FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
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RB Phillip Lindsay, IND (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
Well 30 man roster with no IR or anything so nobody usually comes on waivers thats a huge game changer or anything, at least after a breakout game like that. Might just go for a even 2/3s bid.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I posted this in the ww thread but the only player to ever come close to Lindsay's current pace (240 attempts) who has similar measurables to him (5'7, 185, 28 BMI) was Mack Hereon in 1974 with 231 attempts. The secomd most was Larod Stephens-Howling with ~110. The 4th most is Tarik Cohen with 87.
Hilts
Footballguy
How many with his measurables have been in his position to begin with? Ie what's the sample size? If only half a dozen guys have even had his opportunity, I'm not sure how relevant that is. Did the others have the same speed? College workload?
He's listed on NFL.com as 5-8/190; if that's accurate, would it expand the list significantly?
Regardless, I agree with your broader point. I like him and have high hopes; but I can't see a ceiling beyond the Woodhead/Sproles scatback profile (which is not nothing, but is also not what we saw in Week 1).
I'm also having flashbacks to the Tarik Cohen thread at this time last year. I picked him up but kept my expectations firmly in check. Others, suffice it to say, did not.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
He’s an outlier already though, no?
He had a massive workload in college and appears to be a big part of Denver’s plans. His BMI is a lot higher than plenty of guys who handled big workloads—Dunn (And Lindsay is as close to Dunn as he is to Cohen), Charles, C.Johnson, etc.
I doubt they run enough to support two 15+ carry backs, so he’s unlikely to approach 240. But I’m not sure they’re particularly worried about him getting 15 in a game - and I’m not sure they should be.
Elevencents
Footballguy
Thank you! I love when people post the streamlined touches. To me he looks quite elusive which you would expect for someone of his stature but the other thing I like is he runs just as hard in the 4th as he does in the 1st. One thing you can usually count on from these fringe guys who aren’t media darlings.Dismattle said:I just found this posted on YouTube... Some like me who couldn't watch the game may enjoy! https://youtu.be/HTBnm05y37U
(imho) It's a great opportunity to see what's possible when the Oline does their job even creating a small hole because TTD is able to just slip right on thru the hole and also plenty of bursts to outrun the pursuit
May have to go increase my bid price
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hamsterdam
Footballguy
I read that despite his size, he’s actually an above average pass blocker. I forget which site whoever posted it referenced, I tried finding it to no avail.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I think some of you guys might be going a bit overboard on this guy. He’s still splitting time 3 ways - Freeman has as many snaps and Booker was only 7 snaps backs. Joseph can still easily mishandle this backfield (Booker still lurking and still playing a significant amount). And Lindsay isn’t going to cash in as many times as he did on Sunday with the number of snaps/opportunities that he had.
He’s a nice complimentary piece, IMO. Some of you guys are acting as though its only a matter of time before he’s the bell cow. That ain’t happening.
He’s a nice complimentary piece, IMO. Some of you guys are acting as though its only a matter of time before he’s the bell cow. That ain’t happening.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Agree. He's a high risk player for sure. Anyone counting on all of those receptions are going to be disappointed. He's similar to Tarik Cohen, which means he may give you a goose egg some weeks, but he may be a RB2 some weeks. I'm back and forth on him. I like him, but I am not sure I trust him yet.
4th&inches
Footballguy
they do actually. Go to the "League" page, scroll down to where the transactions are shown and click on "FAAB Bids".
That should show any losing bids along with the winning one.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Who in particular are you referring to? I don’t see anyone suggesting he is the inevitable bell cow.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
I don't think it's on mobile, but on a computer on your league homepage scroll down past standings to recent transactions. Click FAAB Bids
ETA: 4th and inches got ya ?
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Didn’t you say that you thought he could handle 15 carries a week? Add on receptions and I would guess you are inferring 20 touches a week, +/-. That’s bell cow territory. And that doesn’t even touch the guys spending 40%+ of their FA cap on this guy based upon his week 1 numbers, or some of the others working themselves up over him.
skol asylum
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Took 6% in my league. He’s a strong consideration for my Wk 2 RB2 over Cohen, Hyde, & Kerryon based on matchups.
