I think we just found the answer to the NFL's declining viewership problem.
This would be must-see TV!
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
RB Ezekiel Elliott, LAC (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
This would be must-see TV!
Football Jones
Footballguy
Put it this way...
If it was the other way around & the NFL was trying to get out of a bargain-for contractual agreement, the NFLPA would be up in arms, LOL.
You get what you bargain for. Period. The arbitrator ruled in favor of the NFL. End of story.
If it was the other way around & the NFL was trying to get out of a bargain-for contractual agreement, the NFLPA would be up in arms, LOL.
You get what you bargain for. Period. The arbitrator ruled in favor of the NFL. End of story.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I think you answered your own question. Beat someone up on the field of play with full video = no suspension. Beat someone up in the privacy of your own home with no video = 6 game suspension. This makes perfect sense for league imposed player punishment.
theplayer11
Footballguy
good point..any player who did this off the playing field would have goodell handing out a 4 game suspension.
A choke take down from behind and multiple punches thrown..no biggie
You say that like the NFL is being unreasonable.
Of course they want to retain the powers they bargained for in the CBA. So does the NFLPA.
Just making the point that it stopped being about deflated footballs and domestic abuse once it entered the courts (despite repeated posts of “the balls weren’t even deflated!” & “there’s no proof he abused her!” That still persist).
Steeler
Footballguy
The next hearing is Thursday, right? What are the chances the suspension gets put on hold until next year?
I have Zeke in one league and have been trying to trade for him all year in another league. However, I haven't been paying very close attention to all the league crap - I've just started him all year since he hasn't been suspended (duh) and figure I'll sit him when/if he is suspended (double, duh). While trying to trade for Zeke I've been trying to sell the idea that I'll take all the "suspension risk" and the other owner can be done with it. I offered Freeman earlier in the year before he sucked, and I even offered Brady at one point, but the guy hasn't budged. So now that the suspension seems imminent he sent me a message saying that he's planning to offer a trade involving Zeke after waivers run tonight. Brah - WTF do I want with Zeke at this point? He can't help me this year if he's suspended on Thursday and now I don't get the benefit of the games he's played up until the suspension. Pretty sure I'm going to decline the offer unless Zeke can play out this year (or there is a decent enough chance of it happening).
I have Zeke in one league and have been trying to trade for him all year in another league. However, I haven't been paying very close attention to all the league crap - I've just started him all year since he hasn't been suspended (duh) and figure I'll sit him when/if he is suspended (double, duh). While trying to trade for Zeke I've been trying to sell the idea that I'll take all the "suspension risk" and the other owner can be done with it. I offered Freeman earlier in the year before he sucked, and I even offered Brady at one point, but the guy hasn't budged. So now that the suspension seems imminent he sent me a message saying that he's planning to offer a trade involving Zeke after waivers run tonight. Brah - WTF do I want with Zeke at this point? He can't help me this year if he's suspended on Thursday and now I don't get the benefit of the games he's played up until the suspension. Pretty sure I'm going to decline the offer unless Zeke can play out this year (or there is a decent enough chance of it happening).
The General
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
If you like to gamble you go for it, if you are risk adverse you pass.
I think he's getting suspended when this last hearing thing rules. Everyone is just guessing at this point. Some people just sound better when they are guessing.
ourmanflint
Footballguy
Do the judges consider "Harm to The Public" before a Decesion goes either way (Administrative injuction)?
The Judges do know millions of Fans and millions of Fantasy Football players are effected, right?
Logically, keep running on the norm is best before a side wins or loses? Zeke playing is the norm
and has played 8 games under three injuctions, so precedence or creating precedence can be claimed by both sides.
Harm to The NFL has occurred, Harm to Zeke in unknown, harm to the Public (administratively) is uncertain if injuction lifted.
For example, a 7 year old cancer patient get tickets to a game and will meet Zeke before The Game as he is his favorite player.
The Court lifts The Injuction and Zeke misses the rest of 2018. The 7 year old can't even meet Zeke on the Field or Locker room.
Oh, well Make-a-wish can redo it's good deed next year only The 7 year old never sees 2018.
I know, I know, The Judicial response is "THE COURT DOESN'T CARE"!
The Judges do know millions of Fans and millions of Fantasy Football players are effected, right?
Logically, keep running on the norm is best before a side wins or loses? Zeke playing is the norm
and has played 8 games under three injuctions, so precedence or creating precedence can be claimed by both sides.
Harm to The NFL has occurred, Harm to Zeke in unknown, harm to the Public (administratively) is uncertain if injuction lifted.
