RB Doug Martin, Free Agent (1 Viewer)

[Grahamburn]

I'm just complaining about that specific play call. What they've been doing with Sims and Martin has been working extremely well. Now with Murphy out and Jackson somewhat nicked I'm hoping to see a lot more of both of them on the field at the same time.

 

[FF Ninja]

They are forcing Sims the ball because Martin will be a FA next year.

wouldn't they ride the guy leaving to conserve the guy staying

Maybe they are trying to see if Sims can take over or if they need to draft someone, sign someone, or re-sign Martin. Personally, I don't think Sims is lead back material.

 

[bostonfred]

Funny how Bostonfred and the rest of the haters have kept their yaps shut lately about the current #3 RB not even being a RB2

Well, two things. First, I don't think I'm a hater. At least, I wasn't intending to be. I was making a point that I've found really helpful for ff in general, but the guy I happened to make the point about has done well. I stand by the point, but Martin is obviously exceeding my expectations. It happens.

Second, I am still not sold on Martin, although he's done really well the last few weeks. I still don't trust him, and if I were going out of my way to trade for a rb, he wouldn't be my target. He's had some very good games recently, sure, but he's always had good games. The question is always how often and how predictably he would have them. So far, the answer has been pretty often, and pretty predictably against bad defenses, which is awesome. But that has not been the trend in his career. Maybe he's turned a corner. Maybe he hasn't. I understand the optimism, and congrats to the guys who've enjoyed his success so far.

 

[iamkoza]

Funny how Bostonfred and the rest of the haters have kept their yaps shut lately about the current #3 RB not even being a RB2

Well, two things.First, I don't think I'm a hater. At least, I wasn't intending to be. I was making a point that I've found really helpful for ff in general, but the guy I happened to make the point about has done well. I stand by the point, but Martin is obviously exceeding my expectations. It happens.

Second, I am still not sold on Martin, although he's done really well the last few weeks. I still don't trust him, and if I were going out of my way to trade for a rb, he wouldn't be my target. He's had some very good games recently, sure, but he's always had good games. The question is always how often and how predictably he would have them. So far, the answer has been pretty often, and pretty predictably against bad defenses, which is awesome. But that has not been the trend in his career. Maybe he's turned a corner. Maybe he hasn't. I understand the optimism, and congrats to the guys who've enjoyed his success so far.

at least martin has had an excellent season in his past... sure he followed up that season with 1 injured season and one awful season... but it's not like he hasnt been a rb1 before. i took a flier on him pre-week 4 when he got dropped and have obviously gotten an incredible return thus far. of course i don't trust 100% the production so far... it'd be hard to forget the last 2 years of struggles... but his schedule ROS is pretty decent (save for week 15 @ STL)... there is a decent chance he remains a viable low end RB1

 

[JuniorNB]

Funny how Bostonfred and the rest of the haters have kept their yaps shut lately about the current #3 RB not even being a RB2

Well, two things.First, I don't think I'm a hater. At least, I wasn't intending to be. I was making a point that I've found really helpful for ff in general, but the guy I happened to make the point about has done well. I stand by the point, but Martin is obviously exceeding my expectations. It happens.

Second, I am still not sold on Martin, although he's done really well the last few weeks. I still don't trust him, and if I were going out of my way to trade for a rb, he wouldn't be my target. He's had some very good games recently, sure, but he's always had good games. The question is always how often and how predictably he would have them. So far, the answer has been pretty often, and pretty predictably against bad defenses, which is awesome. But that has not been the trend in his career. Maybe he's turned a corner. Maybe he hasn't. I understand the optimism, and congrats to the guys who've enjoyed his success so far.

at least martin has had an excellent season in his past... sure he followed up that season with 1 injured season and one awful season... but it's not like he hasnt been a rb1 before. i took a flier on him pre-week 4 when he got dropped and have obviously gotten an incredible return thus far. of course i don't trust 100% the production so far... it'd be hard to forget the last 2 years of struggles... but his schedule ROS is pretty decent (save for week 15 @ STL)... there is a decent chance he remains a viable low end RB1

Absolutely. There may be three or four backs running as well as him right now. One of the steals of the draft so far.

 

[urbanhack]

Funny how Bostonfred and the rest of the haters have kept their yaps shut lately about the current #3 RB not even being a RB2

Well, two things.First, I don't think I'm a hater. At least, I wasn't intending to be. I was making a point that I've found really helpful for ff in general, but the guy I happened to make the point about has done well. I stand by the point, but Martin is obviously exceeding my expectations. It happens.

Second, I am still not sold on Martin,

come on Fred!

 

[JuniorNB]

Funny how Bostonfred and the rest of the haters have kept their yaps shut lately about the current #3 RB not even being a RB2

Well, two things.First, I don't think I'm a hater. At least, I wasn't intending to be. I was making a point that I've found really helpful for ff in general, but the guy I happened to make the point about has done well. I stand by the point, but Martin is obviously exceeding my expectations. It happens.

Second, I am still not sold on Martin,

come on Fred!

What do you expect him to say? He got destroyed in this thread. He's not going to admit that.

 

[bostonfred]

I do stand by the point I was making, which wasn't about Martin at all. At this point in the season, it looks like I chose the wrong player to make the point about. But I am and was sincerely interested in the process, not the specific player. It's a shame these discussions always seem to go this way.

 

[Grahamburn]

The most interesting thing to me is even with every fantasy player mining for countless tidbits of information on players the signs were often still ignored with Doug Martin. Mostly, as evidenced in this thread, because people had been burned by him in the past two seasons.

OTA information on him was positive. Training camp information on him was positive. Preseason game carries were positive. He looked great. Then even in the regular season when he started "slow" it was obvious these games were coming. He has just looked fantastic across the board. The fact so many people ignored it amazed me.

It just goes to show you how much value can still be had in this hobby if you're paying attention and are willing to put your biases aside.

 

[FF Ninja]

I do stand by the point I was making, which wasn't about Martin at all. At this point in the season, it looks like I chose the wrong player to make the point about. But I am and was sincerely interested in the process, not the specific player. It's a shame these discussions always seem to go this way.

Your process was very long, so didn't read all of it, but wasn't your plan to basically avoid RBs in Doug's ranking/ADP range? I think the main flaw in that would be that you are basing your drafting off of others' opinions. I've always tailored my redraft plan to each specific season due to certain players I feel are a value. This year I really liked Doug and Ivory near their ADP, so I made a plan around drafting one of them as part of my core team. I have one of them in every league. Really wish I'd snagged both. Anyway, if that was indeed the process you were talking about, I think it is deeply flawed.

 

[mr roboto]

The most interesting thing to me is even with every fantasy player mining for countless tidbits of information on players the signs were often still ignored with Doug Martin. Mostly, as evidenced in this thread, because people had been burned by him in the past two seasons.

OTA information on him was positive. Training camp information on him was positive. Preseason game carries were positive. He looked great. Then even in the regular season when he started "slow" it was obvious these games were coming. He has just looked fantastic across the board. The fact so many people ignored it amazed me.

It just goes to show you how much value can still be had in this hobby if you're paying attention and are willing to put your biases aside. let go of grudges and take each year as a fresh one.

Slight correction. People were burned by Martin in the past. That pisses people off. They peg a guy as a bum and write him off.

 

[FF Ninja]

The most interesting thing to me is even with every fantasy player mining for countless tidbits of information on players the signs were often still ignored with Doug Martin. Mostly, as evidenced in this thread, because people had been burned by him in the past two seasons.

OTA information on him was positive. Training camp information on him was positive. Preseason game carries were positive. He looked great. Then even in the regular season when he started "slow" it was obvious these games were coming. He has just looked fantastic across the board. The fact so many people ignored it amazed me.

