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RB Darrell Henderson, LAR (2 Viewers)

How many offseasons now have you been predicting the demise of Melvin Gordon?
I've said in other threads that Gordon and Kelce are the two poster boys for the success of microfracture. They are, unfortunately, outliers and this procedure remains largely less effective that others at managing chondral lesions. This is kind of an older procedure, to simplify it, however it offers the quickest turn around time. Ultimately, it typically doesnt last as long as other options that take longer to recover. Since the NFL and their athletes have a small window of opportunity, they'll go for the quicker turn around time with less favorable long term prognosis

 
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I can forward you a power point that summarizes the more promising evidence for PRP to treat arthritic changes in the average person. That may have a very exciting future in orthopedics 
Thanks.  Would like to see that.  Unfortunately I’ve had mixed results with PRP.  Left OK, right no real effect.  

 
I don't always agree with Dr. Dan here, but I don't really think he pulls rank with his medical arguments very often. My take is that his tendency is to keep it on FF. But he really isn't making a rocket science argument here. He has given the medical story without any obvious bias. No, being a Henderson fan does not make his medical opinion biased. It is his medical opinion that informs his fantasy take. I don't think that even qualifies as chewing gum and walking at the same time. If the conclusion is that Gurley's knee is degenerating, then the fantasy take is pretty simple. For me if the easter bunny were drafted by the Rams in the spot DH was, I'd probably take him 1.04 or 1.05 too. 

Almost every piece of evidence we have points to Gurley having issues that are more serious than the fantasy community thinks. It remains to be seen of course. Anyway I'm always skeptical of a message board doctor, too, but I honestly don't think he tries to go there that often. And he isn't making this stuff up. There is no incentive for that.  But mostly, this isn't about him it's about Gurley's knee(s) and ultimately Henderson. Plenty of people have the same basic take. Find us the doctors saying his knee is a minor issue. Not saying they don't exist but let's see them. Where are the "positive vibe" stories about Gurley?  If his knee is shot then basic math says DH is a league winning play.

I still don't know if Gurley will be able to manage a split workload. Still have to assume he can, in which case I'm not super high on DH. I've said I think he will be flexworthy in such a case but that isn't very sexy.  

 
Cue the part where someone says "but we don't *know* for sure, we didn't examine him." Ok but do you aim for where the receiver is or where he is *going* to be? At the heart of this hobby is trying to be better than our leaguemates at reading the tea leaves and *guessing* how things will unfold. 

Sometimes these decisions are much easier than others. This one is really difficult. Gurley is as big of a stud as we've seen. Predicting his downfall in this manner is not pretty. And even though I am betting against him (also at the heart of this hobby), I do legitimately feel bad for the guy. And I hope he is able to maintain his career even in just a split. 

 
I was trying to avoid this post because I dont feel I owe anyone an explanation. I know what I say to be medical fact is such and if someone doesnt want to believe me that's their prerogative. I couldn't care less. The same guys like to challenge, doubt and poke fun at me today as they have for years. 

My point in going into detail about the medical side of things was to explain where I am coming from and why I hold the opinion I do of Gurley and Henderson, not to make definitive diagnoses on Gurley. If that is how I came across, I apologize and I will try to be better in the future. 

Guys like players because of their college tape, BMI, college stats, breakout age, alma mater, or they give you that tingling feeling down your leg (probably should see someone about that)... I like a guy because of many of those thngs, but in addition because the guy he is behind has a medical issue that I feel I can make a reasonable assumption on how it will progress and give another player a big opportunity. I feel this way because I can connect the dots between several discussed factors and what I know to be true medically. 

If I didnt own DH I'd have this same opinion. I dont own Michel, or any NE RB and I hold an equally grim outlook for him. Naturally, my interest on this board is more with the guys I own, wish I owned, or have interest in owning. Of course the hurt guys draw my interest as well because that stuff is fun to me. If you care for me to start a thread strictly for medical questions I'd be happy to. Then I couldnt be accused of fantasy ownership bias. 

 
Naturally, my interest on this board is more with the guys I own, wish I owned, or have interest in owning.


Interrogation 101.  Let a guy talk enough and he’ll eventually expose his true motives.  DD is trying to bring home a low ball offer for Gurley.  Now we know what you’re up to.  Caught red handed.  Buy Gurley and sell Henderson now!  

 
I would also like to point out that Todd Gurley didn't even catch 60 passes last year. Yet, I'm being unreasonable to suggest that this rookie won't come in and do it.

