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Now is great time to start. For fall marathons, I view June as the month where I do the training so I can do the training. 18 weeks out from November is around mid July, so June is all about building momentum and getting acclimated to the heat.
Ok. Thanks for trickling out the details one post at a time.
I definitely have a "sweet spot" easy pace that I will tend to revert to even if I repeatedly try to slow myself down.
Man, this hits home lately for me.I definitely have a "sweet spot" easy pace that I will tend to revert to even if I repeatedly try to slow myself down.
The talk of efficiency reminds me of a conclusion that I was tentatively coming to in the lead up to my HM. Endurance running is basically a giant physics problem, and if you look at all of those race calculators, their big assumption is that energy expended to run a particular pace will increase in a predictable fashion as one speeds up. I'm sure that's true on the whole, but a particular individual might have a pace vs. energy curve that is unusual.
I think for myself I am really inefficient at my HM pace and that has led to my frustration with trying to improve at that distance. If I look at my training runs, I can run HM+1:00-1:15 for more than 1hr and keep my HR in the 140s if the weather is decent. Intervals (~HM-1:00-1:10) will get my HR in the upper 170s or lower 180s. You would expect HM pace to be around the middle, but I notice I get into the upper 160s and lower 170s pretty quickly. This matches with the perceived effort, as it doesn't feel that much harder to run a 5K pace vs. a tempo. Further, I noticed that the VO2Max that Garmin spits out is always highest for interval workouts and long runs, whereas it will spit out a lower number after any tempo. To me, it all points towards my most efficient paces being 5K and my go to "easyish" pace, and I've got a no man's land in between that my body sucks at running.
I suspect I'm not the only one in the thread with this issue, but I'm not quite sure what to do about it. Ironically, years ago when I was training more stupidly with most of my runs probably being too fast, I think that helped improve my HM pace efficiency, which is probably why I overperformed with respect to the calculators and aerobic base I had for my first few HMs. Maybe I need to just bite the bullet and do more tempo runs, but I do hate them, and also worry about getting injured if I do too much fast running.
I believe similar to me you were doing other sports with aerobic characteristics before you got into running, yes? I played pickup basketball pretty regularly in my very early running days, and I think those "hidden" workouts gave me a lot of fitness boost, despite not showing up on a mileage chart. Wish I could get back into it but all of the guys I used to play with got old/injured. I've started doing weight training again - maybe that will help things a bit. I figure at the very least it's good for general health anyway.
Well, I used to play a lot of sports when younger, but no, not when I started running.
Yeah …bite the bullet, if you want to improve at the longer race distances. Tempo runs; progression runs; long intervals (mile or even two mile repeats). The muscles need to adapt to longer distance/stronger pace. I don’t see why any of this would necessarily cause injury …I think that’s just you talking yourself out of doing that training. Probably good to add one or two sessions per week with some of this focus.I definitely have a "sweet spot" easy pace that I will tend to revert to even if I repeatedly try to slow myself down.
The talk of efficiency reminds me of a conclusion that I was tentatively coming to in the lead up to my HM. Endurance running is basically a giant physics problem, and if you look at all of those race calculators, their big assumption is that energy expended to run a particular pace will increase in a predictable fashion as one speeds up. I'm sure that's true on the whole, but a particular individual might have a pace vs. energy curve that is unusual.
I think for myself I am really inefficient at my HM pace and that has led to my frustration with trying to improve at that distance. If I look at my training runs, I can run HM+1:00-1:15 for more than 1hr and keep my HR in the 140s if the weather is decent. Intervals (~HM-1:00-1:10) will get my HR in the upper 170s or lower 180s. You would expect HM pace to be around the middle, but I notice I get into the upper 160s and lower 170s pretty quickly. This matches with the perceived effort, as it doesn't feel that much harder to run a 5K pace vs. a tempo. Further, I noticed that the VO2Max that Garmin spits out is always highest for interval workouts and long runs, whereas it will spit out a lower number after any tempo. To me, it all points towards my most efficient paces being 5K and my go to "easyish" pace, and I've got a no man's land in between that my body sucks at running.
I suspect I'm not the only one in the thread with this issue, but I'm not quite sure what to do about it. Ironically, years ago when I was training more stupidly with most of my runs probably being too fast, I think that helped improve my HM pace efficiency, which is probably why I overperformed with respect to the calculators and aerobic base I had for my first few HMs. Maybe I need to just bite the bullet and do more tempo runs, but I do hate them, and also worry about getting injured if I do too much fast running.
