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RB Ezekiel Elliott, LAC (1 Viewer)

And they won how many championships during that time?
That wasn't really my point, but I do hear what your saying.   Dallas will be really bad this year if zeke isn't there, they won't be really bad this year if he is there, they probably arnt winning a super bowl either way though I guess.   The whole offense is build around him, not dak or cooper imo.   And the pollard talk the last couple pages is laughable.

 
lol, seriously. Dude plays ok in the 2nd preseason game and some fans seem to think he is a future Hall of Famer. 

and i can't fathom how anyone feels what Jerry did was good/smart/etc. Childish, immature, and simply egocentric to feel his comments are bigger than the team. I can not imagine what that lockerroom feels knowing they are playing for an owner who's ego is bigger than the entire team. They realize they are being letdown by Zeke not being on the field, and Jerry can't get out of his own way.

 
Hello, straw man/false dilemma.

Because I suppose nothing else impacts winning or losing. It’s not a team sport & their competition wasn't also trying to win. 🙄

this discussion had been of decent quality until this response. Be better. 👍🏼
:confused:   The goal is to win the Super Bowl. A team led by AP didn't get there. Name the last team with a high priced RB to win? Not a straw man at all, just reality.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I do hope they sign Zeke to a big contract.

 
I’d estimate Zeke at +2 wins over replacement player over the course of the season. 

He’s averaged 2000+/13, & much of that against quality defenses. 

You can’t easily replace that production.  And in a game where every win is critical, 1-2 wins could mean missing the playoffs. 
I don’t think any rb is worth 2 wins. I don’t think that production would need to be fully replaced. More passing, with a full season of cooper, year 2 of Gallup, the addition of Cobb, and the return of  witten. Dallas passing game is probably the best it’s been since the Austin/dez/witten trio in 2012.

 
:confused:   The goal is to win the Super Bowl. A team led by AP didn't get there. Name the last team with a high priced RB to win? Not a straw man at all, just reality.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I do hope they sign Zeke to a big contract.
That's fine, but your comment was a ridiculous fallacy implying that only super bowl winning teams have quality players.

i wasn’t the only one to call you on it. 

You can make a case for Zeke being worth it or not without that. 

 
I don’t think any rb is worth 2 wins. I don’t think that production would need to be fully replaced. More passing, with a full season of cooper, year 2 of Gallup, the addition of Cobb, and the return of  witten. Dallas passing game is probably the best it’s been since the Austin/dez/witten trio in 2012.
Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, maaaaan. ;)  

Mine is that Zeke is the engine that makes that offense go. 

Jerry Jones is an idiot for his insulting “Zeke who” comment after that 2nd preseason game. 

It is what it is. If Zeke is worth +1 win over the course of the season, the Cowboys should pay him. Because wins in the NFL are critical due to the short season. 

1 win can mean playoffs or long vacation. 

 
That's fine, but your comment was a ridiculous fallacy implying that only super bowl winning teams have quality players.

i wasn’t the only one to call you on it. 

You can make a case for Zeke being worth it or not without that. 
Sorry if you interpreted that way. Merely that recent SB winning teams do not have high priced RBs. Show me one of you disagree. I could be missing one.

 
Sorry if you interpreted that way. Merely that recent SB winning teams do not have high priced RBs. Show me one of you disagree. I could be missing one.
So you’re saying because those teams didn’t have high priced running backs they won a SB? 

That seems like another fallacy since there could in fact be other reasons those teams won a SB. 

The fact is that Zeke is a special talent. Those types of players typically earn more than others. You seem to imply that Zeke is just a guy & the cowboys lose nothing without him.

 I could not disagree more. And I’m a life-long cowboy hater. 

 
Did any teams with highly paid RBs make the playoffs? 

Did any get to the SB but lose?

pretty sure the answer is yes, and recently. 
I think the original posters point and mine as well is that most winning teams recently seem to be prioritizing their salary cap $$ to other positions over RB.  Things change.  To pay Zeke more money, you have to take that money away from other positions.

