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RB Phillip Lindsay, IND (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
bold call here, i'll be starting him over an injured mccoy at the vikings...zftcg said:
Football Jones
Footballguy
Abdullah is a good example of somebody around 205 with excellent raw athletic ability who still has a difficult time producing on a consistent basis in today's NFL.
I was low on Abdullah when he came out & got slammed for it. In short, he doesn't have enough lead in his pants for his skill set & that was my assessment then.
215 isn't a magic number. Kamara would still be Kamara at 214, but every pound counts.
There's still a lot of eyeball scouting that goes into it. 215 is just a baseline of where I start my sliding scale when evaluating smaller RBs.
I was low on Abdullah when he came out & got slammed for it. In short, he doesn't have enough lead in his pants for his skill set & that was my assessment then.
215 isn't a magic number. Kamara would still be Kamara at 214, but every pound counts.
There's still a lot of eyeball scouting that goes into it. 215 is just a baseline of where I start my sliding scale when evaluating smaller RBs.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Ha! You have no idea the tedium involved in making a GIS.I remain impressed then.
But yeah if your shape files are in the wrong projection system your map will look like spagetti.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
Cliff's notes from Chris Simms' podcast from yesterday:
Phillip Lindsay is the best RB on the team and the staff is wasting too many carries to other RBs due to the dynamic Lindsay brings to the O. He was also complimentary of Freeman saying he's a good RB, but that Lindsay presents so much more for a defense to prepare for and stop.
I'm not sure I agree that they are wasting carries on Freeman, but from the talent review, this is pretty well in line with what I have seen. Freeman has been good, but Lindsay has shown a propensity for being special. Again, I think it comes down to the size issue more than anything.
Phillip Lindsay is the best RB on the team and the staff is wasting too many carries to other RBs due to the dynamic Lindsay brings to the O. He was also complimentary of Freeman saying he's a good RB, but that Lindsay presents so much more for a defense to prepare for and stop.
I'm not sure I agree that they are wasting carries on Freeman, but from the talent review, this is pretty well in line with what I have seen. Freeman has been good, but Lindsay has shown a propensity for being special. Again, I think it comes down to the size issue more than anything.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Maybe he’s special because he’s well rested.
a little like Kamara & Ingram in New Orleans - they compliment each other. Ingram is a bruiser, Kamara stays fresh.
i could see an even split with Freeman resulting in even more production from Lindsay since his game is predicated on having good burst. Especially considering they’re a team that plays at high altitude.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
i don't think that's the case, he's been in the game pretty early on and was taking a lot of the carries early in the game. he's just a better RB. some of the cuts he makes, the vision he displays on inside runs setting up blocks, and the lateral agility he shows along with 4.3 speed is not teachable.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
All NFL RBs benefit from getting breaks though.
Plus as special as he’s been, I still have a hard time believing Denver spent a 3rd on Freeman to let him languish on the bench.
especially considering he’s been fairly effective at his role.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
i think i misunderstood your post. i thought you were implying that Freeman was softening the D and Lindsay came in fresh.All NFL RBs benefit from getting breaks though.
Plus as special as he’s been, I still have a hard time believing Denver spent a 3rd on Freeman to let him languish on the bench.
especially considering he’s been fairly effective at his role.
I like the split Denver has going and I think they should stick with it to keep both RBs fresh for the duration of the year.
I don't agree w/ Simms' take that they should stop giving the rock to other RBs. I just wanted to pass some insight along
i do, however, agree with Simms (and Terrell Davis) that PL is the best RB on the roster
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Hilts
Footballguy
Whatever they spent to acquire their talent is a sunk cost at this point. I'm not ready to proclaim anyone a bust yet but where the guy was drafted doesn't really matter too much at this point. If they're good and help the team win, give them playing time. If they're not, send them to the bench until they get there or unemployment line.All NFL RBs benefit from getting breaks though.
Plus as special as he’s been, I still have a hard time believing Denver spent a 3rd on Freeman to let him languish on the bench.
especially considering he’s been fairly effective at his role.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Don't misinterpret this because I like Lindsay, but he ran a 4.39 40 at his Pro Day. When you compare that to RBs who were at the Combine, on a notoriously slower track, it's not as impressive.
Also, one knock on Lindsay I've seen is he doesn't play to his timed speed. Not sure I totally agree with that, but his long speed certainly isn't nearly as good as CJ's which helped him overcome being a smaller RB.
One concern I personally have is these electric-type RBs tend to have a high YPC in college. Lindsay's was good (4.9), but not overly impressive. That said, he's an interesting prospect on many levels & a great story.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
His YPC would seem to indicate he’s not a bust.
And so as has been widely accepted for years now, having 2 talented backs in a rotation can be more effective than running one into the ground.
