even if the worst-case scenario for droughns/best-case scenario for suggs is true - that is that suggs is the unquestioned full-time starter and droughns was just brought in as injury insurance - that still shows a lack of confidence in suggs durability. the browns actively sought out droughns in a buyer's market for RBs. I just cant see how this can this can be anything but a hit to suggs value.my opinion is still that theres no way the browns traded for droughns and dont plan on using him as a semi-regular part of their offense.
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RB Droughns traded for DE Ekuban (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bizkiteer
- Start date
Banger
Footballguy
I don't agree that trading for a Droughns shows a lack of confidence in Suggs, I think it's good team management. Injuries happen and they have no decent options behind Suggs (assuming Green is cut). It would be stupid not to get a decent backup no matter how durable your starter is. RB's get banged up no matter who they are.
maybe im just going about explaining this the wrong way?what incentive to the browns have to NOT use droughns regularly? keeping suggs happy? suggs already has a long injury history - you dont just bring in a competent RB to wait in the wings for the starter get hurt when you have an injury prone starter. you use the backup liberally to PREVENT injury to the starter. even if droughns wins no legitimate playing time in camp, i still think he gets 20-30% of the touches and possibly all of the short yardage/inside the 5 touches (a la stacey mack in jacksonville a few years back, another "career backup"). this move hurts suggs value, even if droughns was brought in as "insurance".
the broncos did use droughns regularly even after bell was back, even in the playoff game. besides that, shanny shies away from RBBC - as seen with griffin being "the man" going into the season. there's no reason to believe that crennel will have any reservations about using both his backs. i really dont see how the browns gain anything by not having droughns absorb some of the punishment for suggs, that was the point of my post.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
What incentive do the packers have to NOT use davenport regularly?What incentive do the Saints have to NOT use stecker regularly
What incentive do the pats have to NOT use faulk regularly?
What incentive do the lions have to NOT use pinner regularly?
Answer: they are backups. They aren't used regularly because they're not as good as the starter.
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The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
Faulknone of ahman, deuce, dillon, and kevin jones have the injury history suggs does. the parallel doesnt apply.also ahman, deuce, and dillon have all lasted through an entire season and been excellent RBs for that season at least once in their career. Suggs still hasnt proven that he can hold up under a full season of NFL punishment.
I'm surprised so many people are in denial about droughns cutting into suggs value - again, i expect him to at least play a stacey mack role in the cleveland offense, and with the new regime, he has a chance to get more work if he impresses crennel&co - obviously they like something about him or they wouldnt have traded him.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
I don't see what injury history has to do with it. I am not disputing that if Suggs gets injured he won't be starting (or playing). I am asserting that when healthy, Suggs will likely get the lions share of carries, because he will be more productive per carry than Droughns.
Wyld Stallyns
Footballguy
I don't think Lee Suggs should be compared to A.Green/D.McAllister/C.Dillon/or K.Jones... but maybe it's just me.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
The fact that they traded for him meant that they would rather have him on the 53-man roster at his salary than Ekuban & his salary. It does not mean that they want him to be the starter, which makes sense because most observers think he is just not the RB that Suggs is.And has been mentioned several times, Suggs was probably the premiere goal line RB in college, and I seen no reason he can't do it in the pros.
People often think (mistakenly) that Droughns is substantially bigger than Suggs, and that big size = good GL back. In fact the great GL backs are typically Suggs' size or smaller--Holmes, Faulk, Emmitt. Contrast this with J Lew & F Taylor, two very large RB's who don't score a lot of TD's. It is more about sneakiness than size when you get near the GL.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
I don't think it's just you, but personally I think he has about as much potential as those guys; my biggest concern is that he may not stay healthy enough to realize his potential.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
seriously, this sounds like all the threads that hyped suggs before he even stepped onto the field. iirc, green pushed suggs for that starting gig. that's WILLIAM green. you guys are much too optimistic about suggs at this point, although i'll admit can't argue that suggs looks to have the better POTENTIAL of the two. at the end of the day, neither droughns nor chester taylor has done anything to show that they can't produce as starters. suggs has had the opportunity and showed us 3.7 ypg (not verified, someone else posted that number.) i don't see why we would dismiss either droughns or chester as career backups while you guys compare suggs to the likes of AHMAN green???
suggs success in college doesnt change the fact that RBs take the most punishment on short yardage carries. if you want to lessen the punishment on someone because they have durability questions, the duty you take away is short yardage.and droughns's size has nothing to do with his good fit as a short yardage back, its his style - take the hole thats given and hit it hard.
