JohnnyU
Footballguy
Why have rookie deals then? If they don’t like them, then have the players union negotiate something different. Derrick Henry manned up and honored his rookie deal and so do most others.
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RB Jonathan Taylor, IND (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I got a dollar that says they address in 2030 when the current cba expires. Ha ha. A guideline for rookies who exceed contracts. Wouldn't be that hard. A rookie hits a certain number and realistic financial escalators kick in.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Yeah, I’m guessing quiet quitting is the play for this thread.
LawFitz
Footballguy
The testing ground will be once he suffers the inevitable RB bump or bruise. How's it looking so far on that front?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Has it ever occurred to you that he is hurt?
LawFitz
Footballguy
Absolutely. Has it occurred to you that if he had a new contract right now, he might not be on PUP? Everyone gets hurt in this game. Regularly. It's how they react that becomes the operative.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
No, he would still be on the PUP if he’s hurt.
LawFitz
Footballguy
How many players in your league have a 'Q' next to their name right now? Are they all on PUP?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Jesus Christ man give the quiet quitting a rest. Most players have integrity. I think most have a Q because they aren’t hurt enough to be on PUP.
LawFitz
Footballguy
No need for this. Bottom line, Quiet Quitting is a thing even if you cannot fathom it. Hopefully for your Colts' case it won't be for Jon Taylor. Good luck.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Are you a quiet quitter at your job? You seem to be an expert on the subject.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Ah, and here comes the personal attack. Feel better?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
No personal attack, just asking since you’re so enamored with quiet quitting. I think you’re making too much out of the subject, especially for NFL players.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
there’s four weeks to try and smooth things over a bit (maybe a small $ bump) or trade him away (although four less games gives the Colts even less value in return). I do believe ultimately he comes back and plays hard - but anyone that rosters him should be prepared for the downside as well.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Sure. Whatever. Carry on. I've said what I wanted to say. You don't want to hear it. Cool. But let's not act like you weren't trying to attack my integrity. You said exactly as much one post prior.
All good, though. We'll just have to see now how Jon Taylor treats the Colts this season and resume this discussion from there.
eighsse2
Footballguy
Of course it's a thing. It's a completely pathetic thing, but yes it's a thing.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I’ll quiet quit the subject I do find it humorous however. I don’t see it as beneficial to anyone’s career. Attack your integrity? You seem fine with attacking Taylor’s.
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LawFitz
Footballguy
Agreed, even with the playing hard part when on the field. Where I see the quiet quitting coming is when the knick-knack injuries come, as we well know they will for every starting RB this season. Honestly worried about it for Jacobs and Saquan as well, though for them I think it would be less spiteful and more due to actual (non-major) injury, rather than tiny bumps.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It worked in Office Space
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I loved that movie. I’m going to have to ask you to work this weekend to finish the TPS reports.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
TPS reports make be wanna back up in that a## with the resurec-shunnn
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Oh, and no chance Taylor is quiet quitting, unless he wants his career to be over.
Also, he didn't PUP himself.
Also, he didn't PUP himself.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
One of my fantasy teams is named TPS Reports.
Hugsy_Malone
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm gonna need you to come in on Sunday. . .
barackdhouse
Footballguy
That's how I feel about it. And since he hasn't come out angry since the PUP news (even if his agent is smart enough to tell him to shut up), I think he is actually legitimately banged up. And that reality colored any possible negotiations that occurred (or that will). And I find it hard to believe that these GMs would be able to pull the wool over each other's eyes when it comes to this kind of thing. The potential deal is too big to mess around with murky injury statuses. Ballard/Irsay might be good at bullshitting though, IDK. It's also possible they're not and nobody really believed them (because maybe they are the laughing stock among other front offices) and that's why no mutually agreeable offer was ever close.
But I think the occum's razor take here is that he isn't quite ready to play physically. If the Colts were being disingenuous about this, I think the Taylor camp would be publicly livid, regardless of whether they really had a leg to stand on or not.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Sooooo many people don't seem to get this.
Chaka
Footballguy
I don't think it can be properly framed as "manning up", it truly marginalized the significant risk players take every time they take the field.
It's really a recognition of being locked into a bad situation and not having many options.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yeah. "Manning up" was when the game didn't pay more than a regular job.
Fine like between being tough or being stupid.
Chaka
Footballguy
I prefer burning the whole thing down and make it an unregulated free market. Something along the lines of Squid Games.
