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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (8 Viewers)

8 ####in 26 min mile!  Crushed previous PR by over 30 seconds after running less than 12 hours ago. Results of my run short but hard every day for a week? Shaved over 2min/mile off my pace. Insane. Now for a day off then work the long day back into the mix.

For the first time today, I felt like a runner, not a jogger. Damn I feel good...
Congrats on the big PR but I'd be cautious with this approach. The best bang for your buck fitness improvements will come from running slower for a longer period of time. I'd hate to hear that you tweaked something because you pushed too hard trying to break personal records daily. 

 
Congrats on the big PR but I'd be cautious with this approach. The best bang for your buck fitness improvements will come from running slower for a longer period of time. I'd hate to hear that you tweaked something because you pushed too hard trying to break personal records daily. 
Thanks and yeah.. this was a "run 1 mile every day for a week" micro-goal just to see what would happen. There were slow days mixed in (11:00 pace with the girlfriend the night before). Just pushed it 2-3 times over that week.  That said, going back to a much more normal training regimen now. I think

FIRST THOUGHTS: I'm going to target 4 days a week to start, with something like 2 midlength "slow" days (may start with 2mi), 1 "speed" day (1 mi, not necessarily trying to PR each week), and 1 "long" day (comfortable pace and distance focused... likely 3-4mi to start). Thoughts on this type of approach? 

Basically I have a 4mi (not running for time), and 5k (running for time) in September, then my Half Marathon in early Dec. I'm aware of the 12wk standard training buildup.. but I've got about 20 weeks. I'd like to run fast for the 5k (maybe sub 27:00?) without compromising my Half training (which I will be running to finish, not time). VERY much welcome any suggestions on training direction .

 
Thanks and yeah.. this was a "run 1 mile every day for a week" micro-goal just to see what would happen. There were slow days mixed in (11:00 pace with the girlfriend the night before). Just pushed it 2-3 times over that week.  That said, going back to a much more normal training regimen now. I think

FIRST THOUGHTS: I'm going to target 4 days a week to start, with something like 2 midlength "slow" days (may start with 2mi), 1 "speed" day (1 mi, not necessarily trying to PR each week), and 1 "long" day (comfortable pace and distance focused... likely 3-4mi to start). Thoughts on this type of approach? 

Basically I have a 4mi (not running for time), and 5k (running for time) in September, then my Half Marathon in early Dec. I'm aware of the 12wk standard training buildup.. but I've got about 20 weeks. I'd like to run fast for the 5k (maybe sub 27:00?) without compromising my Half training (which I will be running to finish, not time). VERY much welcome any suggestions on training direction .
You don't need the speed day right now.  If you're still feeling energized towards the end of one of your long runs then run the last mile of that fast.  You'll get more out of it, for both the 5K and eventually the longer stuff.

 
You don't need the speed day right now.  If you're still feeling energized towards the end of one of your long runs then run the last mile of that fast.  You'll get more out of it, for both the 5K and eventually the longer stuff.
Agreed. Also, you'll be properly warmed up. 

 
3 days sounds about right. Maybe like 2 30 minute runs and 1 45-60 minute if you can handle it. 
I generally prefer to run by distance vs time... ~4mi / 40min is my max proven "long" run range right now. I don't want to start off where an off day has me unable to finish. Maybe I'll start with 2x 1.5mi / 1x 3-4mi (based on feel that day?) and build from there? 

I've heard max 10% increase in long day weekly.. is that an accurate guideline?  Any issues with squeezing in another slow 1-1.5mi "mental health" day in there as needed if I'm feeling okay and conservative on pace?

Sorry to spam the thread, just want to set up a good program going forward coming out of this week long experiment. Thanks so much guys. 

 
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I generally prefer to run by distance vs time... ~4mi / 40min is my "long" run range right now. I don't want to start off where an off day has me unable to finish. Maybe I'll start with 2x 1.5mi / 1x 3-4mi (based on feel that day?) and build from there. I've heard max 10% increase in long day weekly.. is that an accurate guideline? 
The only reason I suggested time, instead of distance is because it will keep you from over working when you're just just supposed to be doing some light aerobic work. Also, as your fitness improves, your workout times will stay the same, instead of decreasing. Your body doesn't know distance. It knows intensity and duration. Time on your feet is key in training. 

