Football Jones
Footballguy
Huh?He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
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RB RJ Harvey, DEN (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
Football Jones
Footballguy
My point was Harvey turns 25 during the 2025 NFL season. Let's not pretend age doesn't matter. I believe it's even more of a factor in FF. As far as Payton is concerned, it doesn't seem like it was a big hinderance since he took him in the 2nd round.
I wouldn't say it's a death blow to his value...that would be overstating things significantly, but it's certainly something to weigh in his evaluation.
I wouldn't say it's a death blow to his value...that would be overstating things significantly, but it's certainly something to weigh in his evaluation.
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pinkstapler
Footballguy
This thread is my current front runner for receiving the most victory laps by mid season. I haven't a clue who will be taking them, but I'm fairly certain someone(s) will haha.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Is this really something to look forward to…?
I was just kidding around. There’s been so much about his 24 age that I thought the comment was funny.Huh?He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Made no moral judgement good/bad on it. Just predicting it will be what happens. The 2025 version of the Jameson Williams thread, just featuring less jon_mx
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Broken clocks are right twice a day.
eighsse2
Footballguy
Dude this guy's gonna be FIFTY-SIX two or three years before the other rookies are! FIFTY-SIX!I was just kidding around. There’s been so much about his 24 age that I thought the comment was funny.Huh?He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
Football Jones
Footballguy
No problem. I wasn't sure what you meant, lol.I was just kidding around. There’s been so much about his 24 age that I thought the comment was funny.Huh?He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
I know there are people who are totally fine with Harvey's age and that's ok. For me, given the position's shortened lifespan to begin with, age is something I put a fair amount of emphasis on, but it's not a dealbreaker by any means.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
SS checks will be in his mailbox any day now.Dude this guy's gonna be FIFTY-SIX two or three years before the other rookies are! FIFTY-SIX!I was just kidding around. There’s been so much about his 24 age that I thought the comment was funny.Huh?He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
joey
Footballguy
My problem is, when I’m holding mid-1st round rookie picks in recent years, I’m more like a broken calendar: right once a year.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
The more I look into rookie success rates, the more discouraging I find drafting them.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
No problem. I wasn't sure what you meant, lol.I was just kidding around. There’s been so much about his 24 age that I thought the comment was funny.Huh?He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
I know there are people who are totally fine with Harvey's age and that's ok. For me, given the position's shortened lifespan to begin with, age is something I put a fair amount of emphasis on, but it's not a dealbreaker by any means.
It seems to me that his age is an advantage in the short term. I don’t play in a traditional dynasty league but rather a contract league. But either way, I don’t think I’d be looking much more than about three years out. Even in a contract league, I rather not sign a contract that extends beyond a player’s NFL contract length. I recognize that things work a little different with rookies in dynasty. Especially QBs who might have a longer playing horizon.
Like how Sanders was a first round pick and now not?
Football Jones
Footballguy
I don't pay much attention to a QB's age coming into the league since they tend to have much, much longer careers. I play dynasty so I do consider a RB's age when I'm ranking them.No problem. I wasn't sure what you meant, lol.I was just kidding around. There’s been so much about his 24 age that I thought the comment was funny.Huh?He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
I know there are people who are totally fine with Harvey's age and that's ok. For me, given the position's shortened lifespan to begin with, age is something I put a fair amount of emphasis on, but it's not a dealbreaker by any means.
It seems to me that his age is an advantage in the short term. I don’t play in a traditional dynasty league but rather a contract league. But either way, I don’t think I’d be looking much more than about three years out. Even in a contract league, I rather not sign a contract that extends beyond a player’s NFL contract length. I recognize that things work a little different with rookies in dynasty. Especially QBs who might have a longer playing horizon.
I've never played in a contract league so not sure if my strategy would be different.
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taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
I don't pay much attention to a QB's age coming into the league since they tend to have much, much longer careers. I play dynasty so I do consider a RB's age when I'm ranking them. I've never played in a contract league so I'm not sure if my strategy would be different.No problem. I wasn't sure what you meant, lol.I was just kidding around. There’s been so much about his 24 age that I thought the comment was funny.Huh?He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?
I said he turns 25 before the Super Bowl (meaning, the next one). And yes, he turned 24 this past February, lol.
I know there are people who are totally fine with Harvey's age and that's ok. For me, given the position's shortened lifespan to begin with, age is something I put a fair amount of emphasis on, but it's not a dealbreaker by any means.
It seems to me that his age is an advantage in the short term. I don’t play in a traditional dynasty league but rather a contract league. But either way, I don’t think I’d be looking much more than about three years out. Even in a contract league, I rather not sign a contract that extends beyond a player’s NFL contract length. I recognize that things work a little different with rookies in dynasty. Especially QBs who might have a longer playing horizon.
