RB Ahmad Bradshaw looking Good at NYG rookie camp (1 Viewer)

[JAA]

I think the Tiki Barber comparisons are a bit pre-mature. But I hate when people simply write a player off on the basis of his combine numbers. The only RB that EBF remembers that had a below average workout was Gore. How about Kevin Jones? He looked “pretty mediocre from a physical skills standpoint” after his workouts. I will refresh your memory:

2. Kevin Jones, Virginia Tech (6-0 1/8, 227)

Ran the 40 three times at the combine (4.61, 4.63 and 4.65). He ran again at Virginia Tech's Pro Day and clocked 4.55 and 4.57 on the same surface. He also ran 4.10 in the short shuttle and 7.17 in the cone drill. He had a 36-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot-0 long jump and did 16 reps.

http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2004/04/21/1/

A few factors to consider:Kevin Jones was a first round pick. If NFL personnel people had felt comfortable drafting Bradshaw in the first then I'd be much more optimistic about his prospects.

Secondly, although the numbers you posted aren't great, a 4.55, 36" VJ, and 10'0" broad jump are within the range of what you typically see from 1st-2nd round RB prospects. Generally, good RB prospects run under 4.60, and jump over 35" in the vert and 10' in the broad jump. Go back and check recent combine info. Most of the top backs exceeded these marks and most of the top backs who didn't exceed these marks have been disappointments (Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson).

Consider last year's excellent rookie crop:

Reggie Bush

40 - 4.37s

BJ - 10'8"

VJ - 40.5"

Laurence Maroney

40 - 4.48s

BJ - 10'3"

VJ - 36"

DeAngelo Williams

40 - 4.45s (from his pro day)

BJ - 10'1"

VJ - 35.5"

Joseph Addai

40 - 4.40s

BJ - 10'5"

VJ - 38.5"

Maurice Drew

40 - 4.39s

BJ - 9'8"

VJ - 36"

Jerious Norwood

40 - 4.33s

BJ - 10'2"

VJ - 36.5"

And just for kicks...

LaDainian Tomlinson

40 - 4.46s

BJ - 10'4"

VJ - 40.5"

I think you have to pay attention to patterns like this. It's quite rare for a RB with poor combine numbers to become a star in the NFL. By and large, the best RB prospects going into the combine also have the best performance at the combine. This year wasn't much different.

Adrian Peterson

40 - 4.41s

BJ - 10'7"

VJ -38.5"

Marshawn Lynch

40 - 4.52s

BJ - 10'5"

VJ - 35.5"

Kenny Irons

40 - 4.54s

BJ - 10'2"

VJ - 38"

Brandon Jackson

40 - 4.55s

BJ - 10'2"

VJ - 37"

Only Chris Henry was a major surprise, putting up a monster workout out of nowhere. But that's somewhat rare.

EBF says that Tony Hunt is garbage on the basis of his sub par workouts but Lendale White doesn’t workout at all and lifts the bar one more fn time than the punter at his supposed pro day and he defends him almost every day.

In a strange way, you're almost proving my point about Bradshaw. Yes, I think White is a good player, but maybe I'm wrong. He hasn't done much on the field, which supports the idea that a RBs who don't have good workouts are less likely to produce at the next level (although the absence of a workout isn't the same thing as a poor workout).

And poor workouts are only part of the reason I think Hunt is a bum. That's also the feeling I get when I watch him run. White might be a lazy turd, but he looked like a solid prospect on the field (and incidentally was drafted earlier than both Hunt and Bradshaw).

at you calling Hunt a lazy turd and pimping White as a starGe EBF, Im turning into a stalker arent I?

 

[Chunky Soup]

Why is Droughns so overlooked right now???

...Droughns is a proven feature RB. That is exactly why the Giants got him. They are paying him more than Jacobs for a reason, too. Jacobs is not, nor will he ever be a feature RB.

Ever hear of RBBC? That is upside for Droughns this year. Jacobs has upside of being feature back with downside of being GL/short yardage. This is why Droughns is being "overlooked".

 

[H.K.]

Why is Droughns so overlooked right now???

...Droughns is a proven feature RB. That is exactly why the Giants got him. They are paying him more than Jacobs for a reason, too. Jacobs is not, nor will he ever be a feature RB.

Ever hear of RBBC? That is upside for Droughns this year. Jacobs has upside of being feature back with downside of being GL/short yardage. This is why Droughns is being "overlooked".

 

[JAA]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

 

[Chunky Soup]

Why is Droughns so overlooked right now???

...Droughns is a proven feature RB. That is exactly why the Giants got him. They are paying him more than Jacobs for a reason, too. Jacobs is not, nor will he ever be a feature RB.

Ever hear of RBBC? That is upside for Droughns this year. Jacobs has upside of being feature back with downside of being GL/short yardage. This is why Droughns is being "overlooked".

Did you see Droughns play last year? I feel sorry for a team that must have him for a full time feature back. If the guy even had a 'prime', he's certainly past it.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

Is the 7th round the same as undrafted? Did I say that undrafted RBs have never finished in the Top 30? Do you have a clue? Judging by that Chris Henry pick, I guess not.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

Is the 7th round the same as undrafted? Did I say that undrafted RBs have never finished in the Top 30? Do you have a clue? Judging by that Chris Henry pick, I guess not.

