from other schools running at or near where you see him going. When my son was close to going sub 18 back in his Sophomore year he and I scouted teams (and one team in particular so he could spot them) that had a few runners that had gone sub 18 earlier in the season that he could seek to pace off of. The end result was high 17s in districts and low 17 in regionals.
I know a lot of this can seem over the top. I think I know when it gets to be too much for my son and back off. As a senior, I now only give him info when asked and he has stated in the past the the pacing, finding kids from other teams to pace off of and some of the ranking data has helped in the past.
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Ned
Footballguy
Since tomorrow is a big rivalry, I'm assuming you guys know the competition well? Is there a guy or 2 on their team just a little faster than him? Have him shadow them for the first 2mi and see what he can do.
5Rings
Lurker
Made it through my first Tri. The swim almost killed me, I was not ready for the ocean current and waves. Swallowed way too much water in the first 5 minutes and it really slowed me down. Of course, took the kids back down to the beach that afternoon and the ocean was like glass 
Biking is new to me and that was fun, kept a nice steady pace about 15mph. Run was also enjoyable.
As a guy who's competed in bodybuilding and power lifting, this was an eye opener for me. Lots of respect to all you guys kicking these awesome times.
Biking is new to me and that was fun, kept a nice steady pace about 15mph. Run was also enjoyable.As a guy who's competed in bodybuilding and power lifting, this was an eye opener for me. Lots of respect to all you guys kicking these awesome times.
The_Man
Footballguy
Good thought.
His best friend since 1st grade is the other team's #2; he's about 30 seconds faster than my son. Maybe I'll tell him to just say what the hell, and come up with a plan to stick with his buddy. The meet is at home, and our course is the most insanely difficult XC course I've ever seen. There's a hill that goes up about 150 feet in little more than a quarter-mile - even when I was in shape I've never really been able to make it all the way up without stopping - which they run twice during the race. My son loves the hill, so maybe he can really use it to his advantage.
2Y2BB, I'm with you on checking out the stats. I'm tracking stuff this season like it's fantasy football. Not really sharing it with my kid, though, other than to brief him on the other team and which guy he needs to stick with/beat. His team is going to be really, really good in about 2 years (long after he is gone) - the younger guys are getting faster and really starting to close up the scoring gaps. But they're not really competitive because they don't have 1 or 2 all-conference runners to compete with the other teams' top guys and so give up lots of points every race.
Sand
Footballguy
Bar tape unraveling isn't good. Max I've touched is 56mph or so. A number I don't share with my wife. I don't mind going fast but weigh a number of factors on how much to dial it back. Rule #1 - rubber side down. Actually, the worst descent I've ever done was last year in Springville (bit NE of Birmngham) - dead straight but steep and with 25mph gusts from the side. So sometimes curves aren't the scary part.