But a pool of money is good too.
Chaka
Footballguy
You're selling me short, I can be tough and stupid.
Chaka
Footballguy
I don't see JT doing that. He's a smart guy but I don't think he'd go full T.O.. I don't think he's wired that way.
T.O. was, very loudly, quiet quitting long before it was cool. It actually worked out for him. Like really, really well.
Chaka
Footballguy
Don't do that. LawFitz is a good dude.
Chaka
Footballguy
JohnnyU is a good dude. You boys are getting wires crossed.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
So is Jonathan Taylor most likely
Chaka
Footballguy
I think this would go really far with JT. It seems like such a simple and obvious solution.
Penguin
Footballguy
But, you know.... Irsay
dschuler
Footballguy
The Steelers offer was 5 years 70 million. Additionally, he sat out a year in which he would have gotten paid 14 million. So I said at least 20, it’s actually closer to 40 million and could be closer to 50+
Insein
Footballguy
What I don't get is, Colts have the cap space and are growing. It wouldn't hurt them to make a reasonable offer.
Chaka
Footballguy
It was $27 million guaranteed over the first 2 years (according to @menobrown , I'm not going to do the research but I trust meno) The funny money years that follow have too many "if"s associated with them to simply accept a $70 million valuation. And that contract would have rendered the $14 million franchise tag irrelevant.
In the NFL the only thing that matters in contracts is the guaranteed money. There is no world in which $70 million, or $40, was ever in the cards.
Chaka
Footballguy
Totally agree. It doesn't make sense.
dschuler
Footballguy
You also aren’t factoring in him sitting out a season and getting paid $0 when he would have gotten $14mil
Chaka
Footballguy
I think we may be confused with our posts here.
I am factoring that in. If he signed the Steelers offer you mentioned in 2018 it would have been in lieu of the tag. He wouldn't have received an additional $14 mil from the tag.
Are you suggesting he would have received the tag money on top of any contract he signed or am I not reading you correctly?
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
Derrick Henry didn’t “man up”, he was mostly on the bench or terrible for the first 2 3/4’s seasons of his career. He didn’t come close to outperforming his rookie deal after three years.
I think he kind of did though.
Chaka
Footballguy
Yeah. This is a real unknown. I personally don't think he is hurting so bad as to be on the PUP. But that opinion is based on no objective reality.
His ankle could half broken for all I know.
It does to me.
If you remove Taylor's emotions out of the equation, obviously easier said then done, it makes total sense and it's really hard for me to argue against that rationale.
The major key is they just don't have to do anything. Again, see the disclaimer above regarding Taylor's emotions. I'll repeat again, they just don't have to do a single thing. They can let the season play out and then decide with the tag or extension. It's really not hard to keep a RB in this market if you want to so why take the risk?
I get Taylor's side as well. That's another topic.
You are correct, we don't know. Anything we are saying is speculation. What I'm saying sure is.
That being said I think he's fine. Irsay said months ago he was healed up.
Ballard's phrasing about his ankle was interesting to me becuase he said he was not going to put a player on the field who is complaining of an ankle. Again I"m speculation but that to me sounds like the medical staff does not see anything, it's just Taylor saying he is having pain.
Maybe he does but...
Taylor's an intelligent guy. As such I want to give him the benefit of the doubt he's smart enough to not expect someone to trade for him and offer him a fat extension if his ankle is not right. It would IMO take someone really delusional to have an ankle not right 8-9 months after surgery at a fairly devalued position coming off a bad injury plagued season to have those expectation and I don't think Taylor is that guy.
Do I think if he had got traded and was good with his contract or extension he'd be playing week one? I 100% feel that way, but again you are right and I don't really know.
Chaka
Footballguy
Sure but you can't remove JTs emotions. It's just a thought exercise without that reality.
Employee satisfaction = employee retention.
It's not bad business to give a high performing employee a raise if 1) your business is profitable and you can afford it 2) you believe the employee has earned it 3) it will help them continue to excel.
Irsay can say it's all about business but his business is printing money and he can make his product better on the field if his best player is not worried about his long term future. In Irsay's situation this feels much more like spite than good business.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Well I know what you mean and I agree. You're talking in terms of the consequences of his actions. I'm saying only the GM gets to actually put someone on PUP. In the literal sense. And I do think the differentiation is getting lost out here. Why isn't the Taylor camp livid and public right now if he is healthy and ready to play?