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yes, suggs should get the majority of the work.yes, suggs should be more productive than droughns on a per carry basis.
however, suggs's value in dynasty leagues is based on an assumption that he will be a true feature back with the kind of workload that the premier backs get. i just think there's no way that happens with droughns there.
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The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
Actually Suggs value is not contingent on him being the true "feature back"--he is going as about RB25 in dyansty (before the trade) precisely because the "consensus" is that he will not be the feature back.Am I the only one who thinks that Droughns is a mediocre back who did OK in the perfect situation? I mean, were Droughns still at Denver do you think that Bell would have been kept from the feature role because Droughns was there?
You mentioned in an earlier post that Droughns style--rather than size--is what suits him for a GL back. This is a fair point, I'll grant. He does hit the hole hard.
However, your other point (that the Browns will "protect" Suggs by giving Droughns the GL carries) I don't agree with. If the browns are smart they will try to give Suggs the full load to see if he can hold up--if he can, great; if he can't, go with the healthy backup and draft somebody next year. I don't see an NFL team babying a fragile RB, unless that RB turns out to be a real difference-maker (like Westbrook).
as far as suggs's ADP - its very close to fred taylor's, who i would say will have similar role to suggs, but is far more proven than suggs, and very talented - definitely a more stable investment than suggs.i dont think bell would have been kept from the feature role, but thats because shanny likes to go with one guy - it bears noting that shanny did use droughns and bell in an RBBC late in the year to soften the blow on bell's shoulder - so theres more reason to think as soon as suggs gets dinged, he falls into an RBBC. i agree that droughns is nothing special, ive been careful about the words i am using to describe him - steady, decent, competent - certainly not much a threat to displace suggs as the feature back - although the way he works his #### off will definitely impress the staff.
to your last paragraph:
1) is suggs a "difference maker" at RB? if not, why get excited about him in the first place?
2) if the browns really make this a "make or break" year with suggs, thats even more reason to knock him down because one more injury banishes him to atrain/poopy/henry RB purgatory.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
Fred Taylor is 29, Suggs is 25. The fact that their ADP's are about the same should tell you all you need to know about the extent to which Suggs is expected to be a feature back.I do think that Droughns is a hard worker, which will impress the staff. I just don't think he's a starter opposite Suggs. Droughns is a good team guy who can step in for you as needed--sort of like Troy Fleming.
As for the last issue, I personally think that Suggs will be difference maker. My point is that either a) they think he is a golden god, in which case he may not be the feature back but he can still put up westbrook-like numbers, or b) they aren't totally sold on him, in which case they make him the feature back this year to see if he can hold up.
I do think that Suggs has the biggest injury risk of the major backs out there, and that does make him a big risk in dynasty--but the payoff is also pretty big if he survives.
pretender
Footballguy
Does anybody think that Echamanu will have a role in this at all. As a rookie, Cleveland was pretty high on him. IIRC he did well until he got hurt (foot) somewhere along the line. I read alot of opinions on Browns message boards and articles about him last year and everyone seemed high on him, he just needed some experience. So you have Droughns and Suggs slugging it out for starter - depending on what chances Echamandu gets during training camp and preseason, I'm thinking he might be a pleasant surprise 
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
true, but i remember willie got more starts after suggs took it from him when suggs was healthy, that's what i was getting at. butch's man-love had a lot to do with this, i agree there. sugg's successes so far have been in college only. droughns had a successful campaign, albeit it was in denver. i am not saying droughns is better than suggs in any way shape or form, i am saying that we seem to be comparing potential to production at this point. based on actual production, there's no clear cut leader in that duo. suggs gets way too much love here imo. i hope he proves me wrong, but haven't seen much yet.