It just goes to show you how much value can still be had in this hobby if you're paying attention and are willing to put your biases aside.

Well, to play devil's advocate, training camp pieces are almost always positive and preseason reps are a very small sample size against vanilla defenses. What we saw from that was positive but hardly conclusive - for me it made zero impact on my value for him but did make me feel better about the value I had already determined. I was going to target him at the same position even if his preseason was meh.

What people ignored was the change in system - he's been plagued with poor offensive philosophy the past three years. One... let's say "uninformed"... troll I was debating with earlier in this thread kept ignoring the previous systems, claiming that was me "making excuses." But the truth is, most RBs are only as good as their system. I still don't think Martin is a special talent who can make it happen on his own, but you put him in an average offense and give him enough touches and he'll produce.

Koetter's offense really turned the corner once Evans got back and Winston got more comfortable. The blocking seemed to get better and should only improve as Mankins gets reintegrated. It would be nice to see Martin get more of Sims' snaps so he can get a few more targets and not tip TB's hand as much, because currently he's touching the ball over 50% of the time when he's on the field. At some point defenses will take note of that and look to shut him down. His blocking has been very good this year, so I don't see why they don't leave him in more on passing plays.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

I do stand by the point I was making, which wasn't about Martin at all. At this point in the season, it looks like I chose the wrong player to make the point about. But I am and was sincerely interested in the process, not the specific player. It's a shame these discussions always seem to go this way.

So while I was 'sold' on Martin for 2015, I do also see your point about the previous two seasons and the volatility of his production. You had to have perseverance to realize his good outings in 2013/2014.

However:

1) By virtue of supply and demand, 24-36 RB's have to be on gameday rosters in 12-team leagues. I get what you are saying in that perhaps alot of the weeks, Martin is an RB3/RB4 producer and that here and there, he puts up a big week to give him an overall RB2 ranking. But isn't that the nature of RB2's? The alternative is getting a guy who produces RB2-like weekly which generally means that player is generally uninspriring.

2) Contract year: Martin is really playing for his big $$ contract, or at least as big as RB contracts get these days. If Martin puts forth another 2014, he's on the street scrounging for 1 year deals as a guy who once upon a time as a rookie, really showed something. So the stories about Martin's focus, dedication, etc...while part of the onslaught of TC puff pieces, also held a shred of key information. Martin had 8 figures worth of $$$ to be motivated by and realize a level of production he once showed.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The most interesting thing to me is even with every fantasy player mining for countless tidbits of information on players the signs were often still ignored with Doug Martin. Mostly, as evidenced in this thread, because people had been burned by him in the past two seasons.

OTA information on him was positive. Training camp information on him was positive. Preseason game carries were positive. He looked great. Then even in the regular season when he started "slow" it was obvious these games were coming. He has just looked fantastic across the board. The fact so many people ignored it amazed me.

It just goes to show you how much value can still be had in this hobby if you're paying attention and are willing to put your biases aside.

I've held Martin this entire time and am thrilled with what he's doing this year, but let's be fair here. There are positive tidbits about a gajillion players every offseason and the vast majority of them don't work out. If positive offseason tidbits consistently led to great fantasy production then Sammy Watkins, CJ Anderson, and James White would be dominating fantasy circles right now.

The reality of the issue, IMHO and as I've been arguing all along, is that Doug Martin has never really played that poorly. Rather, Tampa Bay has been a dumpster-fire, particularly at the O-line, and seems to have turned a corner there this year. Charles Sims is a much worse runner than Doug Martin but his efficiency has similarly improved over his numbers last year (Sims is averaging 1ypc more than he was last year, Martin is averaging 1.3ypc better than he was last year).

Martin has always been a good running back and he finally has a line to let him do his thing again.

 

[Grahamburn]

When the positive tidbits were confirmed on the field people still doubted him.

 

[Pietaster2]

Rough day.

I know he had a terrible fumble and got benched in the second quarter but didn't see the rest of the game. Does it look like Sims stole the job away today? Did Martin look ok for the parts of the game he actually played?

I really didn't expect this after the monster games Martin's been having this year. What a quick turn of events!

 

[duaneok66]

He didn't get benched.

 

[mr roboto]

They stopped running the ball.

 

[Pietaster2]

Thanks guys. Good to know it was gameflow and not due to a benching for Sims. Maybe this game was an aberration then.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

 

[Andrew74]

nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care.

Yet you just wrote a novella about how you were right. Just embrace that you're that guy - it's okay.

 

[JuniorNB]

nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care.

Yet you just wrote a novella about how you were right. Just embrace that you're that guy - it's okay.

after disappearing for 6 weeks when the guy was tearing it up. Lol.

 

[Grahamburn]

He's had that typed up in Word for a month waiting for a bad game.

 

[JuniorNB]

He's had that typed up in Word for a month waiting for a bad game.

lol. He's hilarious. JV indeed

 

[shadyridr]

LmfO I'm not trying to pound my chest yet this is the first time you posted in here in weeks

 

[BustedKnuckles]

he was benched ....i hope it got his attention

 

[Grahamburn]

Martin and Sims have been alternating series all year.

 

[FF Ninja]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care.

Yet you just wrote a novella about how you were right. Just embrace that you're that guy - it's okay.

after disappearing for 6 weeks when the guy was tearing it up. Lol.

That is absolutely bogus. I came on this thread when he had a solid game had no problem giving him and his owners props. Go back up and re-read through this thread and you can remind yourself of it. The reason why I didn't post in this thread for a while is because you and many of other Martin supporters seem to find it appropriate to believe so hard in your opnions that you go to the point of insulting anybody with a difffering one. Yes--while I have an opposing point of view about Martin--at least my view invites discussion--not the garbage way that you supporters try to clown anybody with a somewhat differing one. The only reason I posted last night was that there were some people that were saying that he was not benched yesterday---which was false. He was benched until SIms fumbled--and I wanted to make sure that people who didn't watch the game knew that he was indeed benched.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care.

Yet you just wrote a novella about how you were right. Just embrace that you're that guy - it's okay.

I wrote a novela clarifying wrong information about Martin--he was benched. The second point was I was making was that nobody should be insulted for an opinion. I could care less if I am wrong or right about Martin. I hope the dude finishes the year strong and brings his owners championships. Nobody has ever been perfect in their fantasy projections--but what is 100% wrong is insulting people for having a differing projection. The overall theme in the Shark Pool as of late is that good civil discussion with differing points of view has been replaced with snarky, insulting, univiting banter--and I personally don't think there is room for this type of attitude. I'm sorry if that offends you.

 

[JuniorNB]

nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care.

Yet you just wrote a novella about how you were right. Just embrace that you're that guy - it's okay.

after disappearing for 6 weeks when the guy was tearing it up. Lol.

That is absolutely bogus. I came on this thread when he had a solid game had no problem giving him and his owners props. Go back up and re-read through this thread and you can remind yourself of it. The reason why I didn't post in this thread for a while is because you and many of other Martin supporters seem to find it appropriate to believe so hard in your opnions that you go to the point of insulting anybody with a difffering one. Yes--while I have an opposing point of view about Martin--at least my view invites discussion--not the garbage way that you supporters try to clown anybody with a somewhat differing one. The only reason I posted last night was that there were some people that were saying that he was not benched yesterday---which was false. He was benched until SIms fumbled--and I wanted to make sure that people who didn't watch the game knew that he was indeed benched.

Where were you all the weeks he was tearing it up? You were in hiding, because you looked like such a fool all season. The first bad game he has, you're back. That's the very definition of a troll.