 
I generally prefer to run by distance vs time... ~4mi / 40min is my "long" run range right now. I don't want to start off where an off day has me unable to finish. Maybe I'll start with 2x 1.5mi / 1x 3-4mi (based on feel that day?) and build from there. I've heard max 10% increase in long day weekly.. is that an accurate guideline? 
One advantage of running to time is the distance you'll cover over that time will increase as you run more.  It's generally a more efficient way to progress and will keep you within that 10% increase you referenced.  I think that 10% is a good guideline, but don't hesitate if you feel like you need to take your foot off the gas for a week sometime in July.  I believe in including a down week  periodically more than I do the 10% weekly increase.  Recharges you then your starting point for the next cycle is greater than the last one.  When's that down week?  Totally depends on your training, but every 3 weeks is a good baseline.  I've gone a month without a down period and (knock on wood) feel great right now.  I'm actually going stir crazy because I have an off day today and am forcing myself to stick to it since the only off day I've had over that period involved 3 hours of yard work.  That said, I've also had periods in which I've only gone 9-10 days and needed some recovery.  Those shorter cycles were much more intense day-to-day than the last month has been though.

 
I generally prefer to run by distance vs time... ~4mi / 40min is my max proven "long" run range right now. I don't want to start off where an off day has me unable to finish. Maybe I'll start with 2x 1.5mi / 1x 3-4mi (based on feel that day?) and build from there? 

I've heard max 10% increase in long day weekly.. is that an accurate guideline?  Any issues with squeezing in another slow 1-1.5mi "mental health" day in there as needed if I'm feeling okay and conservative on pace?

Sorry to spam the thread, just want to set up a good program going forward coming out of this week long experiment. Thanks so much guys. 
:no:   no spamming here, just good questions. 

I forget - do you have a heart rate monitor?  It's the best initial investment you can make for running IMO.  Other than shoes I guess.

 
I generally prefer to run by distance vs time... ~4mi / 40min is my max proven "long" run range right now. I don't want to start off where an off day has me unable to finish. Maybe I'll start with 2x 1.5mi / 1x 3-4mi (based on feel that day?) and build from there? 

I've heard max 10% increase in long day weekly.. is that an accurate guideline?  Any issues with squeezing in another slow 1-1.5mi "mental health" day in there as needed if I'm feeling okay and conservative on pace?

Sorry to spam the thread, just want to set up a good program going forward coming out of this week long experiment. Thanks so much guys. 
You're not spamming the thread - this is what we're here for!

I agree with them both and am probably the biggest advocate in here for keeping the majority of your runs slow and easy.  Its even more important as you're getting your feet under you.  It's hard, but temper your enthusiasm and keep your runs nice and relaxed.  The accumulation of time on your feet will build the foundation you'll need for later on when it's time to focus on speed work.

 
You're getting good advice in here @icon. The tendency when first starting is to want every run to be faster than the last. I still fight at times to get out of that mindset. Slower runs leave you feeling refreshed. Constantly fatigued/sore legs lead to bad form and injuries. Focus on gradually building mileage at an easy pace for a while and you'll see better results and likely enjoy it more. 

 
:no:   no spamming here, just good questions. 

I forget - do you have a heart rate monitor?  It's the best initial investment you can make for running IMO.  Other than shoes I guess.
Running with a Wahoo Tickr X mated to the wahoo software (for overall runs) and strava (where I exclude my warmup walk from the times/distances).  Some folks don't like chest straps... for now I really like it. Gives me lots of interesting data which helps keep my inner data nerd motivated. I definitely target heart rate zones (145-150 is a nice sweet spot for me). 
 

 
Running with a Wahoo Tickr X mated to the wahoo software (for overall runs) and strava (where I exclude my warmup walk from the times/distances).  Some folks don't like chest straps... for now I really like it. Gives me lots of interesting data which helps keep my inner data nerd motivated. I definitely target heart rate zones (145-150 is a nice sweet spot for me). 
 
that's my zone as well, but what are you basing your sweet spot on?  We've probably been through this, I don't remember how much you've gotten into MAF or Z2 or other forms of HR training.

