RB Aaron Jones, MIN (8 Viewers)

[Bojang0301]

But for fantasy purposes I believe it was FBG that did an analysis and the best RB fantasy seasons were NOT tied to stud QB play. For whatever reasons, above average but not stud-like numbers from the QB were more conducive to RB points. That being said, there are plenty of RB points to be had in GB - especially after last year's usage where one guy consistently got 80%+ of the RB snaps. 

From the article: "And with Ty Montgomery returning from an injured wrist in 2018, Williams knows his place on the depth chart can be taken away if he doesn't continue to get better."

Which implies Williams is at the top of the depth chart. 

Guess we’ll see. If I’m ratcheting down the schtick I would say I don’t like carrying backs like Williams on my dynasty rosters. Redraft is fine. I think the best you’re hoping for with him is a Benjarvis Green-Ellis career with a better recieving game. If the best thing you have going for you is volume and you’re surrounded by three backs who are more athletically inclined then you, that back is in trouble. 

 

[FF Ninja]

Here we go with the "scouting" again.  Nice attempt at making fantasy football less nerdy.   

As for Jones - and I already had the thread  'ed, so I may have already said this - I watched the guy single-handedly rip apart what was a pretty good UT Longhorn run D while he was at UTEP.  He destroyed them... with not much else around him.  Granted he had what ended up being a potential studly OL in Will Hernandez but everything else around him was second/third-rate.  

Interesting battle here, I wouldn't be shocked if no one emerges.

The Longhorns have been awful for almost a decade so calling their defense pretty good is... pretty optimistic. I looked up that game and Jones went 18/123/1 with a 51 yard run. So outside of that long run he wasn't exactly ripping them apart and I definitely wouldn't say he "destroyed them." However, you are correct that whatever he did was basically single-handedly, as the QB play was apparently pitiful. Although, I watched his snaps from that game and his 51 yard run was completely untouched. He didn't even have to make any moves. He just ran straight. I like Jones as a talent, but after watching every play of his from that game, I can't say his performance in that game was impressive.

 

[FF Ninja]

Guess we’ll see. If I’m ratcheting down the schtick I would say I don’t like carrying backs like Williams on my dynasty rosters. Redraft is fine. I think the best you’re hoping for with him is a Benjarvis Green-Ellis career with a better recieving game. If the best thing you have going for you is volume and you’re surrounded by three backs who are more athletically inclined then you, that back is in trouble. 

I'll just leave this here for you: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/arian-foster/

 

[Interseptopus]

2018 preview: Aaron Jones

 

[Bojang0301]

I'll just leave this here for you: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/arian-foster/

I don’t pretend outliers are somehow the norm. Arian Foster and Priest Holmes are uber-rare. Plus there would have to be statistical correlation to suggest what you're suggesting. If you want an anomoly you’d be better of chasing Chris Carson, Elijah McGuire or Alex Collins. 

 

[FF Ninja]

I don’t pretend outliers are somehow the norm. Arian Foster and Priest Holmes are uber-rare. Plus there would have to be statistical correlation to suggest what you're suggesting. If you want an anomoly you’d be better of chasing Chris Carson, Elijah McGuire or Alex Collins. 

Elijah McGuire 

I'll take JW over five McGuires. 

Look, I'm not saying to throw out combine results but they're just one piece. I used Foster just to remind you of that. There are a lot of current guys with less than stellar combines... Freeman, Howard, CJA, Gore, Hunt, Dalvin. I'm guilty myself for letting Dalvin's combine scare me off of him. I don't like spending high picks on guys with questionable combines, but I don't have anything against a later pick or rostering them once they've shown NFL ability. 

JW was running into some stacked boxes last year. I know everyone in this thread wants to think the 3.6 ypc is because his combine sucked, but I'd be willing to bet he's well over 4 ypc with Rodgers behind center this year. 

Either way, this will be a very interesting training camp battle since all three players (JW, Jones, Ty) are talented but with very different playing styles and physical builds. 

 

[Football Jones]

Is it that easy to add 15 pounds of healthy weight in two months? Training camp generally sees players dropping weight in the heat and with tough workouts. 