Get lost. No one here takes you seriously. You offer nothing.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

 

[JuniorNB]

I sense tears. I'm out.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Martin's season is going to be one where all of his owners get disgusted with his 50 yard/no touchdown games and finally put him on the bench (which is exactly where I am). Then, naturally, he will have 120 yards and a score on the bench. Thus, he will be thrown back into the starting lineup and reward us with 50 yards and no touchdowns. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Wow--seems odd that you post this after you and a few other members clowned me for saying the EXACT same thing from the very beginning. Not only did you trash this same opinion of mine earlier--you and a few other members went so far as to make personal attacks to where the Football Guys Moderators had to remove them for being completely out of line. I just find it funny that you now say the same thing about Martin as I did as if it is your own take. Honestly--I have no desire to make this an "I told you so" moment--but I do have a desire to make it a moment to remind members that there is no place for clowning another member or making personal attacks to another member for having a differing point of view. First of all--it's not polite nor is it professional--and secondly--there will be times where the predicitons of the person that you were clowning are right and you will be the one that looks like a clown.

Now to Martin---I do see that other members have posted that they have dropped him--and I do want to say to be careful about doing that. If you play in a 10-12 team league---there will likely be an owner or two that will "bite" on him after he does have one of his big games. If you go back through and read my posts--I have always said Martin has some big games in him--it's owning him and trying to predict when those big games are that is mind numbing. This however does not mean that he carries no value to everybody and anybody. If you play in a league where the trading activity is even moderate--and if you have the roster space to keep him--I would say to do so until he has one of his big games. Many leagues will have an owner in them that will make the mistake of seeing his next big game as a sign that he's reverting back to his rookie year form--as opposed to realizing that his rookie season is looking more and more like an outlier. Basically what I'm saying is that the "value" that the fantasy community sees him having makes him rosterable (unless you have a small league or very short benches)---but not very easily startable.

Today he had that big game the fantasy world was waiting for. Congrats to the owners that played him--as it wasn't an easy decision. As I have always said--the toughest part of owning him will be what to do after he does have that big breakout game. Today is the day--do you decide to trust him--or do you decide to capitalize on his value rising? I think that I've made clear why I would probably shop him after his big game---but congrats to the owners that were patient enough to roster him this long to be in a position to make a decision. I know that I'll get labelled as being a hater for my point of view on todays game--but today the stars lined up for him. This game basically featured 3 quarters of garbage time. Jameis throws four ints--one of which is a pick 6--and carolinas D was playing "bend but don't break" for much of the game. The key is that Tampa didn't take Doug out of the game when it was out of hand--so that is a positive for him. You basically have a game against a soft defense for 3 out of 4 quarters--but to his credit--Martin capitalized on it. I don't like when people make excuses for a lack of fantasy production--and I'm certainly not going to make an excuse for Martins solid fantasy production today--he got his owners points--and if he was on their benches--he at least got them value. I'm curious to see how owners choose to act with him from this point on.

The problem isn't that he's been inconsistent this year. It's that he's been inconsistent every year. There are tangible reasons. He's not that good. Tampa isn't that good. He may not be their starter all season.

Worse, it's really hard to play match-ups. 100 yards and a td in a loss to Carolina? Which match up do you think is a good one for him?

Maybe Winston gets better, and a rising tide lifts all boats. But the most obvious boat is Mike Evans, and he's a touchdown machine. That's not great for Martin, who really isn't. But maybe her gets more catches. Except they seem to be using Sims more.

For Martin to have a good season, he probably needs to get better individually, which is certainly possible - it's a contract year, and people talked him up since training camp. But we have years of evidence that he's just not talented enough to be good on a bad team. The bucs kind of agree, since they didn't pick up the option on his contract.

Sell while you can. This is the peak of his value.

I actually agree with you on a lot of points. If you read my earlier posts in this thread--you'll find that I've been so skeptical on Martin that I was labelled as being a "hater". My point of view is that Martin is a very hard guy to own because when you start him--he gets you a lot of RB4 type games--and when you bench him--he puts up an RB1 type game to give you hope. Once you chase that "hope"--he historically has reverted back to some of his RB4 type games again--and the cycle repeats. If Martin owners believe that he'll have a bad game this week (maybe 7-8 fantasy points or less in ppr formats)--then yes---they should look to sell him this week if possible.

However---if you are a Martin owner and believe that he'll have a decent game against the Jags--then you should definitely hold. If Martin has another solid game this week (I'd say 14 or more fantasy points in PPR formats)--his value will explode in the fantasy world. My best advice to Martin owners is not to project him for the rest of the season--as that is nearly impossible to predict for the unstable Bucs. Instead--try to project him and his outlook for this upcoming week--and use this projection to determine if you feel you should trade him now--or after week 4.

The problem isn't that he's been inconsistent this year. It's that he's been inconsistent every year. There are tangible reasons. He's not that good. Tampa isn't that good. He may not be their starter all season.

Worse, it's really hard to play match-ups. 100 yards and a td in a loss to Carolina? Which match up do you think is a good one for him?

Maybe Winston gets better, and a rising tide lifts all boats. But the most obvious boat is Mike Evans, and he's a touchdown machine. That's not great for Martin, who really isn't. But maybe her gets more catches. Except they seem to be using Sims more.

For Martin to have a good season, he probably needs to get better individually, which is certainly possible - it's a contract year, and people talked him up since training camp. But we have years of evidence that he's just not talented enough to be good on a bad team. The bucs kind of agree, since they didn't pick up the option on his contract.

Sell while you can. This is the peak of his value.

I actually agree with you on a lot of points. If you read my earlier posts in this thread--you'll find that I've been so skeptical on Martin that I was labelled as being a "hater". My point of view is that Martin is a very hard guy to own because when you start him--he gets you a lot of RB4 type games--and when you bench him--he puts up an RB1 type game to give you hope. Once you chase that "hope"--he historically has reverted back to some of his RB4 type games again--and the cycle repeats. If Martin owners believe that he'll have a bad game this week (maybe 7-8 fantasy points or less in ppr formats)--then yes---they should look to sell him this week if possible.

However---if you are a Martin owner and believe that he'll have a decent game against the Jags--then you should definitely hold. If Martin has another solid game this week (I'd say 14 or more fantasy points in PPR formats)--his value will explode in the fantasy world. My best advice to Martin owners is not to project him for the rest of the season--as that is nearly impossible to predict for the unstable Bucs. Instead--try to project him and his outlook for this upcoming week--and use this projection to determine if you feel you should trade him now--or after week 4.

I tend to disagree about Martin being a hard guy to own.

Him, Hyde, Blount, ect. are easy to own because you just start them when game flow is projected to go one way and sit them when it's projected to go the opposite. Obviously this would mean that you shouldn't invest too much capital to acquire them since they shouldn't be an every week starter but when the situation looks favorable these guys have quite a bit of upside relative to other similar performing RBs. For example, in a standard league where you have to start 2 RBs, I would rather have Blount or Doug Martin as my RB3 than a Lamar Miller or a Jstew because there will be some weeks where Blount/Martin will have enough upside to feel comfortable starting them as an RB2 and can bail and sit them on the other weeks.

Martin is only a hard guy to own if you drafted weak at RB and are forced to rely on him as an RB2.

I actually disagree with you big time solely in regards to your take on Martin in standard leagues. Standard leagues are very touchdown dependent--and Martin has had a total of like 4 td's in his last 20 games. In a standard league--at this point in time--if I had to choose between a guy like Miller or Doug--give me Lamar all day. I have more faith in Tannehill than I do Jameis--and I like Millers chance of turning it around this season under new coaching. With that being said- you do bring up some fair points.

