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RB Joe Mixon, HOU (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
Interseptopus
Footballguy
It was tongue in cheek. Sorry you missed it. His post was so over-the-top "as a matter of fact" I decided to throw some right back at him. If people are so sensitive they can't handle a little playful banter then life is going to eat them up alive...
I'm not a person around here who has to be right all the time and calls people out for being incorrect. I'm wrong often enough and can own up to it. Sorry you missed the sarcasm. I'll put in a disclaimer next time
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I haven't seen another take anywhere else even close to this negative.
Not that that means anything. It's just interesting.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
What are your thoughts on Cook? His rap sheet may not be as egregious as Mixon's one time incident, but it is definitely longer...
While I do agree, his off the field issues should be somewhat of a concern to most people, but the fact that it was one incident makes me believe it was a moment of loss of control that hasn't been repeated and I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I think many people believe his reward outweighs the risk. Some people here and in the other thread have said they wouldn't touch him and he's bound to repeat his offense. Sure, it's a possibility. I think the chances are low, but some disagree.
I just think it's interesting that people are quick to declare Mixon such a huge off the field risk but then they are right on board with other players in the NFL who have longer rap sheets than Mixon - even some veterans. That's confusing to me. A player who frequently breaks the law or acts up is at a much higher risk than a player who made one (big) mistake when he was 18 but has been relatively clean since.
Interestingly, @FreeBaGeL, you say that you have Zeke rated pretty high here. But his off the field issues are longer (and much more recent) than Mixon's. You mention your concerns about Zeke, but nowhere did you mention his risk being understated due to the off the field issues:
He exposed a woman's breast in public. Granted she was his friend and they are still fine about it, but is that what an upstanding citizen does? He can be disciplined by the league as a result
He was under investigation over an domestic allegation from an ex-girlfriend (two separate occasions)- so he allegedly hit a woman... There wasn't a video so charges were not brought on him (however that does not mean the league cannot take action)
A friend of his tried to get into a club with a gun with him - what stand up citizen surrounds himself with friends who break the law, especially with handguns? Is that really a recipe for good things? Going to the club with guns?
so Mixon hits a woman, once, years ago when he was 18, and he is such a high risk that the off the field stuff over-shadows everything else.
Zeke can do all of the above over ~the last year and he has high praises from you?
The bottom line is everyone has some degree of risk and the NFL is littered with athletes who make bad decisions, some much worse than others. If Mixon's incident was not caught on video you'd be discarding it like you are likely to do with Zeke's 2x accusations of hitting a woman. It doesn't mean it didn't happen. We have to weigh risk vs reward on these guys, and when players are repeat offenders then we can start increasing that risk. Mixon hasn't done anything that I'm aware of since this incident that would increase his risk to "overshadow everything else." Bit of an over-statement if you ask me.
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I think you're missing my point entirely. I don't have off the field concerns for any of them.What are your thoughts on Cook? His rap sheet may not be as egregious as Mixon's one time incident, but it is definitely longer...
While I do agree, his off the field issues should be somewhat of a concern to most people, but the fact that it was one incident makes me believe it was a moment of loss of control that hasn't been repeated and I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I think many people believe his reward outweighs the risk. Some people here and in the other thread have said they wouldn't touch him and he's bound to repeat his offense. Sure, it's a possibility. I think the chances are low, but some disagree.
I just think it's interesting that people are quick to declare Mixon such a huge off the field risk but then they are right on board with other players in the NFL who have longer rap sheets than Mixon - even some veterans. That's confusing to me. A player who frequently breaks the law or acts up is at a much higher risk than a player who made one (big) mistake when he was 18 but has been relatively clean since.
Interestingly, @FreeBaGeL, you say that you have Zeke rated pretty high here. But his off the field issues are longer (and much more recent) than Mixon's. You mention your concerns about Zeke, but nowhere did you mention his risk being understated due to the off the field issues:
He exposed a woman's breast in public. Granted she was his friend and they are still fine about it, but is that what an upstanding citizen does? He can be disciplined by the league as a result
He was under investigation over an domestic allegation from an ex-girlfriend (two separate occasions)- so he allegedly hit a woman... There wasn't a video so charges were not brought on him (however that does not mean the league cannot take action)
A friend of his tried to get into a club with a gun with him - what stand up citizen surrounds himself with friends who break the law, especially with handguns? Is that really a recipe for good things? Going to the club with guns?
so Mixon hits a woman, once, years ago when he was 18, and he is such a high risk that the off the field stuff over-shadows everything else.