 
Awesome advice in here... thank you guys so much. I may switch over to the time method here before long. One thing I like about the distance is I have runs through my neighborhood mapped out of varying distances (1, 2, 2.5, 3mi, etc) that allow me to keep things consistent. I guess I can develop similar routes for time and just circle back or add a cove or something if I'm ahead of pace. Though if I'm doing a good job of pacing myself, it should be fairly consistent. I'll have to think about that a bit. 

Okay so to start I should be targeting 2 shorter (50-60% of long run) runs at conservative pace, and 1 long run at conservative pace per week? Roughly? 

Re: The down weeks every 3-4 weeks... you suggest a week off altogether, or just a couple very light/short leg loosener days in there? 

THANK YOU
 

 
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Awesome advice in here... thank you guys so much. I may switch over to the time method here before long. One thing I like about the distance is I have runs through my neighborhood mapped out of varying distances (1, 2, 2.5, 3mi, etc) that allow me to keep things consistent. I guess I can develop similar routes for time and just circle back or add a cove or something if I'm ahead of pace. Though if I'm doing a good job of pacing myself, it should be fairly consistent. I'll have to think about that a bit. 

Okay so to start I should be targeting 2 shorter (50-60% of long run) runs at conservative pace, and 1 long run at conservative pace per week? Roughly? Yep, that's good.

Re: The down weeks every 3-4 weeks... you suggest a week off altogether, or just a couple very light/short leg loosener days in there? A good down week would be lighter/shorter runs than the previous build up weeks.  You don't want to completely stop running.

THANK YOU
 

 
Awesome advice in here... thank you guys so much. I may switch over to the time method here before long. One thing I like about the distance is I have runs through my neighborhood mapped out of varying distances (1, 2, 2.5, 3mi, etc) that allow me to keep things consistent. I guess I can develop similar routes for time and just circle back or add a cove or something if I'm ahead of pace. Though if I'm doing a good job of pacing myself, it should be fairly consistent. I'll have to think about that a bit. 

Okay so to start I should be targeting 2 shorter (50-60% of long run) runs at conservative pace, and 1 long run at conservative pace per week? Roughly? 

Re: The down weeks every 3-4 weeks... you suggest a week off altogether, or just a couple very light/short leg loosener days in there? 

THANK YOU
 
I have a lot of routes mapped out too.  If I get done and still have time left I do exactly as you mentioned, keep going.  Sometimes it's just another 5 driveways, sometimes it's mostly around the block, and other times it's been a whole mile.

Also, if it makes you feel any better - I trained a lot like you want to train when I first arrived here a few years ago.  It didn't work.  It took a long...long time for these guys to get through to me, but once they did the gains I've experienced...never would have thought I could be where I am now.  Be patient, disciplined, and listen to these guys and you will be successful.

EDIT: the down week is as Ned mentioned, shorter and easier runs.  If you do 13, 15, and 18 miles the next three weeks and need a down week then three easy runs of 3-4 miles should suffice.  Then get going again and ideally the next cycle has more miles, maybe even at a quicker rate.

 
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Gotcha... speed day out... so 3 normal/slow mid-distance runs and one long day per week? 
I am a big fan of having plans spelled out for me. This is my current go to for running plans. Look through them and see if one fits you. Here is a link for half marathon plans. He has others.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51130/Half-Marathon-Training-Guide

I am currently in week 5 of the marathon novice plan. I do not have a marathon scheduled, I just like being told what to do and I am trying to gather HR info.

 
I have a lot of routes mapped out too.  If I get done and still have time left I do exactly as you mentioned, keep going.  Sometimes it's just another 5 driveways, sometimes it's mostly around the block, and other times it's been a whole mile.

Also, if it makes you feel any better - I trained a lot like you want to train when I first arrived here a few years ago.  It didn't work.  It took a long...long time for these guys to get through to me, but once they did the gains I've experienced...never would have thought I could be where I am now.  Be patient, disciplined, and listen to these guys and you will be successful.

