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RB Jonathan Taylor, IND (3 Viewers)

Started and got some touches on 1st drive .

2nd drive all Wilkins.

3rd drive all Hines.

Looks like the dreaded 3 headed monster.

 
Biabreakable said:
The Colts like to keep us guessing.

Sounds like no one believes in Taylor right now so maybe they use him a lot now just to surprise us.

Put your socks on backwards or something and hope?
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Ended up moving him before the game.  Couldn't take it anymore.  Looks good tonight but again not enough volume.

 
Second week in  row where he looks like the 3rd down back. You would think losing would force you to give him more carries in hopes he gets in a rhythm. 

Absolutely frustrating. 

 
I'll be dropping him. Hines starting the 2nd half. Too crazy to predict and I can't afford to hold out for the chance. 

 
Biabreakable said:
While Thielen has had a couple quiet weeks after the bye and is two years older than Allen is the way I see this deal is you basically gave up Taylor for free.
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Given his stellar 7-12-0, 2-25-0 performance so far tonight, dude is bordering on droppable anyway.

 
I don't have a dog in this fight but from what I have seen, Hines is the only RB who has really shown much pop at times. Too early to write off JT but between Wisconsin showcasing him as part of their annual RB stud and him looking awesome in the Underwear Olympics I think his value may have out kicked it's coverage

 
Taylor didn't look great when he slammed into his LG on his last goal line attempt. Yikes. I feel like I have to hold in dynasty. It's not like I'm beating offers off with a stick or something. 

 
Jonathan Taylor rushed seven times for 12 yards in the Colts' Week 10 win over the Titans.

Taylor seems to be setting new lows weekly at this point. After fumble-sixing against the Ravens last week, his seven carries were third on the Colts in a game they won convincingly by 17 points, and his 12 yards were a new season worst. Taylor was stuffed on a third-and-goal from the one-yard line in this one. He just runs too high at times, and that was particularly the case on that specific carry. Jordan Wilkins (8-28) wasn't much better in this one, but both were behind Nyheim Hines, who totaled 115 yards and recorded a season-best 12-70-1 rushing line. Taylor looks like the third man in this backfield committee. Frustrating as ever, Taylor is approaching drop status in 10- and 12-team leagues ahead of a Week 11 date with the Packers.

- Rotoworld
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Wow my first instincts on this guy were right but I fell hard for the hype. Glad it's only redraft and not dynasty. Woof is he bad. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Wow my first instincts on this guy were right but I fell hard for the hype. Glad it's only redraft and not dynasty. Woof is he bad. 
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Yes those that took him high in Dyno have to be concerned. You even wonder if Indy will try to resign Mack to a friendly deal coming off injury to further muddy the future. Mack looked great for the few moments he was on the field this year.

 
Sam Quentin said:
His poor production has turned him into bench fodder 
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His poor production is at least in part due to his poor usage.

Coming into the game he had a 3.9 ypc and 8.9 ypr compared to Hines at 3.2 and 7.9. Wilkins was at 3.7 and 9 (only 5 receptions). He's caught 22 out of his 23 targets, which is pretty amazing, especially considering that was a question mark coming into the year. IMO Wilkins shouldn't be getting any meaningful work and Hines should see 3-5 targets and 3-5 carries per game. That's about what he's averaging but it varies a ton game to game.

This "hot hand" approach after a couple of touches is silly and clearly isn't working for their running game.

 
Taylor's flaws are noticeable: runs too high at times, not great vision when picking a hole and even if he does pick the right one he's among the worst in the league at not only evading tackles, but also breaking them. That's a bad combo to have for a RB regardless of usage.

 
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I was convinced he would be a stud behind that OL.....at least his makes me feel a little better for passing on him for CEH who looks as bad....the real winners are the teams that went WR in rookie drafts....

