RB Ezekiel Elliott, DAL (5 Viewers)

[Deamon]

I disagree. Succup would have been called a choker if he missed, & Dallas wouldn’t deserve a second of praise for an opposing kicker’s missed FG. 

Had they not gifted DAL 3 possessions (2 with a short field) then TB would have won that game by 20. While we’re making hypotheticals and all.

Dude, you're off the rails here.  if Dallas pulled off the biggest upset of the week, and knocks off the world champs as 8 point underdogs they "wouldn't deserve a second of praise"?????  Wow.

And Dallas scored 13 points off of turnovers and Tampa scored 7 off of turnovers.  So yes, if you'd like to take Turnovers out of the game then Tampa wins by 7 points... how does that possibly equal 20!?!?

 

[Rockchild]

I was hoping for more from Zeke but not surprised. The game plan of throwing 80% of the time is hard to argue with as they were moving the ball really well. I thought they might try running more early in the game but I'm not sure it would have helped too much. The Buc's run D was stout. And they needed the RB to help block the pass rush.

It's also too early to panic. Let's see what happens in the next few games.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Dude, you're off the rails here.  if Dallas pulled off the biggest upset of the week, and knocks off the world champs as 8 point underdogs they "wouldn't deserve a second of praise"?????  Wow.

To be perfectly clear, you’re saying if Succup missed a chip shot FG & Dallas won because of it, they’d deserve heaps of praise, and *I’m* off the rails? 

yeah sure ok pal.  

And Dallas scored 13 points off of turnovers and Tampa scored 7 off of turnovers.  So yes, if you'd like to take Turnovers out of the game then Tampa wins by 7 points... how does that possibly equal 20!?!?

You’re missing the fact that Godwin’s fumble was just short of the end zone. That took at least 3, and likely 7 points off TB’s line. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I was hoping for more from Zeke but not surprised. The game plan of throwing 80% of the time is hard to argue with as they were moving the ball really well. I thought they might try running more early in the game but I'm not sure it would have helped too much. The Buc's run D was stout. And they needed the RB to help block the pass rush.

It's also too early to panic. Let's see what happens in the next few games.

I’m not sure we can conclude that the Bucs run D was stout because the Cowboys never actually tested it.

I’m still chalking it up to Martin being out. If he plays, I can’t fathom that they’d drop most of their playbook to play out of the shotgun all game, stout run D or not. 

 

[Deamon]

To be perfectly clear, you’re saying if Succup missed a chip shot FG & Dallas won because of it, they’d deserve heaps of praise, and *I’m* off the rails? 

yeah sure ok pal.  

You’re missing the fact that Godwin’s fumble was just short of the end zone. That took at least 3, and likely 7 points off TB’s line. 

You said "not a second of praise".  So zero.  Yes, I think if Succop missed an easy fg just as Zuerlien did, then Dallas would have still gotten a bit of praise for knocking off the SB champs.  Wow.

Ok then add 7  more points.  Still doesn't equal 20.  EDT:  Also, if you're adding this 7 in for Tampa, then Dallas gets the ball in even BETTER field position than they did when they scored the FG.  So they score that FG anyways.  So your magical number if you take away all the turnovers from the game, is 11.  20 is just you making up numbers and exaggerating)

You're taking off all the "unlikely" things that happened to Tampa but not to Dallas?  Want to add the missed FG's by Zeurlien into your "if unlikely things didnt happen in the game then" argument?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You said "not a second of praise".  So zero.  Yes, I think if Succop missed an easy fg just as Zuerlien did, then Dallas would have still gotten a bit of praise for knocking off the SB champs.  Wow.

again: they had poor clock management, and left the SB champs 1:30+ in a 1 point game.

so in your estimation, after giving them that much time, they then allow the SB champs to drive down the field at will and set up to kick the GW field goal.

And if that K missed, then we should praise Dallas?

I’ve been watching football quite a while, and that would be a 1st. But hey, it’s your hypothetical.  

