Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Him and Harris are a pretty dynamic combo.
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RB James Cook, BUF (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Ilov80s
Footballguy
At this point any RB taken has an uphill battle getting PT over Cook and Harris.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah, nice complements for each other IMO.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Harris hasn’t been the model of health over the years, which gives me even more reason for optimism.
Swift to the Eagles - one more bullet dodged.
I’d still worry about Dalvin Cook a little bit though I don’t know if that’s realistic.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Pretty quiet on the Cook front. Any insight on how this backfield shakes out if they do not add anyone else? Will James be the RB1A?
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Quite frankly, I don't see a path to owning a BUF RB. Consider from 2020-2022:
Josh Allen has combined for an average of 739.3 combined pass/rush attempts & sacks. That's an absurdly high ratio of their overall total plays. The offense is built around him. BUF brought in Damien Harris to provide a more physical presence to their run game. A likely 'inside the 5' option which Zach Moss never developed into.
While Singletary is gone who has been the primary pass catcher out of the backfield the last 3 years, they just drafted Kincaid, so I suspect some of those RB targets will be diverted to TE as Knox is still a viable option.
It's just a really crowded offenses.
Josh Allen has combined for an average of 739.3 combined pass/rush attempts & sacks. That's an absurdly high ratio of their overall total plays. The offense is built around him. BUF brought in Damien Harris to provide a more physical presence to their run game. A likely 'inside the 5' option which Zach Moss never developed into.
While Singletary is gone who has been the primary pass catcher out of the backfield the last 3 years, they just drafted Kincaid, so I suspect some of those RB targets will be diverted to TE as Knox is still a viable option.
It's just a really crowded offenses.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
IMO Cook takes over the Singletary role.
Allen continues to vulture GL, but the team has expressed an interest in reducing his rushing - which I’ll believe when I see, but he’s taken some monster hits, including the elbow last year that impacted his play at times.
In that light, I believe Cook will lead the committee. Since Harris can’t stay healthy & Murray is 33 (hey, maybe he’s there to take the GL & alleviate some of the Allen short yardage rushes) so I’d expect
RB2 FF numbers from Cook this year.
He’ll be the RB1 of the Bills, which is not a featured back role. But with receptions his value will be pretty solid. And if/when Harris/Murray get dinged up, he could see a spike bordering on low end RB1 numbers.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Is it? Diggs is unhappy. Davis seems like a low volume deep threat. Knox has been like 50 catch guy who now has competition at TE. Still Kincaid is a rookie TE. These guys rarely do much, even when drafted in the 1st round. Cook is certainly unproven as well but if he's good there seems like room to me for a guy to step up and earn a bigger slice of the pie.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
At this point in time, his ADP is more like round 6/7 though that could change by the time drafts come. Also, I don't know how many players you can keep that obviously waters down your draft pool a bit.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
The last 3 years, Josh Allen has combined for 2218 pass/rush attempts plus sacks, an average of 739/season.
Damien Harris was brought in to lighten the load a bit, plus he was 2021 Jamaal Williams, so me thinks he'll be the inside the 5 guy.
To me, his ceiling doesn't seem to be that much different than Singletary's before him.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Certainly possible. The Bills staff have been really vocal about wanting Allen to take less hits so there could be more dump offs and checkdowns. If not, the difference between Cook and Singletary is explosive playmaking. 4.66 speed vs 4.42 speed. I know it was a limited workload but Cook was among the best in the league in explosive play metrics last year and I think he's much more dynamic receiver than Singletary.The last 3 years, Josh Allen has combined for 2218 pass/rush attempts plus sacks, an average of 739/season.
Damien Harris was brought in to lighten the load a bit, plus he was 2021 Jamaal Williams, so me thinks he'll be the inside the 5 guy.
To me, his ceiling doesn't seem to be that much different than Singletary's before him.
We can keep as many as we want as long as we have the draft capital so the pool is watered down quite a bit. My keepers this year are Kupp (1st), Allen (12th), Jefferson (8th), AJ Dillon (6th), Toney (16th), Pierce (9th) for example...most teams are similar.