I really don't know how you're saying 7th rounders are useless but accepting UDFAs can make it. Lets talk 7th rounders though. Do you think its just a curse against RBs? How do you explain Colston making it in the 7th round? Houshmandzedah in 7th? What about Tom Brady being 6 picks away from being 7th round? These are off the top of my head.By ignoring all other positions in the 7th and also ignoring RBs in UD territory you're setting this up like the 7th round RBs are cursed just because we can't name any. Its a pretty bad conclusion.

 

[JAA]

I do want to make clear that I'm not advocating that everyone goes out and reaches for Bradshaw in the 2nd round of rookie drafts. He's still only 40th in my offensive rookie rankings. Still, I see a sliver of hope for the guy, because there's no one on the roster that has his skillset, because that skillset matches closer to tiki than anyone else on the roster, and because Gilbride has already stated he's leaving a main play that featured Tiki in the offense. I would say that Brandon Jacobs owners would be well served spending a rookie pick on Bradshaw once the first day WRs are gone, and that Bradshaw is worth keeping on your radar, especially if he carries over his hot start into training camp. I see some "straw man" debating here, where people are refuting that Bradshaw is a sure thing, or even likely to hit, when that's not what most of us are saying - we're saying that he's more intriguing than a typical 7th round RB, that's all.

THis is the argument I am making for Henry. He has shown that he has the physical ability, he has been drafted to a team where he only needs to beat out an under-performer, and this team selected the underperformer last year which means they selected RBs in back to back drafts. Doesnt sound like a team who is confident in their RB1. On top of that, Ten hasnt brought in a FA for true veteran insurance. Something is fishy in Ten, and Im on the "get Ten RB" bandwagon. Im not a Henry pimper, heck I dont think I ever saw him play a down of college football, but FF isnt always about player ... sometimes its strictly about opportunity.

 

[H.K.]

Did you see Droughns play last year? I feel sorry for a team that must have him for a full time feature back. If the guy even had a 'prime', he's certainly past it.

*sigh*Did you see Droughns play the two years before that? Go back to 2004 and count the number of RB's that have run for 1200 yards in a season since then. Then narrow the list to the number of RB's that did it twice. Droughns was in an awful situation in Cleveland last year and he was damn good considering what he had around him. Now, as the feature guy surrounded by much better skill talent and a better OL, Droughns will have a great year. Its why the Giants wanted him, they needed a guy to be that three down back to replace Tiki and they know Jacobs doesn't have the versatility, skill, or experience needed for the job.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

Is the 7th round the same as undrafted? Did I say that undrafted RBs have never finished in the Top 30? Do you have a clue? Judging by that Chris Henry pick, I guess not.

I really don't know how you're saying 7th rounders are useless but accepting UDFAs can make it. Lets talk 7th rounders though. Do you think its just a curse against RBs? How do you explain Colston making it in the 7th round? Houshmandzedah in 7th? What about Tom Brady being 6 picks away from being 7th round? These are off the top of my head.

By ignoring all other positions in the 7th and also ignoring RBs in UD territory you're setting this up like the 7th round RBs are cursed just because we can't name any. Its a pretty bad conclusion.

Because we can't track a "hit" percentage of UDFAs because we don't know how many were signed. But we do know how many 7th rounders were drafted. So we can examine the number of 7th rounders that made the Top 30 and compare it to the number of 7th rounders drafted and get a rough percentage of their "success" rate. And for the drafts from 1997 through 2006, there were no RBs drafted in the 7th round that were also in the Top 30 in RB Fantasy Points from 2002 through 2006. Now, do I think the 7th round is cursed? No. But the 5th round only had one guy who met that criteria (Derrick Blaylock was 30th in 2004) and the 6th round only had two players meet the criteria (Mike Anderson in 2005 and Chester Taylor in 2006). Now, I'm confused about your argument about other positions because I don't recall saying anything about 7th rounders at other positions in this thread. But since you asked:

QB - 27 drafted, 2 made it in the Top 30 (and making it in the Top 30 at the QB position is not a huge deal).

WR - 64 drafted, 3 made it in the Top 30 (Driver, Houshmandzadeh and Colston)

TE - 31 drafted, 7 made it in the Top 30 (Again, not as impressive in a start 1 TE league, but Shannon Sharpe was one of them).

So I think it's pretty clear that 7th rounders have a uphill battle to become fantasy relevant.

BTW - To go back to the UDFA point, there have been 7 RBs who made the Top 30 in fantasy points:

Holmes

Parker

Bell

Shipp

Goings

Gado

Hambrick

But the problem is figuring out how many have been signed to know whether that is a good percentage or not. Looking at this page, I count 31 RBs signed this year. If we assume that amount for each year from 1997 through 2006, that would be 310 total RBs. 7 who made the Top 30 out of 310 is a pretty small 2.2%.