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

What point are you trying to make here? He's RB6 with half the season in the books.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

What point are you trying to make here? He's RB6 with half the season in the books.

My only point is that he's still a very hard guy to start with confidence. I've always said that he has lots of big games in him. The dynamics of Tampa Bay are that he's the type of player that has a really low floor and a really high ceiling. Overall--he's having a very solid season. For a guy that is the 6th ranked running back--he's just a player that a lot of his owners never feel really comfortable about starting. With that being said--he's rewarded his owners with solid production this season. I'm not doubting that.

 

[FF Ninja]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

So ridiculous. I said something along the lines of "Why do you hate Doug so much? Did he boink your mom?" That is obviously not serious and obviously not an insult to your actual family and it is ridiculous to report it and ridiculous a mod would give me a warning for it.

Something else that is a joke is that you think nobody besides you took into account his past performance. We ALL did, but we also took into account the circumstances surrounding that performance whereas you just looked at the box scores. Funny you act like Sims' ADP before the preseason has any impact on his role on an NFL team or his or Martin's fantasy football success this season. That's not analysis, man. So I'm supposed to alter my analysis of the situation in Tampa based on some guy's fantasy ADP in the offseason?? Solid logic. Sims was a totally ineffective runner last year and has proven to be a significantly less effective runner than Doug this year (was again below 4 ypc before his 59 yard scamper this week). My analysis that Sims would primarily dominate the 3rd down role with a small role in the rushing game was correct. Martin is a top 10 back so far this year despite a rocky start for this offense. Things should only stabilize as the season progresses and Winston gets more comfortable. One thing that really hurt them this past week, was a crazy amount of dropped passes: Mike Evans drops six passes

I am tempted to ridicule you for your spelling of "riducule", though, but instead I'll just focus on the fact that you should stop trolling here and move on.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

So ridiculous. I said something along the lines of "Why do you hate Doug so much? Did he boink your mom?" That is obviously not serious and obviously not an insult to your actual family and it is ridiculous to report it and ridiculous a mod would give me a warning for it.

Something else that is a joke is that you think nobody besides you took into account his past performance. We ALL did, but we also took into account the circumstances surrounding that performance whereas you just looked at the box scores. Funny you act like Sims' ADP before the preseason has any impact on his role on an NFL team or his or Martin's fantasy football success this season. That's not analysis, man. So I'm supposed to alter my analysis of the situation in Tampa based on some guy's fantasy ADP in the offseason?? Solid logic. Sims was a totally ineffective runner last year and has proven to be a significantly less effective runner than Doug this year (was again below 4 ypc before his 59 yard scamper this week). My analysis that Sims would primarily dominate the 3rd down role with a small role in the rushing game was correct. Martin is a top 10 back so far this year despite a rocky start for this offense. Things should only stabilize as the season progresses and Winston gets more comfortable. One thing that really hurt them this past week, was a crazy amount of dropped passes: Mike Evans drops six passes

I am tempted to ridicule you for your spelling of "riducule", though, but instead I'll just focus on the fact that you should stop trolling here and move on.

Make fun of my spelling all you want. It's all you have. I have no problem admitting that my grammar suffers when I try to type from a smart phone. Martin has played in 9 games this season. For 4 of those games--his production was amazingly good for his owners--easy RB1 numbers. For another four of those games--his numbers have been soo horrid that--he would have barely been startable as an RB4. In one game this season--he had a typical RB2 game. I agree with you that he's been very solid this season--and I agree that he can get better as the seaoson progresses. Tampa has a favorable schedule. However--Martin has been the very definition of what I said from the very beginning. He will have huge weeks--and he'll have weeks to where his production makes him barely startable. Am I wrong with this anallysis of his first 9 weeks? Do I need to copy and paste what I said about his week to week variance--or is that something that you aknoweldge that I said? You can call me a troll all you want--but go and look at his game log for this season and tell me that what I just said was wrong. In any case--we'll just choose to agree to disagree. I do think the pendulum swings to the direction of Martins production stabilizing as the season progresses--but even as an RB6 to this point of the season--his production has been either Dr. Jeckyl or Mr. Hyde.

 

[FF Ninja]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

So ridiculous. I said something along the lines of "Why do you hate Doug so much? Did he boink your mom?" That is obviously not serious and obviously not an insult to your actual family and it is ridiculous to report it and ridiculous a mod would give me a warning for it.

Something else that is a joke is that you think nobody besides you took into account his past performance. We ALL did, but we also took into account the circumstances surrounding that performance whereas you just looked at the box scores. Funny you act like Sims' ADP before the preseason has any impact on his role on an NFL team or his or Martin's fantasy football success this season. That's not analysis, man. So I'm supposed to alter my analysis of the situation in Tampa based on some guy's fantasy ADP in the offseason?? Solid logic. Sims was a totally ineffective runner last year and has proven to be a significantly less effective runner than Doug this year (was again below 4 ypc before his 59 yard scamper this week). My analysis that Sims would primarily dominate the 3rd down role with a small role in the rushing game was correct. Martin is a top 10 back so far this year despite a rocky start for this offense. Things should only stabilize as the season progresses and Winston gets more comfortable. One thing that really hurt them this past week, was a crazy amount of dropped passes: Mike Evans drops six passes

I am tempted to ridicule you for your spelling of "riducule", though, but instead I'll just focus on the fact that you should stop trolling here and move on.

Make fun of my spelling all you want. It's all you have. I have no problem admitting that my grammar suffers when I try to type from a smart phone. Martin has played in 9 games this season. For 4 of those games--his production was amazingly good for his owners--easy RB1 numbers. For another four of those games--his numbers have been soo horrid that--he would have barely been startable as an RB4. In one game this season--he had a typical RB2 game. I agree with you that he's been very solid this season--and I agree that he can get better as the seaoson progresses. Tampa has a favorable schedule. However--Martin has been the very definition of what I said from the very beginning. He will have huge weeks--and he'll have weeks to where his production makes him barely startable. Am I wrong with this anallysis of his first 9 weeks? Do I need to copy and paste what I said about his week to week variance--or is that something that you aknoweldge that I said? You can call me a troll all you want--but go and look at his game log for this season and tell me that what I just said was wrong. In any case--we'll just choose to agree to disagree. I do think the pendulum swings to the direction of Martins production stabilizing as the season progresses--but even as an RB6 to this point of the season--his production has been either Dr. Jeckyl or Mr. Hyde.

That's all I've got... plus all that other stuff I pointed out above. Look, only a couple elite RBs don't have a few bad games. As I and many other people said, Doug was a value play. None of us expected RB1 numbers but that's what we got so I don't know why you are still posting. What I posted a month ago still stands (see below). He compares very favorably with guys drafted around him. And hell, he's comparing very favorably to guys drafted in the top 12 at this point. Eddie Lacy owners would fall over themselves if we offered a trade.

Interesting thing about Martin for me is the fact that he's one of those players that seems to have a predjudice attached to him because of having fallen short of high expectations previously. In 2013, he was a consensus Top 5 pick and he underperformed before getting injured for the season. Which means alot of owners were really burned off that. 2014 wasn't much different although Martin's draft position had slid down from it's 2013 status down to Round 2/3. But again...owners that invested in him were sorely disappointed.

And so thru 3 games, when Martin didn't produce at least one solid/solid plus outing...I think there was a vocal group of FF owners who banged a 'here we go again' drum.

Having not owned Martin in 2013/2014, I'd not dealt with the aggravation of owning him. But obviously, he has a short fuse with many. Ultimately, his usage pattern to date seems like the Bucs are committed to getting him the ball (18 touches/game), but will not bellcow him. Big success factor for him will be Winston's development. But 18 touches is solid usage. Floor to me appears to be RB2 which is where he was drafted.