My gut tells me he is a drop...
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Hmmm that makes me think the opposite. Let’s just say most teams are keeping 5.5 guys and it’s a 12 teamer.) That’s 66 players. Let’s assume 2/3 of them are players who normally would get taken before Cook. That’s probably low based on your keepers. So that is 50 guys or about 4 rounds of players better than Cook who aren’t in the pool. That turns Cook from a round 6/7 guy to 2/3 guy.
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finfansteve
Footballguy
He’s in contention with Herbert, Kittle, and toney to be my last keeper in my ten team, 9 player keeper, 1QB league and I’m waiting to see how they plan to use him but the longer it takes opportunities to trade him slip by. I believe he will be a productive player and rank within the top 25 rbs end of year but will he be a player to count on week to week?
Round 6/7 is where everyone starts grabbing the rookie rbs...so it's a big time flyer against Cook
Ilov80s
Footballguy
.
Which rookie RBs? Surely Bijan and Gibbs will be long long gone. After that, what rookie RBs are we talking? Charbonet? Achane? Kendre Miller? I would have all those guys pretty much in the same tier as Cook. And if every team is keeping 5-7 players, I would be surprised if those RBs make it to round 6-7. Though I guess I never asked how many teams are in your league or if it’s SF, TE+.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Agree with that, and I think the floor is a decent bit lower based on what I've seen.To me, his ceiling doesn't seem to be that much different than Singletary's before him.
Every team doesn't keep 5-7. I would say the average is 3-5 really.
Rounds 6-7 typically are where the meat of the rookie flyers go. So yes that's where all those guys will go in hope that (and let's not kid ourselves) someone gets hurt or out performs. So yes the question becomes do you keep a guy like cook who has probably a pretty low ceiling unless everyone gets hurt or do you take Charbonet in hopes that Walker gets injured at some point and he dominates. 7pts a week from a guy like cook just isn't going to put you over the top is my thinking right now
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Gotcha, I was just basing it on the info you have on keepers. I guess I don’t see the difference why Cook needs everyone hurt? If Harris gets hurt, Cook’s ADP is going to sky rocket. Plus, unlike Charb, he showed he can be an explosive NFL player. His advanced stats last year like yard per touch, breakaway run rate were among the best in the league. Now he benefited from a small workload but there was evidence that his game translates.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I’m not sure if this is an NFL rule in general or just a Bills rule for media, but when the media is allowed to view practices, they are pretty limited on what they are allowed to say.
But reading between the lines from The Athletic’s Joe Buscaglia’s most recent podcast episode, it really sounds like the Bills intend to roll with Cook as their clear #1. Not a 1a/1b type situation. They legit want him to be the guy. That’s not saying they would ever use him at a 80% clip like a Barkley or Henry, but something he saw at mandatory minicamp lead him to believe that the Bills see Cook as their primary ball carrier with everyone else fighting for a backup spot or role player.
But reading between the lines from The Athletic’s Joe Buscaglia’s most recent podcast episode, it really sounds like the Bills intend to roll with Cook as their clear #1. Not a 1a/1b type situation. They legit want him to be the guy. That’s not saying they would ever use him at a 80% clip like a Barkley or Henry, but something he saw at mandatory minicamp lead him to believe that the Bills see Cook as their primary ball carrier with everyone else fighting for a backup spot or role player.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I would love this so much.
rockaction
Footballguy
This would be most uncool. I drafted Skyy Moore over this guy and instantly (like what felt like ten seconds later) regretted the decision. You don't see starting backs in an offense like this come along every day.
He went the first pick in the 8th round of my expert league...lots of rookies went in front of him. Remarkably I took him after dropping him
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Similar to CEH’s pairing with the Chiefs, the excitement I had for Cook was related to the passing game in an explosive offense. If he can garner consistent targets and mix in some big plays in the running game, he could have some surprise upside. Touchdowns will be hard to come by in this offense (two big bodied backs and Allen around the goal line), but there should be plenty of yards to share.