For example, a 7 year old cancer patient get tickets to a game and will meet Zeke before The Game as he is his favorite player.
The Court lifts The Injuction and Zeke misses the rest of 2018. The 7 year old can't even meet Zeke on the Field or Locker room.
Oh, well Make-a-wish can redo it's good deed next year only The 7 year old never sees 2018.
I know, I know, The Judicial response is "THE COURT DOESN'T CARE"!
Think of the next woman who might actually walk out of Zeke's apartment without a swollen lip or a cut over her eye. All because a suspension and money loss made an immature kid with anger issues wake up. Children with cancer, battered women...there are lots of things that are a shame. We can only control so much.
But, Why? I thought The Injuction was administrative and not about the case or innocence or guilt?
themeistersinger
Footballguy
NO PART of this case (within the courts) is about innocence or guilt. It is about whether the NFL followed a procedure that meets the criteria of the CBA. There is a presumption that an arbitration procedure will be fundamentally fair. Zeke is claiming it was not fair. If the courts think it was at least "fair enough", no injunction will be granted and that's the end of it. If the court thinks "maybe he's got a point", then they might grant the injunction, which only stays the suspension until a trial decides the issue. They could still say now "maybe he has a point so we'll grant the TRO" and then after the trial say "no, it was fair, NFL wins". So a win this week for Zeke is no more than a delay of the suspension.
And again, nobody in any of the court proceedings is presenting any evidence of Zeke's guilt or innocence. It is not relevant to this week's proceedings.
And again, nobody in any of the court proceedings is presenting any evidence of Zeke's guilt or innocence. It is not relevant to this week's proceedings.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
That is correct. It's about the fact the player's union agreed to let the league office, Goodell in particular, make the determination on guilt/innocence and punishment. And then everytime they don't like said decision, they cry and act like life isn't fair. This is exactly why Brady lost. Do better next time when negotiating the CBA. BUt stop crying about what you agreed to last time.
Aren't there Labor Laws against one sided documents? Shouldn't The Constitution outlaw them? The NFL decides, The NFL arbitrates, The NFL runs appeals, The NFL makes final decisions. Isn't all recourse the NFL's decision if The US Court System is left out and is leaving it out constitutional?
That is what this back and forth has been deciding. In the end, the rulings have all swayed ion the league's favor. The player's association agree to it. Maybe this, it'll be different. The players got a lot the last time the hade a CBA. They hardly ever have to practice in pads anymore. The 18 game schedule that the league wants was shot down. It's always give and take.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No, I'm a Viking in Bear Country. My grandparents came over from Denmark, but I have ties to the1981 and 1982 Bears.(family).
themeistersinger
Footballguy
Yes, of course the NFL should care. And I also care. If he really abused this woman, then of course he should be suspended for the full 6 games, because that is the league's policy. And if he did not abuse her, he should get no suspension at all. That's why the stuff about a shorter suspension makes no sense to me.
All I am saying is that for this particular court case, before the Court of Appeals on Thursday, Zeke's guilt or innocence is not going to be addressed at all by the court. They are only trying to determine if there is sufficient probability that Zeke MIGHT win in a full trial (and again, the full trial doesn't determine of Zeke is guilty or innocent, it only determines if he got a fair shake under the arbitration). If they think there is a significant chance that Zeke might win his argument that the arbitration process was unfair, then they would grant the TRO. If they think there's little or no chance, they won't give him the TRO.
Even if he doesn't get the TRO, the case probably still goes to trial in the District Court some day. And if Zeke wins there, he'd get back pay, but of course the games would have already been played and he would have been out. As fantasy owners, selfishly, that's the only part that we care about.
timschochet
Footballguy
I just feel like Franz Kafka would have enjoyed this.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Agree 100%.
Except the part I care most about is Goodell's misuse and abuse of power.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
Thought this was interesting
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/256456/why-thursday-hearing-is-crucial-for-ezekiel-elliotts-future
"It could come down to the court’s opinion on Failla’s rejection of Elliott’s claim that the balance of harms worked in his favor. Failla was of the opinion that Elliott could, if he ended up winning the larger appeal, be made whole via financial reward. It’s possible the 2nd Circuit could agree with Elliott and his attorneys that six missed games for a player whose average career length is 3.5 years is significant enough to constitute irreparable harm, and that the league won’t suffer if it has to wait until next year to suspend him."
I had assumed that the irreparable harm part of the argument was a slam dunk in Elliott's favor. It was only the likelihood of prevailing that I thought would be the part where he might lose.
