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RB Leonard Fournette, FA (2 Viewers)

Rookie_Whisperer said:
Point taken but it also matters what you do with it after the catch that gets your number called again on those plays.  I don't know a single person who thinks Fournette is as good in the pass game as McCaffrey. Total catches aren't what I'm referring to here, and I wouldn't call Lamar Miller reliable in the passing game, at least not immediately. Melvin Gordon either and it's not like they really accel when their number is called on those plays. They might catch their share now but don't really do much with it when given the chance.  Charles, Rice, Freeman, all had to be good in the pass/screen game because they were not going to make a living running between the tackles in the NFL so they were coached up and had a year to sit back and watch/learn. Hate to break it to you though, nearly every scout thinks he has a ton of work to do in the passing game and not every player gets tagged with that.
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Well OK, what is your definition of reliable?  Is it a 30-50 catch guy who can handle swing passes and screens and check-downs as you seemed to be implying, or is it an elite pass catcher lining up as a WR and running a nearly full route tree a la Reggie Bush and Marshall Faulk?

If it's the former then yeah, no problem, there are zillions of examples, see the list agove.  If it's the latter then not so many (though even in that case there are some, like Rice and Foster), but I don't think many people think that kind of skillset is necessary for Fournette to be an elite fantasy player.  A solid 30-50 catches per year should be plenty for him in PPR if he's as good a runner as we all think.

I have no idea what you're talking about with Charles, Rice, and Freeman not running between the tackles.  Especially Rice and Freeman.  Rice in particular was a between the tackles pounder since high school.  Besides that, it's a bit of a stretch of a point anyway.  Obviously no two people are ever exactly alike.  There will always be "well he's a little bit different because...".  Again, in that case then no, there are no prior examples.  Of anything.  Ever.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Jordan Hoard caught almost 50 passes as a rookie, don't think he caught many in college
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Only 11 receptions for Indiana.13 more in the previous two seasons with UAB. Not much volume although he did have good yards per reception numbers. I compared Howard against Coleman who was their RB the previous two seasons and they threw the ball to Tevin Coleman twice as much as they did Howard. So signs pointed towards him not being used much as a receiver.

Nope. Good receiver too.

 
I seriously doubt that Jax used the 4th pick on fournette if they didn't plan on using him on every down. He might even kick punts...

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
No.
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Time will tell, Fournette doesn't have a lot of measurables that I've found but based on tape he has worse vision and feet.  Not trolling at all just giving my opinion.  

 
Certainly the Jags want him to start but what in Tom Coughlins history suggests to you that they wouldn't play the best player if it came down to it or if Fournette is late/missing meetings or in general showing a lack of maturity? The blurb was non-news news. I just don't believe anyone in the new regime will be gifted a job though.

 
Bojang0301 said:
Certainly the Jags want him to start but what in Tom Coughlins history suggests to you that they wouldn't play the best player if it came down to it or if Fournette is late/missing meetings or in general showing a lack of maturity? The blurb was non-news news. I just don't believe anyone in the new regime will be gifted a job though.
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When you are a RB that gets drafted #4 overall, you are the starter.

Sure, he could fail a drug test or get eaten by a grizzly bear, but otherwise he'll be the starter week 1.

 
Bojang0301 said:
Certainly the Jags want him to start but what in Tom Coughlins history suggests to you that they wouldn't play the best player if it came down to it or if Fournette is late/missing meetings or in general showing a lack of maturity? The blurb was non-news news. I just don't believe anyone in the new regime will be gifted a job though.
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Andre Williams...

 
I think it's a mistake look at Tom Coughlin's coaching history and tendencies as a reference point for the 2017 Jaguars. Coughlin is not the HC or any coach for that matter. He's in the front office. He's making personnel decisions, not coaching or scheme decisions. 

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I think it's a mistake look at Tom Coughlin's coaching history and tendencies as a reference point for the 2017 Jaguars. Coughlin is not the HC or any coach for that matter. He's in the front office. He's making personnel decisions, not coaching or scheme decisions. 
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Correct, this is a Marrone/Hackett offense.

Speaking of Marrone, I wanted to see how often he uses his RB's in the passing game so I checked his history as OC of Saints and HC of Bills. Impressive.

The Saints under Payton have always used RB's frequently in passing game and that was the Bush era so I figured that it would be heavy. I did a search using RB targets by team for those 3 years and out of 96 possible places the Saints had 3 of the top 4 finishes for targets to RB's during his 3 year term.

I did a similar search using for his two year Buffalo run but just did it was total over that 2 year period and Bills were 8th.