💁
But he's going to get all off Kupp's touches, the TE touches and the QB sneaks.  He will also play QB when they run the flea flicker

 
voiceofunreason said:
I remember selling Abdullah for Gordon in a couple leagues in their first preseason. Could get some great deals if the hype gets going.
If I did own Henderson, selling at his high point (which is likely to be this preseason) would be a priority.

Getting a 2020 1st+ would be a monumental steal, IMO.

 
voiceofunreason said:
I remember selling Abdullah for Gordon in a couple leagues in their first preseason. Could get some great deals if the hype gets going.


Has it been your experience that living in the past on trades provides greater insight on the futures of unrelated players years later?

 
For anyone and everyone that wants to compare DH and Kamara, I issue a challenge.

Go watch both of their game tape, back to back.  Then watch again.  And again.  It probably won't take three views to let the air out of that balloon but they are not all that similar and it's quickly obvious that AK is a different tier of athlete.  Much, much more slippery and elusive and far quicker.  The extra burst is obvious. A smarter runner too when choosing lanes and setting up angles.

I say this as someone who actually likes DH and would consider taking him around the 1.06, 1.07 spot.  If Gurley's knee falls off and he becomes their top option, he'll probably put up a back end RB 1 season,  but I'll firmly say he'll never be an elite fantasy option.  Forget Kamara, ain't happening.  It's a ridiculous comp.  

 
Geez guys. Enough already.  Does a player have to be a Kamara clone to be used in a similar manner in another team’s offense?  Is it not possible for a RB not named Kamara to accumulate catches out of the backfield?  Someone had better notify McCaffrey.  For Pete’s sake.  This thread is quickly evolving into guys just begging to get into huge pissing contests over seemingly inconsequential or nonsensical positions.

 
Geez guys. Enough already.  Does a player have to be a Kamara clone to be used in a similar manner in another team’s offense?  Is it not possible for a RB not named Kamara to accumulate catches out of the backfield?  Someone had better notify McCaffrey.  For Pete’s sake.  This thread is quickly evolving into guys just begging to get into huge pissing contests over seemingly inconsequential or nonsensical positions.
I said I liked him.  Problem is people ARE comping him to Kamara and calling them similar based on a silly quote from the GM that just picked him.  If you want me to expand the list of who he's not, fine.  McCaffrey, Barkley, Gurley, Elliot, Mixon....basically any of the top backs now or over the last few years, he's not.  

 
I said I liked him.  Problem is people ARE comping him to Kamara and calling them similar based on a silly quote from the GM that just picked him.  If you want me to expand the list of who he's not, fine.  McCaffrey, Barkley, Gurley, Elliot, Mixon....basically any of the top backs now or over the last few years, he's not.  


Well don’t stop there.  Why don’t you name every RB in NFL history who he isn’t?  

I’m only concerned about one guy when considering Henderson, and that’s Henderson.  ETA - that’s too simplistic. Gurley has to bear consideration in the discussion with maybe a slight nod perhaps to Brown.  But you just keep on tilting at those windmills. 

 
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Well don’t stop there.  Why don’t you name every RB in NFL history who he isn’t?  

I’m only concerned about one guy when considering Henderson, and that’s Henderson.  ETA - that’s too simplistic. Gurley has to bear consideration in the discussion with maybe a slight nod perhaps to Brown.  But you just keep on tilting at those windmills. 
No idea what that is supposed to mean.

I'm not on some ledge here.  There's probably 30+ mentions of Kamara in the last several pages and that singular quote from Snead is the one that seemed to drench this thread in lighter fluid.  

Excuse me for talking about the thing that's being talked about.

 
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Geez guys. Enough already.  Does a player have to be a Kamara clone to be used in a similar manner in another team’s offense?  Is it not possible for a RB not named Kamara to accumulate catches out of the backfield?  Someone had better notify McCaffrey.  For Pete’s sake.  This thread is quickly evolving into guys just begging to get into huge pissing contests over seemingly inconsequential or nonsensical positions.
Understood you were making the comp to Kamara's usage, not style or ability. I intended to point out his usage results from his effectiveness, and the rarity of a such caliber player of coming from 3rd+ round. Most of the running backs catching so many passes: Gurley, Barkley, McCaffrey - top 15 picks.

The word 'possible' is used quite a bit in this thread. I can't argue with possibility; anything could happen. So yeah, it's possible the Rams intend use Henderson like Kamara, and just so effectively. Is this most likely outcome, though?

 
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To be clear, the Rams brass are the persons comparing Henderson to Kamara, which has prompted the Kamara discussion. 