It's funny to see all the Suggs-lovers come into this thread and put their spin on how great Suggs is. Look all of you are just fat, balding armchair QB geeky fantasy football players. I'd trust Phil Savage's player personnell decisons over a bunch of whiny Suggs-lovers. And Phil Savage has shown absolutley zero confidence in Lee Suggs to this point---ZERO. First he tries to bring in a guy he is familiar with in Chester Taylor. When that didn't work they broke out the film on Reuben Droughns and tabbed him as the next in line. Where is Suggs in all of this? Definitely not on the mind of Phil Savage. :rotflmao:
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
Yeah, because one think Savage learned from the Ravens is that quality depth at RB is of no importance :rotflmao:
pretender
Footballguy
Link to entire story
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindeale...30.xml#continue
Done deal: Droughns joins Browns
Ex-Broncos back brings impressive numbers, competition for Suggs
Thursday, March 31, 2005
Tony Grossi
Plain Dealer Reporter
Lee Suggs finished an injury-plagued 2004 season with 105 rushing yards against San Diego, 143 against Miami and 131 against Houston.
They apparently were not enough to secure a starting job in 2005.
At the very least, the ever-changing Browns intend to pit Suggs in a competition with Reuben Droughns in training camp.
The Browns' trade for Droughns, a 1,240-yard rusher in Denver last year, became official when he passed a physical in Cleveland on Wednesday.
At the same time, defensive linemen Ebenezer Ekuban and Michael Myers passed inspection in Denver and will join former Browns teammates Gerard Warren and Courtney Brown, and line coach Andre Patterson, with the Broncos.
Concerns about Ekuban's recovery from minor off-season surgeries forced the Browns to add Myers to the trade package. They preferred throwing in Myers rather than a conditional 2006 draft pick.
Droughns hired high-powered agent Drew Rosenhaus last season while he was smashing his way to six 100-yard games in place of injured starter Quentin Griffin and backup Tatum Bell. Denver intended to return him to fullback in 2005, so Droughns was granted permission to find a team that would consider him a starting halfback.
"I am extremely excited for this new opportunity with the Cleveland Browns," Droughns said in a statement. "This organization has strong leadership from [General Manager] Phil Savage and [coach] Romeo Crennel, and it is exciting with the new players and changes they are bringing to this organization."
Rosenhaus would not say Wednesday if the Browns promised Droughns a starting job.
"We'll see what happens when he visits with them," Rosenhaus said.
Droughns' between-the-tackles rushing style would seem a nice complement to Suggs, who is shiftier and has breakaway speed.
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindeale...30.xml#continue
Done deal: Droughns joins Browns
Ex-Broncos back brings impressive numbers, competition for Suggs
Thursday, March 31, 2005
Tony Grossi
Plain Dealer Reporter
Lee Suggs finished an injury-plagued 2004 season with 105 rushing yards against San Diego, 143 against Miami and 131 against Houston.
They apparently were not enough to secure a starting job in 2005.
At the very least, the ever-changing Browns intend to pit Suggs in a competition with Reuben Droughns in training camp.
The Browns' trade for Droughns, a 1,240-yard rusher in Denver last year, became official when he passed a physical in Cleveland on Wednesday.
At the same time, defensive linemen Ebenezer Ekuban and Michael Myers passed inspection in Denver and will join former Browns teammates Gerard Warren and Courtney Brown, and line coach Andre Patterson, with the Broncos.
Concerns about Ekuban's recovery from minor off-season surgeries forced the Browns to add Myers to the trade package. They preferred throwing in Myers rather than a conditional 2006 draft pick.
Droughns hired high-powered agent Drew Rosenhaus last season while he was smashing his way to six 100-yard games in place of injured starter Quentin Griffin and backup Tatum Bell. Denver intended to return him to fullback in 2005, so Droughns was granted permission to find a team that would consider him a starting halfback.
"I am extremely excited for this new opportunity with the Cleveland Browns," Droughns said in a statement. "This organization has strong leadership from [General Manager] Phil Savage and [coach] Romeo Crennel, and it is exciting with the new players and changes they are bringing to this organization."
Rosenhaus would not say Wednesday if the Browns promised Droughns a starting job.
"We'll see what happens when he visits with them," Rosenhaus said.