 

[Deamon]

again: they had poor clock management, and left the SB champs 1:30+ in a 1 point game.

so in your estimation, after giving them that much time, they then allow the SB champs to drive down the field at will and set up to kick the GW field goal.

And if that K missed, then we should praise Dallas?

I’ve been watching football quite a while, and that would be a 1st. But hey, it’s your hypothetical.  

And can you explain how you came up with the "would have won by 20 points" number?  

 

[IHEARTFF]

This is the Zeke thread. Can we stay on topic in here.

 

[Deamon]

again: they had poor clock management, and left the SB champs 1:30+ in a 1 point game.

so in your estimation, after giving them that much time, they then allow the SB champs to drive down the field at will and set up to kick the GW field goal.

And if that K missed, then we should praise Dallas?

I’ve been watching football quite a while, and that would be a 1st. But hey, it’s your hypothetical.  

Never in a million years would I think I'd be getting in an argument defending the Dallas Cowboys.  But you're just making up numbers now.  And yes a team can be praised for winning a game when the opposing team doesn't win the game at the end.

To recap your stance:

- If Succop missed and Dallas won this game, they wouldn't deserve "a SECOND of praise" for beating the defending Champs on the road.

- If you take away the turnovers (not sure why we'd do that, but okay), then Tampa would have miraculously won this game by 20 points.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

And can you explain how you came up with the "would have won by 20 points" number?  

Fewer possessions by Dallas, less scoring, more scoring by TB, you know - that old chestnut. 

But hey, you see Dallas as a world beater & think they hung tough with TB. That abandoning the run before the 1st snap was great strategy and a recipe for beating TB.

All good. 

 

[Cobbler1]

Yes let’s all agree that HSG is wrong as usual and move on

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Yes let’s all agree that HSG is wrong as usual and move on

I’ll even agree to this. 

surely if y’all think Dallas played great, I can’t argue with the masses. 

Zeke was a world beater too, while we’re at it. If the cowboys play this well every week he’s gonna be an all-pro.

How bout them cowboys! 

 

[Deamon]

Fewer possessions by Dallas, less scoring, more scoring by TB, you know - that old chestnut. 

But hey, you see Dallas as a world beater & think they hung tough with TB. That abandoning the run before the 1st snap was great strategy and a recipe for beating TB.

All good. 

This still doesn't add up to 20.

And don't make a strawman argument here.  I  hate Dallas and don't at all that they are a world beater.  But yes I think they hung tough with TB... sorry that you don't agree.  Losing by 1 is "hanging tough" in my mind but I guess not yours.

 

[Deamon]

I’ll even agree to this. 

surely if y’all think Dallas played great, I can’t argue with the masses. 

Zeke was a world beater too, while we’re at it. If the cowboys play this well every week he’s gonna be an all-pro.

How bout them cowboys! 

Dallas did play great.  

Again, no one is arguing any of the points you're making up.

Dallas played great, they adjusted to the weakness of Tampa's D, and put themselves in a position to win the game at the end.  There's no "would have won by 20" possible outcome even with your "lets take away tampa turnovers but keep dallas' turnovers in there" argument lol

 

[Cobbler1]

I’ll even agree to this. 

surely if y’all think Dallas played great, I can’t argue with the masses. 

Zeke was a world beater too, while we’re at it. If the cowboys play this well every week he’s gonna be an all-pro.

How bout them cowboys! 

Good. So back to Zeke. Most people think he will be utilized more in more favorable matchuos/circumstances. Guess we’ll see!

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Good. So back to Zeke. Most people think he will be utilized more in more favorable matchuos/circumstances. Guess we’ll see!

Hey, Dallas spent much of the offseason talking about getting back to running the ball; praising Zeke for being in the best shape of his life, etc.

so….yeah.  
 

 

[Deamon]

Hey, Dallas spent much of the offseason talking about getting back to running the ball; praising Zeke for being in the best shape of his life, etc.

so….yeah.  
 