You're on the right path to question this. It takes YEARS to add a lot of muscle mass. You can load up on supplements like creatine (which is a viable supplement), but what you gain over the course of a few months is essentially just water weight.

Nobody, & I mean nobody, can gain 15 pounds of muscle in a few months. Even under the best of circumstances & using steroids, it would take much, much longer to add a lot of genuine muscle.

The thought that Jones could add enough muscle in a few months to change his physical makeup enough to make a noticeable difference in his actual play is preposterous. He could definitely gain 15 pounds in that timespan, but it's likely only going to slow him down.

 

[Interseptopus]

Elijah McGuire 

I'll take JW over five McGuires. 

Look, I'm not saying to throw out combine results but they're just one piece. I used Foster just to remind you of that. There are a lot of current guys with less than stellar combines... Freeman, Howard, CJA, Gore, Hunt, Dalvin. I'm guilty myself for letting Dalvin's combine scare me off of him. I don't like spending high picks on guys with questionable combines, but I don't have anything against a later pick or rostering them once they've shown NFL ability. 

JW was running into some stacked boxes last year. I know everyone in this thread wants to think the 3.6 ypc is because his combine sucked, but I'd be willing to bet he's well over 4 ypc with Rodgers behind center this year. 

Either way, this will be a very interesting training camp battle since all three players (JW, Jones, Ty) are talented but with very different playing styles and physical builds. 

I think you meant Jones for the bolded, not JW... 

Games with Aaron Rodgers playing. Excluding MIN where he got hurt 

Jamaal Williams: 20 carries, 43 yards, 2.2 ypc

Aaron Jones: 35 carries, 221 yards, 6.3 ypc

 

[FF Ninja]

I think you meant Jones for the bolded, not JW... 

Games with Aaron Rodgers playing. Excluding MIN where he got hurt 

Jamaal Williams: 20 carries, 43 yards, 2.2 ypc

Aaron Jones: 35 carries, 221 yards, 6.3 ypc

No, I meant JW. He never got a shot as a workhorse with Rodgers healthy. He will in 2018.

 

[Interseptopus]

No, I meant JW. He never got a shot as a workhorse with Rodgers healthy. He will in 2018.

Against Carolina he got the chance, and he was at 3.0 ypc. In that same game Jones was at 15.7

Based on the sample size, it seems Williams is a better RB for a QB of Brett Hundley's talents

 

[FF Ninja]

Against Carolina he got the chance, and he was at 3.0 ypc. In that same game Jones was at 15.7

Based on the sample size, it seems Williams is a better RB for a QB of Brett Hundley's talents

Robot voice: Invalid argument. Sample size insufficient. 

 

[Football Jones]

There's something to be said for simply adding 15 pounds of mass (weight), but it would make Jones a completely different RB. To the point you would have to "rescout" him.

There are people who can undergo a pretty big transformation in a few months (those who are overweight), but not NFL skill-position players. They typically have a low BF% which makes quick transformations impossible. An extra-conservative estimate is at least 90% (probably a lot higher) of Jones' weight gain would be considered "bad" weight for a RB.

It's very likely a futile attempt at trying to be something he's not (similar to Williams losing a fair amount of weight if true) & it's quite possible it not only wouldn't help him, but would have a detrimental effect.

 

[barackdhouse]

 

[Interseptopus]

Notes from press conference with packers coaches

Aaron Jones may establish himself as the lead back during training camp.

With a 5.5 yard average per carry as a rookie, Jones provided speed and elusiveness to the well-blended Packers backfield. As a sophomore in the Green Bay system, Green Bay is looking for Jones to take a step forward after an offseason of commitment to strength and conditioning.

While Running Backs Coach Ben Sirmans says that he won’t have a full feel for Jones’ new strength until pads come on in training camp, he was certain of Jones’ jump. He labeled lower-body strength as the weakest part of Jones’ game as a rookie, but mentioned his work in that area and the durability that comes with it. Sirmans estimated that Jones had gained about five to ten pounds in the offseason, but was not worried about that extra weight negatively impacting his performance or reactionary skills. In fact, Sirmans was excited about the extra strength Jones will gain to pair with his efficient running style that is lower to the ground and avoids big hits.