Is Zeke an excellent, top 3 RB in the NFL, sure he is.  Is it worth paying any RB a substantial amount of your salary cap, I would suggest that it is not.

 
So you’re saying because those teams didn’t have high priced running backs they won a SB? 

That seems like another fallacy since there could in fact be other reasons those teams won a SB. 

The fact is that Zeke is a special talent. Those types of players typically earn more than others. You seem to imply that Zeke is just a guy & the cowboys lose nothing without him.

 I could not disagree more. And I’m a life-long cowboy hater. 
Its the current priority on salary cap pay scale. RBs don't rate. I've said many times Zeke is a superior talent, so don't imply anything.

QBs, DEs, WRs get the big money. I'm out.

 
Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, maaaaan. ;)  

Mine is that Zeke is the engine that makes that offense go. 

Jerry Jones is an idiot for his insulting “Zeke who” comment after that 2nd preseason game. 

It is what it is. If Zeke is worth +1 win over the course of the season, the Cowboys should pay him. Because wins in the NFL are critical due to the short season. 

1 win can mean playoffs or long vacation. 
In the last 2 seasons, before the Cooper trade, the Cowboys were 9-8 with Elliot and 3-3 without Elliot. One of those wins was the last game of the 2017 season when the Eagles rested all their starters, so really 8-8 with Elliot in meaningful games. So does Elliot make that much of a difference? Just sayin...

Once they added Cooper, the Cowboys went 6-2 with Elliot and 1-0 without him and that game was a meaningless last game of the season.

My opinion is that offenses are so hard to stop now because they use a variety of players to beat you. When defenses take away one option, offenses go a different way. When a team like the Cowboys relies so heavily on one player (Elliot) it makes it easier for good teams to take away that option. I think that is why you see so few 25 carries a game running backs because it makes it easier for the defense to defend against that offense.

 
In the last 2 seasons, before the Cooper trade, the Cowboys were 9-8 with Elliot and 3-3 without Elliot. One of those wins was the last game of the 2017 season when the Eagles rested all their starters, so really 8-8 with Elliot in meaningful games. So does Elliot make that much of a difference? Just sayin...

Once they added Cooper, the Cowboys went 6-2 with Elliot and 1-0 without him and that game was a meaningless last game of the season.

My opinion is that offenses are so hard to stop now because they use a variety of players to beat you. When defenses take away one option, offenses go a different way. When a team like the Cowboys relies so heavily on one player (Elliot) it makes it easier for good teams to take away that option. I think that is why you see so few 25 carries a game running backs because it makes it easier for the defense to defend against that offense.
Why leave his rookie year out of the sample size?

 
Unfortunately for the players, they play a position that is currently not a priority in today's NFL. QBs, DEs, and WRs get the top money. Just the way of the NFL. RBs are replaceable.
Which is why he needs to hold out now while he has some leverage. In Year 4 he will have zero leverage and has to hope someone will over pay for him.

 
I’d estimate Zeke at +2 wins over replacement player over the course of the season. 

He’s averaged 2000+/13, & much of that against quality defenses. 

You can’t easily replace that production.  And in a game where every win is critical, 1-2 wins could mean missing the playoffs. 
That's not even factoring in their offensive philosophy with Zeke helping their defense. Without Zeke, TOP goes down and keeps the Cowboy D on the field longer limiting their effectiveness. RBs are a mistreated position but that doesn't mean some are not integral to their team's success.

 
I think 2016 was somewhat of an outlier for the Cowboys offense. The offensive line which was already good, was very healthy in 2016 only missing 7 starts amongst the 5 starters. Both Dak and Zeke were in their rookie years so defenses were still learning how to defend them. Yes, counting the 2016 season would weaken my argument but I do think what happened in 2016 is less relevent to 2019 than 2017 and 2018 are.

To my point about teams diversifying their offense more in recent years to make themselves harder to defend, Consider:

In 2016, 11 players had 250 or more carries

In 2017, 8 players had 250 or more carries 

In 2018, 6 players had 250 or more carries

The era of bellcow running backs is fading. The Cowboys can stick with handing the ball off to Zeke 300 times a season, but that makes them more predictable than other offenses. It will be interesting to see if there is a significant change in the Cowboys offense under Kellen Moore, both if Zeke reports and if he does not report.