Ekeler went for 21%, which seemed
to me.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I see this game as a bit flukey. I doubt they give Lindsey this workload going forward.
he definitely dampens Freeman’s PPR value since he’s a better receiver, and he’ll have a role as a COP.
IMO that’s more likely to be a 10-Ish touch a week role than a 17 touch a week role.
What I see is game-flow/hot hand/lower the pressure on the rookie RB by rotating him in fresh/thunder & lightning approach.
I recall the broncos saying they’d gradually increase Freeman’s workload. He’s the one built for 15-20 touches a week, and IMO he’s got some big weeks ahead.
What I really see is Booker losing his job yet again.
he definitely dampens Freeman’s PPR value since he’s a better receiver, and he’ll have a role as a COP.
IMO that’s more likely to be a 10-Ish touch a week role than a 17 touch a week role.
What I see is game-flow/hot hand/lower the pressure on the rookie RB by rotating him in fresh/thunder & lightning approach.
I recall the broncos saying they’d gradually increase Freeman’s workload. He’s the one built for 15-20 touches a week, and IMO he’s got some big weeks ahead.
What I really see is Booker losing his job yet again.
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
What a boner killer.
ETA - wait, that’s a good thing right? I’d hate to be the opposite.
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socrates
Footballguy
Is Lindsay's workload and running style writing checks his body can't cash? Lindsay is the type of player we all like to see succeed; he is dedicated and plays with unbridled passion. He also runs with an aggressive style which his frame is not likely to withstand. I never like to predict injuries, but if the Broncos intend to give Lindsay such a heavy workload, I just cannot imagine him holding up for long. I hope I am wrong.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Thanks. Had no idea that was available. My $42 bid was a little high. There were 2 other bids, $25 and $9. I never know how high to go when bidding. I have some desperate needs at RB (Drake, Crow, Barber). Dropped GB Jamaal Williams and Chubb. Also overbid on Enunwa.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
My suggesting he might be able to handle 15 carries per game is very different than my projecting it - as I pointed out above your post. But you knew that, right?
I don’t know what “working themselves up over him” means.
The cap conversation I was part of was regarding dynasty leagues. If you have normal rosters and your league was asleep at the wheel and left him on the wire - you should absolutely spend 40+% of your B.B.$ to land him.
We’re talking about a guy who appears to offer RB3/RB4/Flex value, with potential for more, on top of his obvious handcuff value. That’s worth talking about in most leagues, especially in dynasty formats, as he’s a rookie.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I guess I’d disagree with a lot of this post but I’m just not interested in a prolonged debate over a guy like Lindsay. You brought up the possibility of him handling 15 carries per game - why even put that on the table if you then don’t think it can happen and feel it shouldn’t be brought up for more discussion?
There are other players throughout this season are likely to gain a lot more FF relevance than him as we move forward - we just don’t know who they are yet. If you piss away a huge chunk of your cap on a RB4/flex week flyer in week 1, you’ll be sitting and watching while your opponents scoop up the real difference makers. There appears to be a severe over-reaction to this guy. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong and he’ll win leagues for people. I’m just not seeing it based upon his week 1 production looking like it may not be sustainable.
Just my thoughts on the whole thing.
.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
If he’s not worth your time, that’s fine. Just don’t straw man my take on him.
