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RB Royce Freeman, LAR (1 Viewer)

Dr. Dan said:
It may not have been a haymaker, but he threw more than 1 punch, after spearing the guy in the back. 
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It kinda looked like he wanted to jump into the scrum for the ball. I don't think he had bad intent. And it looked like slap fighting to me...not punches. Does not matter though. They thought enough to toss him.

I have seen far worse. That was my point. So much worse in fact.

 
Todem said:
It kinda looked like he wanted to jump into the scrum for the ball. I don't think he had bad intent. And it looked like slap fighting to me...not punches. Does not matter though. They thought enough to toss him.

I have seen far worse. That was my point. So much worse in fact.
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I've seen a lot worse too. But I've never seen a guy throwing punches while the ref is standing an inch behind him and bent over at the waist and staring at you from less than 18 inches while throwing punches. I've never seen worse when the Ref's face was less than 2 feet away. Rewatch it and tell me who has the better view of the infraction? Because context adds a lot to this. 

I've seen guys get up off the pile and step on a player's hand and twist his foot to try to break it. I've never seen that while the ref was reading the downed players palm. 

 
TheFanatic said:
I've seen a lot worse too. But I've never seen a guy throwing punches while the ref is standing an inch behind him and bent over at the waist and staring at you from less than 18 inches while throwing punches. I've never seen worse when the Ref's face was less than 2 feet away. Rewatch it and tell me who has the better view of the infraction? Because context adds a lot to this. 

I've seen guys get up off the pile and step on a player's hand and twist his foot to try to break it. I've never seen that while the ref was reading the downed players palm. 
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Well that's on him. And he made a huge error in judgment with an official right on top of him. 

Either way...I doubt the kid ever get's tossed from a game again. Learning opportunity. 

 
Todem said:
Well that's on him. And he made a huge error in judgment with an official right on top of him. 

Either way...I doubt the kid ever get's tossed from a game again. Learning opportunity. 
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Anyone that's a Lindsay owner has to hope so. 

 
Todem said:
It kinda looked like he wanted to jump into the scrum for the ball. I don't think he had bad intent. And it looked like slap fighting to me...not punches. Does not matter though. They thought enough to toss him.

I have seen far worse. That was my point. So much worse in fact.
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Haha, what? I haven't rewatched it, but I saw it on red zone yesterday and remember thinking "wtf is he doing?" He was way late and straight up speared the opponent, making zero play on the ball. Basically begging for a flag. Really weird. Even weirder someone could watch it and think he wanted to jump into the scrum for the ball. 

 
Todem said:
It kinda looked like he wanted to jump into the scrum for the ball. I don't think he had bad intent. And it looked like slap fighting to me...not punches. Does not matter though. They thought enough to toss him.

I have seen far worse. That was my point. So much worse in fact.
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The play had been over for a few seconds

It's obvious he was retaliating because a player on the opposing team had jumped into the pile late, and Lindsay dove into his back head first. Was the same player he was punching. 

 
FF Ninja said:
Haha, what? I haven't rewatched it, but I saw it on red zone yesterday and remember thinking "wtf is he doing?" He was way late and straight up speared the opponent, making zero play on the ball. Basically begging for a flag. Really weird. Even weirder someone could watch it and think he wanted to jump into the scrum for the ball. 
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The weirdest thing to me was that two officials threw a flag prior to/as he was jumping into the pile.  Then one official through a 2nd flag when he saw Linsday acting like a sailor on shore leave.

They conferred and only announced a single penalty.  And on top of it all, they ####ed up the fumble recovery by Washington somehow.

 
Honestly this offense should just be Freeman gets 15-20 carries. Lindsay gets 12-15 carries and 5+ catches. They'd probably win more.

 
Freeman looked really good tonight.  

Vance Joseph should have used him as "the closer" to run the ball down the Chiefs' throats.   But then again, that's why they call him Vance Joseph.   

 
Royce Freeman - RB -  Broncos

Royce Freeman rushed eight times for 67 yards and one touchdown in the Broncos' Week 4 loss to the Chiefs.

He wasn't targeted in the pass game. Freeman was out-touched 14-8 by Phillip Lindsay, who gained 79 yards and also scored a one-yard touchdown. Freeman's score was more impressive from 14 yards out as he looked to be bottled up for a loss before plowing through a couple defenders on his way to the end zone. The Broncos were running the ball down the Chiefs' throat all night, but OC Bill Musgrave went away from the ground game late for some reason. Freeman has scored in three-straight games and will be a TD-dependent RB2 next week at the Jets.

Oct 1 - 11:51 PM
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Insein said:
Honestly this offense should just be Freeman gets 15-20 carries. Lindsay gets 12-15 carries and 5+ catches. They'd probably win more.
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Works for the Saints with Kamara/Ingram, and the Broncos should absolutely be approaching it the same way as a constant offensive game plan.