In minicamps, Sirmans has looked for cognitive development in his three players - Jones, Jamaal Williams, and Devante Mays - who are making the jump from year one to year two. He noted that all have improved in this capacity and in their reactionary speed and ability to retain information. But with Jones’ effectiveness as a rookie, the second-year back seems to be turning a corner and could assert himself as the starter as soon as training camp.

 

[Football Jones]

Notes from press conference with packers coaches

5 or 10 pounds is much more reasonable (compared to the 15 that was mentioned in this thread). You can definitely get slightly stronger in a few months, but with NFL players who should already be on a proven strength program, it's really slow going as far as a single offseason.

The lack of strength in his lower body the RB coach was referring to is telling for feature backs. Can Jones get strong enough to make a difference without losing what dynamic ability he does have (which is already questionable for his size)?

That's the question.

 

[Football Jones]

I'm also confused by the thought Jones is a great athlete. His Combine performance was good, but not indicative of a freak athlete, ESPECIALLY for his size.

Jones' 3-cone & jumps were among the best for his position, but he doesn't show that kind of escapability & explosion on the field. He also lacks long speed with a 4.56 40 (at 208).

Jones MIGHT have enough ability to be a short-term feature back if someone else doesn't emerge. That's best case scenario, IMO.

I can't wait to get a further look at their RB situation this summer. Very interesting.

 

[Run It Up]

I cant have been the only one to have watched Jones in college? Where is this lack of ability talk coming from?

 

[Football Jones]

I cant have been the only one to have watched Jones in college? Where is this lack of ability talk coming from?

I wouldn't say it's a lack of ability, but he just doesn't have enough juice for his size, IMO. Jones isn't very physical, not particularly elusive, & doesn't have plus speed which is something that would help offset not having the other attributes.

I think he's got some natural talent, but I believe Jones is the kind of RB who will be dethroned by a true feature back-type at some point even if he does happen to win the starting job.

 

[Chaka]

I cant have been the only one to have watched Jones in college? Where is this lack of ability talk coming from?

Ability at UTEP and ability in the NFL are not the same thing. People have similar questions about Rashaad Penny. I like Jones but understand the skepticism.

 

[grateful zed]

wholly over analysis batman.

 

[Football Jones]

And anecdotally as a gym rat, I've only ever seen people put on anything close to one pound per week when they're just starting out and have a lot of ground to gain or when they used to lift and quit for a long time. 

I somehow missed your post, but another gym rat here & you're absolutely correct. Personally, I highly doubt a solid pound of actual muscle can be gained in a week (probably a lot less), but if anyone can do it, it's young males with good genetics who are first starting out.

That's why I mentioned earlier that for an NFL player already on a proven strength & conditioning program (as well as his time in college), the going is REALLY slow, especially without steroids.

 

[Run It Up]

Ability at UTEP and ability in the NFL are not the same thing. People have similar questions about Rashaad Penny. I like Jones but understand the skepticism.

Ive just seen no reason to suspect he lacks pedigree. Its one thing to say he was taken a round later than Williams. Its another to say he lacks ability.

And as far as the school thing goes, the same was true for the best RB in the history of the universe Danny Woodhead. But because of the school he went to, his size and his skin color he went undrafted. All those things being true anyome who had seen him play could have told you he had the talent necessary to succeed in the NFL. 

Im not saying Jones is a world beater and if they draft tomorrows Todd Gurley i imagine he would get supplanted, but until then i think he is handily the best RB on that team - ability or otherwise.

 

[mcintyre1]

Ive just seen no reason to suspect he lacks pedigree. Its one thing to say he was taken a round later than Williams. Its another to say he lacks ability.

And as far as the school thing goes, the same was true for the best RB in the history of the universe Danny Woodhead. But because of the school he went to, his size and his skin color he went undrafted. All those things being true anyome who had seen him play could have told you he had the talent necessary to succeed in the NFL. 