Zeke can do all of the above over ~the last year and he has high praises from you?
The bottom line is everyone has some degree of risk and the NFL is littered with athletes who make bad decisions, some much worse than others. If Mixon's incident was not caught on video you'd be discarding it like you are likely to do with Zeke's 2x accusations of hitting a woman. It doesn't mean it didn't happen. We have to weigh risk vs reward on these guys, and when players are repeat offenders then we can start increasing that risk. Mixon hasn't done anything that I'm aware of since this incident that would increase his risk to "overshadow everything else." Bit of an over-statement if you ask me.
My point is simply that because Mixon's off the field incident was so public people seem to have forgotten to evaluate him as a player. It's almost made his legend as a player grow because when people are looking at negatives they skip straight to the punch instead of nitpicking him as a runner like they do with most top prospects.
He has some deeply concerning flaws as a runner that are mentioned repeatedly by scouts and here we are in page 19 of this thread and I don't think anyone has even brought them before now because everyone is so busy trying to decide of they can forgive him punching a woman or not.
Forget the punch. Can this kid be an elite NFL runner? Despite the narrative, the answer is not "well yea, obviously, but about that punch thing... ".
If Mixon turns out to be a bust it's much more likely that it will be because of poor vision or inability to create at the line or inability to carry the load than it is because he punched another woman. Yet all anyone talks about or even is aware of is the punch.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yes, I completely misread your post. I took it as you think his risk totally outweighs his reward and he's bound to be a failure. My mistake, my apologies.
You are correct, many people don't even give him a second thought because of "the punch." Many NFL teams even didn't even have them on their draft board. Many fantasy players, same thing.
My hope with this thread was to get away from the punch conversation and discuss more about his abilities as a runner. The conversation, as you said, keeps coming back to his punch.
There are a lot of drawbacks to Mixon's talent, but a lot to like as well. I think CIN was a decent place for him to end up, but not the best. As such I've tempered my expectations to some degree, but still expect him to emerge as the best (and most relevant) fantasy back in that offense.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
That's exactly my point.
There are essentially two camps on Mixon.
1) He's a perfect rb, and the off the field thing is of no concern.
2) He's a perfect rb, but the off the field stuff is a big problem.
People seem to have forgotten about option 3, which is that he has some major flaws as a runner and maybe he won't be as good of an actual player as everyone seems to believe.
Well I should clarify a bit and say "fantasy people" have forgotten about option 3 because scouts pretty heavily agree on what his flaws are as a runner. Fantasy people just forgot to read that part. Had he not punched a woman there would be a lot more discussion about those on the field flaws he has within the fantasy community.
Eta: I should note that I don't dislike Mixon as a prospect. I like him, a lot. Unfortunately there are some drawbacks to him as a prospect and it's hard to find any good discussion on it since everyone is so preoccupied with the punch.
If CMC or Fournette had never carried the ball 200 times in a season or never ran against 8 man fronts or had a bunch of scouts saying they lacked vision and ability at the line of scrimmage we would be arguing about it for 50 pages.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
I agree. I think Mixon needs to show that he can hit the hole hard. CIN isn't a team where he's going to have wide open holes to go crazy with. And that's one downfall that I'm aware of; he hits holes slow/likes to dance.
I'm not exactly sure how much he will be used. I anticipate losing all goal line carries to Hill and being the "new Gio."... Gio was not very valuable in that role so who knows how Mixon will be. I think Mixon is more talented than Gio though so I would expect better. Maybe not RB1 material as many here are salivating over. I have a feeling he will be one of those guys always looking to run around the outside and bust it deep.
He seems to be a shifty runner... one stat I found that impressed me was a missed tackle once out of every 3.9 touches. I'm not sure what average would be there, but that seems pretty impressive to me. Although one of the negatives on him is that he can't create for himself.
Vision is a concern and one of his biggest issues it seems. It can be tough for anyone to take a step into the NFL and have great vision; the game speeds up so much for these guys. But, that's an even bigger concern for a guy who had a hard time seeing plays develop in the college game. Being drafted by CIN tempers my expectations, but I am still hoping for him to take a step forward
I think people are hoping he works out and are willing to look over those negatives because he seems like a complete back with huge potential; maybe more so than the other backs in the draft.