I do believe Yeldon will be COP/3rd down back but I also believe Fournette is an underrated receiver and will be much more of a factor in the passing game than people anticipate.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I think it's a mistake look at Tom Coughlin's coaching history and tendencies as a reference point for the 2017 Jaguars. Coughlin is not the HC or any coach for that matter. He's in the front office. He's making personnel decisions, not coaching or scheme decisions. 
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Says who? He could be directing the coaching staff and making scheme decisions.  It's a mistake to completely discount Marrone, but it's probably an equal mistake to discount Coughlin. He seems to have a firm grasp over the team.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I think it's a mistake look at Tom Coughlin's coaching history and tendencies as a reference point for the 2017 Jaguars. Coughlin is not the HC or any coach for that matter. He's in the front office. He's making personnel decisions, not coaching or scheme decisions. 
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I think the main utility of looking at coaching history is to help figure out the run to pass ratio and total play tendencies. Some coaches show a tendency to throw the ball more than others, some run higher tempo offenses, while others try to control the clock more.

It could also be useful for looking at player profiles that coaches may prefer over others, and the coaches tendency to use RBBC or not.

These are some things I will use for team projections, but the team projections are still going to be based more on what the team and their personnel have done with that team over the last 3 seasons, more than anything else. The exception to this would be for a new coach, I might lean on the history a bit more if there is lack of other data.

Doug Marone

2014 BUF 1020 plays 579 pass attempts 402 rushing attempts
2015 JAX 1012 plays 607 pass attempts 354 rushing attempts
2016 JAX 1052 plays 626 pass attempts 392 rushing attempts

3 year average 1028 plays 604 pass attempts 383 rushing attempts

2014 JAX  980 plays 557 pass attempts 360 rushing attempts
2015 JAX 1012 plays 607 pass attempts 354 rushing attempts
2016 JAX 1052 plays 626 pass attempts 392 rushing attempts

3 year average 1015 plays 596 pass attempts 383 rushing attempts 367 rushing attempts

If you wanted to, you could combine these two sets of totals and average them. He has been with the Jaguars ina OC and assistant HC capacity for the last two seasons though, so I don't see much reason for things to change. 

Doug Marone has shown some tendencies to for a more up tempo run heavy offense with the Bills in 2013. 1116 total plays 522 pass attempts 546 rushing attempts. This was done with Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller each getting over 200 rushing attempts and EJ Manuel/Lewis running the ball about 80 times as QBs.

I don't think Tom Coughlin will be for increasing the speed of the offensive plays, so I would expect the Jaguars to be more conservative with the clock to try to help their defense. I also would expect them to try to run the ball more than they have the last 3 seasons. With Fournette, Ivory, Teldon I think they have the players to accomplish that. Marone has a history of leaning on the run (when he can) that should fit well with Coughlin, so I would expect them to be philosophically aligned in regards to trying to be more balanced between the run and pass. More rushing attempts likely leads to fewer total plays.

So taking it all in I would guess at 980 total plays 560 pass attempts 420 rushing attempts for the Jaguars in 2017

 
steelers1080 said:
Says who? He could be directing the coaching staff and making scheme decisions.  It's a mistake to completely discount Marrone, but it's probably an equal mistake to discount Coughlin. He seems to have a firm grasp over the team.
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:shrug:

Ok.  I don't disagree with that.

 
wildabeast49 said:
The point being that Tom Coughlin forced him regardless of his failures, in direct opposition to the previous statement
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Not really, Rashad Jennings started 9 of 11 healthy games that year.

Before I lay this out, Doug Marrone is coaching this team:

Rookie RB starts/carries under Coughlin: 

David Wilson 2 gs, 71 car

Andre Williams 7gs, 217 car

Fred Taylor 12 gs, 264 car

James Stewart 8 gs, 137 car

Brandon Jacobs 0 gs, 38 car

Ahmed Bradshaw 0 gs, 23 car

My point isn't to say that Fournette is coming in to ride some pine, it's that I hope he has a high level of maturity and that his talent level is as high as we all think it is. If it is not I don't think he will be given the leanancy other teams may give him under the same conditions. They drafted him to start and I believe that's what he'll do but I also believe Marrone, unlike most, when he says they'll enter camp with an open competition.