I'm in the same boat as you. I absolutely avoided him his whole career (never had faith in Schiano) but felt he'd reached a good value this year. As of 9/7/15, the FBG aggregate ADP for him was RB26 which seemed right at or below my anticipated floor for him in Dirk Koetter's offense, even with a rookie QB. Yet trolls will complain that his consistency isn't up to par (while not defining what par is that late in the RB player pool).

His first three games weren't great, but he hasn't exactly disappointed compared to his peers. Just for fun (not in response to the above quote) I'll break down the guys drafted around him with a wide berth:

RB14 - Gore - epitome of meh update: little less meh than before

RB15 - Morris - no TDs, rookie forcing RBBC, similar stats to Martin update: bust

RB16 - Gordon - similar, but worse stats than Martin update: bust, but not as bad as Morris

RB17 - Hyde - one big game, three clunkers update: 2 good games, 5 bad/mediocre games, now injured

RB18 - L.Murray - good, not great (lot of short rec if you get points for just catching them, very low YPR) update: similar to Martin

RB19 - Ellington - injured, TBD update: relegated to backup after injury, bust

RB20 - Stewart - between 50-82 yards each week, no TDs, pretty meh update: doing better, Martin still preferred

RB21 - Randle - scoring TDs the last two weeks has saved what has been a lackluster 4 game stretch, hold on starting job tenuous update: bust

RB22 - Foster - back early to a horrendous offense, TBD update: IR

RB23 - Gurley - came on strong week 4, TBD update: stud

RB24 - Abdullah - looks legit, but usage baffling (week 2 - 18 yards total) update: bust

RB25 - Yeldon - pretty much the same as Martin, but w/o a touchdown update: good, not great

RB26 - Martin - getting 18.5 touches a game, RB24 by average pts/gm in both formats (including current unstartables like DeAngelo, Andrews, Sankey, David Johnson, etc) update: top 12 in all formats; 3 bad games, 2 mediocre, 3 great

RB27 - Ivory - looks great, potential steal, week 3's active donut hurt, though update: stud

RB28 - Spiller - injured, slowly worked back in, TBD update: bust

RB29 - Bell - looks bad, now injured update: bust

RB30 - Blount - appears 2nd on the depth chart, but will score points unpredictably update: solid when in the game plan, but week 7: 3/-3/0

RB31 - Jennings - 3-way RBBC, 3.2 ypc update: still in RBBC hell

So even though people might not be happy with him, they probably wouldn't be that happy if they had taken someone else around him. And going forward, his situation looks much more predictable than a lot of those guys. Sims is getting snaps to pass block and catch a few passes, but he's looking as pedestrian as last year as a runner (3.4 ypc) despite being in a chance of pace role. Rainey is barely getting any snaps at all. Winston and the offense have looked poor, but at least we know it can't get much worse. The offense should improve as the year progresses.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

So ridiculous. I said something along the lines of "Why do you hate Doug so much? Did he boink your mom?" That is obviously not serious and obviously not an insult to your actual family and it is ridiculous to report it and ridiculous a mod would give me a warning for it.

Something else that is a joke is that you think nobody besides you took into account his past performance. We ALL did, but we also took into account the circumstances surrounding that performance whereas you just looked at the box scores. Funny you act like Sims' ADP before the preseason has any impact on his role on an NFL team or his or Martin's fantasy football success this season. That's not analysis, man. So I'm supposed to alter my analysis of the situation in Tampa based on some guy's fantasy ADP in the offseason?? Solid logic. Sims was a totally ineffective runner last year and has proven to be a significantly less effective runner than Doug this year (was again below 4 ypc before his 59 yard scamper this week). My analysis that Sims would primarily dominate the 3rd down role with a small role in the rushing game was correct. Martin is a top 10 back so far this year despite a rocky start for this offense. Things should only stabilize as the season progresses and Winston gets more comfortable. One thing that really hurt them this past week, was a crazy amount of dropped passes: Mike Evans drops six passes

I am tempted to ridicule you for your spelling of "riducule", though, but instead I'll just focus on the fact that you should stop trolling here and move on.

Make fun of my spelling all you want. It's all you have. I have no problem admitting that my grammar suffers when I try to type from a smart phone. Martin has played in 9 games this season. For 4 of those games--his production was amazingly good for his owners--easy RB1 numbers. For another four of those games--his numbers have been soo horrid that--he would have barely been startable as an RB4. In one game this season--he had a typical RB2 game. I agree with you that he's been very solid this season--and I agree that he can get better as the seaoson progresses. Tampa has a favorable schedule. However--Martin has been the very definition of what I said from the very beginning. He will have huge weeks--and he'll have weeks to where his production makes him barely startable. Am I wrong with this anallysis of his first 9 weeks? Do I need to copy and paste what I said about his week to week variance--or is that something that you aknoweldge that I said? You can call me a troll all you want--but go and look at his game log for this season and tell me that what I just said was wrong. In any case--we'll just choose to agree to disagree. I do think the pendulum swings to the direction of Martins production stabilizing as the season progresses--but even as an RB6 to this point of the season--his production has been either Dr. Jeckyl or Mr. Hyde.

Ok, Martin is up and down, and I think that those saying he was RB5 the rest of the way were being a bit optimistic. I am struggling with seeing more than 12 guys I feel more comfortable playing on a weekly basis. He seems like a pretty solid RB 2 on average going forward.

 

[Quez]

It seems like I just come into this thread to scroll down.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

So ridiculous. I said something along the lines of "Why do you hate Doug so much? Did he boink your mom?" That is obviously not serious and obviously not an insult to your actual family and it is ridiculous to report it and ridiculous a mod would give me a warning for it.

Something else that is a joke is that you think nobody besides you took into account his past performance. We ALL did, but we also took into account the circumstances surrounding that performance whereas you just looked at the box scores. Funny you act like Sims' ADP before the preseason has any impact on his role on an NFL team or his or Martin's fantasy football success this season. That's not analysis, man. So I'm supposed to alter my analysis of the situation in Tampa based on some guy's fantasy ADP in the offseason?? Solid logic. Sims was a totally ineffective runner last year and has proven to be a significantly less effective runner than Doug this year (was again below 4 ypc before his 59 yard scamper this week). My analysis that Sims would primarily dominate the 3rd down role with a small role in the rushing game was correct. Martin is a top 10 back so far this year despite a rocky start for this offense. Things should only stabilize as the season progresses and Winston gets more comfortable. One thing that really hurt them this past week, was a crazy amount of dropped passes: Mike Evans drops six passes

I am tempted to ridicule you for your spelling of "riducule", though, but instead I'll just focus on the fact that you should stop trolling here and move on.

Make fun of my spelling all you want. It's all you have. I have no problem admitting that my grammar suffers when I try to type from a smart phone. Martin has played in 9 games this season. For 4 of those games--his production was amazingly good for his owners--easy RB1 numbers. For another four of those games--his numbers have been soo horrid that--he would have barely been startable as an RB4. In one game this season--he had a typical RB2 game. I agree with you that he's been very solid this season--and I agree that he can get better as the seaoson progresses. Tampa has a favorable schedule. However--Martin has been the very definition of what I said from the very beginning. He will have huge weeks--and he'll have weeks to where his production makes him barely startable. Am I wrong with this anallysis of his first 9 weeks? Do I need to copy and paste what I said about his week to week variance--or is that something that you aknoweldge that I said? You can call me a troll all you want--but go and look at his game log for this season and tell me that what I just said was wrong. In any case--we'll just choose to agree to disagree. I do think the pendulum swings to the direction of Martins production stabilizing as the season progresses--but even as an RB6 to this point of the season--his production has been either Dr. Jeckyl or Mr. Hyde.