Im not saying Jones is a world beater and if they draft tomorrows Todd Gurley i imagine he would get supplanted, but until then i think he is handily the best RB on that team - ability or otherwise.

Woodhead was in a whole different realm as an athlete compared to Jones, though. He had the small school domination (not just good numbers, record setting numbers) combined with top tier athleticism. 

Again, that's not to say that Jones can't be successful in the NFL (obviously he already has been in a small sample size), but a 5th rounder from UTEP with good but not amazing college production and non-special athleticism can certainly be considered to "lack pedigree."  So does Williams.  For all the talk back and forth on Jones vs Williams, I think it is fairly likely that neither becomes a long term starter for the Packers.

 

[voiceofunreason]

wholly over analysis batman.

Yeah this thread is a train wreck.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I read that Williams was running ahead of Jones at practice.  3rd on the depth chart is pretty deep.

 

[Biabreakable]

I cant have been the only one to have watched Jones in college? Where is this lack of ability talk coming from?

Out of willful ignorance along the way to making up more stuff that is incorrect.

Sigh.

 

[Football Jones]

Out of willful ignorance along the way to making up more stuff that is incorrect.

Sigh.

I haven’t seen any of the Jones naysayers, including myself, making anything up.

Jones is a marginal NFL starting RB talent by quit a few folks’ evaluation. Nobody said Jones doesn’t have ability, but I cringe at the thought someone thinks he’s a can’t-miss prospect. It’s absolutely absurd.

Jones reminds me of a lot of the stuff I heard from people who were high on Abdullah. Abdullah simply didn’t have enough lead in his pants for his skill set. Although Jones is slightly bigger, he’s very similar to Abdullah.

That’s what happens when you rely too much on metrics. Everybody misses, but the metric emphasis tends to be much less accurate than putting the majority of the emphasis on eyeball scouting.

I believe Jones has enough ability to be a short-term feature back if nobody else emerges, but anybody who thinks he’s got a good chance to do anything more is way off, IMO.

Another thing is the attitude displayed by some posters when someone presents an opposing view. Just debate it & go on. The “willful ignorance” & “making stuff up” comments are ridiculous. Period.

 

[Football Jones]

I read that Williams was running ahead of Jones at practice.  3rd on the depth chart is pretty deep.

Is Monty running as the starter or #2?

Haven’t heard yet.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Is Monty running as the starter or #2?

Haven’t heard yet.

The latest news says Montgomery is the starting back - of course early depth charts do not mean much.

 

[Football Jones]

The latest news says Montgomery is the starting back - of course early depth charts do not mean much.

True.

 

[Biabreakable]

I haven’t seen any of the Jones naysayers, including myself, making anything up.

Jones is a marginal NFL starting RB talent by quit a few folks’ evaluation. Nobody said Jones doesn’t have ability, but I cringe at the thought someone thinks he’s a can’t-miss prospect. It’s absolutely absurd.

Jones reminds me of a lot of the stuff I heard from people who were high on Abdullah. Abdullah simply didn’t have enough lead in his pants for his skill set. Although Jones is slightly bigger, he’s very similar to Abdullah.

That’s what happens when you rely too much on metrics. Everybody misses, but the metric emphasis tends to be much less accurate than putting the majority of the emphasis on eyeball scouting.

I believe Jones has enough ability to be a short-term feature back if nobody else emerges, but anybody who thinks he’s got a good chance to do anything more is way off, IMO.

Another thing is the attitude displayed by some posters when someone presents an opposing view. Just debate it & go on. The “willful ignorance” & “making stuff up” comments are ridiculous. Period.

FWIW you are the one who brought up weight as your reasoning for why Jones isn't a feature RB. Even though there was only 4 lbs difference between Jones and Williams as measured at the combine. In your view Jones was too small to be a feature RB but Williams was big enough to be one.

You even started a thread to discuss this philosophy, where your main point is that the size of the RB matters.

Myself and others have spent time trying to show you that size may not matter as much as you seem to believe it does, even though your arguments for this idea do not withstand logic and reasoning. You haven't listened though as far as I can tell, and to me that is willful ignorance as I don't think you have learned anything from the exchange.