Dynasty is more of a career long investment. Contract is about salary and contract term. Our max contract is five-years. Rookies are automatically on four-year deals. In this context, RJ Harvey age is a little less of an issue in a contract league.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
the worst pass protection % in all of college seems like a good reason why he may not get a fulltime roll.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Ray has been banging his Harvey drum for well over a month now. Wasn't the only one, but he did seem the loudest to me. Can't say he's wrong or right, but he's certainly trying to make fetch happen hah.
I keep going back and forth daily between him and Kaleb. Might not figure it out till I'm on the clock.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
took him at #6 over Judkin and K Johnson along with Henderson at #5, yeah hes a 1 or 2 older than I would like but I do feel he will give insta numbers; and I expect those 2 are going to get a lot of work this yr
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Also a high fumble rate. I do not see the excitement over him, but good luck to those that do.
brewer
Footballguy
Opportunity and situation absolutely matter.
No, his second round draft capital does not automatically move him above others on my draft board, but if that, coupled with the relative lack of competition in the Denver backfield, doesn't move him up your board in some way, I would suggest you're overthinking this hobby.
No, his second round draft capital does not automatically move him above others on my draft board, but if that, coupled with the relative lack of competition in the Denver backfield, doesn't move him up your board in some way, I would suggest you're overthinking this hobby.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Time will tell, however I do not necessarily trust Payton on how he employs RBs. I do not think Harvey’s talent is enough to automatically assign him a huge role either. Call me a fool if you like, willing to be wrong on this guy
Max Power
Footballguy
I'm picking at 1.09 and I'll be happy with which one is left. Glad I don't have to make the decision because it's a tough one. I'd probably go Kaleb because I had him rated higher going into the draft.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Same. Same. And same lol. He just feels like the safer bet at this point.
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
It's interesting that we have another Payton RB in what is shaping up to be the best draft class for RB talent since Kamara's 2017 class. I recall having a hard time placing Kamara over CMC, Cook and Fournette. I liked him over Mixon only because of off field stuff. I know Corey Davis went over him in most leagues and some poor folks probably drafted OJ Howard over him. I gotta dig in more on RJ before I form an opinion. Right now, I much prefer Kaleb and Egbuka because I have a good idea of what I'm getting.
brewer
Footballguy
Definitely not calling anyone a fool. Just saying that each new piece of information is important. The guy I liked best coming in also went to a great landing spot and situation so he's probably still ahead of Harvey on my board but Harvey definitely climbed quite a bit for me since a week ago.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Payton's history speaks for itself. He's much better at drafting than I am, and I believe this is the kid he wanted. He is a very good coach, if Harvey has issues then Payton and his staff is a decent bet to fix them and get the most out of the player like they did w Nixs
good post.
Just technically, we KNOW this is the kid he wanted, by his post-draft presser -and- the fact that he took a CB in the first round when all other options (besides Jeanty) were available.
I'm a broncos homer and maybe I'm biased since this is the first time in years that I have hope
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Well. I was told a couple days ago that he was too good of a runner. Apparently that's why he'll fail as a receiver. It isn't even circular logic it's just stupid. Dude caught 61 balls for over 700 yards in college (that's really really efficient) but he's going to fail to receive in the NFL because... he's too good of a runner.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I mean... he's *going* to get the chance to be proven wrong.
Do I care where high-usage RB fantasy points come from? Whether that player is "legit" or not?
I don't. I just stack the chips and say to myself of course you draft the explosive back Payton just gushed over drafting into an almost empty backfield. If he washes out and isn't that guy he's still going to get 15-20 touches a game and is *going* to return value. These kind of fantasy RB situations don't just pop up every day.
IMO making the pick and being wrong about him is 1000 times better than not making the pick and being wrong about him. I'd rather my guy fail than to have not drafted him and then watch him explode on my opponent's roster. If he fails you still get some value (because he is a RB that will play and accumulate FF points) and who knows maybe you even flip him for a profit. But if he is the guy, or even a portion of that guy, and you faded him, you're the sucker. You got zero value besides the dice roll on whoever you did end up picking.
Gotta get RB points somehow. Do I care if the guy is going to be 28 by the end of this first contract? I do not. Take those points where you can get them. That's all RBs do these days in the NFL anyway. The criteria doesn't need to be that the guy is the next Saquon to be on my team. You want someone without warts well **** so do I.
Do I care where high-usage RB fantasy points come from? Whether that player is "legit" or not?
