MAC_32
Footballguy
I haven't seen them on strava so they haven't happened.I've gotten out on a handful of runs
I haven't seen them on strava so they haven't happened.I've gotten out on a handful of runs
This is pretty much my plan - it's what I've practiced on my long runs the last couple months or so. Basically anything over 13 miles, I've taken my chews and my water bottles. I basically eat 1 gummy chew every mile +/- with a couple of swigs of drink to go with them - basically a mouthful of liquid when I put the chew in and another drink when I finish it to wash it down. I use the mile splits as a reminder to put the next one in if I haven't had one recently. For a while I was just drinking water with them but recently started added an electrolyte tablet thing to the water bottle also - adds a few more calories but more so the potassium, salt, etc. No idea how much it is a real help verses a mental one but I have liked them quite a bit.I ate one or two chews at every mile starting at mile one. This lasted until about mile 15 or 16 I think. At that point I just didn’t want them anymore. But it was fine.
I drank the tailwind every time I saw an aid station. So I was able to stay away from the early crowded aid stations and stay hydrated. I did this until the tailwind was out. I then switched to water or gatorade the rest of the way. I just alternated each aid station.
Well that's great news on the health front. Maybe some WS lottery luck would help with the funk. Would be awesome if Duck, you, and I were drawn this year. Any chance we'll see a Superior race report? I know its a PIA.I am! Thanks for checking in BnB. Been just slammed on the home front dealing with some fires at work, kids back in school, and a wife that's working & back in school full time...yet again. I've been checking in on this thread here and there, just not as much as normal.
Had my labs re-tested two weeks out from Superior and they had all returned to normal, thus received the green light to resume activities. Unfortunately I've yet to do that.I've gotten out on a handful of runs, but have let life get the best of me and basically gotten in a dietary and exercise funk for the past month. Time to get back on track with diet and exercise, as this is the worst time of the year to get in a rut for me personally, living in Minnesota as the weather turns ####ty. What's on tap for you?
Have you tried gatorade on a training run? Nothing new on race day, so be sure to practice this if this is part of the plan. Yes, gatorade may do well for you post run, but that doesnt mean it will do well for you during the run.This is pretty much my plan - it's what I've practiced on my long runs the last couple months or so. Basically anything over 13 miles, I've taken my chews and my water bottles. I basically eat 1 gummy chew every mile +/- with a couple of swigs of drink to go with them - basically a mouthful of liquid when I put the chew in and another drink when I finish it to wash it down. I use the mile splits as a reminder to put the next one in if I haven't had one recently. For a while I was just drinking water with them but recently started added an electrolyte tablet thing to the water bottle also - adds a few more calories but more so the potassium, salt, etc. No idea how much it is a real help verses a mental one but I have liked them quite a bit.
My only issue is that at some point, I get tired of those damn gummies and just can't choke another one down! Come race day I plan to take advantage of the aid stations with Gatorade. Figure later in the race I can have one bottle filled with that and one filled with just water. That's basically what I've done recently on the long runs too - one bottle ends up with just water and one with a tablet in it.
How many calories in a gummy chew?This is pretty much my plan - it's what I've practiced on my long runs the last couple months or so. Basically anything over 13 miles, I've taken my chews and my water bottles. I basically eat 1 gummy chew every mile +/- with a couple of swigs of drink to go with them - basically a mouthful of liquid when I put the chew in and another drink when I finish it to wash it down. I use the mile splits as a reminder to put the next one in if I haven't had one recently. For a while I was just drinking water with them but recently started added an electrolyte tablet thing to the water bottle also - adds a few more calories but more so the potassium, salt, etc. No idea how much it is a real help verses a mental one but I have liked them quite a bit.I ate one or two chews at every mile starting at mile one. This lasted until about mile 15 or 16 I think. At that point I just didn’t want them anymore. But it was fine.
I drank the tailwind every time I saw an aid station. So I was able to stay away from the early crowded aid stations and stay hydrated. I did this until the tailwind was out. I then switched to water or gatorade the rest of the way. I just alternated each aid station.
My only issue is that at some point, I get tired of those damn gummies and just can't choke another one down! Come race day I plan to take advantage of the aid stations with Gatorade. Figure later in the race I can have one bottle filled with that and one filled with just water. That's basically what I've done recently on the long runs too - one bottle ends up with just water and one with a tablet in it.
It takes time to get into the system. You're not fueling at mile 1 for mile 1. You're fueling at mile 1 for mile 15.Can either of you explain why you start eating at mile 1? I would think that you would want to start around 60-75 minutes into the race.
I have - no issues ever before in/during running or other sports previously.Have you tried gatorade on a training run? Nothing new on race day, so be sure to practice this if this is part of the plan. Yes, gatorade may do well for you post run, but that doesnt mean it will do well for you during the run.