Just recently in the thread you are saying that if Aaron Jones did add 10lbs that would make him a different player and that would require people to re-scout him. This is what I think is a complete fabricated fiction, that a players size being so important that the player gaining or losing 10 lbs would require one to re-scout the player. It is something that exists only in your mind.

Another thing that I think you are making up is that it takes such a long time for players to gain or lose weight. This happens with players all the time. They use nutrition in addition to weight training and other exercises in a disciplined way to achieve the changes. While it does not happen overnight, it does not take a very long time either. A player can (and more have than you can shake a stick at) add or lose 10 lbs over the course of 2-3 months. Aaron Jones and Jamaal WIlliams have had an entire year now since they were drafted to figure out what the Packers want them to do and how they can become better football players at the NFL level. So they have had plenty of time to work on that. You made a claim that it is a very long process then used anecdotal evidence of being a gym rat to back that up. Maybe you are a gym rat maybe your not, but if you were I think you would be aware that while Rome isn't built in a day, that diet and exercise with discipline and a goal can lead to gaining or losing weight over the course of 2-3 months.

 

[Bojang0301]

Elijah McGuire 

I'll take JW over five McGuires. 

Look, I'm not saying to throw out combine results but they're just one piece. I used Foster just to remind you of that. There are a lot of current guys with less than stellar combines... Freeman, Howard, CJA, Gore, Hunt, Dalvin. I'm guilty myself for letting Dalvin's combine scare me off of him. I don't like spending high picks on guys with questionable combines, but I don't have anything against a later pick or rostering them once they've shown NFL ability. 

JW was running into some stacked boxes last year. I know everyone in this thread wants to think the 3.6 ypc is because his combine sucked, but I'd be willing to bet he's well over 4 ypc with Rodgers behind center this year. 

Either way, this will be a very interesting training camp battle since all three players (JW, Jones, Ty) are talented but with very different playing styles and physical builds. 

Laugh all you want. 

 

[Football Jones]

FWIW you are the one who brought up weight as your reasoning for why Jones isn't a feature RB. Even though there was only 4 lbs difference between Jones and Williams as measured at the combine. In your view Jones was too small to be a feature RB but Williams was big enough to be one.

You even started a thread to discuss this philosophy, where your main point is that the size of the RB matters.

Myself and others have spent time trying to show you that size may not matter as much as you seem to believe it does, even though your arguments for this idea do not withstand logic and reasoning. You haven't listened though as far as I can tell, and to me that is willful ignorance as I don't think you have learned anything from the exchange.

Just recently in the thread you are saying that if Aaron Jones did add 10lbs that would make him a different player and that would require people to re-scout him. This is what I think is a complete fabricated fiction, that a players size being so important that the player gaining or losing 10 lbs would require one to re-scout the player. It is something that exists only in your mind.

Another thing that I think you are making up is that it takes such a long time for players to gain or lose weight. This happens with players all the time. They use nutrition in addition to weight training and other exercises in a disciplined way to achieve the changes. While it does not happen overnight, it does not take a very long time either. A player can (and more have than you can shake a stick at) add or lose 10 lbs over the course of 2-3 months. Aaron Jones and Jamaal WIlliams have had an entire year now since they were drafted to figure out what the Packers want them to do and how they can become better football players at the NFL level. So they have had plenty of time to work on that. You made a claim that it is a very long process then used anecdotal evidence of being a gym rat to back that up. Maybe you are a gym rat maybe your not, but if you were I think you would be aware that while Rome isn't built in a day, that diet and exercise with discipline and a goal can lead to gaining or losing weight over the course of 2-3 months.

I'm not getting into this again other than to say my premise is really simple. The smaller a RB is, the more specific traits matter. I've phrased it many different different ways for you to understand. You don't get it & don't agree with it, but it's been successful for me. I shared it in the SP for discussion. That should've been the end of it.