 
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I said I liked him.  Problem is people ARE comping him to Kamara and calling them similar based on a silly quote from the GM that just picked him.  If you want me to expand the list of who he's not, fine.  McCaffrey, Barkley, Gurley, Elliot, Mixon....basically any of the top backs now or over the last few years, he's not.  
So now the Rams GM is silly? 

Just clarifying here. 

 
If he thinks he just drafted Kamara then yes, but you already understood the point and didn't need to clarify.

How about comment on the comparison?  Just getting us back on track here.
I'm a Henderson fan - but this discussion is spinning out of control.

Kamara is bigger, stronger, has better lateral agility and is likely the better receiver. Henderson has better acceleration and possibly better straight-line speed overall.

They don't have to be the same player to fill similar roles. If Gurley is healthy (which is no sure thing) then he's a much bigger challenge to playing time than Ingram was - so maybe the "Kamara role" is not quite as big on the Rams or maybe Gurley's knee is bad and it's a much bigger role. Both are in great offenses (which helps) - both have some potentially elite attributes. We know Kamara is great at the NFL level - we don't know about Henderson yet.

 
I'm a Henderson fan - but this discussion is spinning out of control.

Kamara is bigger, stronger, has better lateral agility and is likely the better receiver. Henderson has better acceleration and possibly better straight-line speed overall.

They don't have to be the same player to fill similar roles. If Gurley is healthy (which is no sure thing) then he's a much bigger challenge to playing time than Ingram was - so maybe the "Kamara role" is not quite as big on the Rams or maybe Gurley's knee is bad and it's a much bigger role. Both are in great offenses (which helps) - both have some potentially elite attributes. We know Kamara is great at the NFL level - we don't know about Henderson yet.
I hear ya but strongly disagree with the bolded.  Long speed maybe equal, sure.

 
Understood you were making the comp to Kamara's usage, not style or ability. I intended to point out his usage results from his effectiveness, and the rarity of a such caliber player of coming from 3rd+ round. Most of the running backs catching so many passes: Gurley, Barkley, McCaffrey - top 15 picks.

The word 'possible' is used quite a bit in this thread. I can't argue with possibility; anything could happen. So yeah, it's possible the Rams intend use Henderson like Kamara, and just so effectively. Is this most likely outcome, though?


Of the 13 RBs who caught 60+ passes prorated to a 16 game season, 5 were 1st round picks, 2 were 2nd round picks, 2 were 3rd rounders, 3 were 4th rounders, and 1 was an UDFA.

So your assertion that it is rare that a RB who is a non-mid to high 1st rounder to accumulate a lot of catches is incorrect.  Further, just a bit under half the teams in the league had RBs with 60 or more prorated catches and one of them was the Rams.

 
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Of the 13 RBs who caught 60+ passes prorated to a 16 game season, 5 were 1st round picks, 2 were 2nd round picks, 2 were 3rd rounders, 3 were 4th rounders, and 1 was an UDFA.

So your assertion that it is rare that a RB who is a non-mid to high 1st rounder to accumulate a lot of catches is incorrect.  Further, just a bit under half the teams in the league had RBs with 60 or more prorated catches and one of them was the Rams.
Could have worded it better, but my overall point, the rarity of a 3rd+ rounder catching a lot of passes, still stands.

[ 5 / (count of 1st round rbs) ] >> [ 6 / (count of 3rd+ round rbs) ]

 
Henderson had a near record level 10 yards split and his acceleration is his strongest attribute. Kamara doesn't blow by guys but is more elusive.
I'm aware of the splits but the tape doesn't show the same thing and that's probably because it's rare for RBs to get in a track stance and start sprinting directly ahead unfettered in the football field.  Once you add in change of direction and start/stop requirements, Kamara moves into elite territory by a landslide.  I don't see that whatsoever form DH.

There are a handful of 5-10 yard TDs from AK last year where he fits and starts and weasels through the LOS and gets himself so free that he literally walks in.  Not from gaping holes, but from creation of separation.  That's the kinda thing I'm talking about here.  And the long list of highlights where he skips and slips and slithers his way through the 1st and 2nd level, all while stopping and starting, that's what Henderson can't do.  That's not even to mention the A++ hands, route running,  and flat out get open skills that AK has shown at the highest level that DH would be hard pressed to replicate at the pro level, particularly because he never really flashed them (again, at an elite trait level) in college.

But long speed, sure, I think they're pretty close.  Bet AK wins a footrace by a step but if you put em in a phone booth it's no contest.