 
TheFanatic said:
But he's a three yard and a cloud of dust guy. He can't make something out of nothing. He runs straight ahead and falls down. 

Isn't that the narrative from the Lindsay owners?
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FIFY.

;)  

I thought both Denver backs looked great last night. Lindsay was exposed as a mediocre pass blocker a couple of times, and there’s definitely a difference between tackling Lindsay (sack of potatoes to the ground) and Freeman (drags the pile, turns 2 yards into 3, 3 into 4, etc) but as a Thunder & Lightning duo they’re terrific. 

The head scratcher to me is the Broncos insistence on trying to make Booker a thing. Last 2 mins of the 1st half, and big chunks of the 4th, it was Booker in the backfield, being his usual useless self.

the most egregious of the Booker usage was undoubtedly the PA roll-out on 4th & 1 where the Broncos had Booker in the backfield, which basically telegraphed that they absolutely, 100% weren’t going to run the ball. It took a near miracle to pick up that 1st down, and that had disaster written alllllll over it. If you’re going to fake the run on 4th & 1, put your big man back there. In the least he’d provide more resistance against the pass rush on sheer weight alone. 

I think what the broncos are doing with Lindsay & freeman, especially at altitude, is working well. It would make sense for the Broncos to get Freeman a whole series to see if he can build a head of steam, and I just don’t understand for the life of me why they wouldn’t use him to salt the games away at the end - especially when Booker is the preferred alternative. 

he’s the one RB in DEN that delivers punishing hits when tackled & defenses wear down. Lots of comparisons to Blount, but he reminds me more of Jamaal Lewis. He’s quick for a big man, but runs really strong & hits people with bad intentions.

itll be interesting to see what happens as the weather turns for the worse.  If I were a betting man, I’d say the split will even out a little between Lindsay & Freeman, while inexplicably Booker’s role will remain unchanged. 

Any way you slice it, barring a Lindsay injury, this is a RBBC where both backs can provide RB2 status on the weekly. Since Denver doesn’t seem interested in throwing to their RBs, (other than Booker, again, inexplicably because he stinks) their upside is capped in PPR a bit. 

 
A lot of similarities between Freeman and the Kerryon Johnson situation. Both big, young talented backs that would be RB1s if they could get the majority of snaps.  Both have to contend for snaps with a talented backfield mate (Riddick and Lindsay) and both lose snaps to horrible players for unknown reasons. (Blount, Booker).

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I thought both Denver backs looked great last night. Lindsay was exposed as a mediocre pass blocker a couple of times, and there’s definitely a difference between tackling Lindsay (sack of potatoes to the ground) and Freeman (drags the pile, turns 2 yards into 3, 3 into 4, etc) but as a Thunder & Lightning duo they’re terrific. 

The head scratcher to me is the Broncos insistence on trying to make Booker a thing. Last 2 mins of the 1st half, and big chunks of the 4th, it was Booker in the backfield, being his usual useless self.

the most egregious of the Booker usage was undoubtedly the PA roll-out on 4th & 1 where the Broncos had Booker in the backfield, which basically telegraphed that they absolutely, 100% weren’t going to run the ball. It took a near miracle to pick up that 1st down, and that had disaster written alllllll over it. If you’re going to fake the run on 4th & 1, put your big man back there. In the least he’d provide more resistance against the pass rush on sheer weight alone. 
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These three paragraphs were what I noticed the most. I think these are pretty good observations, especially the fourth down call that Thomas bailed the OC out on.  

 
Could you imagine the payoff Freeman would be giving owners if Lindsay didn't exist? We can't assume it would be a complete carry over to massive stats, but I think we'd be looking at him almost on a level fantasy field with Barkley. 

ETA: to clarify, redraft only. I don't see him as the same talent level as Barkley. Just weeks 1-4 fantasy stats. 

 
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Dr. Dan said:
Could you imagine the payoff Freeman would be giving owners if Lindsay didn't exist? We can't assume it would be a complete carry over to massive stats, but I think we'd be looking at him almost on a level fantasy field with Barkley. 

ETA: to clarify, redraft only. I don't see him as the same talent level as Barkley. Just weeks 1-4 fantasy stats. 
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Royce Freeman - Lindsay = Fantasy RB1.  

 
I feel like Lindsay is this year's Tarik Cohen. Only difference is there's no John Fox to not give him the ball.

 
Dr. Dan said:
Honestly, I don't see him lasting. Not at this pace. Freeman is an excellent buy low from a dynasty owner who might be disappointed. Problem is you have to pay RB2 value
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That seems like fair value since that’s what he’ll guve you this year.

and he’ll likely give you better than that next year. If not his floor is still fair value. 

To me it would 100% depend on what round pick you’d lose for retaining him. 

 
Dr. Dan said:
Could you imagine the payoff Freeman would be giving owners if Lindsay didn't exist? We can't assume it would be a complete carry over to massive stats, but I think we'd be looking at him almost on a level fantasy field with Barkley. 