Personally, I'm betting on Justin Vincent with ATL and Darius Walker with CHI to make the list in the future, but those are very long bets.

 

[Ilov80s]

Droughns is an 8 year vet, but only has 844 career carries so he likely isn't burnt out yet. He is the only proven feature back on the team.

04: 1481 total yards

05: 1601 yards

06: 927 yards- despite only starting 12 games for a Cleveland team with one of the worst and most injury plagued o-lines in the NFL.

IMO Droughns is the real value here. Although, BJ will likely vulture a ton of TDs.

 

[identikit]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

Is the 7th round the same as undrafted? Did I say that undrafted RBs have never finished in the Top 30? Do you have a clue? Judging by that Chris Henry pick, I guess not.

I really don't know how you're saying 7th rounders are useless but accepting UDFAs can make it. Lets talk 7th rounders though. Do you think its just a curse against RBs? How do you explain Colston making it in the 7th round? Houshmandzedah in 7th? What about Tom Brady being 6 picks away from being 7th round? These are off the top of my head.

By ignoring all other positions in the 7th and also ignoring RBs in UD territory you're setting this up like the 7th round RBs are cursed just because we can't name any. Its a pretty bad conclusion.

Because we can't track a "hit" percentage of UDFAs because we don't know how many were signed. But we do know how many 7th rounders were drafted. So we can examine the number of 7th rounders that made the Top 30 and compare it to the number of 7th rounders drafted and get a rough percentage of their "success" rate. And for the drafts from 1997 through 2006, there were no RBs drafted in the 7th round that were also in the Top 30 in RB Fantasy Points from 2002 through 2006. Now, do I think the 7th round is cursed? No. But the 5th round only had one guy who met that criteria (Derrick Blaylock was 30th in 2004) and the 6th round only had two players meet the criteria (Mike Anderson in 2005 and Chester Taylor in 2006). Now, I'm confused about your argument about other positions because I don't recall saying anything about 7th rounders at other positions in this thread. But since you asked:

QB - 27 drafted, 2 made it in the Top 30 (and making it in the Top 30 at the QB position is not a huge deal).

WR - 64 drafted, 3 made it in the Top 30 (Driver, Houshmandzadeh and Colston)

TE - 31 drafted, 7 made it in the Top 30 (Again, not as impressive in a start 1 TE league, but Shannon Sharpe was one of them).

So I think it's pretty clear that 7th rounders have a uphill battle to become fantasy relevant.

BTW - To go back to the UDFA point, there have been 7 RBs who made the Top 30 in fantasy points:

Holmes

Parker

Bell

Shipp

Goings

Gado

Hambrick

But the problem is figuring out how many have been signed to know whether that is a good percentage or not. Looking at this page, I count 31 RBs signed this year. If we assume that amount for each year from 1997 through 2006, that would be 310 total RBs. 7 who made the Top 30 out of 310 is a pretty small 2.2%.

Personally, I'm betting on Justin Vincent with ATL and Darius Walker with CHI to make the list in the future, but those are very long bets.

I believe D Walker has landed in Houston....Not that it's a good thing...Id

 

[Chunky Soup]

Did you see Droughns play last year? I feel sorry for a team that must have him for a full time feature back. If the guy even had a 'prime', he's certainly past it.

*sigh*Did you see Droughns play the two years before that? Go back to 2004 and count the number of RB's that have run for 1200 yards in a season since then. Then narrow the list to the number of RB's that did it twice. Droughns was in an awful situation in Cleveland last year and he was damn good considering what he had around him. Now, as the feature guy surrounded by much better skill talent and a better OL, Droughns will have a great year. Its why the Giants wanted him, they needed a guy to be that three down back to replace Tiki and they know Jacobs doesn't have the versatility, skill, or experience needed for the job.

Living in Cleveland, I can tell you it wasn't the situation that hurt him. There were a few bright spots on the team, and he wasn't one of them. You can talk up Droughns all you want. Even when he had his good season in CLE he only avg. 4.0 ypc. On top of which, he was carried by the first half of the season in which he avg 4.5 YPC vs the 3.5 in the second half. He could barely hold onto the 3-down job in Cleveland last year and now he won't be getting GL or short yardage carries in NY. He has pretty low upside.

RBs Droughns, Jacobs Expected To Split TimeAssociated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]The New York Giants told newly acquired RB Reuben Droughns they he will split time with 3rd-year RB Brandon Jacobs. "They said it's definitely going to be a 1-2 punch," Droughns said on Monday, "Brandon and me will be kind of a pound-it-out running style, so we'll try to wear down the defenses and work together. It's going to be a competition in training camp and the best man is going to win."

And there are plenty of other articles talking about this.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

Is the 7th round the same as undrafted? Did I say that undrafted RBs have never finished in the Top 30? Do you have a clue? Judging by that Chris Henry pick, I guess not.

I really don't know how you're saying 7th rounders are useless but accepting UDFAs can make it. Lets talk 7th rounders though. Do you think its just a curse against RBs? How do you explain Colston making it in the 7th round? Houshmandzedah in 7th? What about Tom Brady being 6 picks away from being 7th round? These are off the top of my head.