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voiceofunreason
Footballguy
it's true but look at a guy like David Johnson. Very, very average as a runner but the receiving ability makes him incredibly valuable, keeps him on the field and makes him a difference maker. Fournette just doesn't offer that upside to be a great receiver plus he plays on the jags. McCaffery went to an awful spot for a cop back so people are searching and maybe hoping too much.
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Catbird
Footballguy
I think the value is that a coach loves to have guy that can pound and catch - and there aren't many that are solid at both - because that forces the defense to choose and allows the QB to pick the play against that choice. If 2 guys like Mixon and Hill are both adequate pounders, or if 2 guys like Gio and Mixon are solid receivers, but Mixon can present the double threat, he has a far greater likelihood of being used. Mixon caught up with and shared pretty equally with solid power back Perine despite his suggested shortcomings in vision and having to escape 'the punch' public pressure. We can't know how he will play out, but IF he can get open and catch as well as pound even nearly as well as mediocre talent Hill, I think he has great situational upside. If he can catch up with the pace of the pro game and isn't vision limited, he could be a top 10 RB. I think its that path and potential that made him a high NFL draft pick, despite the negative publicity cost to drafting him.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'm thinking he could be a decent lotto pick as a RB3 to come in and be a regular flex. Could be a huge pay off... I'm between Mixon as the best RBs out of this group for 2017. Long term I still like Mack and Aaron Jones...
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Interseptopus
Footballguy
He's very shifty. Not saying he's Bell, but Bell's quickness with his feet is so much fun to watch and I see some of that in Mack. He can catch the ball as well. So I feel like he can do a little bit of both. He can break the long one... I forget the stat but I believe a large chunk of his TDs were long scores. What I don't like is he isn't much of a grinder... so he's not the complete package. I really liked him as a 4th-5th round pick this year. It'll be fun to watch how his style of play transitions to the NFL, but it's fun to see him run.
I think had he been on a bigger school he would have went higher.
He's in a great situation in INDY and has really no competition aside from Gore, who is very old and looked worn last year. He's a guy I think a lot look over because he's not one of the top 4, but outside of them I think Williams and Mack have the best potential to make some significant impact fairly quickly.
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BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Interseptopus
Footballguy
To be honest, I haven't looked into Hunt as much as I should have by now. He is next on my list as I am really interested in his impact this year- he's one who can be a real sneaky under the radar play as many others are going for the top 4. I play in redraft/keeper only. In redraft Hunt I like a lot more this year, assuming no injuries to Ware or Gore.
I'd love to do a dynasty but I can't really seem to get anyone I play with to make that kind of a commitment. In dynasty I think I could likely get both of them by taking Mack later possibly... but I would likely pass on Hunt with the intention of looking for Mack later. I think there's good value in waiting and going with a different position. All depends how the draft falls. I just think Mack breaks more second and third level tackles than Hunt.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
To be honest, I haven't looked into Hunt as much as I should have by now. He is next on my list as I am really interested in his impact this year- he's one who can be a real sneaky under the radar play as many others are going for the top 4. I play in redraft/keeper only. In redraft Hunt I like a lot more this year, assuming no injuries to Ware or Gore.
I'd love to do a dynasty but I can't really seem to get anyone I play with to make that kind of a commitment. In dynasty I think I could likely get both of them by taking Mack later possibly... but I would likely pass on Hunt with the intention of looking for Mack later. I think there's good value in waiting and going with a different position. All depends how the draft falls. I just think Mack breaks more second and third level tackles than Hunt.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
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Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Really surprised this thread has been so quiet ...
is it because of that thing he did? If any of us are following the "Post your rookie draft" thread - I've noticed he has made his way into the top 3 pretty consistently.
but it's the Cook, CMC and LF threads that are getting the posts.
is it because of that thing he did? I know you guys are drafting him lol.
Wheres the convo at with this kid?
is it because of that thing he did? If any of us are following the "Post your rookie draft" thread - I've noticed he has made his way into the top 3 pretty consistently.
but it's the Cook, CMC and LF threads that are getting the posts.
is it because of that thing he did? I know you guys are drafting him lol.
Wheres the convo at with this kid?
Chaka
Footballguy
It's okay to say that Joe Mixon viciously punched a girl in the face, shattering bones.