EDIT: the down week is as Ned mentioned, shorter and easier runs.  If you do 13, 15, and 18 miles the next three weeks and need a down week then three easy runs of 3-4 miles should suffice.  Then get going again and ideally the next cycle has more miles, maybe even at a quicker rate.
I have ZERO doubts that guidance from you guys will lead to faster gains with decreased risk of injury. That's why I'm here. :) I know my "week of miles" thing was far from optimal... was more of an experiment on the effects of daily running on my body. Going forward I plan to follow a more proper training plan as outlined by you guys. :thumbup:

I am a big fan of having plans spelled out for me. This is my current go to for running plans. Look through them and see if one fits you. Here is a link for half marathon plans. He has others.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51130/Half-Marathon-Training-Guide

I am currently in week 5 of the marathon novice plan. I do not have a marathon scheduled, I just like being told what to do and I am trying to gather HR info.
I was looking at Hal Higdon's plans... his 12wk half training plan looks great. However I've got a good 8+ weeks before I should be starting that. I just figured the best plan would be to just build distance normally (via the 3-4 day regimen suggested above), then when I'm 12 weeks out, start his training regimen so I build/peak at the appropriate time. Would this be the right approach? 

Regarding the race to train approach mentioned earlier. I like the idea but there just arent enough races around here to suitably work... so I'm going to target a more traditional approach with a few races mixed in.  EDIT: Looks like there is a road race series that slowly builds to half distance in time for the st jude (but is reportedly a mind-numbingly boring course)... hrm. 

 
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I busted out the GoPro again this weekend.  I want to get a little more experience with it prior to heading up to Western States in a couple of weeks to pace/crew again, as we want to get some good footage of our buddy.

Put together a little 2 minute video of my run on Sunday, this is the trail up Mt. Burdell nearby (for those who see me tag those runs on Strava). 

 
I busted out the GoPro again this weekend.  I want to get a little more experience with it prior to heading up to Western States in a couple of weeks to pace/crew again, as we want to get some good footage of our buddy.

Put together a little 2 minute video of my run on Sunday, this is the trail up Mt. Burdell nearby (for those who see me tag those runs on Strava). 
Gorgeous area, man.

How many ticks do you pull off of you on a run like that?  All that tall grass has to be a tick wonderland. 

 
Gorgeous area, man.

How many ticks do you pull off of you on a run like that?  All that tall grass has to be a tick wonderland. 
Funny you should say that.  I've only gotten one tick in 6-7 years of trail running....until this year where I've had two including one on my calf on Sunday.  

 
Sweet.  What do you use for editing?
Just the GoPro Studio.  I know there's a lot better apps out there, but I haven't delved into that yet.  My buddy uses all Adobe products, for example, so he'll probably edit all the Western States footage we take.  He used that to put together the Pine to Palm 100 video he made of my first 100M.

 
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Thoughts on this schedule?

Been tinkering with something along the lines of Higdon's plan, but with my extra time and race schedules built in. 

Note slight stepdowns after the max-effort 5k, and a few things like that...  The reason for the long plateau around 6mi is to account for some travel around that time, and an expected plateau of sorts around 10k distance. Want to be sure my body has time to get very comfortable at that range, plus I've got the 5k coming up so I may work in some speed work in the weeks leading up if I'm feeling good. 

My time for the 5K two weeks ago was 33:00... crappy but I made it. I've dropped my 1mi time by a ton since then (to 8:30). My Current goal for that 5k (10 weeks out) is 27:00 (basically my 1mi pace stretched out to 5k distance). I'm thinking I can build my endurance to that point in 10wks.. basically shave 6+ mins in 12 weeks. Will see. 

 
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Thoughts on this schedule?

Been tinkering with something along the lines of Higdon's plan, but with my extra time and race schedules built in. 