 
And honestly, looking back on it, you can see how great Tom Coughlin and his staff have been at developing players. Specifically running backs.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jaguars first-round RB Leonard Fournette rarely took carries out of the shotgun formation at LSU.
This was an observation made by Ryan O'Halloran of the Florida Times Union after watching film of Fournette against Wisconsin and Ole Miss last year. O'Halloran also noticed that Fournette ran behind a fullback on most of his rushing attempts. The Jaguars did not employ a fullback last year but Tommy Bohanon and Marquez Williams were brought in to fill that role this offseason. Jaguars OC Nathaniel Hackett called for designed runs out of the shotgun on a fairly regular basis last year, so that's an adjustment Fournette will have to make as he transitions from LSU to the pros.

 
 
Source: Florida Times Union 
May 21 - 11:48 AM
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Jaguars coach Doug Marrone said he's been pleased with first-round RB Leonard Fournette's pass-catching at OTAs.

Fournette wasn't asked to catch many passes at LSU (41 catches for 526 yards in three seasons) but he seemed comfortable as a receiver at the Combine and his Pro Day and has kept up the good work at OTAs. Beat reporter Ryan O'Halloran of the Florida Times-Union only saw Fournette drop one pass during Friday's practice. If Fournette continues to progress as a pass-catcher, he should develop into an every-down back.

 
 
Source: Hays Carlyon on Twitter 
May 26 - 1:42 PM
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Where do we sit now with fournette?   Training camp started yesterday and already they are beaming about his pass catching ability.  I think yesterday he turned a bortles screen pass into a td in practice.  

I have heard people saying he's only a 2 down plodder comparable to lacy.   I couldn't disagree more. 

Ill admit I am struggling though bw him, cook, and mixon at 1.1 in my upcoming rookie draft 

 
In a June interview with Jaguars.com, coach Doug Marrone made it clear the team will play run-first football in 2017.

Per Jags.com's John Oehser, Marrone "wasn't joking about this, and he wasn't smiling" when he spoke. "Zero," Marrone replied when asked how many times he wants Blake Bortles to attempt a pass each game. "I’d like to run the ball every play. I want to go back to the old way. I want to change the game." It's the same style of football Dallas and Tennessee have successfully implemented over the past few years. Leonard Fournette will be the centerpiece of the Jaguars' offense, and the weekly game plan will be to hide Bortles.

Source: jaguars.com 

Jul 28 - 11:58 AM
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rickyg said:
Where do we sit now with fournette?   Training camp started yesterday and already they are beaming about his pass catching ability.  I think yesterday he turned a bortles screen pass into a td in practice.  

I have heard people saying he's only a 2 down plodder comparable to lacy.   I couldn't disagree more. 

Ill admit I am struggling though bw him, cook, and mixon at 1.1 in my upcoming rookie draft 
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The best thing to do is to overreact to every single play in shorts and t-shirts.

 
rickyg said:
Where do we sit now with fournette?   Training camp started yesterday and already they are beaming about his pass catching ability.  I think yesterday he turned a bortles screen pass into a td in practice.  

I have heard people saying he's only a 2 down plodder comparable to lacy.   I couldn't disagree more. 

Ill admit I am struggling though bw him, cook, and mixon at 1.1 in my upcoming rookie draft 
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Lacy caught 77 balls in his first two seasons - I'd take that from Fournette.

 
Those of you that followed Fournette in college --- how's his injury history?

Does he play through minor injuries or opt to sit.

 
leftcoastguy7 said:
Those of you that followed Fournette in college --- how's his injury history?

Does he play through minor injuries or opt to sit.
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It depends, which is a non-answer.  Usually he tries to play through an injury.  This past year he injured his ankle before the season started.  He then came back early to start the year and aggravated it.  Then he came back a few weeks later (still too early) and re-aggravated it and ended up missing more time.  If LSU had better trainers/medical staff he would rested until healthy, maybe missed the first game or 2 of the season, then been fully healthy the whole rest of the year instead of hobbled all season.  He's a fighter and will want to play through whatever he can. He doesn't get injured more than the average RB, and perhaps a bit less.

 
steelers1080 said:
It depends, which is a non-answer.  Usually he tries to play through an injury.  This past year he injured his ankle before the season started.  He then came back early to start the year and aggravated it.  Then he came back a few weeks later (still too early) and re-aggravated it and ended up missing more time.  If LSU had better trainers/medical staff he would rested until healthy, maybe missed the first game or 2 of the season, then been fully healthy the whole rest of the year instead of hobbled all season.  He's a fighter and will want to play through whatever he can. He doesn't get injured more than the average RB, and perhaps a bit less.
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This is accurate.  He got a high ankle sprain and didn't let it heal properly so it kept getting re injured.  Other than that, there was no injury history. 

 
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