 
Sitting here these last couple weeks thinking about trying to move him, even though I really don't feel like putting work into that right now. I'd rather hold and see what happens in the offseason. Maybe he'll get better. I've got him benched everywhere and was starting to lean towards moving him, and then I wake up to a pretty reasonable offer in my box. Edmonds and Mims for Taylor straight. I like it don't love it. Then I look back at Taylor and think, I have to take this. But, FFPC and this is a 1 for 2. Roster spots are at a premium. Not sure those two move the needle enough for me.

I wonder if there are other owners that would also like to buy low on Taylor, in their minds. Ok I'm gonna put him on the block. See what happens. Usually nothing.

 
There's a difference between being a good runner and being a good running back. People that said he took advantage of Wisconsin's typical manhandling of Big 10 talent along the line were correct. When there's a lane, a good runner can flourish - which the track runner Taylor did. 

But now that he needs to be a running back - exhibit patience, set up blocks, break a tackle - he can't do it. 

The only runner that I've seen succeed is Adrian Peterson. He was actually not a good running back (by the above definition). But he was just such an amazing athlete it didn't matter. Jonathan Taylor is not Adrian Peterson. 

 
Sitting here these last couple weeks thinking about trying to move him, even though I really don't feel like putting work into that right now. I'd rather hold and see what happens in the offseason. Maybe he'll get better. I've got him benched everywhere and was starting to lean towards moving him, and then I wake up to a pretty reasonable offer in my box. Edmonds and Mims for Taylor straight. I like it don't love it. Then I look back at Taylor and think, I have to take this. But, FFPC and this is a 1 for 2. Roster spots are at a premium. Not sure those two move the needle enough for me.

I wonder if there are other owners that would also like to buy low on Taylor, in their minds. Ok I'm gonna put him on the block. See what happens. Usually nothing.

 
barackdhouse said:
Sitting here these last couple weeks thinking about trying to move him, even though I really don't feel like putting work into that right now. I'd rather hold and see what happens in the offseason. Maybe he'll get better. I've got him benched everywhere and was starting to lean towards moving him, and then I wake up to a pretty reasonable offer in my box. Edmonds and Mims for Taylor straight. I like it don't love it. Then I look back at Taylor and think, I have to take this. But, FFPC and this is a 1 for 2. Roster spots are at a premium. Not sure those two move the needle enough for me.

I wonder if there are other owners that would also like to buy low on Taylor, in their minds. Ok I'm gonna put him on the block. See what happens. Usually nothing.
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I don’t see Taylor succeeding.  That o line is pushing people around and is the main reason has had any success.  He looks like the worst of the 3 backs in the committee and the other two backs are average.  On most other teams, Taylor would not be doing anything.  

 
The Frankman said:
Taylor's flaws are noticeable: runs too high at times, not great vision when picking a hole and even if he does pick the right one he's among the worst in the league at not only evading tackles, but also breaking them. That's a bad combo to have for a RB regardless of usage.
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He certainly has flaws, but how is he supposed to improve on them without reps? Even if they want to go with the ridiculous "hot hand after 3 touches" approach, at least let him get the meaningless carries at the end of the game like last night, see how it goes.

Andy Dufresne said:
There's a difference between being a good runner and being a good running back. People that said he took advantage of Wisconsin's typical manhandling of Big 10 talent along the line were correct. When there's a lane, a good runner can flourish - which the track runner Taylor did. 

But now that he needs to be a running back - exhibit patience, set up blocks, break a tackle - he can't do it. 

The only runner that I've seen succeed is Adrian Peterson. He was actually not a good running back (by the above definition). But he was just such an amazing athlete it didn't matter. Jonathan Taylor is not Adrian Peterson. 
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See above. Again, people seem to forget that he had almost no training camp/pre-season, so he's been thrown into the NFL fire unprepared. Way too soon to say "he can't" do those things, and while he may not be AP, he's a pretty amazing athlete himself.

 
humpback said:
Nah, Montgomery is very limited as an athlete, not all that surprising that he isn't doing so well in the NFL.