By ignoring all other positions in the 7th and also ignoring RBs in UD territory you're setting this up like the 7th round RBs are cursed just because we can't name any. Its a pretty bad conclusion.

Because we can't track a "hit" percentage of UDFAs because we don't know how many were signed. But we do know how many 7th rounders were drafted. So we can examine the number of 7th rounders that made the Top 30 and compare it to the number of 7th rounders drafted and get a rough percentage of their "success" rate. And for the drafts from 1997 through 2006, there were no RBs drafted in the 7th round that were also in the Top 30 in RB Fantasy Points from 2002 through 2006. Now, do I think the 7th round is cursed? No. But the 5th round only had one guy who met that criteria (Derrick Blaylock was 30th in 2004) and the 6th round only had two players meet the criteria (Mike Anderson in 2005 and Chester Taylor in 2006). Now, I'm confused about your argument about other positions because I don't recall saying anything about 7th rounders at other positions in this thread. But since you asked:

QB - 27 drafted, 2 made it in the Top 30 (and making it in the Top 30 at the QB position is not a huge deal).

WR - 64 drafted, 3 made it in the Top 30 (Driver, Houshmandzadeh and Colston)

TE - 31 drafted, 7 made it in the Top 30 (Again, not as impressive in a start 1 TE league, but Shannon Sharpe was one of them).

So I think it's pretty clear that 7th rounders have a uphill battle to become fantasy relevant.

BTW - To go back to the UDFA point, there have been 7 RBs who made the Top 30 in fantasy points:

Holmes

Parker

Bell

Shipp

Goings

Gado

Hambrick

But the problem is figuring out how many have been signed to know whether that is a good percentage or not. Looking at this page, I count 31 RBs signed this year. If we assume that amount for each year from 1997 through 2006, that would be 310 total RBs. 7 who made the Top 30 out of 310 is a pretty small 2.2%.

Personally, I'm betting on Justin Vincent with ATL and Darius Walker with CHI to make the list in the future, but those are very long bets.

I believe D Walker has landed in Houston....Not that it's a good thing...Id

Ahh..my bad.

 

[H.K.]

Droughns is an 8 year vet, but only has 844 career carries so he likely isn't burnt out yet. He is the only proven feature back on the team. 04: 1481 total yards 05: 1601 yards06: 927 yards- despite only starting 12 games for a Cleveland team with one of the worst and most injury plagued o-lines in the NFL. IMO Droughns is the real value here. Although, BJ will likely vulture a ton of TDs.

Precisely. Also lost in all this shuffle is that Jacobs does not have the frame to be an every down back, there is a reason his body is not the prototype for his position in the NFL. Giants fans love his emotion and circus freak atmosphere he creates when he touches the ball, but in reality, he is not equipped to be a full time RB. He's a big guy who can run fast, but he isn't elusive (despite what he says), or that hard to bring down. His highlight reel at Southern Illinois is filled with tiny, no talent DB's taking him down at first contact by hitting him low. He is too slow to juke someone, and he can't lower his shoulder enough to prevent getting taken out at the knees or ankles. He lacks the quick lateral movement that is much easier for a smaller RB to perform sharper cuts because of their physical make up.Also, normal sized RB's can "get lost" behind big lineman and pop through creases quickly. However, every defender on the field will have no problem finding Jacobs slowly plodding his way behind the LOS. Jacobs is a battleship in modern times, he's imposing and impressive, but has limited use for most practical purposes.

 

[H.K.]

Living in Cleveland, I can tell you it wasn't the situation that hurt him. There were a few bright spots on the team, and he wasn't one of them.

RBs Droughns, Jacobs Expected To Split Time

Associated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]

The New York Giants told newly acquired RB Reuben Droughns they he will split time with 3rd-year RB Brandon Jacobs. "They said it's definitely going to be a 1-2 punch," Droughns said on Monday, "Brandon and me will be kind of a pound-it-out running style, so we'll try to wear down the defenses and work together. It's going to be a competition in training camp and the best man is going to win."

Living in Cleveland, you must know something about 1000 yard rushers in recent years there....care to share who they are?The "competition" between Droughns and Jacobs is already over. The Giants will give the public appearance that there will be one, but they already know Droughns is their guy.

 

[coolnerd]

Why is Droughns so overlooked right now???

The majority of fantasy players discount known mediocrity heavily, especially when there is unknown potential in the competition/committee with it. Also, see any Carolina RB discussion thread.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Droughns is an 8 year vet, but only has 844 career carries so he likely isn't burnt out yet. He is the only proven feature back on the team. 04: 1481 total yards 05: 1601 yards06: 927 yards- despite only starting 12 games for a Cleveland team with one of the worst and most injury plagued o-lines in the NFL. IMO Droughns is the real value here. Although, BJ will likely vulture a ton of TDs.