Hilts
Footballguy
I agree. I've no issue with Denver rolling out all three options if they remain productive enough and it helps them win. I was just arguing against the draft position playing a factor in their playing time. I think it plays a factor in how long they'll keep them on the roster, but beyond that I don't see it being a guarantee of any actual playing time if they have clearly superior options.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Right, but as I mentioned, Lindsay doesn't have CJ's long speed. RBs who are used as a multi-faceted weapon in college like Lindsay was typically have a higher YPC.
It's simply a concern for me. Not in a sense Lindsay can't be a nice role player in the pros. It looks like he can by his early season success, but I'm talking about a bigger role (long-term). That's what all the discussion is about (debating his upside).
Lindsay has virtually no shot at being a long-term feature back in today's NFL, but that doesn't mean he can't be a nice contributor on your FF team. I like his talent.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
This is one reason why I'm taking offers to see what I can get for him. He'll never have Elliot or Gurley volume.
On the other hand, he's a pretty solid 200 carry 40 catch guy. Compared to guys like Michel, Jones II, or Chubb, although having big time upside, also carry the risk of not having the value of case of beer in 2 years. It's safe to say Lindsay is a RB2/3 for the foreseeable future.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
Checking his value is a good idea. If I owned Lindsay, I'd move him in the right deal, as well.
At the same time, with all the non-production going on at the position, he can help you now.
Lindsay is an interesting case study in many respects.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The Bucs spent an early second on Jones, and they don’t even activate him.
A team’s cost in acquiring the player will always give the more expensive player the edge of close and will give that player more chances but once the pads go on for the most part the better player plays.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Why do you keep saying this over and over. You have no idea if that’s true or not. I agree in order to be successful a smaller back needs some elite traits to succeed. Lindsay has shown elite lateral agility, has above average speed and plays stronger than his size.
I’m not saying he will be a multi-year feature back - the odds are against him for many reasons- but to say he has “no shot” is silly when so far he has shown that ability.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This is a good way of thinking about it that had not occurred to me.
With it happening every few years, despite most of the players being much heavier than this, it is less rare than it looks from the overall list.
I like how Lindsay runs. He has very good footwork and can weave his way through traffic. I have only seen a couple games of his so far (I did not watch any college games of his yet) I see this flexibility also when nearing contact, that at times helps him bounce off of poor tackles, or if not, to cause a glancing blow instead of a more direct hit. Not on all of the times he is tackled of course, there are a couple where he has no where to go and takes the hit more straight on then, and yeah because of physics, he isn't getting much after contact.
I like RB with this kind of awareness though, I think it helps them to stay healthy.
I have read with great interest Emmitt Smith talking about this, that the reason he was able to stay healthy and be productive for so long, is because of his ability to not take a lot of big hits. Most recently he was talking about this publicly in the context of Elliot, and advising Elliot to work on that if he wants to prolong his career.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
I don't think it's silly at all. If you wanted me to put "IMO" in there, ok, it's my opinion.
Some prospects you're in, some you're out, some you aren't sure until you get more data. For me, with Lindsay, I'm unsure how far he can go, but I'm quite confident he'll never be a long-term feature back. No way. Short-term feature back? It's possible.
If you disagree, no problem, but making early judgements on prospects is a huge part of FF.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Football Jones
Footballguy
I hear you. I really do.
I'm not black & white on a lot of guys. Meaning, I hedge my bets to some degree with many prospects, but when I feel I'm on something, I go for it.
I've had a lot of success doing it that way.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
There’s no advantage to being so sure on Lindsay though because no one is advocating going out and offering two firsts for the “next big thing”. Right now he’s some one most got for free and we also don’t need to rush out and sell because “he has no chance at ever being a feature back”.
I’m also not saying you shouldn’t sell if some one makes a nice offer because he certainly does have risk. He’s a hold right now though because why trade for a random second and no one is offering a first (nor should they).
Once again I agree the odds are stacked against him due to his size and UDFA status but many players beat the odds and right now he’s shown many traits that make him a candidate to be an outlier.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
@Dr. Octopus
You have a point about taking a middling offer. That said, depending on various factors, I'd sell for the right price.
The advantage comes if I'm right & my trade partner is wrong, but that goes for any deal involving a volatile player.
You have a point about taking a middling offer. That said, depending on various factors, I'd sell for the right price.
The advantage comes if I'm right & my trade partner is wrong, but that goes for any deal involving a volatile player.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
Football Jones
Footballguy
LOL. Definitely Rico's fault.You didn't get Lindsay cuz you're holding Rico for your last roster spot
Seriously, though, I do like Lindsay's talent. GREAT pickup for all his owners even if his ceiling is somewhat capped. :thumbsup:
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Ahmad Rashad
Footballguy
After 2 weeks, 2 of the top 3 NFL rushing leaders are 190 lbs. Matt Breida is listed at 5'11" 190 lbs, while Lindsay is listed at 5'8" 190 lbs.