The half marathon is my weakest distance per the running calculators, but from my perspective your HM time is strong at the mileage you run. At age 34 I needed to run around 50% more miles than you to beat your half PR.I definitely have a "sweet spot" easy pace that I will tend to revert to even if I repeatedly try to slow myself down.
The talk of efficiency reminds me of a conclusion that I was tentatively coming to in the lead up to my HM. Endurance running is basically a giant physics problem, and if you look at all of those race calculators, their big assumption is that energy expended to run a particular pace will increase in a predictable fashion as one speeds up. I'm sure that's true on the whole, but a particular individual might have a pace vs. energy curve that is unusual.
I think for myself I am really inefficient at my HM pace and that has led to my frustration with trying to improve at that distance. If I look at my training runs, I can run HM+1:00-1:15 for more than 1hr and keep my HR in the 140s if the weather is decent. Intervals (~HM-1:00-1:10) will get my HR in the upper 170s or lower 180s. You would expect HM pace to be around the middle, but I notice I get into the upper 160s and lower 170s pretty quickly. This matches with the perceived effort, as it doesn't feel that much harder to run a 5K pace vs. a tempo. Further, I noticed that the VO2Max that Garmin spits out is always highest for interval workouts and long runs, whereas it will spit out a lower number after any tempo. To me, it all points towards my most efficient paces being 5K and my go to "easyish" pace, and I've got a no man's land in between that my body sucks at running.
I suspect I'm not the only one in the thread with this issue, but I'm not quite sure what to do about it. Ironically, years ago when I was training more stupidly with most of my runs probably being too fast, I think that helped improve my HM pace efficiency, which is probably why I overperformed with respect to the calculators and aerobic base I had for my first few HMs. Maybe I need to just bite the bullet and do more tempo runs, but I do hate them, and also worry about getting injured if I do too much fast running.
When I'm ready to add back speed after a period of easier running (like now, actually), I start by doing strides a couple of times a week after easier runs. Just 6 x 20 seconds with plenty of rest in between.
Speaking of which, it's gonna be interesting going from basically all easy running to trying to run fast three separate times in a span of about 8-9 hours next weekend...
Maybe my expectations are unrealistic (wouldn't be the first time). On the other hand, my PR was set at ~70% of the mileage of this latest cycle, and I ran ~3 minutes slower on less than half of the mileage. I was a few pounds heavier this time around (not sure why as I didn't really change my diet, and somehow I lost those pounds after the race when I was running less). I'm sure running 40+ per week for months would help my times, but I'm not yet there mentally. I'm still in the hoping to have my cake and eat it too phase.
Sorry I respond to every groin post you make, damn google key word alerts. I have perhaps dozens of posts on this injury topic buried in here and have done all from ignore to rest to PT to strength. Rest for a bit took the edge off which was necessary, but I found similar to other stubborn running ailments to tendons, strengthening was the key. Lots of rehab type exercises for adductors and strengthening for core and glutes. Then adductor strengthening.
yep... when I joined this thread a few years ago, I was WAAAYYYY out of shape and overweight. Almost everything I did was a "new PR" at least if not considering my HS days, etc. And there's a lot of motivation in 'pushing the envelope'. Now that I've had this huge backslide, everything seems a lot harder but I am sure a lot of it is comparing what I can do today to what I worked my way up to. It's hard to capture that fire again when you are so far from 'peak'.
What you're describing is exactly why I usually run with music. Instead of negative thoughts I'm singing a cappella off key as neighbors, strangers, and my embarrassed kids with their friends pass by.
Do whatever I did between 2016 and 2020. Don't do what I've done the last 2 years. But, yes, this is how to increase your speed. There is injury risk though. Gotta be comfortable with it and be willing to adapt as curveballs are thrown before executing any plan. Then most importantly when there are warning signs, listen. This is the hardest part though. There's a subtle difference between hurt and injured, which is difficult for self assessment purposes.
I appreciate your responses, with hernia ruled out I’m confident this a muscle thing and looking for ideas on how to improve it.
While the muscles around the problem are the short term priority it's important to build a change every 8 weeks or so regimen that hits every muscle group for long term sustainability. Start small and basic then expand/adapt if you a) want to and b) if your body says you need to.
Do it. I know back when I used to run I would calculate those heart rate zones and there is a pretty wide variance there. I'm similar - my easy run HR can vary between about 135 and 155 based on those calculated zones.
MAC_32 said:
CliffsNotes version - Gonna be warm and humid, so I'm gonna complain a lot. @gianmarcowill probably collapse in the grass at some point, and we'll end up leaving him behind because we won't have time to wait for him. @tri-man 47is gonna try to rub people's sweaty feet.
Alright, here goes (blows out).....