I don't. I just stack the chips and say to myself of course you draft the explosive back Payton just gushed over drafting into an almost empty backfield. If he washes out and isn't that guy he's still going to get 15-20 touches a game and is *going* to return value. These kind of fantasy RB situations don't just pop up every day.
IMO making the pick and being wrong about him is 1000 times better than not making the pick and being wrong about him. I'd rather my guy fail than to have not drafted him and then watch him explode on my opponent's roster. If he fails you still get some value (because he is a RB that will play and accumulate FF points) and who knows maybe you even flip him for a profit. But if he is the guy, or even a portion of that guy, and you faded him, you're the sucker. You got zero value besides the dice roll on whoever you did end up picking.
Gotta get RB points somehow. Do I care if the guy is going to be 28 by the end of this first contract? I do not. Take those points where you can get them. That's all RBs do these days in the NFL anyway. The criteria doesn't need to be that the guy is the next Saquon to be on my team. You want someone without warts well **** so do I.
Assume you are talking about me and you could not misconstrue what I was saying harder if you tried. Only thing you remotely got correct I was saying is he's a good runner and that is first and foremost why he was drafted.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
IDK what to tell you but you twisted my words from the word go so I'm just not interested. You've got a pretty bad strawman problem lately.
Touche
My concern on Harvey's ability to be a big time part of the passing game, not just solid, is pretty much summed up here in a nutshell in this quote.
"While Harvey's tape and analytics suggest he can be a solid pass-catcher, he never crested 25 catches in a college season, and his pass-blocking is ... potentially horrible. Of the 270 college running backs with 40+ pass-blocking snaps last season, Harvey's 21.8 PFF grade ranks, unironically, dead last. If he can't improve in that respect, he may never see the field on third down, which would severely cap his upside in dynasty."
Sproles is a great example of a someone who had limited passing game production in college who excelled under Payton. That's the hope for someone like Harvey and he might have that potential but by the time Sproles got with Payton he'd been in the league 6 years and while the presence of LT helped bring these numbers down he was a work in progress which took time. He missed a season but his pass catching totals the 5 years he played was 3,10, 29,45 and 59.
And why does all of this mean to much to me? Because Mark Ingram is about the only stud RB, only one I'm interested in paying what Harvey cost, who played under Payton who was not catching 70+ passes a year(really 80+) and he only had had two good seasons out of 8(or 7 if we want to remove the year Payton was out).
Pass catching means a ton in PPR fantays for every RB. It's more impactful in Payton's system then any system I've ever seen and again being merely OK at it, which I think he will be, is not enough, need to be elite at it like Reggie, Kamara and Sproles.
"While Harvey's tape and analytics suggest he can be a solid pass-catcher, he never crested 25 catches in a college season, and his pass-blocking is ... potentially horrible. Of the 270 college running backs with 40+ pass-blocking snaps last season, Harvey's 21.8 PFF grade ranks, unironically, dead last. If he can't improve in that respect, he may never see the field on third down, which would severely cap his upside in dynasty."
Sproles is a great example of a someone who had limited passing game production in college who excelled under Payton. That's the hope for someone like Harvey and he might have that potential but by the time Sproles got with Payton he'd been in the league 6 years and while the presence of LT helped bring these numbers down he was a work in progress which took time. He missed a season but his pass catching totals the 5 years he played was 3,10, 29,45 and 59.
And why does all of this mean to much to me? Because Mark Ingram is about the only stud RB, only one I'm interested in paying what Harvey cost, who played under Payton who was not catching 70+ passes a year(really 80+) and he only had had two good seasons out of 8(or 7 if we want to remove the year Payton was out).
Pass catching means a ton in PPR fantays for every RB. It's more impactful in Payton's system then any system I've ever seen and again being merely OK at it, which I think he will be, is not enough, need to be elite at it like Reggie, Kamara and Sproles.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I don't know any data but I've always found it a little paradoxical how RB targets might be expected to relate to pass-blocking ability.
- If a RB is out there, on a passing play, he's either blocking, or running a route (yeah, I guess there are play designs where you start to block, and then run).
- If he's out there to run a route, the coach shouldn't care how he is at blocking.
-If he's out there to block, the coach definitely wants him to be a good blocker.
- Then you ask yourself, if my guy is out there, do I want him blocking, or running a route? Obviously running a route.
This seems to add up to, if my RB is in on a passing play, I want him to be a bad pass blocker.
The main counterpoint I can think of is, the coach would prefer to be unpredictable. If the RB sucks at pass blocking, and the defense expects a pass play, they know the RB is running a route; whereas if the RB is good at blocking and receiving, they don't know what the RB is going to be doing. So that's one reason why a bad pass blocker might simply rarely see the field on a passing down.