Do you own Zeke in any leagues?  That would surely explain a lot of this

 

[TampaMike19]

I'll try to be reasonable here:

CMC put up 21 PPR points last year, with a probably worse offense, QB, passing game, everything, granted CMC is CMC, and Zeke is not CMC anymore.

Zeke's gotta punch it in when he's up against a safety in that 1 on 1 scenario. He got thrown around like he was nothing. What was that?

They could check down to Zeke in the flat, maybe not a good idea since Bucs coverage LB's are truly elite. Bucs front 7 is by far the strength, and Cowboys WRs are by far their strength. Makes sense here, but you also should mix it up, run a bit of play action, not play in shotgun/hurry-up all night. Cowboys played in shootout mode all night when in reality it was 7-7 and no need to do so.

Maybe Zeke's not cooked, but the play-calling and offensive scheme / gameplan is very concerning for Zeke's prospects. Pollard also had plays DESIGNED for him, not normal runs up the gut but he had a RB reverse, screen, etc, and looked good with his touches generally. 

And yes, TB should've won by a few points more due to their REALLY uncharacterisic and stupid mistakes. Dallas didn't make a ton of mistakes aside from Dak's INT (get used to it- DAK will throw many INT's with this offense, it's who he is.) Also, the clock management at the end, yikes.

I'd be looking to sell- you can probably still get top 24 value for him. I don't own him anywhere- I've just seen enough the past 12-14 games. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Do you own Zeke in any leagues?  That would surely explain a lot of this

Nope. Not a one. 

 

[Deamon]

Nope. Not a one. 

Ah, then this nonsense is puzzling.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Good. So back to Zeke. Most people think he will be utilized more in more favorable matchuos/circumstances. Guess we’ll see!

Are you suggesting we shouldn’t overreact to Week 1? Where’s the fun in that?

Zeke looked fine to me. Doubt last night is anything close to the normal week to week script. Maybe a few less carries, maybe a few more passing down snaps to Pollard. Nothing to lose your mind over.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Zeke's gotta punch it in when he's up against a safety in that 1 on 1 scenario. He got thrown around like he was nothing. What was that?

yep - I made that point earlier. He looked sluggish to the corner and crumpled on contact.

old Zeke wins that battle and scores a TD. 

They could check down to Zeke in the flat, maybe not a good idea since Bucs coverage LB's are truly elite. Bucs front 7 is by far the strength, and Cowboys WRs are by far their strength. Makes sense here, but you also should mix it up, run a bit of play action, not play in shotgun/hurry-up all night. Cowboys played in shootout mode all night when in reality it was 7-7 and no need to do so.

Yep. right out of the locker room - that’s exactly what I take issue with.

Look, a team doesn’t have to be incredibly successful running the ball to make PA passing work. Just the threat that they might do it makes it work.

and to do that they have to run, to whatever degree of effectiveness. 

And going almost exclusively out of the shotgun isn’t going to put that fear in an opponent. 

one could argue that they didn’t need PA to open up their pass game since they passed so effectively, but then why not try a RB draw out of the gun to mix it up?

Then when down 2 scores, Dallas actually started running the ball? That was weird too.  

Maybe Zeke's not cooked, but the play-calling and offensive scheme / gameplan is very concerning for Zeke's prospects. Pollard also had plays DESIGNED for him, not normal runs up the gut but he had a RB reverse, screen, etc, and looked good with his touches generally. 

And yes, TB should've won by a few points more due to their REALLY uncharacterisic and stupid mistakes. Dallas didn't make a ton of mistakes aside from Dak's INT (get used to it- DAK will throw many INT's with this offense, it's who he is.) Also, the clock management at the end, yikes.

I'd be looking to sell- you can probably still get top 24 value for him. I don't own him anymore- I've just seen enough the past 12-14 games. 

I agree with almost every word of this. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Ah, then this nonsense is puzzling.

Not as puzzling as the personal attacks by some because others disagree with their opinions, but hey, you do you. 