I would think Lindsay being 3 inches shorter and the same weight as Breida is better built to take a lot of carries, yet I haven't heard anywhere near as many naysayers saying Breida isn't big enough to be a sustainable fantasy RB.
Warrick Dunn was listed at 5'9" 187 lbs. I think Lindsay, an inch shorter and about the same weight, could possibly carry a similar load, at least on the upside. Hard to say after only 2 NFL games, but he does have that upside...
I would think Lindsay being 3 inches shorter and the same weight as Breida is better built to take a lot of carries, yet I haven't heard anywhere near as many naysayers saying Breida isn't big enough to be a sustainable fantasy RB.
Warrick Dunn was listed at 5'9" 187 lbs. I think Lindsay, an inch shorter and about the same weight, could possibly carry a similar load, at least on the upside. Hard to say after only 2 NFL games, but he does have that upside...
skol asylum
Footballguy
Taken from the Colorado pro day measurements
https://cubuffs.com/news/2018/3/7/football-buffs-impress-at-2018-pro-timing-day.aspx
Phillip Lindsay 5'7'' 184
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Is it 184 or 190? Would you please figure it out and let me know? I have an offer on the table.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Emmitt Smith says a lot of things. He stayed healthy so long because he ran behind a mountain of human flesh, and the defense usually had no idea where he was until he was busting through the hole.
these two situations aren’t the same. Lindsay is likely going to take more contact than Emmitt Smith.
I’m not saying it means anything about Lindsay’s longevity, just commenting on Smith’s comment.
I’ve heard running backs describe “getting into 15 car crashes a week” as the toll playing takes.
Sure, in a few they’re fender benders, or the driver was able to roll with the punches if they see it coming, but some will inevitably be blindside t-bone type accidents. There’s no way to manage those hits - the other driver is controlling that narrative.
Here’s Emmitt Smith getting taken down from behind, for example. He separated his shoulder on this play:
https://youtu.be/OVZoJWXA8OE
here’s Emmitt in complete control of this Vikings tackle, where he got KTFO & coughed up the ball.
https://youtu.be/84UFnbfuVJs
yeah - completely in crontrol to avoid injury there.
C’mon Emmitt. It’s a good story, but I call BS.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
Huh? I remember seeing Emmitt, more than any other RB, run out of bounds to avoid contact. He definitely tried to keep the hits at bay -- not every single one, but early in games or in control of games, he had no problem shying away from bigger collisions -- which prolonged his career, no question.
You highlighting a few plays of his entire career does zilch to prove your point. I call BS, lol.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Google “Emmitt Smith tackle” - you’ll find dozens of links. I only posted the 1st two I found of a looooooooong list.
But sure, your memory is better proof than mountains video evidence to the contrary. Ok.
I guess you forgot his fractured shoulder blade in 2003 - I guess he forgot how to avoid Roy Williams on that play.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story?id=1632087&src=desktop
What you remember from the highlight reels are the long runs, untouched.
What folks seem to forget are the dozen or more big hits Smith took every game.
And FWIW this isn’t the 1st time Smith has used that story about a RB. He said the same thing about Ezekiel Elliott when the Cowboys drafted him.
I have no doubt Smith believes this story. But you can watch dozens of clips of him taking brutal hits.
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
Highlighting his biggest hits does not prove your point. Every RB in the NFL is gonna get shellacked at times.
But go on, and continue to dispute the words out of his own mouth. Hey look, the fantasy football internet guru is proving Emmitt himself, wrong. He even showed some replays!
But go on, and continue to dispute the words out of his own mouth. Hey look, the fantasy football internet guru is proving Emmitt himself, wrong. He even showed some replays!
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Looks like I'm forced to start him as Fournette looks like he'll be riding pine.
Choo f'n choo.
Choo f'n choo.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You sound tickled.
the good news is that against the tough BAL D, the Broncos should be dumping off a lot. I could see Lindsay having a big day.
I’m benching R.Freeman for it, but this isn’t a bad spot for a Lindsay start.
good luck brudda.
DropKick
Footballguy
184 at altitude. 190 at sea level.
Love the story. How often does the fantasy community get a surprise starter at RB in week one? I'm skeptical of the long term outlook; partly due to being undersized but also the variability of the "hot hand" approach. Would be nice to see a few more receptions which would establish a respectable floor.
Ride him while he is hot - especially with the rash of injuries around the league. I think he is also a potential sell high if you have good RB depth and can upgrade another position.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Ejected for throwing a punch #### #### #### ####
Hilts
Footballguy