As far as Jones, I'm not going to let this one go so easy. You've essentially called BS on several posters for no reason. It brings the SP down. Nothing, & I mean nothing anybody has said about Jones is a bold untrue statement that I've seen. You must be glossing over the posts. If you're going to spout off, at least be accurate. I stated Jones could definitely gain 15 pounds in a few months. Sure, you can gain or lose a lot of weight in a few months. That's not the issue. The problem is you can't gain enough good weight (muscle) in a few months to make those 15 pounds become automatically effective. The vast majority of the weight you could gain in a few months would be water & fat. The issue is what kind of impact it's going to have.

The poster I quoted had a right to question if Jones gaining 15 pounds was going to be good for him. BTW, yes, Jones could be a COMPLETELY different RB at 220. That's 12 pounds which is a big difference in playing weight for a RB, especially for somebody 5'9. It could potentially make a huge difference in his skill set. Jones already has marginal speed for his size & there's only a hair's difference between NFL players & those who don't make it.

Come to find out, Jones gained 5 or 10 according to the RB coach, not 15. That's more reasonable, but it's still a fair percentage of weight gained for a skill player & it could have consequences. Muscle gain is REALLY slow with players already on an NFL weightlifting program, especially without steroids. You can't just nod your head & assume this will help Jones become a feature back because he got slightly stronger & gained 5 or 10 pounds in the offseason. It just doesn't work that way. It's nonsense.

 

[Football Jones]

EDIT

 

[Biabreakable]

Whatever. You are incorrect about the difficultly of gaining or losing weight and you are grasping at straws suggesting it is poor weight. This is precisely what I mean about making stuff up.

Your entire premise is flawed to begin with and the premise that it works well for you is again, all in your head.

Good luck to you.

 

[DropKick]

Google is turning up nothing for me on this topic, though. Would be a really weird move for him, as I thought pass blocking and gaining those tough yards after contact were going to be critical to JW's success over Jones/Montgomery in this system. I don't think losing 10-15 lbs is really going to help him. I would've preferred to see him gain 5-10 lbs. Rodgers will gain the big yards, but he needs someone to convert those 3rd and shorts and to keep him clean in the pocket. 

Remember the good old days when Packer running backs were really fat?  I miss that.

 

[Football Jones]

Whatever. You are incorrect about the difficultly of gaining or losing weight and you are grasping at straws suggesting it is poor weight. This is precisely what I mean about making stuff up.

Your entire premise is flawed to begin with and the premise that it works well for you is again, all in your head.

Good luck to you.

Right. No offense, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You can gain or lose a fair amount of weight in a relatively short time, but what's critical is how it's going to affect the player (any strength gains, etc.).

Also, that's a bold statement telling me why & why not my premise has been successful. You can't even grasp it, yet have figured out it's in my head.

You've got some balls, LOL.

 

[Football Jones]

This is off topic, but I may as well put it in here because it could theoretically help somebody. When you hear a player bulked up in the offseason & put on a BUNCH of lean muscle, it's complete BS. You have to remember we've got to assume it's without the help of anabolics (which WILL help you gain muscle much faster) since they're illegal.

I've even heard professional trainers say similar bogus stuff. It simply can't be done. Even under the best of circumstances (with a newbie), it's fairly slow going typically, especially with NFL players who've likely been on a proven weightlifting program for awhile (including college). The real key is how much stronger someone gets in relation to the amount of weight gained.

The typical NFL player can get slightly stronger in an offseason under the right conditions. At some point, though, especially as players age, they're just trying to maintain strength. I kind of get a kick out of these "new & improved" stories. Not saying it can't happen, but if a player is already at a near ideal BF%, it's impossible to make a big transformation in a single offseason unless there's extenuating circumstances (like maybe a medical issue that's now being corrected).

Jones could win the starting job & maybe even become their feature back if nobody else emerges, but any strength gains this offseason is going to be a miniscule part of the reason why. The RB coach mentioned his lower body strength as a hinderance last season so I'll take a wild, wild guess & say he could squat 450 as a rookie. If Jones worked hard & can squat 500 now, which would be reasonable, the translatable value is very, very small. I'm not saying it wouldn't help, but we're talking percentage points here.

