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Those are the 2 names I keep hearing
Either him or Rocco.
Yuck. It's either the guy who can't take a walk and can't stay healthy or the guy who can't take a walk and doesn't offer anything useful with his personality that would benefit a clubhouse or society.
Not epic (think Kazmir for Zambrano, at least Crawford has a lot of talent), but certainly a good deal for the Rays.Hill becomes their 2nd best pitcher and Marmol becomes their most reliable bullpen arm.
2007 VORP:Crawford: 38.0Hill: 40.3Marmol: 34.5Would be a great deal for the Rays. For the Cubs? Not so much.
Well I guess VORP decides it then. Steal of the century. You have got to be kidding me.Rich Hill would be overvalued big time as an AL starter and if you are depending on that number to call it a steal, I almost can't believe you are serious.2007 VORP:Crawford: 38.0Hill: 40.3Marmol: 34.5Would be a great deal for the Rays. For the Cubs? Not so much.
I bet I saw 60 to 70 % of the Cubs' games last year and what I saw of Pie I liked. The thing about Wrigley is that it is so small you don't really need a pure centerfielder in center. He's a lightning fast lefty with a little pop - kinda like Crawford. I have to believe that if they are going after Crawford it's going to be to play with Pie not instead of him. As far as where they'd bat either of them, who knows. The Soriano lead off stuff has got to go. If it's to hide his strikeouts I'd rather see that in the 5 hole where the HRs aren't always solo jobs. Marmol is fantastic to be sure but Hill I'm not so sure about. He really gets down and blatanty pouts on the mound when things aren't going his way. I really wouldn't mind sending him to the AL. Don't think I'd trade him to the Cards, though.
Crawford has a club option through 2010 for fairly short money by industry standards. However Hill and Marmol are not going to be making much money until around 2012 too. That's two more pitchers they would need to sign. I can see why they may not want to do it.Statorama said:
Thanks JtC. So it appears money isn't a huge factor in this deal.The Cubs really need a leadoff hitter, but I don't see how this guy is any different than Soriano. Crawford strikes out at an over 3 to 1 rate, with a big jump in K's last year without a corresponding rise in walks. He does, however, fit the MO of the Cubs, who like to bring in "fantasy" type players.
Hill and Marmol is a pretty good offer. Marmol alone gives them a presence in the pen they have never had.
I agree. I think it's a fine offer. I think Crawford would be a nice fit in Wrigley for 80 or so games. As a Cubs fan I have a hard time giving up such a gem in Marmol but I can do without Hill (famous last words of a Cubs fan). The strikeouts will be off the charts in Wrigley with Soriano and Crawford at the front of that order, though.
How many of his games have you gotten to see? Are you in the area? If he is that bad and they give up Marmol I'm rooting for the Astros. I am so sick of the Cubs getting rid of talent for pipe-dreams.
I watch a lot of baseball and Crawford plays in the same division as my team (Bosox). He's a really exciting player to watch but in terms of statistical production, he's not nearly as good as he is flashy. One of those kinds of guys you love to watch play, but wonder if he's actually helping your team that much.
While this may be true, I think the Rays would be much closer to competing in the East next year with Kazmir/Shields/Hill throwing 1-3, and Marmol joining Reyes and Wheeler to give them the makings of a serviceable bullpen. Then, you can see what you have from McGee, Davis, Niemmann, Talbot, and possibly even Price from the 4-5 slots. That would also allow the Rays to go through with the Longoria to 3rd, Iwamura to 2nd, Upton to CF, Baldelli to LF realignment. If the Rays did decide to move Crawford, I really think acquiring these two has a good chance of helping the team take the next step forward.
Fine prospects, but I doubt all of them are better than Hill. Hill was 6th in the NL in K/9, 8th in WHIP, and a .659 OPS against. He's not an ace, but he's a very solid pitcher. Bill James is extremely high on him in his 2008 projections. If all of those guys are better than Hill, the Rays are going to be tough next year.Edit: Also from everything I've heard, this is dead as a doornail.
No way the Cubs make this deal.With Dempster returning to the starting rotation, why get rid of the heir apparent? Hill is also a young guy who has shown at times to be unhittable. I like Crawford but giving up quality pitching right now is not a smart move.
The problem is they aren't really aiming for competing in 2008, but 2009. I know Hill had good numbers, but projecting his numbers to the AL East is at best problematic though Marmol has electric stuff. I still think they should just do the status quo this year and work McGee, Davis, and Price into the rotation and sign a couple of cheap Japanese bully arms since there are about 5 or 6 of those guys who want to come over this year. There bully is their big Achilles heal and until they fix it, it won't really matter who starts.
True, but Hill has also used up 2 of his cost controlled years.. The only real reason you'd do that deal is if you wanted to compete in 2008 and thought Hill could adjust well, though that HR rate would have me more than a little concerned. If they do, then the deal makes much more sense. I still think they'd be better served as using 2008 as a time to see which of the youngsters is MLB quality especially since they'll have an offense that will keep them in some games, so they shouldn't get too blugeoned.