Precisely. Also lost in all this shuffle is that Jacobs does not have the frame to be an every down back, there is a reason his body is not the prototype for his position in the NFL. Giants fans love his emotion and circus freak atmosphere he creates when he touches the ball, but in reality, he is not equipped to be a full time RB. He's a big guy who can run fast, but he isn't elusive (despite what he says), or that hard to bring down. His highlight reel at Southern Illinois is filled with tiny, no talent DB's taking him down at first contact by hitting him low. He is too slow to juke someone, and he can't lower his shoulder enough to prevent getting taken out at the knees or ankles. He lacks the quick lateral movement that is much easier for a smaller RB to perform sharper cuts because of their physical make up.Also, normal sized RB's can "get lost" behind big lineman and pop through creases quickly. However, every defender on the field will have no problem finding Jacobs slowly plodding his way behind the LOS. Jacobs is a battleship in modern times, he's imposing and impressive, but has limited use for most practical purposes.

Are you talking about Jacobs here, or Michael Bush?

 

[H.K.]

Why is Droughns so overlooked right now???

The majority of fantasy players discount known mediocrity heavily, especially when there is unknown potential in the competition/committee with it. Also, see any Carolina RB discussion thread.

Even more focus on the past year's results and forget about the player's body of work.Matt Jones/Isaac Bruce was a great example of that last year. People fell all over themselves for potential and completely forgot about one of the best performers in the league because he missed a few games the year before.FBG had Jones around WR 29 in PPR and Bruce at WR 42 before the season...Bruce finished WR23, Jones at WR52.The same exact thing is happening now with Jacobs/Droughns and nobody is aware of it. The proven, steady, non-exciting producer versus the all potential/no results guy.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Living in Cleveland, I can tell you it wasn't the situation that hurt him. There were a few bright spots on the team, and he wasn't one of them.

RBs Droughns, Jacobs Expected To Split Time

Associated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]

The New York Giants told newly acquired RB Reuben Droughns they he will split time with 3rd-year RB Brandon Jacobs. "They said it's definitely going to be a 1-2 punch," Droughns said on Monday, "Brandon and me will be kind of a pound-it-out running style, so we'll try to wear down the defenses and work together. It's going to be a competition in training camp and the best man is going to win."

Living in Cleveland, you must know something about 1000 yard rushers in recent years there....care to share who they are?The "competition" between Droughns and Jacobs is already over. The Giants will give the public appearance that there will be one, but they already know Droughns is their guy.

so who is your insider on the NYG that lead you to believe this?

 

[JAA]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

Is the 7th round the same as undrafted? Did I say that undrafted RBs have never finished in the Top 30? Do you have a clue? Judging by that Chris Henry pick, I guess not.

Sounds like you have it all figured out. Send me you WCOFF team so I can have a starting point for my FF Dynasty's

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

Is the 7th round the same as undrafted? Did I say that undrafted RBs have never finished in the Top 30? Do you have a clue? Judging by that Chris Henry pick, I guess not.

Sounds like you have it all figured out. Send me you WCOFF team so I can have a starting point for my FF Dynasty's

 

[H.K.]

Are you talking about Jacobs here, or Michael Bush?

Interesting comparison. Bush was a heisman candidate and an absolute beast in college. Jacobs was not close to his level of dominance.From a size perspective, there is another thread in the pool analyzing the best attributes for an RB. Basically, people of Bush's stature have been elite RB's in the NFL....while nobody the size of Jacobs has ever been Top 25.There are "big" backs who can still play the position. However, as the results of the study showed, once a certain size is exceeded, the chance for an RB's success is severley limited. Jacobs exceeds the historically successful measurements by quite a bit.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Not a SINGLE RB drafted in the 7th round from 1997 through 2006 has finished in the top 30 (the top 30!) in RB Fantasy Points over the last 5 years. But I'm sure Bradshaw will break that trend.

and yet Willie Parker and Priest Holmes were undrafted FAs...

EDIT: Mike Bell finished 30 ...

Is the 7th round the same as undrafted? Did I say that undrafted RBs have never finished in the Top 30? Do you have a clue? Judging by that Chris Henry pick, I guess not.

Sounds like you have it all figured out. Send me you WCOFF team so I can have a starting point for my FF Dynasty's

hey, maybe EBF can contribute as well!

 

[H.K.]

Living in Cleveland, I can tell you it wasn't the situation that hurt him. There were a few bright spots on the team, and he wasn't one of them.

RBs Droughns, Jacobs Expected To Split Time

Associated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]

The New York Giants told newly acquired RB Reuben Droughns they he will split time with 3rd-year RB Brandon Jacobs. "They said it's definitely going to be a 1-2 punch," Droughns said on Monday, "Brandon and me will be kind of a pound-it-out running style, so we'll try to wear down the defenses and work together. It's going to be a competition in training camp and the best man is going to win."

Living in Cleveland, you must know something about 1000 yard rushers in recent years there....care to share who they are?The "competition" between Droughns and Jacobs is already over. The Giants will give the public appearance that there will be one, but they already know Droughns is their guy.

so who is your insider on the NYG that lead you to believe this?

What I hear off Exit 16W stays there....I could tell you guys much more on this situation, but I'm simply posting the publicly available stuff. Everything I've said is confirmed in press releases. Every quote about Jacobs is "hope" or "we'll see", where as Droughns is a "we know" or "he can".