Again, sorry for the off-topic post, but understanding the basics of exercise & strength science can be helpful in FF. There's so much misinformation out there about this field.

Back to the debate...

 

[Interseptopus]

This is off topic, but I may as well put it in here because it could theoretically help somebody. When you hear a player bulked up in the offseason & put on a bunch of muscle, it's complete BS. You have to remember we've got to assume it's without the help of anabolics (which WILL help you gain muscle much faster) since they're illegal.

I've even heard professional trainers say similar bogus stuff. It simply can't be done. Even under the best of circumstances (with a newbie), it's fairly slow going, especially with NFL players who've likely been on a proven weightlifting program for awhile (including college). The real key is how much stronger someone gets in relation to the amount of weight gained.

The typical NFL player can get slightly stronger in an offseason under the right conditions. At some point, though, especially as players age, they're just trying to maintain strength. I kind of get a kick out of these "new & improved" stories. Not saying it can't happen, but if a player is already at an near ideal BF%, it's impossible to make a big transformation in a single offseason unless there's extenuating circumstances (like maybe a medical issue that's now being corrected).

Jones could win the starting job & maybe even become their feature back if nobody else emerges, but any strength gains this offseason is going to be a miniscule part of the reason why. The RB coach mentioned his lower body strength as a hinderance last season so I'll take a wild, wild guess & say he could squat 450 as a rookie. If Jones worked hard & can squat 500 now, which would be reasonable, the translatable value is very, very small. I'm not saying it wouldn't help, but we're talking percentage points here.

Again, sorry for the off-topic post, but understanding the basics of exercise & strength science can be helpful in FF. There's so much misinformation out there about this field.

Back to the debate...

as someone with a doctorate degree in this area, let me say you're wrong. 

 

[Football Jones]

Google is turning up nothing for me on this topic, though. Would be a really weird move for him, as I thought pass blocking and gaining those tough yards after contact were going to be critical to JW's success over Jones/Montgomery in this system. I don't think losing 10-15 lbs is really going to help him. I would've preferred to see him gain 5-10 lbs. Rodgers will gain the big yards, but he needs someone to convert those 3rd and shorts and to keep him clean in the pocket. 

Has anyone confirmed if Williams is actually trying to lose weight? Given his skill set, I can't imagine the Packers suggesting he lose 10-15 pounds, LOL. Maybe he's doing it on his own, but it's likely to backfire, LOL.

It's just silly to me.

 

[barackdhouse]

I'm sure this Jones vs Williams debate will continue *into* the season as well.

 

[gabes1919]

There’s not going to be much of a debate if this kid eats a drug suspension. I am baffled at how none of the fantasy analysts are talking about it. They don’t even seem to remember

 

[Biabreakable]

Right. No offense, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You can gain or lose a fair amount of weight in a relatively short time, but what's critical is how it's going to affect the player (any strength gains, etc.).

Also, that's a bold statement telling me why & why not my premise has been successful. You can't even grasp it, yet have figured out it's in my head.

You've got some balls, LOL.

I have more than a clue about this from first hand experience as well as how it is related to football, players gain and lose weight all the time.

Most of them are not like David Boston type weight changes, it is healthy and good weight.

I have already pointed out several times why your premise that a "smaller" RB needs to have elite speed or other intangibles to be a "featured" RB. The history of the game and the RB who have been featured RBs does not support your claim. At all.

I do understand what you are saying. It is just incorrect. I have been discussing this issue in various forms for decades now. Your idea does not hold up to any form of scrutiny, the evidence shows your claim to be false. Yet despite this, you still think it works for you, but that is all in your head. It is called confirmation bias.

You are just too stubborn to realize it.

 

[Football Jones]

as someone with a doctorate degree in this area, let me say you're wrong. 

The exercise & science field is much more understood in recent years. Everything I stated is essentially known fact. 

Are you saying you can gain 10 or 15 pounds of muscle in an offseason with people who are fairly close to their genetic potential already without anabolics? I have no idea about your qualifications, but as someone who's been interested in exercise & strength science forever & follow the most educated & smartest people on earth in this field, everything I've said is true.