The math is what passes the time by...at least for us slow guys.The Iguana said:I originally just planned to run the first mile or 2 with the pacers just to keep me "in check". But it ended up working out really well for me. I did find myself doing far less math, which might be good or bad? Usually once I'd get my mile split, I'd start doing calculations on how far ahead/behind I was, what my current average is, what kind of pace I needed to run the rest to hit x, y, and/or z time, calculate the square root of 403928724, recite the numbers of pi to 37 digits... oh wait, there's the next mile marker - time to re-calibrate!
That's normal, right?
They are something like 3 pieces = 100 calories rather than a lot of the other fuel stuff being 100 calories for one dose so eating them ealier/more often seems to be the way to go.How many calories in a gummy chew?
Can either of you explain why you start eating at mile 1? I would think that you would want to start around 60-75 minutes into the race.
Outside of letting mother nature beat me in January 2018 I think waiting until I needed fueling was my biggest mistake for that spring marathon. Both in training and race day. 'Eat when you are hungry, drink when you are thirsty.' Nope. Doesnt work for me. Need to fuel based on anticipation, not current needs.They are something like 3 pieces = 100 calories rather than a lot of the other fuel stuff being 100 calories for one dose so eating them ealier/more often seems to be the way to go.
The one thing I do have to remember to do is to pre-open all the gummie packages before starting. Nothing worse than having sweaty hands struggling to tear the stupid wrapper open!
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The Iguana said:I really kind of a need a goal as I do these. Just kind of how I am wired. Also keeps me focused to "run smart" and not go do something dumb. It seems to be a bit of an art form to set the "right" goal. I want something realistic but not too easy.
That said, and to make this totally about me... After this past Saturday, I keep thinking a lot - probably too much - about how I'm going to start out the Monumental Marathon. I know I'm going to snuggle up next to a pacer to start, but I haven't fully decided which one I should find and run with. Kind of waffling back and forth between starting with the 3:40 group and going with the 3:45 group. Using the whole HM * 2.25 thing puts my potential time at ~3:42. Given I've never done one of these, going out with 3:50 might even be smarter but the stubborn part of me doesn't want to...
The Iguana said:3:45 probably is the smart move and I'm up for listening to sound advice. That was really my plan after the run Saturday but a couple days out I started to think "well, maybe...".
I'd give you far different advice that you've received thus far. Suffice to say that I don't fear failure and every one of these could be my last. I'm not short changing myself, especially repeatedly.The Iguana said:![]()
The only reason I considered 3:40 instead is that I feel like I almost short changed myself in 2 of the 3 HMs I've run with a true goal time in place. At Carmel and this past weekend I felt like I had "more in me" if I had been shooting for it. Carmel I probably had a brief moment of doubt around 10 or 11 miles if I think back on it carefully but for the most part I felt like I "left some on the course" if you know what I mean. Same this past weekend - I feel confident that I could have pushed a little more.
That said, I keep reminding myself that this is far more like my first HM this time last year when I really had not idea what I was about to face and only really cared about finishing first and letting the time take care of itself. I've done 20 miles a couple times and both left me thinking "6.2 more is nuts!" - first time worse than the 2nd one but still.
And I like to think too much anyway and have a month to do so right now...
Looks like about perfect dosing. If you are adding in tailwind or gatorade then you could be over consuming. I'd probably hold off until mile 4-6 with the chews or even a Gu at the hour mark and then start the one gummy a mile. I don't think you are getting much benefit from the early ones and slightly delaying the routine might allow you to not get tired of them on the back end.They are something like 3 pieces = 100 calories rather than a lot of the other fuel stuff being 100 calories for one dose so eating them ealier/more often seems to be the way to go.
Eight salted caramel GUs, one each at mile 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, 15, 17.5, 20, and 22.5. Drink at EVERY aid station, alternate water and Gatorade.Four salted caramel GUs, one each at mile 5, 10, 15, and 20. Drink at EVERY aid station, alternate water and Gatorade.
I'm all for differing advice... I do a crappy job of listening/following through half the time anyway so multiple different theories plays to my favor to get someone to tell me what I want to hear!I'd give you far different advice that you've received thus far. Suffice to say that I don't fear failure and every one of these could be my last. I'm not short changing myself, especially repeatedly.