 

[footballfreek]

Living in Cleveland, I can tell you it wasn't the situation that hurt him. There were a few bright spots on the team, and he wasn't one of them.

RBs Droughns, Jacobs Expected To Split Time

Associated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]

The New York Giants told newly acquired RB Reuben Droughns they he will split time with 3rd-year RB Brandon Jacobs. "They said it's definitely going to be a 1-2 punch," Droughns said on Monday, "Brandon and me will be kind of a pound-it-out running style, so we'll try to wear down the defenses and work together. It's going to be a competition in training camp and the best man is going to win."

Living in Cleveland, you must know something about 1000 yard rushers in recent years there....care to share who they are?The "competition" between Droughns and Jacobs is already over. The Giants will give the public appearance that there will be one, but they already know Droughns is their guy.

O.K. since you’re obviously in on all the meetings and know what the RB situation is what is your take on Bradshaw. I mean after all that’s what the thread is about. I just enjoy reading these post from the "people in the know" when they know no more than the rest of us.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Living in Cleveland, I can tell you it wasn't the situation that hurt him. There were a few bright spots on the team, and he wasn't one of them.

RBs Droughns, Jacobs Expected To Split Time

Associated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]

The New York Giants told newly acquired RB Reuben Droughns they he will split time with 3rd-year RB Brandon Jacobs. "They said it's definitely going to be a 1-2 punch," Droughns said on Monday, "Brandon and me will be kind of a pound-it-out running style, so we'll try to wear down the defenses and work together. It's going to be a competition in training camp and the best man is going to win."

Living in Cleveland, you must know something about 1000 yard rushers in recent years there....care to share who they are?The "competition" between Droughns and Jacobs is already over. The Giants will give the public appearance that there will be one, but they already know Droughns is their guy.

so who is your insider on the NYG that lead you to believe this?

What I hear off Exit 16W stays there....I could tell you guys much more on this situation, but I'm simply posting the publicly available stuff. Everything I've said is confirmed in press releases. Every quote about Jacobs is "hope" or "we'll see", where as Droughns is a "we know" or "he can".

 

[H.K.]

Living in Cleveland, I can tell you it wasn't the situation that hurt him. There were a few bright spots on the team, and he wasn't one of them.

RBs Droughns, Jacobs Expected To Split Time

Associated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]

The New York Giants told newly acquired RB Reuben Droughns they he will split time with 3rd-year RB Brandon Jacobs. "They said it's definitely going to be a 1-2 punch," Droughns said on Monday, "Brandon and me will be kind of a pound-it-out running style, so we'll try to wear down the defenses and work together. It's going to be a competition in training camp and the best man is going to win."

Living in Cleveland, you must know something about 1000 yard rushers in recent years there....care to share who they are?The "competition" between Droughns and Jacobs is already over. The Giants will give the public appearance that there will be one, but they already know Droughns is their guy.

O.K. since you’re obviously in on all the meetings and know what the RB situation is what is your take on Bradshaw. I mean after all that’s what the thread is about. I just enjoy reading these post from the "people in the know" when they know no more than the rest of us.

Way too early to tell. Need to see how he does with pads on.

 

[EBF]

Where's the post saying I ignored his three cone time? I must've missed that.

That your only using 40 time and the jumps for evaluating RBs tells me that you are ignoring that Bradshaw has one of the best 3 cone times for a RB over the past 5 years I believe another poster in this thread pointed out.I mean doesen't that tell you he has unique agility?If you are only talking about 40 time and the jumps for the purpose of your argument against Bradshaw that is one thing. But if you ignore 3 cone for all RB and only look at 40 time and the jumps for all RB then that is somthing else.Which is it?

A great three cone time coupled with poor jump numbers makes him the RB prospect equivalent of a butterface. Nice three cone, but...

You also did not answer what you think is more important between these 2 measurables. Although it seems you think the jumps are more important that 3 cone time.

I did answer. I said it's all important. I look at all of it. Ideally, a prospect will do well in every test.

 

[Biabreakable]

Where's the post saying I ignored his three cone time? I must've missed that.

That your only using 40 time and the jumps for evaluating RBs tells me that you are ignoring that Bradshaw has one of the best 3 cone times for a RB over the past 5 years I believe another poster in this thread pointed out.I mean doesen't that tell you he has unique agility?If you are only talking about 40 time and the jumps for the purpose of your argument against Bradshaw that is one thing. But if you ignore 3 cone for all RB and only look at 40 time and the jumps for all RB then that is somthing else.Which is it?

A great three cone time coupled with poor jump numbers makes him the RB prospect equivalent of a butterface. Nice three cone, but...

You also did not answer what you think is more important between these 2 measurables. Although it seems you think the jumps are more important that 3 cone time.

I did answer. I said it's all important. I look at all of it. Ideally, a prospect will do well in every test.

Ok last try.If someone put a gun to your head and you had to answer honestly what measurable is more important, 3 cone time or vertical or broad jump for a RB what would you answer be?

 

[EBF]

Ok last try.If someone put a gun to your head and you had to answer honestly what measurable is more important, 3 cone time or vertical or broad jump for a RB what would you answer be?