 
More miles sooner and don't make a plan beyond July 10 right now.  That'd be a good time to re-eval.  You may be able to handle a heavier workload, but you'll be better able to assess after a few weeks.  Instead of sticking to Tues-Thurs-Sat can you just do every other day?  That'd net you 2 more total runs over the next 4 weeks and still gives you a rest day in between each run day.  It'd also be a better measure of whether what you're doing is too much, not enough, or just right.

 
@icon I think your rest weeks look too restful, cutting them back 50% or more of the week prior is too much. 20% seems more reasonable. I wouldn't even refer to them as "rest" weeks, more like "step-back" weeks. 

 
@icon I think your rest weeks look too restful, cutting them back 50% or more of the week prior is too much. 20% seems more reasonable. I wouldn't even refer to them as "rest" weeks, more like "step-back" weeks. 
Exactly what I was going to point out. :hifive:

Otherwise, this should get you across the finish line for St. Jude.

 
@icon I think your rest weeks look too restful, cutting them back 50% or more of the week prior is too much. 20% seems more reasonable. I wouldn't even refer to them as "rest" weeks, more like "step-back" weeks. 
Good to know! I'll adjust the rest weeks upward a bit... I didn't know how much they should back off. Thanks! 

More miles sooner and don't make a plan beyond July 10 right now.  That'd be a good time to re-eval.  You may be able to handle a heavier workload, but you'll be better able to assess after a few weeks.  Instead of sticking to Tues-Thurs-Sat can you just do every other day?  That'd net you 2 more total runs over the next 4 weeks and still gives you a rest day in between each run day.  It'd also be a better measure of whether what you're doing is too much, not enough, or just right.
Thanks for the reply:
• I'm going to see how my body responds to added distance. I have a whopping 1 5k completed under my belt, and I've never really run more than 3-5 miles a week for any stretch... so I'm worried you may be overestimating my conditioning level. IF I find my body is responding well I assure you I will accelerate the plan.
• I'm also admittedly a LITTLE nervous about overtraining too early and getting PF or something that could derail this whole project. Top of my right hammy is already becoming an ongoing "tinge" that I'm working on with a roller, stretching, and lacrosse ball.  
• Every other day is ideal but difficult. I have a very active social schedule. Not making excuses, I've learned that you have to make running a priority and fit it in early/late/whenever... but I want to start conservative and let my body guide me. I'll likely work in extra runs if I'm feeling good. 
• Regarding not planning past July 10th.. I'm a planner, it's in my blood. I view this file as a breathing document, however... and expect it to be adjusted several times through this adventure. 

Not trying to look good advice down... I really appreciate it. Those are just my thoughts in response. Thank you again, guys.... 

REVISED SCHEDULEhttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108936453/StJude_Half_Training.png

 
I busted out the GoPro again this weekend.  I want to get a little more experience with it prior to heading up to Western States in a couple of weeks to pace/crew again, as we want to get some good footage of our buddy.

Put together a little 2 minute video of my run on Sunday, this is the trail up Mt. Burdell nearby (for those who see me tag those runs on Strava). 
Love it... man I hate how boring/flat this part of the country is, in comparison. 

 
Looks pretty good.  I might put a bit of a "taper" week in there 11/21, the week before your half, with your peak weeks coming in the two weeks before that (11/7, 11/14).  Conventional wisdom is that it takes about 10 days to benefit from a workout, and while that varies depending up on the specific stimulus, it's a decent rule of thumb. So maybe switch 10/10 and 10/17, then have a solid 4 week peak the weeks of 10/24, 10/31, 11/7, 11/14 and then go into a taper.

Of course as you and others have said you have no idea how you'll fare and be adapting that far out, but I'm with you on having a plan in place that you are ready to adjust as you move forward.

 
On vacation in Minnesota. My son caught a 30" northern and a lot of bass for meals. This is the one who never catches fish, so he has been pumped. I've been drinking beer and hanging with my brothers and kids and have run once. Gonna go in the morning, so I have been a slacking turd.

And wife and kids are happy with me. Life is good. Marathon training can wait a week for the sake of their happness.

 
On vacation in Minnesota. My son caught a 30" northern and a lot of bass for meals. This is the one who never catches fish, so he has been pumped. I've been drinking beer and hanging with my brothers and kids and have run once. Gonna go in the morning, so I have been a slacking turd.