 

[Deamon]

Not as puzzling as the personal attacks by some because others disagree with their opinions, but hey, you do you. 

What personal attacks are you referring to?

 

[VaTerp]

Dallas didn't make a ton of mistakes aside from Dak's INT (get used to it- DAK will throw many INT's with this offense, it's who he is.) 

Huh?  Prescott has the 6th highest TD to INt ratio in NFL HISTORY.  Throwing pics is most definitely not "who he is."

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

What personal attacks are you referring to?

“Wrong as usual”

and your calling my opinions “nonsense” and estimating that surely I must own Elliot to have a negative opinion about his usage. 

That’s cool, I have thick skin. Just note that I didn’t once disrespect you or Cobbler in here during this discussion. 

I’ve made all the points I need to make in here. Y’all carry on heaping praise on that 0-1 Dallas team for their brilliant game plan. 

 

[Cobbler1]

What personal attacks are you referring to?

He’s upset I said he was wrong “as usual”. He’s right I shouldn’t have said he was wrong as usual. It’s ok to be wrong. The annoying part to me is he digs in to a clearly wrong stance. I should have said HSG is dug in as usual (and in this case wrong) so let’s all move on. 

 

[Deamon]

“Wrong as usual”

and your calling my opinions “nonsense” and estimating that surely I must own Elliot to have a negative opinion about his usage. 

That’s cool, I have thick skin. Just note that I didn’t once disrespect you or Cobbler in here during this discussion. 

I’ve made all the points I need to make in here. Y’all carry on heaping praise on that 0-1 Dallas team for their brilliant game plan. 

I never said Wrong as Usual.  Calling you fabricating numbers as "nonsense" is not a personal attack.

I asked you where you came up with the 20 point number from, you refused to answer it because you made that up.

You also said an 8 point underdog wouldn't deserve a second of credit for beating the world champions if it happened because the Tampa kicker missed at the end.

And then you said that you don't agree that Dallas "hung tough" with Tampa (they lost by 1)

And then you suggested that I think Dallas is a world-beater which I never said or suggested.

 

 

[Cobbler1]

“Wrong as usual”

and your calling my opinions “nonsense” and estimating that surely I must own Elliot to have a negative opinion about his usage. 

That’s cool, I have thick skin. Just note that I didn’t once disrespect you or Cobbler in here during this discussion. 

I’ve made all the points I need to make in here. Y’all carry on heaping praise on that 0-1 Dallas team for their brilliant game plan. 

You tossed a lot of passive aggressive sarcasm his way. You do it a lot on these boards and you should probably stop if you can’t handle it some rudeness being tossed back at you.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You tossed a lot of passive aggressive sarcasm his way. You do it a lot on these boards and you should probably stop if you can’t handle it some rudeness being tossed back at you.

I wasn’t passive aggressive or sarcastic at all in this discussion. Not once. 

Keep making excuses blaming me for your blatant disrespect though. It’s a good look. 

 

[Deamon]

He’s upset I said he was wrong “as usual”. He’s right I shouldn’t have said he was wrong as usual. It’s ok to be wrong. The annoying part to me is he digs in to a clearly wrong stance. I should have said HSG is dug in as usual (and in this case wrong) so let’s all move on. 

Ya, it's fully OK to be wrong but it seems he can't handle that and doubles down his stance.  Even fabricates numbers that he refuses to back up when asked about it.  It's a strange hill to die on especially for not being a Zeke owner.  The pretty common theme today is that Dallas played very well and had a good game plan.  I hate them but can respect them that they adjusted very well and probably outcoached Tampa last night with their game planning.  Perhaps the praise should be for their OC and not their HC (not actually sure who game plans and who calls the plays in their system)

 

[Dr. Octopus]

no, I’m not. I’m going by the “have the lead, take a knee and go to the locker room with the lead” instead of trying a very low % play where a much higher % of bad things can happen, including an opposing score or injury. 