I'd say they're both important. Why does one have to be more important than the other?

 

[Patoons]

Ok last try.If someone put a gun to your head and you had to answer honestly what measurable is more important, 3 cone time or vertical or broad jump for a RB what would you answer be?

I'd say they're both important. Why does one have to be more important than the other?

 

[EBF]

Ok last try.If someone put a gun to your head and you had to answer honestly what measurable is more important, 3 cone time or vertical or broad jump for a RB what would you answer be?

I'd say they're both important. Why does one have to be more important than the other?

I'm serious though. Here's a simple analogy. Pretend you're a talent scout looking for models. You see a girl with a perfect body and a hideous face. Would you sign her to be a runway model? No, because you want a girl who has a perfect body and a perfect face. It's not that one is more important than the other. They're both essential. An airplane might have beautiful wings, but if it's shaped like a bowling ball then it probably won't fly too well.

 

[Patoons]

I'm serious though. Here's a simple analogy. Pretend you're a talent scout looking for models. You see a girl with a perfect body and a hideous face. Would you sign her to be a runway model? No, because you want a girl who has a perfect body and a perfect face. It's not that one is more important than the other. They're both essential. An airplane might have beautiful wings, but if it's shaped like a bowling ball then it probably won't fly too well.

I'm not saying you aren't and I'm not saying I don't necessarily agree with you. I also don't think combine numbers always reflect NFL success (and I'm sure you agree). I think it's funny how this thread has veered off to discuss this aspect of scouting instead of bradshaw and it appears to be going no where.That said, I'm curious to see how Bradshaw does through mini camp and into the preseason. I don't think Jacobs or Droughns are definitive NFL starting RBs with long-term careers. Should be an interesting situation to watch.Back to the comment on 7th rd versus UDFA - I think the point is that it's possible that guys can be successful who aren't drafted or even in the 7th. Regardless of the sample size of UDFAs, there are players with talent in that bucket who can be starting RBs drafted (in the 7th or not). If Parker were drafted in the 7th by Pitt, it would be a different story.As stated earlier, Bradshaw is also a different animal- he dropped vastly due to his off the field issues. With the continued focus on character over the past year, team's seemed to steer clear. If Coughlin can help get his act together, this kid can surpise. One of the backs with the best vision in the class.

 

[KellysHeroes]

What about getting back to the player in question

don't worry, I just fix the name of the thread

but lets stop

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I'm serious though. Here's a simple analogy. Pretend you're a talent scout looking for models. You see a girl with a perfect body and a hideous face. Would you sign her to be a runway model? No, because you want a girl who has a perfect body and a perfect face. It's not that one is more important than the other. They're both essential. An airplane might have beautiful wings, but if it's shaped like a bowling ball then it probably won't fly too well.

Back to the comment on 7th rd versus UDFA - I think the point is that it's possible that guys can be successful who aren't drafted or even in the 7th. Regardless of the sample size of UDFAs, there are players with talent in that bucket who can be starting RBs drafted (in the 7th or not). If Parker were drafted in the 7th by Pitt, it would be a different story.

One more comment and then I'm done with the hijack: The point isn't that RBs drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th or even undrafted can't become stars. Of course they can. The point is that the chance that any given RB that is drafted there (or undrafted) becomes a star are much lower than the chance that a 2nd or 3rd round QB or WR will become a star. In a large percentage of the cases, the NFL teams are better at predicting future success than you or I. So it's a losing dynasty strategy in most cases to take a 7th round RB when there are still first day QBs and WRs on the board. Now, I do think that Bradshaw is a good RB and he certainly could emerge in NY. I had him ranked 14-15 pre-draft and thought he would go off the board in the late 3rd or early 4th. But when he dropped to become the last RB drafted, I cooled on him because I figure that all those NFL teams know more than I do.

 

[Patoons]

One more comment and then I'm done with the hijack:

The point isn't that RBs drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th or even undrafted can't become stars. Of course they can. The point is that the chance that any given RB that is drafted there (or undrafted) becomes a star are much lower than the chance that a 2nd or 3rd round QB or WR will become a star. In a large percentage of the cases, the NFL teams are better at predicting future success than you or I. So it's a losing dynasty strategy in most cases to take a 7th round RB when there are still first day QBs and WRs on the board.

Now, I do think that Bradshaw is a good RB and he certainly could emerge in NY. I had him ranked 14-15 pre-draft and thought he would go off the board in the late 3rd or early 4th. But when he dropped to become the last RB drafted, I cooled on him because I figure that all those NFL teams know more than I do.

I absolutely agree with your comments.As I mentioned earlier, I really think the main reason Bradshaw slipped is with the continued focus on character in the NFL.

 

[Biabreakable]

One more comment and then I'm done with the hijack:

The point isn't that RBs drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th or even undrafted can't become stars. Of course they can. The point is that the chance that any given RB that is drafted there (or undrafted) becomes a star are much lower than the chance that a 2nd or 3rd round QB or WR will become a star. In a large percentage of the cases, the NFL teams are better at predicting future success than you or I. So it's a losing dynasty strategy in most cases to take a 7th round RB when there are still first day QBs and WRs on the board.