That's all I've got... plus all that other stuff I pointed out above. Look, only a couple elite RBs don't have a few bad games. As I and many other people said, Doug was a value play. None of us expected RB1 numbers but that's what we got so I don't know why you are still posting. What I posted a month ago still stands (see below). He compares very favorably with guys drafted around him. And hell, he's comparing very favorably to guys drafted in the top 12 at this point. Eddie Lacy owners would fall over themselves if we offered a trade.

Interesting thing about Martin for me is the fact that he's one of those players that seems to have a predjudice attached to him because of having fallen short of high expectations previously. In 2013, he was a consensus Top 5 pick and he underperformed before getting injured for the season. Which means alot of owners were really burned off that. 2014 wasn't much different although Martin's draft position had slid down from it's 2013 status down to Round 2/3. But again...owners that invested in him were sorely disappointed.

And so thru 3 games, when Martin didn't produce at least one solid/solid plus outing...I think there was a vocal group of FF owners who banged a 'here we go again' drum.

Having not owned Martin in 2013/2014, I'd not dealt with the aggravation of owning him. But obviously, he has a short fuse with many. Ultimately, his usage pattern to date seems like the Bucs are committed to getting him the ball (18 touches/game), but will not bellcow him. Big success factor for him will be Winston's development. But 18 touches is solid usage. Floor to me appears to be RB2 which is where he was drafted.

I'm in the same boat as you. I absolutely avoided him his whole career (never had faith in Schiano) but felt he'd reached a good value this year. As of 9/7/15, the FBG aggregate ADP for him was RB26 which seemed right at or below my anticipated floor for him in Dirk Koetter's offense, even with a rookie QB. Yet trolls will complain that his consistency isn't up to par (while not defining what par is that late in the RB player pool).

His first three games weren't great, but he hasn't exactly disappointed compared to his peers. Just for fun (not in response to the above quote) I'll break down the guys drafted around him with a wide berth:

RB14 - Gore - epitome of meh update: little less meh than before

RB15 - Morris - no TDs, rookie forcing RBBC, similar stats to Martin update: bust

RB16 - Gordon - similar, but worse stats than Martin update: bust, but not as bad as Morris

RB17 - Hyde - one big game, three clunkers update: 2 good games, 5 bad/mediocre games, now injured

RB18 - L.Murray - good, not great (lot of short rec if you get points for just catching them, very low YPR) update: similar to Martin

RB19 - Ellington - injured, TBD update: relegated to backup after injury, bust

RB20 - Stewart - between 50-82 yards each week, no TDs, pretty meh update: doing better, Martin still preferred

RB21 - Randle - scoring TDs the last two weeks has saved what has been a lackluster 4 game stretch, hold on starting job tenuous update: bust

RB22 - Foster - back early to a horrendous offense, TBD update: IR

RB23 - Gurley - came on strong week 4, TBD update: stud

RB24 - Abdullah - looks legit, but usage baffling (week 2 - 18 yards total) update: bust

RB25 - Yeldon - pretty much the same as Martin, but w/o a touchdown update: good, not great

RB26 - Martin - getting 18.5 touches a game, RB24 by average pts/gm in both formats (including current unstartables like DeAngelo, Andrews, Sankey, David Johnson, etc) update: top 12 in all formats; 3 bad games, 2 mediocre, 3 great

RB27 - Ivory - looks great, potential steal, week 3's active donut hurt, though update: stud

RB28 - Spiller - injured, slowly worked back in, TBD update: bust

RB29 - Bell - looks bad, now injured update: bust

RB30 - Blount - appears 2nd on the depth chart, but will score points unpredictably update: solid when in the game plan, but week 7: 3/-3/0

RB31 - Jennings - 3-way RBBC, 3.2 ypc update: still in RBBC hell

So even though people might not be happy with him, they probably wouldn't be that happy if they had taken someone else around him. And going forward, his situation looks much more predictable than a lot of those guys. Sims is getting snaps to pass block and catch a few passes, but he's looking as pedestrian as last year as a runner (3.4 ypc) despite being in a chance of pace role. Rainey is barely getting any snaps at all. Winston and the offense have looked poor, but at least we know it can't get much worse. The offense should improve as the year progresses.

Listen--I don't disagree with you. I admit that Martin has returned solid production for his owners. I understand that I've been painted as a troll this thread and regardless of what I say (regardless of how accurate it is)--people will discredit me for the sheer purpose of not agreeing with me. Frankly--I don't mind that. His production has been solid. I admit it---but he has been a tough "start". If you look at the dynamics of the season/fantasy season--I would bet that most of his owners had him on their benches on his "first" breakout game this season. This basically means that most of his owners got stuck with 4 really bad games from him, 3 really great games from him--and 1 decent game from him. His production so far this season has been elite--RB6 based on season totals. However-- the nature in which Martin rewards his owners is two faced. For most of his owners--he has hurt them in the same number(or more if they missed his first week) of fantasy weeks more than he has helped them. His presense has generally been either really positive or really negative--and he has had a hard time delivering "neutral" weeks. Even with him being the RB6 to this point this season--the only way that anybody would have had a real "net positive" from him was trying to accurately start him in the good weeks and avoid him in the bad ones. I do think that as the season progresses--he can limit the number of "negative" games and convert them to "neutral" ones--and when he does that--he'll be a huge asset. Me being critical of this very fact from the beginning of the season to this point in time--shouldn't make me a troll.

 

[Bayhawks]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

How has your analysis been the most complete? You focused on his past performance, and said discussion of new offense/OC/new teammates, etc were excuses.

You did EXACTLY what you are claiming others did. You also claim that you don't care if you are wrong, but your posts are the exact opposite.

He has his 1st 100 yard game, and you say "Today he had that big game the fantasy world was waiting for.......I think that I've made clear why I would probably shop him after his big game". Meanwhile, you used that entire post to make excuses for that big game (he faced a soft defense for 3/4 quarters, etc). Meanwhile, he had 1/2 his yards, AND his TD when the Bucs were within 10 points; that isn't "garbage time."

You make a few other posts before his 2nd big game, then you disappear until today.

You want to cry about people calling you names, then don't give them a reason to. Don't troll, don't get your panties all in a wad when someone points out a flaw in your logic, don't come in this thread only when you think your point is supported, don't ignore it when it's pointed out that you're wrong, etc.

 

[Bayhawks]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

So ridiculous. I said something along the lines of "Why do you hate Doug so much? Did he boink your mom?" That is obviously not serious and obviously not an insult to your actual family and it is ridiculous to report it and ridiculous a mod would give me a warning for it.

Something else that is a joke is that you think nobody besides you took into account his past performance. We ALL did, but we also took into account the circumstances surrounding that performance whereas you just looked at the box scores. Funny you act like Sims' ADP before the preseason has any impact on his role on an NFL team or his or Martin's fantasy football success this season. That's not analysis, man. So I'm supposed to alter my analysis of the situation in Tampa based on some guy's fantasy ADP in the offseason?? Solid logic. Sims was a totally ineffective runner last year and has proven to be a significantly less effective runner than Doug this year (was again below 4 ypc before his 59 yard scamper this week). My analysis that Sims would primarily dominate the 3rd down role with a small role in the rushing game was correct. Martin is a top 10 back so far this year despite a rocky start for this offense. Things should only stabilize as the season progresses and Winston gets more comfortable. One thing that really hurt them this past week, was a crazy amount of dropped passes: Mike Evans drops six passes

I am tempted to ridicule you for your spelling of "riducule", though, but instead I'll just focus on the fact that you should stop trolling here and move on.

