JohnnyU
Footballguy
Something besides the heart obviously. Maybe he isn’t very good. I thought he was a good college RB.
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RB Sean Tucker, TB (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm holding for now. I probably underappreciated how bad this team would be at run blocking, and reliance on a short passing offense to move the chains. I thought running failure by White would create opportunity, but that's become a moot point as White meets the pass blocking/receiving RB needs of this offense. I'll still opt for talent on a deep dynasty bench. No other Tampa RB has shined and It only takes one or two injuries at the volatile RB position to crack the door to more opportunity. Tampa has been pretty fortunate in that regard through 7 weeks.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
In Sean Tucker’s case it’s important to remember he wasn’t cleared for any physical activity until late July. For a rookie that’s a lot of extra training he missed out on. It’s a credit to him that he made the 53-man roster and the Bucs liked him enough not to risk putting him on waivers or the practice squad.
But for him to go from RB2 down to RB4, there’s something Bowles’ coaching staff is seeing in practice that he needs further refinement on. As was the case with Zach Evans on the Rams, perhaps it’s being able to pass protect at the NFL level? It’s easy for us fantasy folks to love a player’s ability with the ball in their hand but also to forget how important and multi-faceted a RB’s role on offense is. Still need to identify and neutralize a pass rusher when the play calls for a pass. We’ve had no indication that Tucker is being slowed by health issues so I can only assume Tucker needs more refinement, whether it’s learning the playbook or blocking better. Whatever Vaughn and Edmonds are doing they’re doing it more to Bowles’ satisfaction than Tucker, and that shouldn’t be ignored.
I still think Tucker, at his best, can be the best RB on the team. But he might not be ready, and this might be one of many cases where an NFL rookie doesn’t make an immediate impact and needs a year of learning before they’re trusted on the field. That’s why I don’t fault those still holding Tucker because I don’t think it’s a talent issue but he may just need more time being coached up. As others have said it may take an injury to White for him to re-enter the conversation for 2023. All along Tucker was a hedge against White being any good, and White has at least been serviceable thanks to his pass catching abilities.
One last thing that irks me, is when people say a player is free. There is always a cost. May not be cost of acquisition, but cost of ownership. As long as you have a finite number of roster spots, you are constantly choosing a player (lottery ticket) over whatever else is available on your waiver wire. I held Tucker for a good while figuring he’s a second half play anyway, and will earn his playing time. But he’s trended in the wrong direction for my liking and I had to identify when I’m missing out on better players for one with such long odds of panning out. Know when to hold em and know when to fold em. I feel the decision is easier for those in redraft leagues (drop) and dynasty leagues with taxi squads (hold) than for those like myself in a dynasty league with relatively small benches and no taxi squad.
To me right now Tucker is still a lottery ticket but one that looks even less promising than he did before the season started. There were enough other promising dart throws available in my league that I had to move on. If Tucker is featured next week and my league mates get to him before I do, I’ll live with that, but I’m betting against that scenario playing out. If I start to see him getting play ahead of Vaughn and Edmonds, I may try to pick him back up. For now he goes on the watch list.
But for him to go from RB2 down to RB4, there’s something Bowles’ coaching staff is seeing in practice that he needs further refinement on. As was the case with Zach Evans on the Rams, perhaps it’s being able to pass protect at the NFL level? It’s easy for us fantasy folks to love a player’s ability with the ball in their hand but also to forget how important and multi-faceted a RB’s role on offense is. Still need to identify and neutralize a pass rusher when the play calls for a pass. We’ve had no indication that Tucker is being slowed by health issues so I can only assume Tucker needs more refinement, whether it’s learning the playbook or blocking better. Whatever Vaughn and Edmonds are doing they’re doing it more to Bowles’ satisfaction than Tucker, and that shouldn’t be ignored.
I still think Tucker, at his best, can be the best RB on the team. But he might not be ready, and this might be one of many cases where an NFL rookie doesn’t make an immediate impact and needs a year of learning before they’re trusted on the field. That’s why I don’t fault those still holding Tucker because I don’t think it’s a talent issue but he may just need more time being coached up. As others have said it may take an injury to White for him to re-enter the conversation for 2023. All along Tucker was a hedge against White being any good, and White has at least been serviceable thanks to his pass catching abilities.