Obviously a Hail Mary is a low percentage play - but it’s also far less likely the defensive team will score. I don’t remember ever seeing the other team intercept a Hail Mary and return it for a TD - last night was the only time I’ve even seen a long return - the correct play there is for the defensive player to knock the ball down in fact.

 

[Deamon]

To be perfectly clear, you’re saying if Succup missed a chip shot FG & Dallas won because of it, they’d deserve heaps of praise, and *I’m* off the rails? 

yeah sure ok pal.  

"Yeah sure ok pal lol" isn't passive aggressive or sarcastic?
 

But hey, you see Dallas as a world beater & think they hung tough with TB. That abandoning the run before the 1st snap was great strategy and a recipe for beating TB.

All good. 

Never said they were a world beater, you made that up.

Yes they "hung tough" with TB.  They lost by 2.  

Zeke was a world beater too, while we’re at it. If the cowboys play this well every week he’s gonna be an all-pro.

How bout them cowboys! 

This isn't sarcastic?
 

I wasn’t passive aggressive or sarcastic at all in this discussion. Not once. 

hmmm.... really?  See above.

 

[Deamon]

Obviously a Hail Mary is a low percentage play - but it’s also far less likely the defensive team will score. I don’t remember ever seeing the other team intercept a Hail Mary and return it for a TD - last night was the only time I’ve even seen a long return - the correct play there is for the defensive player to knock the ball down in fact.

Correct.  The right play is to do the Hail Mary there.  Because there was a long return, HSG is saying it was a bad play.  Had it been caught, he wouldn't have said a thing.  Just like had Dallas won, he wouldn't be in here making up numbers and saying how terrible their game plan was and that they didn't even hang tough with Tampa this game.

 

[Stat Correction]

Bottom line:

Have shares of Pollard in all 5 of my redraft leagues. Thought he looked good last night against a very stout run D. That offense is explosive, and he seems to fit the scheme perfectly. If Zeke were to miss time.....look out.

MVHC in my opinion. (Most Valuable Handcuff)

 

[TampaMike19]

Huh?  Prescott has the 6th highest TD to INt ratio in NFL HISTORY.  Throwing pics is most definitely not "who he is."

I'm just predicting this year due to the possible higher than normal volume he will be achieving. Not because he sucks, he's great, but higher pass attempts = more INTS

 

[Tau837]

Surprised at the level of discussion in this thread. It's usually better in the Shark Pool IMO. It would help if everyone would stop bickering and keep the focus on Elliott since this is the Elliott thread...

 

[VaTerp]

I'm just predicting this year due to the possible higher than normal volume he will be achieving. Not because he sucks, he's great, but higher pass attempts = more INTS

Oh ok.  Gotcha.  I also think the higher volume and being more aggressive will have some natural uptick in ints.  But I still strongly disagree with the that's who he is framing.

 

[Deamon]

Bottom line:

Have shares of Pollard in all 5 of my redraft leagues. Thought he looked good last night against a very stout run D. That offense is explosive, and he seems to fit the scheme perfectly. If Zeke were to miss time.....look out.

MVHC in my opinion. (Most Valuable Handcuff)

Easily.  I thought Pollard looked better than Zeke last year.  I think the gap between them is much smaller than people think.

 

[Banger]

To me Zeke's value this year is largely dependent on their defense and if they can keep them in games.  Last night was a tough task but if they can stay in games Zeke should be fine but if they are in shootouts like they were every week last year he'll have stat lines similar to last night.  

Also, agree that Pollard looks good and there isn't a big drop off with him running/receiving so he'll cut into his numbers a bit as well.  I think people hoping for a top 5 back will be disappointed....I think he'll be in the RB10-15 region.

 

[tangfoot]

Easily.  I thought Pollard looked better than Zeke last year.  I think the gap between them is much smaller than people think.

I didn't see it last year, and I didn't see it last night.

 

[Deamon]

I didn't see it last year, and I didn't see it last night.

I dunno.  Pollard had a better YPC and YPR than Zeke last year.  I don't think the gap is that huge.