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/256456/why-thursday-hearing-is-crucial-for-ezekiel-elliotts-future
"It could come down to the court’s opinion on Failla’s rejection of Elliott’s claim that the balance of harms worked in his favor. Failla was of the opinion that Elliott could, if he ended up winning the larger appeal, be made whole via financial reward. It’s possible the 2nd Circuit could agree with Elliott and his attorneys that six missed games for a player whose average career length is 3.5 years is significant enough to constitute irreparable harm, and that the league won’t suffer if it has to wait until next year to suspend him."
I had assumed that the irreparable harm part of the argument was a slam dunk in Elliott's favor. It was only the likelihood of prevailing that I thought would be the part where he might lose.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
2pm today right? Likely early enough for them to rule tonight or tomorrow morning either way?
Widbil83
Footballguy
ESPN forgot Veterans Day is tomorrow so if there isn't a ruling today he plays Sunday.
The General
Footballguy
Judgement Day, Part VI
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Are the courts closed Friday? Veterans Day is Saturday. Most banks are open Friday. Not sure about courts.
Hilts
Footballguy
bigupsetter
Footballguy
Elliot plays this week as the NFL wont start a suspension on a Sunday if the guy is eligible on Thursday, as all the planning and practicing done. So it really doesn't matter for this week when the decision is made
Last edited by a moderator:
Moonshine
Footballguy
https://www.nycourts.gov/admin/holidayschedule.shtml
Veteran's day is a recognized court holiday, per the schedule above
Moonshine
Footballguy
Is this really the case? I remember there was a lot of back and forth on this subject earlier in the year when the suspension decision was looming late in the week. The initial thought was essentially what you wrote, but a pretty significant coalition of sports writers and even an NFL rep or two said that it wasn't the case, that the NFL could levy the suspension at any time and it would be effective immediately, regardless of how close to game time they were. There wasn't any secret "decision has to made by X on Wed/Thurs/Fri/Saturday or it wouldn't be effective that Sunday," regardless of people's initial belief's that there was.
I haven't been able to find anything conclusive on it. Do you have anything to demonstrate that this is indeed definitely the case? It would be wildly helpful for roster decisions.
bigupsetter
Footballguy
It's already Thursday, Elliot is eligible, if it goes the NFL's way they will start next week.
Haven't seen this POV communicated anywhere in the media.
If this was the case, there should be a "Zeke starts" headline on the ESPN home page.
bigupsetter
Footballguy
Its either an NFL rule, or unspoken one. Plus is Goodell really going to throw more gasoline on the fire know as Jerry Jones?
bigupsetter
Footballguy
If there were a "Zeke Starts" then it would not be able to milk the results, no one would care
haha
Moonshine
Footballguy
To your second point, I wouldn't be surprised to see Goodell personally deliver Elliot's letter of suspension to Jones himself, then moonwalk out of there while flipping double birds to Jones and everyone else in the building. I think for years to come there will be a professional, yet hard to miss, "come at me bro" mentality between the two of these men.
To your first point, I really think it was all conjecture at the beginning of the season that was proven false. Until I see something concrete that indicates a player is eligible to play if a suspension is levied too late in the week, I think Elliot could get the call five minutes before game time and be forced to sit it out. I'm planning accordingly.
Last edited by a moderator:
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
I need this guy to play this week and start serving his suspension next week. I have been holding Morris all year, so having a potential RB1 through the championship could be that bump that puts me over the top. Doesn't hurt that the team ahead of me has Zeke.
bigupsetter
Footballguy
When it comes to this situation you always have to plan for worst. It is a horrible ping pong ball. This personal conduct policy is going to be a big topic during the next CBA. The only clear winners are the attorneys
The Frankman
Footballguy
Here we go... all over again. FOR THE NTEETNTH TIME.
Basically it comes down to Brady. Zeke's lawyers have skirted it as The Wall That Cannot Be Broached because it's the NFL's ace in the hole. This time they have to find something new that they can attack it head-on, or find something they can end-around it with. So far, nothing's worked. The "irreparable harm" argument didn't seem to work last time when going up vs. Brady, so it's up to his lawyers to try something else
Basically it comes down to Brady. Zeke's lawyers have skirted it as The Wall That Cannot Be Broached because it's the NFL's ace in the hole. This time they have to find something new that they can attack it head-on, or find something they can end-around it with. So far, nothing's worked. The "irreparable harm" argument didn't seem to work last time when going up vs. Brady, so it's up to his lawyers to try something else
Last edited by a moderator:
The General
Footballguy
Jerry now pitching a fit about getting Goodell fired is pretty great. Most Jerry thing ever.
Last edited by a moderator:
The Frankman
Footballguy
I would've thought signing Greg Hardy and then making him a team captain was, but this is too.