This spring I had a half on Sat and a full on Sun. My time for the half was 2:20. Goal for the marathon was 5:00, 2x my half plus 20. Start off lagging just behind the 4:45 pace group. Wanted to bank some time in case the wheels feel off my tired legs. Lost sight of them on the first bigger hill. Caught up with them on the flat and passed them on the downhill around mile 7-8 and left them behind. They caught back up to me over the next 5 miles. Only two people left with two pacers now so I hooked on. Coming up on the halfway point and there's a major climb. I'm now the last one with them but let them go on the back end of this mile climb. Pretty strange to see them running by themselves in a middle of a race. Earth starts tilting down and I catch them and them put them out of sight. About mile 18 they catch me again. I run with them to about mile 20 when the pace is just too much. They get about 200 yards ahead of me with a 1.5 to go. Ran them down with a final kick at the line.I'm all for differing advice... I do a crappy job of listening/following through half the time anyway so multiple different theories plays to my favor to get someone to tell me what I want to hear!
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I am not certain of this at all, 1 or 2 miles of this isn't a big deal but 13 miles would be.I can guarantee 11.5 seconds a mile isn't going to be the difference between having a great race and blowing up and walking the last 6 miles.
11.5 seconds a mile is a BIG deal.I am not certain of this at all, 1 or 2 miles of this isn't a big deal but 13 miles would be.
I am not certain of this at all, 1 or 2 miles of this isn't a big deal but 13 miles would be.
Yeah, it's not like an ultra where you KNOW you're gonna have rough patches and there's plenty of time to recover and rally.![]()
You can always speed up. Once you've over done it though. It's over. Nothing you can do.
At your pace or the guys close to an hour slower than you?11.5 seconds a mile is a BIG deal.I am not certain of this at all, 1 or 2 miles of this isn't a big deal but 13 miles would be.
Well this is true. You also can't re-run the race if you leave time out there. The ultimate dilemma.![]()
You can always speed up. Once you've over done it though. It's over. Nothing you can do.
Which strategy is the right one? Depends on goals and comfort level with failure. I chose the reckless abandoned route with my debut, but I was comfortable with failure because I knew I would do another one. BQ or bust. And I busted. Spectacularly.
I've been crafting my responses to him based on this possibly being his only one. He's made it clear throughout that it may be. So I don't get the sense a riskier approach resulting in failure will be met as a learning opportunity/positive for next time. Have a successful debut, perhaps leaving time out there, then being hungry for more...like a good drug dealer.Well this is true. You also can't re-run the race if you leave time out there. The ultimate dilemma.
Very Good point.I've been crafting my responses to him based on this possibly being his only one. He's made it clear throughout that it may be. So I don't get the sense a riskier approach resulting in failure will be met as a learning opportunity/positive for next time. Have a successful debut, perhaps leaving time out there, then being hungry for more...like a good drug dealer.
Let’s say he is in 3:35 shape (very low probability)At your pace or the guys close to an hour slower than you?
It's 2%. According to Kupp at CTS, your fuel belt is going to slow you about that. Heck, the outcome of your dump in the morning is worth 1/2 of that.
Dude, you finished Umstead didn't you? I thought you did, and if so, finishing a 100 isn't a "fail." C'mon now. Some WS luck would definitely pull me outta my funk, but in order to be at peak for a race like WS I can't go in the tank for 3 months over the balance of this year and then try to overtrain out of it over the following 6 months to get ready for WS. So, I'm drawing on some will power right now to snap out.Well that's great news on the health front. Maybe some WS lottery luck would help with the funk. Would be awesome if Duck, you, and I were drawn this year. Any chance we'll see a Superior race report? I know its a PIA.
Indiana 100 tomorrow for me and if that goes well then Tunnel Hill in 4 weeks. Lottery wise for 2020...
Amsted 100 - Fail
Mt. Mitchell - Success
Barkley 50k/Marathon - Fail
https://my4.raceresult.com/137277/#0_32DBB4 if you want to follow this weekend.
Bib 232
It's like kindergarten compared to Superior.
I meant I came up a loser (fail) in the 2020 lottery for Umstead and Barkley.Dude, you finished Umstead didn't you? I thought you did, and if so, finishing a 100 isn't a "fail." C'mon now. Some WS luck would definitely pull me outta my funk, but in order to be at peak for a race like WS I can't go in the tank for 3 months over the balance of this year and then try to overtrain out of it over the following 6 months to get ready for WS. So, I'm drawing on some will power right now to snap out.
I'll definitely be following tomorrow! I thought you had something upcoming but couldn't remember what it was. Also, I'll be curious to hear about Tunnel Hill. That's awesome that you're in that one too, as that'll check off your qualifier for 2021 right?
Well good luck! Just running this weekend to run or any goals in mind? If goals in mind, please share! And apologies if you've already posted on that...
Forgot one...Let’s say he is in 3:35 shape (very low probability)
He runs the first half in 3:45 pace (1:52:30) and the 2nd half to his true ability 1:47:30- 1 minute because he ran the 1st half so conservative. He finishes 3:39:00 we cost him 4 minutes but I am sure he would have a blast the 2nd half of the race.