I don’t play in dynasty leagues where “real difference makers” are sitting on the wire in-season. They’re scooped up long before they command a sizable bid to acquire them. You’d be saving your money for defenses with good matchups and lesser handcuffs in line to start for a few weeks. Maybe that’s the disconnect.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
lol. he went for $0 in my redraft. I thought about putting a small claim on him but I didn't have anyone I wanted to drop. We have short benches and I already have 5 good RBs
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Dismattle
Footballguy
Guess he could be talking about my posts Although I'm more positive about actual snap count vs. carries It may be a game or two but I could almost see Booker inactive The real test to me which could vary from the level of competition should be short yardage plays especially at the GL It's not the time you want to see your RB bounce back a yard as opposed to bruising forward a yard (Freeman goes like 240 pds) Basically, there's a chance TTD may have an excess of attention/obsession with hitting the hole In the video I posted above I personally questioned at least one play just a bit
btw I noticed another post about size Tony Dorsett played at a different time but only went 192 pds Lindsay could not only play hard n' fast but also for yrs
Real credit needs to go to @Cecil Lammey
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I swear he’s had the easiest paycheck since Matt Cassell held the clipboard for Tom Terrific.
It’s like the Broncos could bring in the custodian, slap a jersey on him & Booker would be like, “here we go again.”
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Wait - you aren't interested in a prolonged debate about Lindsay.......in the Lindsay player thread? Seriously? That's one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen on a board full of ridiculous statements.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Was likening this situation to Tarik's last season, except Howard > Freeman. 6% is a deal.Took 6% in my league. He’s a strong consideration for my Wk 2 RB2 over Cohen, Hyde, & Kerryon based on matchups.
Ekeler went for 21%, which seemed
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
That I’m not interested in it? Seriously, what’s so ridiculous about that? I’m not infringing on anyone else’s ability to engage in a 20+ post back-and-forth, but I won’t engage. But hey, you too have a great day!
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Agree that this guy is not going to run away with the job and get Fournette or CMC-like usage -- the stature and style of the back he is doesn't seem to support it, and DEN seems always willing to ride a hot hand and go by committee.
His upside is undeniable in PPR -- to me, he feels like the kind of guy who is so electric that he demands touches and could turn into that back that comes out of nowhere off the wire and helps teams drive to the playoffs -- there is always that kind of come out of the blue back, and given his pedigree and skill, it's not out of the question. However, the probability is very low. We haven't seen Booker completely ride pine just yet, and Freeman did look good in preseason.
Instead, what I like is that in my PPR (2/3 point) a back like this who gets a lot of looks in the passing game becomes a flex consideration any week -- like Cohen, the guy is electric and the team should look to continue to use him until proven otherwise that he can't sustain success. I am also not sold on the Denver TEs -- Butt is a talent but has yet to show consistency in both health and performance. Heuerman doesn't seem to me to be more than a JAG. So the underneath routes seem to be all Lindsay's, which helps his touch count. Sanders is great, but while DT had a good game he's been known to disappear and I think the team needs receiving help.
Pair that with Lindsay becoming more attractive when they are up against teams that are strong up front against the run and/or in the secondary, but weak in the middle LB corps, and Lindsay (assuming he retains his targets/touches) becomes a bona-fide flex starter in PPR.
Not expecting him to be an elite stud, but there's a solid chance he continues to contribute at a high level if he can maintain this performance. I like what I saw, and was easy to give up a guy like Gio for his upside.
His upside is undeniable in PPR -- to me, he feels like the kind of guy who is so electric that he demands touches and could turn into that back that comes out of nowhere off the wire and helps teams drive to the playoffs -- there is always that kind of come out of the blue back, and given his pedigree and skill, it's not out of the question. However, the probability is very low. We haven't seen Booker completely ride pine just yet, and Freeman did look good in preseason.
Instead, what I like is that in my PPR (2/3 point) a back like this who gets a lot of looks in the passing game becomes a flex consideration any week -- like Cohen, the guy is electric and the team should look to continue to use him until proven otherwise that he can't sustain success. I am also not sold on the Denver TEs -- Butt is a talent but has yet to show consistency in both health and performance. Heuerman doesn't seem to me to be more than a JAG. So the underneath routes seem to be all Lindsay's, which helps his touch count. Sanders is great, but while DT had a good game he's been known to disappear and I think the team needs receiving help.
Pair that with Lindsay becoming more attractive when they are up against teams that are strong up front against the run and/or in the secondary, but weak in the middle LB corps, and Lindsay (assuming he retains his targets/touches) becomes a bona-fide flex starter in PPR.