And wife and kids are happy with me. Life is good. Marathon training can wait a week for the sake of their happness.
Have always wanted to go fishing for Pike.. I hear they're a fun catch. :thumbup:

 
So that tinge/tightness I've had at the very top of my right hammy got tweaked at kickball last night and is now full on pain. Nothing serious, but it's uncomfortable to walk. Sooooo Ibuprofen. roller, and rest I guess. Going to skip today (or should I walk?) and target a light run Sat or sun if it feels better. 

 
It looks like I'll be 5K'ing July 2, no matter the conditions.  Arguably the fastest course in the area, so hopefully it's just not TOO bad.  The forecasted  Suck is just too much the next two weekends.  Probably for the best anyway as I really haven't done much speed recently, so I'd like to do at least one good one early next week.  I've done some VO2 max-like efforts during my strength training/running hybrid workouts, but getting to that point in that type of workout vs. running is a lot different.

Currently at 114 miles for the month and well on my way to a new monthly high, established a new one last month of 181 and schedule indicates about 210 this month.  I'm not concerned about getting there, but I am curious how I will handle the 60+ mile weeks set to begin in July.

 
So that tinge/tightness I've had at the very top of my right hammy got tweaked at kickball last night and is now full on pain. Nothing serious, but it's uncomfortable to walk. Sooooo Ibuprofen. roller, and rest I guess. Going to skip today (or should I walk?) and target a light run Sat or sun if it feels better. 
Take it day by day - don't get too aggressive with the stretching.

This is a good case for keeping all of your running nice and easy for the time being.

 
On vacation in Minnesota. My son caught a 30" northern and a lot of bass for meals. This is the one who never catches fish, so he has been pumped. I've been drinking beer and hanging with my brothers and kids and have run once. Gonna go in the morning, so I have been a slacking turd.

And wife and kids are happy with me. Life is good. Marathon training can wait a week for the sake of their happness.
Where are you at in MN?  Sorry about the rain lately.  Hopefully you're still around for what looks to be a solid weekend to come!

 
:X :hangover:   8am, SI 163 makes for a rough 10k trying to stay in Z2.

ETA: but :clap:   the leg is painless.

 
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:X :hangover:   8am, SI 163 makes for a rough 10k trying to stay in Z2.
Oof.  Gross.  I gave some intervals a shot last night and succumbed to The Suck.  First three were solid, but I had problems getting my heart rate back down, so I only did one more and cut the workout off at 5 miles instead of the 6-7 I wanted.  Looking at my pace afterwards I probably did the on portion too fast though.  I intended to push lactate thresh hold, but my pace indicates I was probably closer to VO2 max.  

 
Been awhile since I have been in here. After a rough couple of years, I got divorced a few months ago and am looking to get in better shape and get back to running regularly. Just reading the last page or so, it is great to see that everyone in here is still so encouraging. It really is motivating. I love how you guys are helping Icon with his training schedule. Anyway it is good to be back in this thread.

 
Been awhile since I have been in here. After a rough couple of years, I got divorced a few months ago and am looking to get in better shape and get back to running regularly. Just reading the last page or so, it is great to see that everyone in here is still so encouraging. It really is motivating. I love how you guys are helping Icon with his training schedule. Anyway it is good to be back in this thread.  
Welcome back!  Been there with the divorce, my running was way down in 2010-11 while I was going through that.  Once I got back into though, it really helped on a lot of levels.

 
My new mantra is slow it down and hit the hills. My goal with each run is to get close to 50' of elevation/mile and this is the first full week where I'm in that ballpark with 36 miles and almost 1,700 ft. So many great hills near me I've been a fool not to have been running the more often, particularly in my Boston prep. I've got a long one planned for tomorrow in a hilly area of Brookline/Newton to keep that going. 

Ii'm still mixing in some harder efforts here and there but in general trying not to worry about time. I did purposely chase a CR though in the middle of this morning's easy 5M, and got it with a 6:02 pace effort up a .2M 60 ft climb segment on a pretty well-traveled route. My first CR! 

 

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