I think covid completely disrupting training camp and the preseason had a pretty big impact on the rookies this year. Taylor is a great athlete, very smart, and a hard worker- I think he'll figure it out. Not as confident in his coaching staff unfortunately.
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This makes no sense to me.  I mean logically I get it, but we have the actual numbers and they would say the complete opposite.

Burrow/Herbert are putting up 2 of the best 5 rookie QB seasons of all time.  We have like 6 WRs that will probably end up with top 25 all-time rookie WR seasons.  And these are positions that are much more dependent on training camp and preseason than running back.

That's not even to mention  that other running backs, like James Robinson and Antonio Gibson, are doing just fine.

I'm not writing Taylor off, but blaming it on the lack of offseason during a year that will likely go down collectively as one of the best performing rookie classes in NFL history, is major excuse making imo.

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
There's a difference between being a good runner and being a good running back. People that said he took advantage of Wisconsin's typical manhandling of Big 10 talent along the line were correct. When there's a lane, a good runner can flourish - which the track runner Taylor did. 

But now that he needs to be a running back - exhibit patience, set up blocks, break a tackle - he can't do it. 

The only runner that I've seen succeed is Adrian Peterson. He was actually not a good running back (by the above definition). But he was just such an amazing athlete it didn't matter. Jonathan Taylor is not Adrian Peterson. 
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I know this isn’t the best place to have this conversation, but I strongly disagree on AP. To my eye, he had all of those positive traits in spades.

 
barackdhouse said:
Sitting here these last couple weeks thinking about trying to move him, even though I really don't feel like putting work into that right now. I'd rather hold and see what happens in the offseason. Maybe he'll get better. I've got him benched everywhere and was starting to lean towards moving him, and then I wake up to a pretty reasonable offer in my box. Edmonds and Mims for Taylor straight. I like it don't love it. Then I look back at Taylor and think, I have to take this. But, FFPC and this is a 1 for 2. Roster spots are at a premium. Not sure those two move the needle enough for me.

I wonder if there are other owners that would also like to buy low on Taylor, in their minds. Ok I'm gonna put him on the block. See what happens. Usually nothing.
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I think you can get a better offer than that for him.  I think people that don't own him anywhere and haven't watched him closely will still be looking to buy low.  I would shop him around or at least throw him on the trade block before taking that offer.

He's still a RB with upside and that has value in FFPC.  Guys have bounced back from dismal rookie years before.

 
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FreeBaGeL said:
I think you can get a better offer than that for him.  I think people that don't own him anywhere and haven't watched him closely will still be looking to buy low.  I would shop him around or at least throw him on the trade block before taking that offer.

He's still a RB with upside and that has value in FFPC.  Guys have bounced back from dismal rookie years before.
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Yea just needed a little coffee first. He is on the block and now I have 4 offers to parse through. My guess is he will be sold by lunch.

 
humpback said:
He certainly has flaws, but how is he supposed to improve on them without reps? Even if they want to go with the ridiculous "hot hand after 3 touches" approach, at least let him get the meaningless carries at the end of the game like last night, see how it goes.

See above. Again, people seem to forget that he had almost no training camp/pre-season, so he's been thrown into the NFL fire unprepared. Way too soon to say "he can't" do those things, and while he may not be AP, he's a pretty amazing athlete himself.
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Like @FreeBaGeL said, there are plenty of rookies who are doing just fine without having a camp. I don't think that excuse holds any water.

Concept Coop said:
I know this isn’t the best place to have this conversation, but I strongly disagree on AP. To my eye, he had all of those positive traits in spades.
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As a Vikings fan, I spent the better part of a decade watching AP slam into the backs of his blockers. He has ZERO patience.

 
I think there's definitely a bit of homerism/"my guy is amazing!" going on here. Even with limited reps you can tell how a player is doing with the eye test and advanced metrics. I can list 5 articles discussing what has been talked about here ad naseum and they all point to the same thing: right now, Jordan Wilkins and Nyheim Hines are fundamentally better at being an NFL RB than Jonathan Taylor. They break more tackles. They make more people miss. They are consistently more decisive in their runs. They show better vision.