But my point -- if valid(?) -- is, if the guy is in fact out there to run a route (which is what you want), being a bad pass blocker is no issue. So overall, does a coach avoid giving him routes, or not?
good post.
I think most RBs in his situation just need to be legit willing, which he is. Chipping a block and going into a route is sufficient.
I think pass pro is overrated when the play is designed to get the ball out of the QBs hands quickly. Andy Reid is really good at that design as I think Sean Payton is also.
I'm not sure why menobrown is choosing this hill to die on?
Stoneworker
Footballguy
What's kind of funny is that the poster bashing Harvey's pass game potential is relying heavily on an article that quotes a pre-draft stat from PFF.
But do we know what PFF had to say after the draft?
A big reason for optimism for Harvey is that he gets to play in Sean Payton’s offense. Broncos running backs have caught 214 passes over the past two years, which is more than any other team.
Harvey was arguably the biggest winner in the draft at running back because he landed on a team where his skill set could lead to fantasy stardom. A top-10 season is within the realm of possibility if he dominates the passing down role and also averages at least eight carries per game.
PFF: RJ Harvey Profile 4-29-25
But do we know what PFF had to say after the draft?
PROJECTED ROLE
Harvey spent the last two seasons as a feature back, but he was consistently on the field more frequently for passing situations than for early downs. His primary role with the Broncos will likely be in passing situations. A big reason for optimism for Harvey is that there’s an opportunity to play on early downs as well.A big reason for optimism for Harvey is that he gets to play in Sean Payton’s offense. Broncos running backs have caught 214 passes over the past two years, which is more than any other team.
Harvey was arguably the biggest winner in the draft at running back because he landed on a team where his skill set could lead to fantasy stardom. A top-10 season is within the realm of possibility if he dominates the passing down role and also averages at least eight carries per game.
PFF: RJ Harvey Profile 4-29-25
BespokeJort
Footballguy
If you’re a strong contender at the end of the 1st I can see the appeal, but if my team is bad enough to warrant a mid-high first RB is already towards the bottom of where I’d like to spend it barring a “one missing piece and I got otherwise unlucky” situation, even before you get into him being 24. If my projected window is 2 years out he’s working against me for the first couple and then I’d better be ready to go when the window hits or he’s already gonna be getting hard to trade for the value his production would dictate.
Obviously if he’s your clear bpa you take him (and a hit at a non-roster-optimal position beats a bust at an optimal one). But it’s sure not how I like to rebuild if all things are equal
Long story short I'm of the belief if you are not good at pass blocking it limits the snaps and opportunites for you to be on the field in obvious passing downs.
This does not apply to Harvey but there are situations when you can be so good at pass blocking it actually limits your target share. I've seen some concern for this on Henderson and I recall Cowboys coaches discussing it at one point with Zeke when they were questioned why he was not used as much in the passing game.
I am absolutely not of the opinion that being bad in pass pro is a positive in any way.
good post
Yeah, it’s not a positive. Sometimes the QB needs to audible out of a run into a pass, or into a different protection call based upon what the defense is showing. If your RB is a sieve as a pass blocker, that can either limit protection call options or get the quarterback killed.
Is being bad as a pass blocker a death knell? No, but it doesn’t help a player stay on the field and certainly can lead to the opposite if he’s jeopardizing Bo Nix’s well being.
Is being bad as a pass blocker a death knell? No, but it doesn’t help a player stay on the field and certainly can lead to the opposite if he’s jeopardizing Bo Nix’s well being.
i think the team will lean on a high quality OL.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Boom
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
he's roughly 1.08 or beyond, yeah he's 24 now with not much tread on the tires. I know age is way more a factor but your still getting a good for the next 4 to 5 years and I expect he will do better yr 1 then his counterparts not named Jeanty.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Frankly, most of us shouldn’t be projecting more than 5 years away anyway. Take the player you think will perform in the next few years, beyond that is totally guessing. Injuries, situations change, etc.
Catbird
Footballguy
Are people thinking Payton didn't consider pretty carefully the guy's age, potential blocking issue and the solid but not currently elite receiving skills when making the draft pick? Or is it that they watched tape, understand those issues better than Payton and so know better than he how much these issues will impact Harvey and the offense?
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
End of the first seems like the right risk/reward for me. Love the slashing style, pass catching looks natural and I don’t care enough about his age. My biggest concern is that Denver signs Chubb a week later. Jaleel is a solid player but that RB room just feels light for a team that has playoff aspirations.
That had not occurred to us, Dude.
This actually scares me a bit now that you say it. Whether it’s Chubb or some other FA. Could put a dent in the early production.