 
There are a handful of 5-10 yard TDs from AK last year where he fits and starts and weasels through the LOS and gets himself so free that he literally walks in.  Not from gaping holes, but from creation of separation.  That's the kinda thing I'm talking about here.  And the long list of highlights where he skips and slips and slithers his way through the 1st and 2nd level, all while stopping and starting, that's what Henderson can't do. 
None of that is acceleration and I did say Kamara has better lateral agility and strength, so I agree.

 
In the quote I saw, the Rams GM didn't compare him to Kamara as a player. Far from it. He simply said they have plans to use Henderson as a Kamara-type element in their offense which essentially guarantees nothing.

If he DID compare Henderson to Kamara, he's not qualified to be a GM. That said, he DIDN'T compare him to Kamara. Totally different type of RB & different tier as a prospect.

This needs discussed because it's getting run & people are buying it. I'd venture to say it's the most ridiculous comparison I've seen on this board. Not only do they operate differently, Henderson can't hold Kamara's jock.

I'm down for discussing Henderson's strengths/weaknesses/situation, but the silliness detracts from the thread.

 
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In the quote I saw, the Rams GM didn't compare him to Kamara as a player. Far from it. He simply said they have plans to use Henderson as a Kamara-type element in their offense which essentially guarantees nothing.

If he DID compare Henderson to Kamara, he's not qualified to be a GM. That said, he DIDN'T compare him to Kamara. Totally different type of RB & different tier as a prospect.

This needs discussed because it's getting run & people are buying it. I'd venture to say it's the most ridiculous comparison I've seen on this board. Not only do they operate differently, Henderson can't hold Kamara's jock.

I'm down for discussing Henderson's strengths/weaknesses/situation, but the silliness detracts from the thread.
This is all true.  Problem is a few people saw the two players in the same sentence and here we are.

 
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I'm aware of the splits but the tape doesn't show the same thing and that's probably because it's rare for RBs to get in a track stance and start sprinting directly ahead unfettered in the football field.  Once you add in change of direction and start/stop requirements, Kamara moves into elite territory by a landslide.  I don't see that whatsoever form DH.

There are a handful of 5-10 yard TDs from AK last year where he fits and starts and weasels through the LOS and gets himself so free that he literally walks in.  Not from gaping holes, but from creation of separation.  That's the kinda thing I'm talking about here.  And the long list of highlights where he skips and slips and slithers his way through the 1st and 2nd level, all while stopping and starting, that's what Henderson can't do.  That's not even to mention the A++ hands, route running,  and flat out get open skills that AK has shown at the highest level that DH would be hard pressed to replicate at the pro level, particularly because he never really flashed them (again, at an elite trait level) in college.

But long speed, sure, I think they're pretty close.  Bet AK wins a footrace by a step but if you put em in a phone booth it's no contest.
You have a good point about the tape which trumps metrics. Henderson doesn't show "one of the best-ever" 10 yard split ability on the field.

 
For anyone and everyone that wants to compare DH and Kamara, I issue a challenge.

Go watch both of their game tape, back to back.  Then watch again.  And again.  It probably won't take three views to let the air out of that balloon but they are not all that similar and it's quickly obvious that AK is a different tier of athlete.  Much, much more slippery and elusive and far quicker.  The extra burst is obvious. A smarter runner too when choosing lanes and setting up angles.

I say this as someone who actually likes DH and would consider taking him around the 1.06, 1.07 spot.  If Gurley's knee falls off and he becomes their top option, he'll probably put up a back end RB 1 season,  but I'll firmly say he'll never be an elite fantasy option.  Forget Kamara, ain't happening.  It's a ridiculous comp.  
Good discussion. I’d agree with the comments calling Kamara slippery. His balance through contact let’s him just slip through tackles and is truly elite. Slippery is a great word to express that. That with his +++ hands and route running makes him who he is in my mind. I don’t think he’s particularly shake and bake elusive or quick. He’s got fine burst and is really strong in the lower half allowing him to step through tackles when combined with his balance. He doesn’t really juke to avoid them though. I guess that’s splitting hairs between being elusive and slippery but in this thread it seems like splitting hairs is the trendy thing to do. The excellent vision and patience surely helps too.

I’m almost in complete agreement with Dr O’s quote highlighting some of Henderson’s strengths too. I think Henderson has more burst and would win against Kamara in a 10 or 20 yard sprint whether starting in a sprinters stance or being handed a football and doing it. I see it when I watch them on film and it’s backed up by his 40 yard splits and his success running and getting the edge on outside zone runs. That doesn’t make him Kamara or better than Kamara but to me that is a really important trait. I think Henderson also has good vision and good instincts as far as setting up angles in the open field and his burst let’s him beat the angles defenders take on him. Again in the open field. Huge edge to Kamara as far as vision and patience in traffic.