 
Got a message from Sleeper saying that there is a press conference @ 530 to announce a contract extension with a certain player. If that player is not Zeke... Wow. This could get ugly.

 
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Got a message from Sleeper saying that there is a press conference @ 530 to announce a contract extension with a certain player. If that player is not Zeke... Wow. This could get ugly.
But yes, the fact that they're holding a presser for it and announcing said presser, when all this is going on with Zeke, is NOT going to sit well with him or his agent (especially based on how they took JJ's joke).

Starting to actually believe he won't be back until mid season.

 
That's not even factoring in their offensive philosophy with Zeke helping their defense. Without Zeke, TOP goes down and keeps the Cowboy D on the field longer limiting their effectiveness. RBs are a mistreated position but that doesn't mean some are not integral to their team's success.
Definitely factors in.

when I say Zeke is worth +2, it’s not in a vacuum.

a good run game opens up the passing play action game.

a good run game slows down drives, eats clock, keeps a defense rested. 

A bad running game does the opposite.

 
Elliot caught 77 balls last season so him being in the backfield does not make the play-calling predictable.
Well, the knock on Dallas' offense has been that it has been too predictable. Isn't that why they brought in Kellen Moore as OC?

What's funny about last season is when Cooper came to the Cowboys, Zeke's usage actually went up. Maybe having another good option at WR opened some things up for Zeke? Although their offensive output didn't really change (20 points per game in the first 7 games last year, 20 points per game in the next 8. I left out the last game because Elliot did not play)

 
Well, the knock on Dallas' offense has been that it has been too predictable. Isn't that why they brought in Kellen Moore as OC?

What's funny about last season is when Cooper came to the Cowboys, Zeke's usage actually went up. Maybe having another good option at WR opened some things up for Zeke? Although their offensive output didn't really change (20 points per game in the first 7 games last year, 20 points per game in the next 8. I left out the last game because Elliot did not play)
 Well if Cooper’s planter fasciitis is a real problem, then the Cowboys could be in real trouble if that’s the case. 

Might need Elliott even more. 

 
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Well, the knock on Dallas' offense has been that it has been too predictable. Isn't that why they brought in Kellen Moore as OC?
What does that have to do with Zeke the player? He wasn't calling the plays.

You insinuated that him being in the backfield is what made their offense predictable - which doesn't make sense because a RB in the backfield that can hurt you on the ground or in the passing game makes the offense less predictable.

 
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What does that have to do with Zeke the player? He wasn't calling the plays.

You insinuated than him being in the backfield is what made their offense predictable - which doesn't make sense because a back in the backfield that can hurt you on the ground or in the passing game makes the offense less predictable.
No, you are right, I am a little bit all over the place. I do think that having so much of the offense running through Zeke, whether he is running or catching the ball is a weakness. The Cowboys offense struggled last year because before Cooper got there, Zeke was pretty much the only threat on offense. Having Cooper helps. If Gallup improves and they develop a TE then all of a sudden they are really tough to defend.

Somebody above did make a good point that having Zeke used so much helps with time of possession and helps the defense. So that is a positive that doesn't show up in the offensive stats.

 
If you take Zeke in Round 1, maybe Round 8/9 for Pollard?
Yep.  Maybe 9th if you didn't take him.  Remember how many people were kicking themselves for leaving Connor on the board in round 10 last year?  Memories of Connor's season might push Pollard up too high come draft time.

 
Extending Jaylon Smith...

In the middle of all this...

Love it, Jerry!

This. Is. Awesome.
if Jerry never gets JJ and lucks into some of the players they had during his tenure he would be the laughing stock of the league. He already partially is, but literally sabotaging your entire team because your ego is so large that he can't handle being out of the press. 

guy is a literal clown, and it is amazing he has been allowed to do well acting this way for so long

 

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