Make fun of my spelling all you want. It's all you have. I have no problem admitting that my grammar suffers when I try to type from a smart phone. Martin has played in 9 games this season. For 4 of those games--his production was amazingly good for his owners--easy RB1 numbers. For another four of those games--his numbers have been soo horrid that--he would have barely been startable as an RB4. In one game this season--he had a typical RB2 game. I agree with you that he's been very solid this season--and I agree that he can get better as the seaoson progresses. Tampa has a favorable schedule. However--Martin has been the very definition of what I said from the very beginning. He will have huge weeks--and he'll have weeks to where his production makes him barely startable. Am I wrong with this anallysis of his first 9 weeks? Do I need to copy and paste what I said about his week to week variance--or is that something that you aknoweldge that I said? You can call me a troll all you want--but go and look at his game log for this season and tell me that what I just said was wrong. In any case--we'll just choose to agree to disagree. I do think the pendulum swings to the direction of Martins production stabilizing as the season progresses--but even as an RB6 to this point of the season--his production has been either Dr. Jeckyl or Mr. Hyde.

Ok, Martin is up and down, and I think that those saying he was RB5 the rest of the way were being a bit optimistic. I am struggling with seeing more than 12 guys I feel more comfortable playing on a weekly basis. He seems like a pretty solid RB 2 on average going forward.

Well, to be fair, that has a lot to do with injuries, and the fact that Charles, Bell, are done for the year, Forte is out for some unspecified period of time, Lewis is out, etc.

 

[JuniorNB]

LOL Wow, JVdesigns getting destroyed here. Again! Why would he come back after the beating he took 6 weeks ago??

 

[BigJim®]

So what is that, 2 recent key fumbles from Sims himself? Sims seems to be performing ok, but until he is a safer alternative to Martin, Martin should keep hold of this job.

 

[dipandglide]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

I'm not here to pound my chest but I'm gonna pound my chest. LOL

 

[Bayhawks]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

So ridiculous. I said something along the lines of "Why do you hate Doug so much? Did he boink your mom?" That is obviously not serious and obviously not an insult to your actual family and it is ridiculous to report it and ridiculous a mod would give me a warning for it.

Something else that is a joke is that you think nobody besides you took into account his past performance. We ALL did, but we also took into account the circumstances surrounding that performance whereas you just looked at the box scores. Funny you act like Sims' ADP before the preseason has any impact on his role on an NFL team or his or Martin's fantasy football success this season. That's not analysis, man. So I'm supposed to alter my analysis of the situation in Tampa based on some guy's fantasy ADP in the offseason?? Solid logic. Sims was a totally ineffective runner last year and has proven to be a significantly less effective runner than Doug this year (was again below 4 ypc before his 59 yard scamper this week). My analysis that Sims would primarily dominate the 3rd down role with a small role in the rushing game was correct. Martin is a top 10 back so far this year despite a rocky start for this offense. Things should only stabilize as the season progresses and Winston gets more comfortable. One thing that really hurt them this past week, was a crazy amount of dropped passes: Mike Evans drops six passes

I am tempted to ridicule you for your spelling of "riducule", though, but instead I'll just focus on the fact that you should stop trolling here and move on.

Make fun of my spelling all you want. It's all you have. I have no problem admitting that my grammar suffers when I try to type from a smart phone. Martin has played in 9 games this season. For 4 of those games--his production was amazingly good for his owners--easy RB1 numbers. For another four of those games--his numbers have been soo horrid that--he would have barely been startable as an RB4. In one game this season--he had a typical RB2 game. I agree with you that he's been very solid this season--and I agree that he can get better as the seaoson progresses. Tampa has a favorable schedule. However--Martin has been the very definition of what I said from the very beginning. He will have huge weeks--and he'll have weeks to where his production makes him barely startable. Am I wrong with this anallysis of his first 9 weeks? Do I need to copy and paste what I said about his week to week variance--or is that something that you aknoweldge that I said? You can call me a troll all you want--but go and look at his game log for this season and tell me that what I just said was wrong. In any case--we'll just choose to agree to disagree. I do think the pendulum swings to the direction of Martins production stabilizing as the season progresses--but even as an RB6 to this point of the season--his production has been either Dr. Jeckyl or Mr. Hyde.

That's all I've got... plus all that other stuff I pointed out above. Look, only a couple elite RBs don't have a few bad games. As I and many other people said, Doug was a value play. None of us expected RB1 numbers but that's what we got so I don't know why you are still posting. What I posted a month ago still stands (see below). He compares very favorably with guys drafted around him. And hell, he's comparing very favorably to guys drafted in the top 12 at this point. Eddie Lacy owners would fall over themselves if we offered a trade.

Interesting thing about Martin for me is the fact that he's one of those players that seems to have a predjudice attached to him because of having fallen short of high expectations previously. In 2013, he was a consensus Top 5 pick and he underperformed before getting injured for the season. Which means alot of owners were really burned off that. 2014 wasn't much different although Martin's draft position had slid down from it's 2013 status down to Round 2/3. But again...owners that invested in him were sorely disappointed.

And so thru 3 games, when Martin didn't produce at least one solid/solid plus outing...I think there was a vocal group of FF owners who banged a 'here we go again' drum.

Having not owned Martin in 2013/2014, I'd not dealt with the aggravation of owning him. But obviously, he has a short fuse with many. Ultimately, his usage pattern to date seems like the Bucs are committed to getting him the ball (18 touches/game), but will not bellcow him. Big success factor for him will be Winston's development. But 18 touches is solid usage. Floor to me appears to be RB2 which is where he was drafted.

I'm in the same boat as you. I absolutely avoided him his whole career (never had faith in Schiano) but felt he'd reached a good value this year. As of 9/7/15, the FBG aggregate ADP for him was RB26 which seemed right at or below my anticipated floor for him in Dirk Koetter's offense, even with a rookie QB. Yet trolls will complain that his consistency isn't up to par (while not defining what par is that late in the RB player pool).

His first three games weren't great, but he hasn't exactly disappointed compared to his peers. Just for fun (not in response to the above quote) I'll break down the guys drafted around him with a wide berth:

RB14 - Gore - epitome of meh update: little less meh than before

RB15 - Morris - no TDs, rookie forcing RBBC, similar stats to Martin update: bust

RB16 - Gordon - similar, but worse stats than Martin update: bust, but not as bad as Morris

RB17 - Hyde - one big game, three clunkers update: 2 good games, 5 bad/mediocre games, now injured

RB18 - L.Murray - good, not great (lot of short rec if you get points for just catching them, very low YPR) update: similar to Martin

RB19 - Ellington - injured, TBD update: relegated to backup after injury, bust

RB20 - Stewart - between 50-82 yards each week, no TDs, pretty meh update: doing better, Martin still preferred

RB21 - Randle - scoring TDs the last two weeks has saved what has been a lackluster 4 game stretch, hold on starting job tenuous update: bust

RB22 - Foster - back early to a horrendous offense, TBD update: IR

RB23 - Gurley - came on strong week 4, TBD update: stud

RB24 - Abdullah - looks legit, but usage baffling (week 2 - 18 yards total) update: bust

RB25 - Yeldon - pretty much the same as Martin, but w/o a touchdown update: good, not great

RB26 - Martin - getting 18.5 touches a game, RB24 by average pts/gm in both formats (including current unstartables like DeAngelo, Andrews, Sankey, David Johnson, etc) update: top 12 in all formats; 3 bad games, 2 mediocre, 3 great

RB27 - Ivory - looks great, potential steal, week 3's active donut hurt, though update: stud

RB28 - Spiller - injured, slowly worked back in, TBD update: bust

RB29 - Bell - looks bad, now injured update: bust

RB30 - Blount - appears 2nd on the depth chart, but will score points unpredictably update: solid when in the game plan, but week 7: 3/-3/0

RB31 - Jennings - 3-way RBBC, 3.2 ypc update: still in RBBC hell

So even though people might not be happy with him, they probably wouldn't be that happy if they had taken someone else around him. And going forward, his situation looks much more predictable than a lot of those guys. Sims is getting snaps to pass block and catch a few passes, but he's looking as pedestrian as last year as a runner (3.4 ypc) despite being in a chance of pace role. Rainey is barely getting any snaps at all. Winston and the offense have looked poor, but at least we know it can't get much worse. The offense should improve as the year progresses.