 
In the quote I saw, the Rams GM didn't compare him to Kamara as a player. Far from it. He simply said they have plans to use Henderson as a Kamara-type element in their offense which essentially guarantees nothing.

If he DID compare Henderson to Kamara, he's not qualified to be a GM. That said, he DIDN'T compare him to Kamara. Totally different type of RB & different tier as a prospect.

This needs discussed because it's getting run & people are buying it. I'd venture to say it's the most ridiculous comparison I've seen on this board. Not only do they operate differently, Henderson can't hold Kamara's jock.

I'm down for discussing Henderson's strengths/weaknesses/situation, but the silliness detracts from the thread.
Right, it’s Kamara type usage not actually being like Kamara as a player. But they are similar level prospects coming out of college. Kamara was taken 67th and Henderson was taken 70th. 

 
You have a good point about the tape which trumps metrics. Henderson doesn't show "one of the best-ever" 10 yard split ability on the field.
Your opinion and one that a lot of people seem to disagree with. But keep shouting it.

edit- because I’d rather not get caught up in defending whether Henderson’s on field tape shows one of the best ever 10 yard splits, I’ll clarify that his measured 10 yard split was one of the best ever. What I see on tape is elite burst. One of the best ever? I dunno.

 
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So now the Rams GM is silly? 

Just clarifying here. 
I havent known him to make a positive statement about any player. It's a good strategy: be down on everyone. chances of being right then are drastically better. I've blocked him to avoid these kinds of meaningless pissing contests. 

 
I've focused on Henderson's physical traits, but a little more about why I'm not nearly as high on him as the FF community in general...

Memphis had a dominant OL last season, in part due to talent & in part due to inferior competition. I saw a stat that essentially translated to him having the biggest holes to work with in all of the FBS last season (which is evident on film). In short, I can't remember a RB prospect with as an inflated production-to-talent ratio as Henderson. 

That said, he does have some things going for him for sure. In a specific role, Henderson could produce as a pro & he'll be helped by the Rams offense, but I'm really surprised by the kind of long-term feature back upside expressed in this thread.

 
That said, he does have some things going for him for sure. In a specific role, Henderson could produce as a pro & he'll be helped by the Rams offense, but I'm really surprised by the kind of long-term feature back upside expressed in this thread.
Not trying to be cute, but would the Rams have invested this draft pick in Henderson if they thought he wouldn't have long term utility greater than a change of pace back?  My guess is no.  And I've been betting on that guess in best ball leagues in the 7th/8th round.

At a minimum he will be a complimentary piece to Gurley and if Gurley's knee is troublesome he could be a straight up league winner if the cards stack up right.

 
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I havent known him to make a positive statement about any player. It's a good strategy: be down on everyone. chances of being right then are drastically better. I've blocked him to avoid these kinds of meaningless pissing contests. 
I post about things that interest me. One of them is when I see a big difference in how I view someone & how the general FF community views them. That's why I'm interested in Henderson.

BTW, my track record speaks for itself, concerning both players I've liked & disliked, but the focus should be on Henderson, not me.

 
Right, it’s Kamara type usage not actually being like Kamara as a player. But they are similar level prospects coming out of college. Kamara was taken 67th and Henderson was taken 70th. 
“Kamara usage” can mean a lot of things, and I think that’s why we’re all getting something different out of it. Does it refer to snap count? Formation? Target share? Touch volume? COP back?

In this class alone, at least 3 teams have used the Kamara comparison on 3 very different backs - Pollard, Henderson, Jacobs. Pundits and commentators use it way too much, too.

Hard to know what it means, if anything.

 
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Not trying to be cute, but would the Rams have invested this draft pick in Henderson if they thought he wouldn't have long term utility greater than a change of pace back?  My guess is no.  And I've been betting on that guess in best ball leagues in the 7th/8th round.

At a minimum he will be a complimentary piece to Gurley and if Gurley's knee is troublesome he could be a straight up league winner if the cards stack up right.
The Rams have been unusually clear that Henderson is considered a COP.

They're a Super Bowl contender & are adding pieces. It makes complete sense. They've been looking for a good COP since McVay got there.

 
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The Rams have been unusually clear that Henderson is considered a COP.

They're a Super Bowl contender & are adding pieces. It makes complete sense. They've been looking for a good COP since McVey got there.
what do you estimate his touches per game at for 2019 ?

 

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