ETA: to clarify, redraft only. I don't see him as the same talent level as Barkley. Just weeks 1-4 fantasy stats. 
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About 75% of what Lindsay would offer without Freeman.

 
Eh, I wouldn't rag on Lindsay too much. He's been moving the ball around mid-field to setup goalline carries for Royce Freeman.

Freeman has been fresh and ready to #### people up in the redzone. It's a good 1-2 punch.

 
I read an interesting stat after week 3 that Freeman averaged more defenders in the box than any other player with 20+ carries. Not sure if teams realize that it will be an obvious run when Freeman is in, but it was surprising to hear.

 
I think what you are really seeing is fantastic run blocking by the OL - allowing each to shine.  TBH helps Lindsay a little more with his quickness.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
If they’re smart; when the weather turns for the worst in Denver that is exactly how they’ll approach it.

but I’m thinking they may not be smart. After all, they continue to try to make Booker happen. 

https://youtu.be/Pubd-spHN-0
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I believe you may have the answer to this in your own solid observations -- I haven't seen official snap counts broken out by situational usage (i.e. by quarter) but as I was watching the game, while Booker got snaps it seemed to me he was more in for pass pro at times, and likely precisely because it was an area that Lindsay was struggling in during this tilt.

I think Freeman's TD run in the first half was impressive, and the kid has skills. But I think we should pump the brakes on both of these players' trajectories, as it's not like Freeman was lighting the world on fire prior to this game.

Both players are talented, both have roles, and if Vance Joseph is smart, he'll continue to look for the right opportunities to feature them both. Not ideal for fantasy purposes, but they are a great complimentary duo.

 
Not to take anything away from either RB but like someone else mentioned, some of the holes they had to run through were ridiculous. 

 
Looks like someone finally watched some game film & asked themselves, “wait, we’re still giving booker carries because......?”

Broncos coach Vance Joseph wants Royce Freeman to get "more touches."

"He needs more opportunities because he is playing good football," Joseph said. Freeman lit the Chiefs up for 67 yards on just eight carries, but he touched the ball just once in the fourth quarter of that game. His coach does not want that to happen again, but getting Freeman more work could mean taking some away from Phillip Lindsay, who has also been outstanding so far this season. With that kind of competition, Freeman is unlikely to escape a committee this year, but a few more touches would solidify his RB2 case.. 
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5-7 more carries a game & Freeman’s weekly floor gets a whole lot more attractive. :wub:  

 
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Broncos’ Royce Freeman primed for expanded role against Jets

Excerpt:

Royce Freeman’s final carry Monday night arrived one minute into the fourth quarter with Denver leading Kansas City by 10 points. Is it a coincidence the Broncos lost with their powerful rookie running back on the sideline? Not likely.

But fear not, Broncos Country, as coach Vance Joseph laid out a public game plan adjustment Wednesday that should surprise no one, and especially not the New York Jets on Sunday.

“I’m looking forward to getting (Freeman) more touches,” Joseph said. “He needs more opportunities because he is playing good football.”

That’s a modest description for Freeman’s first four NFL games. His 219 rushing yards rank No. 15 league-wide and are third among rookies behind only teammate Phillip Lindsay(267) and the Giants’ Saquon Barkley (260). Freeman’s three rushing touchdowns are also tied for most among those first-year running backs. And, Freeman’s 10 carries of at least 10 yards are third in the NFL behind Dallas’ Ezekiel Elliott (12) and the 49ers’ Matt Breida (11).

The hitch in Freeman’s stellar production, as noted through Denver Post game-charting against Kansas City, is his scattered carries. Freeman hit an 18-yard gain against the Chiefs and then didn’t touch the football for six more snaps. He began a third-quarter series with a 6-yard gain, but failed to record a carry the rest of the Broncos’ eight-play drive. Freeman mostly watched as Denver’s 10-point lead drained away in the fourth quarter.
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This is what happens when you rely on a backup rb. Some weeks the gameflow doesn't go your way.

:shrug:

 
Was it really gameflow? Haven't had a chance to watch (at this point rewatch via Game Pass) the game, but looks like Lindsay got over twice the carries than Freeman. How does this affect, if at all, people's feelings about Freeman's (and for that matter, Lindsay's) role? What specifically about the game dictated this split, if anything?

The positive for Freeman owners is that at least Booker didn't register a carry. 

The positive for Lindsay owners (on paper, pending specific input on the above from those who watched the game) is that he is still getting a great opportunity to carry the rock. The downside is that Booker seems to still be eating into his (and Freeman's) reception targets. 

 
Case Keenum had 51 pass attempts. Lindsay and Freeman had 17 carries.  Doesn't seem like a winning formula.

 
Vance’s pregame comments on playing him more teased me into flexing him into my lineup.  Frustration level has now reached level 9 and climbing ... 

 
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