Not expecting him to be an elite stud, but there's a solid chance he continues to contribute at a high level if he can maintain this performance. I like what I saw, and was easy to give up a guy like Gio for his upside.
Dismattle
Footballguy
Good example! Not really much added to the actual subject Much worse than hearing a real take on the player whether it ignores or looks past someone else's take You by chance in the Freeman thread pumping up the noise? (sorry, being rhetorical)
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Very well said. I'm in a 12-team league with deep rosters. A guy like Lindsay is a gift -- he could easily be RB3/flex for a team that competes into the playoffs this year.
Then again, Cohen looked amazing early last year and then kind of fizzled out....so there is absolutely that risk with Lindsay too.
Dismattle
Footballguy
My honest take Cecil has called out a few Denver backs for us Dynasty guys to take flyers on Not only is/was he bound to hit This young man seems to really fit the bill Hell I don't know if he would have enjoyed being drafted in say the 4th round It would almost have been an insult plus odds are no other team was that interested Chance any scouts have to be clueless to not know the guy hoped to play for the Bronco's I dunno Denver has Pacman now so TTD may not even see return yards although he is a gunner Honestly not really in love with guys who play excessively hard n' fast because of the risk for injury NE has a guy named Chung at SS that I just couldn't stand having on my roster even though he had sustained production Freeman may not be able to take one to the house from the one-yard line But he's a proven commodity to handle a heavy workload Quite large enough to possibly handle it at the NFL level IF I'm the Broncos HC I think I'd at least consider options IF I really thought my team has a chance for the Only game that matters There's some hard-hitting safety's in the NFL is all I'm saying Not suppose to fear #### so I like to think Lindsay is DaMan
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
High floor, mid-ceiling flex player who costs you nothing. So if he vanishes next week he didn’t cost you anything more than a speculative add.
i love those kinds of players, especially when they work out.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
So you’re expecting him to break his long running streak with something that is actually accurate and knowledgeable?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
True.
i used to play in a league with FAAB, only we all had $100 in real money as a cap.
so when you bind bid 37% of your budget you reaaaallllly have to question whether a player is worth a $37 pickup out of pocket.
i admit, I kinda loved that format.
People whined about it, but I just looked at it like league entry was $200 instead of $100. And with a little luck/skill, you might only play for $120 or so.
But that’s all an aside. Lindsey = cheap flex. I’d add him if he wasn’t claimed in both my leagues.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
It's weird that you keep coming back for a discussion that you have no interest in.
So you’re expecting him to break his long running streak with something that is actually accurate and knowledgeable?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
I feel like he's the guy. I can see Andre Ellington production at worst.
He's healthy. He's seeing carries. He's seeing touches. Failed to get him in 1 league on WW. Hoping to land him in at least one...
He's healthy. He's seeing carries. He's seeing touches. Failed to get him in 1 league on WW. Hoping to land him in at least one...
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
1. Flex value, you’ve likely seen his “ceiling” game, barring injury to Freeman (knock on wood) and even then I’d expect the Broncos to bring in a big back rather than hand over a feature back role to a 5’8” 185 lb dude. Booker will still be worthless because he’s terrible.
2. No shame in playing defense with a FA c0ck block.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
For me, it's his pass catching ability that intrigues me.1. Flex value, you’ve likely seen his “ceiling” game, barring injury to Freeman (knock on wood) and even then I’d expect the Broncos to bring in a big back rather than hand over a feature back role to a 5’8” 185 lb dude. Booker will still be worthless because he’s terrible.
2. No shame in playing defense with a FA c0ck block.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He’s Buck Allen, only probably won’t have the same opportunity since Freeman isn’t a fumbler & his coach isn’t a “punish the runner by benching him” kinda dude hat I’ve seen.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Absolutely - that’s what gives him weekly PPR flex value.
i don’t see him getting this many carries very often.
And so long as Freeman is healthy i can’t see him used at the stripe much.
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