Listen--I don't disagree with you. I admit that Martin has returned solid production for his owners. I understand that I've been painted as a troll this thread and regardless of what I say (regardless of how accurate it is)--people will discredit me for the sheer purpose of not agreeing with me. Frankly--I don't mind that. His production has been solid. I admit it---but he has been a tough "start". If you look at the dynamics of the season/fantasy season--I would bet that most of his owners had him on their benches on his "first" breakout game this season. This basically means that most of his owners got stuck with 4 really bad games from him, 3 really great games from him--and 1 decent game from him. His production so far this season has been elite--RB6 based on season totals. However-- the nature in which Martin rewards his owners is two faced. For most of his owners--he has hurt them in the same number(or more if they missed his first week) of fantasy weeks more than he has helped them. His presense has generally been either really positive or really negative--and he has had a hard time delivering "neutral" weeks. Even with him being the RB6 to this point this season--the only way that anybody would have had a real "net positive" from him was trying to accurately start him in the good weeks and avoid him in the bad ones. I do think that as the season progresses--he can limit the number of "negative" games and convert them to "neutral" ones--and when he does that--he'll be a huge asset. Me being critical of this very fact from the beginning of the season to this point in time--shouldn't make me a troll.

The selective way in which you choose to use/reject stats also leads to the "attacks" on you.

"Let's ignore one of his good games, so we can say he has had 4 bad games, 3 great games, and 1 decent game."

Using that logic, Ingram (RB2) has had 5 decent games, 1 great game, and 1 poor game.

Also, Peterson (RB3) has had 2 poor, 3 decent, & 3 great games.

Also, Miller (RB4) has had 5 poor games, 1 decent game, and 2 great games, BUT you'd have to discount his 1 decent game (it came after 4 poor games, he was probably benched) AND 1 of his great games (came after a poor game, he was probably benched).

Also, Ivory (RB5) has had 2 good games (most people probably left him on their bench week 4 after being injured & out week 3), 2 poor games (less than 60 yards/0TD), and 2 decent games (low yardage, but TDs)

So, based on your logic, the only RB above Martin who isn't a "tough" start is Freeman, and maybe Ingram? Because if you apply your "logic" to all these RBs, they are pretty much just as up and down as Martin.

 

[Andrew74]

Stupid work made me miss all the fun.

 

[addicted2ff]

I'm not sure how the earlier posters are saying that he wasn't benched and today was a product of gameflow. He was absolutely being benched and only got back on the field after Sims also ended up fumbling. By the way--that's not me hating--that's the truth and an accurate description of what happened today.

By the way--I just want to clear the air on me getting ridiculed for my thoughts on Martin earlier in this thread. I got railed on for saying that this dude is hard to trust week to week early in the season. The first three to four weeks--I was right--and people started posting that they were actually dropping him in their leagues. I said that even though he's a hard guy to start with confidence--that he absolutely should be rostered because once he has one of his big games his value would skyrocket. Sure enough--he had a solid game--and the fantasy community started going nuts. I came on the thread and gave Martin and his owners props for his nice game--and commented that it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold him after his first solid game because if he followed it up by another big one--his value would explode--and sure enough--he had his huge game. His value exploded and at that time--I said it was probably a great time to take advantage of his ballooned value. If you read what I said after Martins huge game--I specifically said that I'd move him for a guy like Lamar Miller all day. I'm not a Martin hater--nor am I trying to pound my chest after Martin had a rough day-- as I really don't care. What I do care about is how myself and the few other people who had opposing views of Martin were being labeled as being uninformed/stupid or being ridiculed for our points of view. Martin is a good player that has good games in him--but he's already had enough bad fantasy games for both sides to carry merit. There is no room for anybody being insulted for an opinion.

Your incredibly shallow analysis implied that you are uninformed... Your ENTIRE analysis was "look at his performance the last two years - his stats aren't good and he's inconsistent." You failed to take into account changes in offensive line, change in QB, changes at WR/TE, and most importantly the change at offensive coordinator. When personnel or coaching changes were brought up, you said I was "making excuses" for Doug. You need to broaden your research beyond looking at game logs. That's some JV level research and analysis.

When you constantly troll a player thread with the same weak sauce analysis, you're going to get laughed out of here. This time, however, I'm not going to drop a not-even-mildly offensive rhetorical question to give you an excuse to cry to the mods. You aren't presenting a counterpoint. You've just been trolling with the same shtick the entire time. It's not helpful or productive.

As we've already said, he was drafted around RB24-RB26 to provide RB2 value in our RB2 spot if we drafted the position late or possibly at the flex if we secured our third RB early. We all expect a dud here or there out of an RB2 drafted that late. He's already surpassed his ADP value, proving us correct and your game log analysis wrong. I'm open to detailed, well thought out counterpoint analysis, maybe you should've been, too.

My analysis has been more complete than anybody here this season. I am the only one that has taken into acount his prevous performnaces. Yes--he has a new coordinator, and some new teammates--but that doesn't mean that his entire history should be expunged. You choose to disregard it completely-I choose to give it some weight---that's not me or you being wrong--it's the differences between how you and I analyze things. I analyzed the very nature of this team--a rookie qb that is unproven, an offense that is like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, a team that will no doubt be behind in some games that they will abandon the running game, a running back in Simms that before 3-4 pre-season games the fantasy community was drafting well ahead of Martin..etc. Yes--there are factors that also made Martin look good--and supporters choose to put more emphasis on those. However--to insult or criticize anybody for analyzing a player differently from you is 10000% wrong--period. By the way--I contacted the mods because you and others went to the point of making jokes and insulting family members of mine for a fantasy opinion. I will make clear--that if you or anybody posts anything insulting or negative about anybody in my family--you will get reported. There is no room for that and the fact that you riducule me for taking offense to it--as opposed to apologizing for being out of line--says a lot about your moral character.

How has your analysis been the most complete? You focused on his past performance, and said discussion of new offense/OC/new teammates, etc were excuses.

You did EXACTLY what you are claiming others did. You also claim that you don't care if you are wrong, but your posts are the exact opposite.

He has his 1st 100 yard game, and you say "Today he had that big game the fantasy world was waiting for.......I think that I've made clear why I would probably shop him after his big game". Meanwhile, you used that entire post to make excuses for that big game (he faced a soft defense for 3/4 quarters, etc). Meanwhile, he had 1/2 his yards, AND his TD when the Bucs were within 10 points; that isn't "garbage time."

You make a few other posts before his 2nd big game, then you disappear until today.

You want to cry about people calling you names, then don't give them a reason to. Don't troll, don't get your panties all in a wad when someone points out a flaw in your logic, don't come in this thread only when you think your point is supported, don't ignore it when it's pointed out that you're wrong, etc.

Bayhawks dropping truth bombs.