Plenty of yards to share though is barely startable honestly..
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
You probably end up being right, I still think there is a chance he makes a decent leap though. They do not have a clear slot option right now and you could argue they don’t have a firm number two if Gabe continues to tread water without progress. McDermott typically doesn’t like relying on rookies and first year tight ends typically struggle (Kincaid). If the Bill’s get serious about lightening up Allen’s load on the ground I could see the offense focusing more on the short passing game. This is the reason I think they drafted Cook to begin with, if he has their trust I think there will be a pretty good opportunity for him.
I thought that was the reason they traded for Hines
I just don't see a great path for him unless everything breaks right. I see numbers very similar to Singletary which isn't great for fantasy. That can't mean he won't be an extremely valuable part of their offense on the field however
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Personally I think they traded for Hines last year because Cook was a rookie and they are in win now mode. That is why IF Cook has earned their trust I think he could exceed FF expectations. Not something I am betting on however I will be looking to add him in redraft if the price is right. Guys in his range and situation always have warts, but I can see a scenario where he can succeed and present upside.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They barely used hines. IIRC, he was primarily a kick returner.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
pretty much
think there was like maybe one game he had an impact on the offense?
EDIT: nope, more like none
I love James Cook as an athlete and football player but have a hard time valuing him or Herbert or Ravens RBs
running QBs don't check down they take off
I only mention it because when they did all the talk was 'hines is going to get so many catches in this fast paced offense'. Turned out nothing changed and no rbs got any catches...
dipandglide
Footballguy
CEH, Jacobs, and Rhamondre were my guys last year. Cook, Najee, and Dobbins are my guys this year. Cook is/was the best value of the bunch. I'm seeing more and more noise around him which means people are catching up. He's Kamara-lite. You won't find a cheaper back with fringe RB1 upside.
Edit - add Kenneth Walker to the 2023 my guys list. He's "Chubb-lite". I expect him to outproduce his current ADP
Edit - add Kenneth Walker to the 2023 my guys list. He's "Chubb-lite". I expect him to outproduce his current ADP
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Agreed if things stay this way, but I have a feeling by the time pre-season rolls around he will have moved up draft boards a lot.
Spookytooth
Footballguy
Traded Kamara straight up for him in dynasty
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Good move IMO
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Crazy move by his trade partner. Even if you’re a Cook non-believer why take on an old RB facing a suspension and a return into a crowded backfield?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
This is predicated on Allen doing what the coach staff is imploring him to do and run less but Cook along with Gibbs seem to be poised to jump into the elite tier of pass catching backs this season.
Been heavily targeting them both in ppr leagues
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I like Cook’s skillset, however I am not confident Buffalo will use him in the passing game enough to allow him to make the jump in FF. There have also been constant rumblings all off-season of Buffalo being linked to running backs (draft, FA’s, trades). If they do not add anyone else I will still be cautiously optimistic but we have a ways to go until kickoff.
zamboni
Footballguy
I can see Cook’s PPR value rising if the coaching brass truly intends to limit Allen’s running a bit. I’ll believe it when I see it though because it’s such a weapon.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Just the “Singletary role” had some value and Cook has the upside to be better than and get an even bigger workload than Singletary was/did.
I don’t think a RB1 season is in the cards even if everything broke right, but a solid RB2 season in ppr leagues seems more than doable.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I concur but his TDs could be very limited due to Josh’s GL sneaks & Damien Harris being built more for short yardage pounding. James Cook is more “between the 20’s RB” from physical perspective & his OC could only see that.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yeah I wouldn’t predict big TD numbers - probably 2-4 rushing and 2-4 receiving for about 6 total.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The coaches and front office have been really pushing hard for Josh to stop taking so many physical risk. It's yet to be seen if Josh is willing to do that but I have no doubt everyone around him is asking him to checkdown more.
zamboni
Footballguy
All but his millions of fantasy owners
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