 

[Banger]

I dunno.  Pollard had a better YPC and YPR than Zeke last year.  I don't think the gap is that huge.

I don't think it is either...what is huge is the amount of money Dallas invested in Zeke so as long as he's on the roster he'll get the majority of work.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I'm just predicting this year due to the possible higher than normal volume he will be achieving. Not because he sucks, he's great, but higher pass attempts = more INTS

That’s not what you said.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Obviously a Hail Mary is a low percentage play - but it’s also far less likely the defensive team will score. I don’t remember ever seeing the other team intercept a Hail Mary and return it for a TD - last night was the only time I’ve even seen a long return - the correct play there is for the defensive player to knock the ball down in fact.

I don’t disagree with this.

when making the comment about the fail Mary I didn’t suggest the opposing team scoring - someone else did in response to my post. 

I’m also very used to seeing Brady with a halftime lead taking a knee in that situation, so it especially stood out as odd.

while we’re on it, how many steps did Brady take in that running start to get the ball that far? Looks like he jogged up into it. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I didn't see it last year, and I didn't see it last night.

I saw it at times last year. I agree Pollard didn’t look better than Zeke Last night.

minuscule sample size for both, obviously. 

 

[Tanner9919]

last night looked like a case of 'we're going to air it out come hell or high water' . K. Moore is a retired QB he has that QB mentality of pass first, ask questions later. I'm worried that what we saw last season is what we'll once again see for 2021, i.e., fewer carries. 2020 was the lowest carry total since 2017 ( 242, 244).  The line has deteriorated somewhat over the years. Still a good unit, but not the NFLs best like it was.

Hopefully this is just a one-game thing. I'd consider shopping him if he goes off next weekend. you'd be selling on the low if you trade him today..

 

[TampaMike19]

That’s not what you said.

I stand corrected. Still meant the ints to more attempts though!

 

[TVT 0 N S T A]

last night looked like a case of 'we're going to air it out come hell or high water' . K. Moore is a retired QB he has that QB mentality of pass first, ask questions later. I'm worried that what we saw last season is what we'll once again see for 2021, i.e., fewer carries. 2020 was the lowest carry total since 2017 ( 242, 244).  The line has deteriorated somewhat over the years. Still a good unit, but not the NFLs best like it was.

Hopefully this is just a one-game thing. I'd consider shopping him if he goes off next weekend. you'd be selling on the low if you trade him today..

Tampa allowed 80 rush yards/game last year... Vea and Suh combine for almost 700 pounds and Dallas was without their best interior offensive lineman.  I don't disagree with the gameplan and I do anticipate they will be more balanced.  Zeke hasn't lost a step, he was just running into his own linemen's asses because they were getting driven back.  Tyler Biadasz, specifically, on a couple occassions was slow to cut off the linebacker and make it to the next level.  

It's funny, becaue the media and some fans will still continue to tote how great the Dallas Offensive line is - when Travis Frederick retired, that line took a hit.  Without Zack Martin - we just have 2 good/great tackles.  I'm not sure what interior presence you expected to push back that Tampa front 7.  

Great game and a lot to be excited about.  Don't sleep on Zeke. 

 

[Jail]

yep - I made that point earlier. He looked sluggish to the corner and crumpled on contact.

old Zeke wins that battle and scores a TD. 

Yep. right out of the locker room - that’s exactly what I take issue with.

Look, a team doesn’t have to be incredibly successful running the ball to make PA passing work. Just the threat that they might do it makes it work.

and to do that they have to run, to whatever degree of effectiveness. 

And going almost exclusively out of the shotgun isn’t going to put that fear in an opponent. 

one could argue that they didn’t need PA to open up their pass game since they passed so effectively, but then why not try a RB draw out of the gun to mix it up?

Then when down 2 scores, Dallas actually started running the ball? That was weird too.  

I agree with almost every word of this. 

It is a strange position that you are arguing.  You seem to be saying that Zeke didn't look good,  but that Dallas should have given him the ball more?