Also, my anecdotal evidence (my experiences) might be just as helpful (coaching, etc.). I've been around a long time & these super-quick (a few months) transformation stories with top athletes are bogus unless there's extenuating circumstances.

 

[Biabreakable]

There’s not going to be much of a debate if this kid eats a drug suspension. I am baffled at how none of the fantasy analysts are talking about it. They don’t even seem to remember

Packers RB Aaron Jones pleads no contest to marijuana-related charge

I would assume he will be suspended at some point but no information about that has been decided yet.

 

[Football Jones]

I have more than a clue about this from first hand experience as well as how it is related to football, players gain and lose weight all the time.

Most of them are not like David Boston type weight changes, it is healthy and good weight.

I have already pointed out several times why your premise that a "smaller" RB needs to have elite speed or other intangibles to be a "featured" RB. The history of the game and the RB who have been featured RBs does not support your claim. At all.

I do understand what you are saying. It is just incorrect. I have been discussing this issue in various forms for decades now. Your idea does not hold up to any form of scrutiny, the evidence shows your claim to be false. Yet despite this, you still think it works for you, but that is all in your head. It is called confirmation bias.

You are just too stubborn to realize it.

Yeah, you've given me the conformation bias thing multiple times.

I find that, let's say, arrogant at best.

You don't get the premise. Just say that & move on. There's no need for all the BS.

 

[Interseptopus]

The exercise & science field is much more understood in recent years. Everything I stated is essentially known fact. 

Are you saying you can gain 10 or 15 pounds of muscle in an offseason with people who are fairly close to their genetic potential already without anabolics? I have no idea about your qualifications, but as someone who's been interested in exercise & strength science forever & follow the most educated & smartest people on earth in this field, everything I've said is true.

Also, my anecdotal evidence (my experiences) might be jus as helpful (coaching, etc.). I've been around a long time & these super-quick (a few months) transformation stories with top athletes are bogus unless there's extenuating circumstances.

anecdotal evidence is the worst out there. I've read many RCTs that prove you 100% wrong. 

I do this for a living. it's my job to make sure I'm up to date on the most recent evidence in these exact areas. 

but continue on... its entertaining 

 

[Football Jones]

anecdotal evidence is the worst out there. I've read many RCTs that prove you 100% wrong. 

I do this for a living. it's my job to make sure I'm up to date on the most recent evidence in these exact areas. 

but continue on... its entertaining 

Forget my anecdotal evidence then. If you're as qualified as you say, you should know you can't refute anything I've said. I'm not sure what RCTs you're referring to, but there's nothing to suggest trained athletes can gain 10 or 15 pounds of lean muscle tissue in a few months without anabolics. It doesn't happen.

Like I suggested to Biabreakable, if you don't agree, just say so without all the other stuff.

 

[Interseptopus]

for someone who claims to be super into reading about exercise and science, a gym rat, and up to date on the most recent information, I'm surprised you missed these articles

How Jonathan Lawson gained 20 pounds of muscle in 10 weeks

How to gain 10 pounds of muscle in 4 weeks

edit:

in case you're now scratching your head wondering who Jonathan Lawson is, hes a trained athlete. the very same type of person you suggest it is impossible for to gain 10 to 15 pounds in a few months. he did roughly double that in half the time

oh and theres baseball player Andrew Benintendi who put on 20 pounds of muscle in a few months during an offseason

 

[Football Jones]

for someone who claims to be super into reading about exercise and science, a gym rat, and up to date on the most recent information, I'm surprised you missed these articles

How Jonathan Lawson gained 20 pounds of muscle in 10 weeks

How to gain 10 pounds of muscle in 4 weeks

You have to be kidding. Somebody saying they gained 20 pounds of muscle in 10 weeks on livestrong.com & a quick tutorial on Muscle & Fitness. Come on, LOL.

These are the kinds of things I warned about in my previous post explaining this stuff. You would be surprised what you hear from people who should know better.

Personal trainers can be some of the absolute worst, spouting nonsense left & right. I've even heard S&C coaches spew the BS, although, it might be more about trying to motivate their subjects.