He is in 3:40 shape
He runs the first half in 3:45 pace (1:52:30) and the 2nd half to his true ability 1:50- 30 secs because he ran the 1st half conservative. He finishes 3:42:00 we cost him 2 minutes but I am sure he would have a blast the 2nd half of the race.
He is in 3:45 shape
He runs the first half in 3:45 pace (1:52:30) and the 2nd half the same and finishes in 3:45.
He is in 3:50 shape
He runs the first half in 3:45 pace (1:52:30) and the 2nd half in 2:05 for a 3:57:30. Marathons are hard.
Ahhhh, that makes a ton more sense. UTMB would be awesome. Definitely on a longer term list for me though.I meant I came up a loser (fail) in the 2020 lottery for Umstead and Barkley.
2019 Umsted gave me WS qualifier. Trying to get two UMTB qualifiers done this year. Since I boned Burning River, I've got to do one this month and one next. Tunnel Hill checks off UMTB and WS 2021.
Five 20 mile loops. Need to go 4/5/6/7/8 to make the 30 hour cutoff. I'd like to go sub 27 to beat my Umstead time, but I'm not sure how to even plan for that. I know nothing about the course. It's almost pointless making a race plan when you haven't run a course. Terrain and technicality are the biggest drivers. The elevation gain appears to be the same as Amsted but the profile is choppier.
I don't think there is even a 1% chance of that happening. Honestly, it would be a stupid thing to attempt.So now that @Juxtatarot has scuffled his way through...well, basically the whole year nowhere near 100%. He's going to pr Sunday isn't he?
I agree with Juxt - he won't PR ...but he won't walk off the course, either. He'll push through a strong race and BMF the last couple of miles.So now that @Juxtatarot has scuffled his way through...well, basically the whole year nowhere near 100%. He's going to pr Sunday isn't he?
Weren't you gimpy going into Carmel too? Or did that not really worsen until after?I don't think there is even a 1% chance of that happening. Honestly, it would be a stupid thing to attempt.
No idea what my "race weight" is. A little over a year ago I was 235. Right now I'm about 192, which is the least I've weighed since sometime in about 1998, literally.@The Iguana Are you currently at your race weight?
I was a little gimpy near the end but it didn't affect my training as much as this time. I was definitely in PR shape for Carmel and was in PR or bust mode mentally. I know I'm not in as good of shape this time.Weren't you gimpy going into Carmel too? Or did that not really worsen until after?
@The Iguana Are you currently at your race weight?
I've posted this a couple of times... this is my progression over the last year+:No idea what my "race weight" is. A little over a year ago I was 235. Right now I'm about 192, which is the least I've weighed since sometime in about 1998, literally.
I was 192 this morning also.I've posted this a couple of times... this is my progression over the last year+:
7/1: 235
8/1: 232
9/1: 230
10/1: 229
11/1: 224
12/1: 222
1/1: 219
2/1: 213
3/1: 205
4/1: 200
5/1: 199
6/2: 200
7/1: 199
8/1: 198
9/1: 196
10/1: 192
I have a dream of getting down to about 185 or so but there's nothing magic about that number.
Congrats. That’s a great accomplishment. Also that is going to significantly impact your paceCongrats. That’s a great accomplishment. Also that is going to significantly impact your paceI've posted this a couple of times... this is my progression over the last year+:
7/1: 235
8/1: 232
9/1: 230
10/1: 229
11/1: 224
12/1: 222
1/1: 219
2/1: 213
3/1: 205
4/1: 200
5/1: 199
6/2: 200
7/1: 199
8/1: 198
9/1: 196
10/1: 192
I have a dream of getting down to about 185 or so but there's nothing magic about that number.
It's on!I was 192 this morning also.
I'll enthusiastically race you to 185!!!!
U have a Chicago pr to chase?I was a little gimpy near the end but it didn't affect my training as much as this time. I was definitely in PR shape for Carmel and was in PR or bust mode mentally. I know I'm not in as good of shape this time.
241 (and more just not sure how much more)I've posted this a couple of times... this is my progression over the last year+:
7/1: 235
........
10/1: 192
I have a dream of getting down to about 185 or so but there's nothing magic about that number.
holy crap, dude! Wow!241 (and more just not sure how much more)
157.7
I win!![]()
That would be 2:58:20. If everything is going great, maybe I'd go for that but, honestly, that's not a big deal. I just want to run a good, smart race.U have a Chicago pr to chase?
I hope you come out it healthyThat would be 2:58:20. If everything is going great, maybe I'd go for that but, honestly, that's not a big deal. I just want to run a good, smart race.