Again, I'm not saying that's the case forever. But Colts aren't going to wait for Taylor with a 35+ year old QB, they're trying to win now and will play whomever gives them the best chance to win on a game-by-game basis.

 
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FreeBaGeL said:
This makes no sense to me.  I mean logically I get it, but we have the actual numbers and they would say the complete opposite.

Burrow/Herbert are putting up 2 of the best 5 rookie QB seasons of all time.  We have like 6 WRs that will probably end up with top 25 all-time rookie WR seasons.  And these are positions that are much more dependent on training camp and preseason than running back.

That's not even to mention  that other running backs, like James Robinson and Antonio Gibson, are doing just fine.

I'm not writing Taylor off, but blaming it on the lack of offseason during a year that will likely go down collectively as one of the best performing rookie classes in NFL history, is major excuse making imo.
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I disagree that the actual numbers would say the complete opposite. The expectation was that this was a phenomenal draft class, there were 4 QBs, 6 WRs, and 1 RB taken in the 1st round and another 1 QB, 7 WRs, and 5 RBs taken in the 2nd. How many of them are doing better than expectations vs. worse? Sure, Robinson and Gibson are doing just fine, but their O-lines are ranked much higher at run blocking as well. Overall I don't think the rookie class has been crushing expectations so far this year, but opinions may vary.

Not blaming it on the lack of offseason, just saying it may be a factor, especially for someone who needed to adjust more to the NFL game. It takes live reps to work on things, and he hasn't had a ton of them so far.

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
As a Vikings fan, I spent the better part of a decade watching AP slam into the backs of his blockers. He has ZERO patience.
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The "patience" debate is arguable, but his vision, decisiveness, explosiveness, and tackle breaking ability were all plus traits to the point where him utilizing more patience probably didn't play as well to those strengths.  Anyways, it's a moot point because Peterson was a top 5 RB of all time (IMO) so it's mostly meaningless to debate a perceived negative trait of his  compared to a rookie RB that's completely flopped thus far.

 
any chance he is playing with an undisclosed injury? ..... hasp or toe - ribs ?????

also, Hines has to be the 50/25/25 head of the 3 head monster moving forward, no ????

 
SayWhat? said:
The "patience" debate is arguable, but his vision, decisiveness, explosiveness, and tackle breaking ability were all plus traits to the point where him utilizing more patience probably didn't play as well to those strengths.  Anyways, it's a moot point because Peterson was a top 5 RB of all time (IMO) so it's mostly meaningless to debate a perceived negative trait of his  compared to a rookie RB that's completely flopped thus far.
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Yeah pretty much. Say, how did Peterson do in his rookie year? Alright well I have no more shares of JT so I guess I'll just leave quietly now.

 
I did say that Peterson was able to overcome his shortcomings. With the point being his other talents were enough to do so whereas Taylor does not look similarly able.

 
leave a whisper said:
Hines has to be the 50/25/25 head of the 3 head monster moving forward, no ????
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Logically?   Yes.   Do we know for sure?   No.   As I stated earlier, this committee should be 65 Hines and 35 Wilkins.  This is coming from a Taylor owner until next weeks waivers.  I’m not picking up Hines either for the record.  

 
DocHolliday said:
I don’t see Taylor succeeding.  That o line is pushing people around and is the main reason has had any success.  He looks like the worst of the 3 backs in the committee and the other two backs are average.  On most other teams, Taylor would not be doing anything.  
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Is this schtick? That O-line has been pushed around, they are ranked as one of the worst in the NFL in run blocking so far.

DocHolliday said:
Logically?   Yes.   Do we know for sure?   No.   As I stated earlier, this committee should be 65 Hines and 35 Wilkins.  This is coming from a Taylor owner until next weeks waivers.  I’m not picking up Hines either for the record.  
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Okay, has to be schtick. He's been so awful that he doesn't deserve any touches behind the great Hines and Wilkins.  :lmao:

 
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