Now, I do think that Bradshaw is a good RB and he certainly could emerge in NY. I had him ranked 14-15 pre-draft and thought he would go off the board in the late 3rd or early 4th. But when he dropped to become the last RB drafted, I cooled on him because I figure that all those NFL teams know more than I do.

I absolutely agree with your comments.As I mentioned earlier, I really think the main reason Bradshaw slipped is with the continued focus on character in the NFL.

I agree with this and I definitly think it had more to do with where he was drafted than his jump numbers did.If I wanted to bother and information could be found I am pretty sure there have been numerous examples of top 30 RB who did not have exceptional jump numbers. And a lot more than RB who did not have decent 3 cone times.

That might make for an interesting study but I know I wont have time for it.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

One more comment and then I'm done with the hijack:

The point isn't that RBs drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th or even undrafted can't become stars. Of course they can. The point is that the chance that any given RB that is drafted there (or undrafted) becomes a star are much lower than the chance that a 2nd or 3rd round QB or WR will become a star. In a large percentage of the cases, the NFL teams are better at predicting future success than you or I. So it's a losing dynasty strategy in most cases to take a 7th round RB when there are still first day QBs and WRs on the board.

Now, I do think that Bradshaw is a good RB and he certainly could emerge in NY. I had him ranked 14-15 pre-draft and thought he would go off the board in the late 3rd or early 4th. But when he dropped to become the last RB drafted, I cooled on him because I figure that all those NFL teams know more than I do.

I absolutely agree with your comments.As I mentioned earlier, I really think the main reason Bradshaw slipped is with the continued focus on character in the NFL.

I agree with this and I definitly think it had more to do with where he was drafted than his jump numbers did.If I wanted to bother and information could be found I am pretty sure there have been numerous examples of top 30 RB who did not have exceptional jump numbers. And a lot more than RB who did not have decent 3 cone times.

That might make for an interesting study but I know I wont have time for it.

You two are probably right, it just seems like a far way to fall, even with a higher premium placed on character. Interesting idea for an article there Bia.

 

[Donnybrook]

JJ Arrington was a 2nd round pick, had a 2000 yard college season and some other good measurables. Not sure what his jumps were like? But one thing I do remember about him is his 3 cone time was terrible. And when I watched tape on him I saw terrible agility and a RB who took way too long to change direction to be successful.

I think you might be confused with another running back. I was looking at past combines and J.J. Arrington posted 6.81 second 3 cone. The fastest 3 cone for a running back at the 2005 combine.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/arrington_jj#agility

over

 

[KellysHeroes]

Some more good news

The Giants envision seventh-round pick Ahmad Bradshaw "as a change-of-pace back and maybe a third-down back."

"He has good hands and catches the ball really easily out of the backfield," GM Jerry Reese says. "He sucks the ball up when he catches it...he’s instinctive. He’s a darter who gets into the hole quickly." Bradshaw, who the team feels it stole so late, has a chance for instant fantasy value.

 

[Biabreakable]

JJ Arrington was a 2nd round pick, had a 2000 yard college season and some other good measurables. Not sure what his jumps were like? But one thing I do remember about him is his 3 cone time was terrible. And when I watched tape on him I saw terrible agility and a RB who took way too long to change direction to be successful.

I think you might be confused with another running back. I was looking at past combines and J.J. Arrington posted 6.81 second 3 cone. The fastest 3 cone for a running back at the 2005 combine.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/arrington_jj#agility

over

Suprised at this and that just goes to show how insignificant measurables can be for figuring out what a players abilities are. My memory was totaly wrong on the 3 cone time for Arrington if I ever looked at it so I retract that statement. What fudged my memory and caused my assumption is when I have seen Arrington run I do not see good change of direction ability from him or decisivness and that is somthing I really focus on when looking at a college RB because the huge holes for straight line speed just will not be there often enough when a RB moves to the pro level.

Back to Bradshaw, what I do see from him is good vision and change of direction ability. He does not seem to have the top end speed to go the distance once he makes defenders miss... they often seem to be able to get back to him and make the tackle, but he repeatedly makes them miss thier 1st attempt with solid moves and that allows him to get extra yardage. I think this is an important thing for a RB to be able to do at the pro level and I think Bradshaw has a chance to be a decent RB if he works hard and improves which he does seem to be working hard from comments I have heard him and coaches say about him.

 

[EBF]

I think it's important to remember that it generally takes a very special RB to become a long-term starter in the NFL. Every season brings 4-8 backs who are drafted on the first day of the NFL draft to compete for one of the 32 starting jobs out there. With so few starting slots available, only the very best talents are going to emerge as long-term starters. So unless a prospect is truly exceptional, he stands very little chance of lasting as a starter (even if a fringe player gets a starting job, he'll often be replaced ala Troy Hambrick, Chester Taylor, Stacey Mack, Michael Pittman, James Allen, etc).

Bradshaw may very well be decent, but he doesn't have the look of a rare player, IMO.