You can say that about him.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The thing about Mixon that derails conversations is that it most of the time is focused on that thing you asked about twice.
Barely anyone wants to talk about his skills and abilities on the football field. So talking about that thing gets tiresome.
There are two camps on this.
A camp that notices there are some flaws in Mixon's game on the field that makes him perhaps not as good as the other 3 highly sought after rookies, then a camp that thinks Mixon's on the field play is flawless and the only thing wrong with him was that thing you asked about.
I am in the first camp although Mixon obviously has a lot of very good traits as a RB.
I am only interested in talking about his abilities as a football player, so not much to talk about with the second camp for me.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
It is ok to say that .. it's been said plenty.
its just curious to me that this thread has no conversation about his actual on field potential this year, that's all.
Is he on your "do it draft list"?
What he did was terrible, but this is fantasy football and plenty of us have drafted him for what he can potentially be on the field.
Chaka
Footballguy
I've never really been a "Do not draft list" guy but if I had to guess Mixon will not end up on my team.
kutta
Footballguy
Rookie_Whisperer
Footballguy
Every Joe Mixon Touch vs. Tampa Bay | Bucs vs. Bengals | Preseason Wk 1 Player Highlights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khb8DzKJWTQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khb8DzKJWTQ
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Vision, Patience, quick feet and burst.
reminds me a lot of Leveon Bell - gonna be fun to own.
reminds me a lot of Leveon Bell - gonna be fun to own.
Koya
Footballguy
Because of his indiscretions in high school? (Not asking judgementally, and what he did was atrocious, but there is the context of many in the NFL have done as bad or worse and most of them have done it at a time where you'd expect more maturity and responsibility than someone not yet in college).
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
IMO, he looks to be the most talented rookie RB. How the hell do you project this guy though? How do he and Hill split early down work? How do he and Gio split passing down work?
I want to bite but his price tag may get a bit out of control by late Aug.
I want to bite but his price tag may get a bit out of control by late Aug.
Weebs210
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Mixon is easily the best rb on the team, so I think it comes down to whether he can Avoid mistakes.
Oh I agree and as an owner of mixon I would love it if he took over as the 3 down guy but from everything the bengals are saying they are planning on using hill some so as long as they are winning I doubt they change it up much. Either way I do see mixon earning the majority of the shared touches as the season goes on but as long as they keep letting hill get in the game mixon is gonna be capped a little
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Doubt it. If Hill keeps stinking it up he's just a bench warmer. As soon as Mixon outplays him it's his job. The real question is Gio and the third down role. Probably won't wrestle that away unless Gio gets hurt again.
WestyTooTall
Footballguy
Agreed on the winning angle.
Marvin Lewis could very well be on the hot seat as a coach who's had historically bad misadventures in the playoffs.
If Mixon can be the gamebreaking type of RB that wins them games and moves the chains he'll command a large share of the snaps.
The question is whether he can limit mental errors and pass block reliably on third down.
I think that after flip flopping from mccaffery tomixon to fournette to cook back to fournette back to mccaffery I've now landed back on mixon as my preferred 1.1 pick in my upcoming rookie draft.
this kids talent is freaking undeniable. I really do see the Levon bell comparisons. It's not hyperbole. And I like that his game isn't all about pounding the defense and plowing over guys. He's got that, but he also has finesse and as much agility as cook for evading tacklers.
Hes money in the passing game. And he's only 20 years old and has less wear and tear on him than the other backs in his class. I think he is the most complete Rb in this rookie class.
My only worry at this point is that the NFL investigates him and suspends him a-la zeke Elliot. Or that he pulls any other knucklehead moves that get him banned from the NFL.
this kids talent is freaking undeniable. I really do see the Levon bell comparisons. It's not hyperbole. And I like that his game isn't all about pounding the defense and plowing over guys. He's got that, but he also has finesse and as much agility as cook for evading tacklers.
Hes money in the passing game. And he's only 20 years old and has less wear and tear on him than the other backs in his class. I think he is the most complete Rb in this rookie class.
My only worry at this point is that the NFL investigates him and suspends him a-la zeke Elliot. Or that he pulls any other knucklehead moves that get him banned from the NFL.
His infraction happened while in college and he was suspended by Oklahoma. That said, he definitely has a thin margin of error