Droughns' between-the-tackles rushing style would seem a nice complement to Suggs, who is shiftier and has breakaway speed.
cstu
Footballguy
I think you are missing the point of my post where I said it is time to buy Suggs. I'm assuming of course that his value is very low since many are predicting that Droughns will be the starter. I can't imagine any scenario except injury in which Suggs doesn't remain the starter. However, I never said that Droughns would not cut into his carries or vulture TD's. That will still happen but Suggs ended up with 744 yards and 3 TD's despite missing 6 games. If you can get him based on that kind of production, he's a steal since it's all upside from there. If on the other hand, the person trading him is predicting a 1400/10 season then you are SOL.
cstu
Footballguy
How hard is to understand that they want to get rid of Green and replace him with another RB?a cold one for The Bossfinally...someone who has looked at the bigger picture
Phil and Romeo have been pretty firm in their desire to get a RB signed before the draft...
...THAT would concern me if I were a Suggs owner
They aren't looking for a starter or else they wouldn't be trying to get Chester Taylor and Droughns. These guys are backups who could fill in if Suggs gets hurt. These guys aren't stupid and know Suggs has had injury problems, but they also know that Suggs is a very talented back and will get a chance to start.And FWIW, I do not own Suggs in any leagues. I did follow KJ's career in college and got to see a lot of Suggs as well. I don't understand how anyone that has watched him play in college or the NFL could deny that he has the talent to be a great RB. I really don't think he'll be able to stay healthy and that may be the reason why he eventually becomes a backup, but it isn't going to be this year.
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
We can have 2,000 posts in this thread this week and it won't matter. Until one of them wins the starting role in preseason, the whole thing is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma... ...or, until Willie Green moves on, maybe it's more like a Reuben sandwich in a Brown(s) bag. 
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except that 'back up' Chester Taylor was offered a $3M+ contractI'm no NFL exec, but that sounds an awful lot like 'starter' money to meHow hard is to understand that they want to get rid of Green and replace him with another RB?a cold one for The Boss
Phil and Romeo have been pretty firm in their desire to get a RB signed before the draft...
...THAT would concern me if I were a Suggs owner
ExtraPoint
Footballguy
Or like Cleveland takeing advantage of a mistake by the former Browns. There is no love between those two teams.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
was this already posted? this sux for both suggs and droughns owners. rbbc in full effect, or at least until second week of preseason when suggs goes down with his first of many ailments...
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindeale...35145978831.xml
Big Score
Footballguy
Coupla' hours ago by wadegarrett with 13 respones so far....and counting.Here's a link to the thread itself: It'll be RBBC in Cleveland boys..., Per Phil Savage
Couch Potato
Footballguy
If you mean 1.04 and 1.05, I'd grab that so fast it isn't funny.If you mean 4th and 5th round rookie picks, forget it.
My gut feeling is we'll have a lot of people this offseason deciding to bail on Suggs and get what they can now for him, while Droughns owners will either hold fast or want more in trade than he is probably worth. At this point, in terms of fantasy trade value, Droughns' value probably exceeds that of Suggs.
Captain America
Footballguy
I own Droughns in one league and Suggs in another.What WOULD concern me as a Suggs owner would be the Browns going out and trying to bring in a proven starting RB.a cold one for The Boss
Phil and Romeo have been pretty firm in their desire to get a RB signed before the draft...
...THAT would concern me if I were a Suggs owner
It would also concern me if they wanted to draft a RB in the first round.
But that's not what they're doing. No, they aren't handing the job to Suggs, but they'll make him earn it.
They tried bringing in a career backup in Taylor first, and now they brought in the latest mediocre RB to be lifted up by the Denver system. And that's all Olandis Gary... er, I mean Reuben Droughns is, too.
The Browns obviously weren't going to keep Green around, and they just as obviously needed to bring in a capable backup, or at least someone to push Suggs a little harder than Green or Echimandu would.
I think people are making a lot more of this signing than it is. But hey, that's what happens in the offseason!
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Fallerjw
Footballguy
As a Browns fan, I'm not too concerned. I don't think Droughns brought much to the table the Green doesn't bring as a backup. I think Suggs is the most talented back of the 3. If he stays healthy, I think he gets the most carries. If he gets hurt, Green or Droughns would be adequate.