One last thing that irks me, is when people say a player is free. There is always a cost. May not be cost of acquisition, but cost of ownership. As long as you have a finite number of roster spots, you are constantly choosing a player (lottery ticket) over whatever else is available on your waiver wire. I held Tucker for a good while figuring he’s a second half play anyway, and will earn his playing time. But he’s trended in the wrong direction for my liking and I had to identify when I’m missing out on better players for one with such long odds of panning out. Know when to hold em and know when to fold em. I feel the decision is easier for those in redraft leagues (drop) and dynasty leagues with taxi squads (hold) than for those like myself in a dynasty league with relatively small benches and no taxi squad.
To me right now Tucker is still a lottery ticket but one that looks even less promising than he did before the season started. There were enough other promising dart throws available in my league that I had to move on. If Tucker is featured next week and my league mates get to him before I do, I’ll live with that, but I’m betting against that scenario playing out. If I start to see him getting play ahead of Vaughn and Edmonds, I may try to pick him back up. For now he goes on the watch list.
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zamboni
Footballguy
Not sure we can say that - neither are good runners themselves but coaches often look for more stability and pass blocking - not sure how Tucker fares there versus Edmonds/Vaughn.
Rookiefever
Footballguy
Lol. I was for sure he was going to be my steal of the draft. Sooo good in college…You just had to bring him up
Lansdowne
Footballguy
1. Kenneth Gainwell
Easiest choice. If Swift gets hurt again I think Gainwell stands to benefit the most as the current RB2.
2. Zach Evans
I still think he’ll get starter’s reps before the season’s up, and you’ll want to have him when he does. For now McVay is doing everything in his power to not have to use him on gameday.
3. Chris Rodriguez
Trending upward, already starting to take some of Robinson’s carries. Power back who’s hard to take down.
4. Sean Tucker
Would’ve been #1 on this list prior to Week 1. Didn’t do enough to force a timeshare and now is 4th on the depth chart. I still like him but wonder why the Bucs don’t seem to.
5. Jordan Mason
I personally think he’s a replacement level RB, but there’s value in the 49ers offense and he’s looked solid when given opportunities. Worth nothing until CMC gets injured.
6. Isaiah Spiller
I like his game, even if he is a bit slow as a runner. Never seized the opportunity when Ekeler was out, and is still behind an underwhelming Kelley. Might just be another college star who doesn’t pan out in the pros.
7. Chase Brown
I’ll admit I know very little of him, but he’s been a non-factor and is on IR. Probably not happening for him, I’d expect the Bengals to find another successor to Mixon.
8. Ty Chandler
Probably best suited as a change of pace back. Only hope is that neither Mattison or Akers are anything special in their own right. Maybe gets another try if one of them goes down.
9. Israel Abanikandi
Seems to be a popular prospect in dynasty circles. What a tough landing spot for him though. There’s no path to RB1 for him on the Jets without injury to Breece Hall.
10. Tyrion Davis-Price
Only has value if all 3 RB’s ahead of him are injured at the same time. Wouldn’t bother otherwise.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I think Abanikandi could be better than all of them, but in the worst spot. I don’t think Gainwell will ever be a RB1, but would get more work if /when Swift gets dinged. Mason looks decent at times, but may not be relevant until free agency, if ever. You probably ranked Evans too high. He doesn’t seem to be liked by his coaches, go back to college. Lost his job at two colleges. Tucker is interesting, but his coach doesn’t seem impressed. Chris Rodriguez has a chance if things fall right. Spiller hasn’t shown much and may never. Brown is a complete unknown for me. Not sure how to evaluate him. Chandler is buried. Davis-Price doesn’t have a snowball chance in hell.
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zamboni
Footballguy
I think if Swift goes down, we probably see a revival of Penny.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Penny isn’t worth a quarter.
zamboni
Footballguy
He might make it through the first quarter before getting hurt in the second.
dmac37
Footballguy
I have been a Penny guy since the beginning but what little I have seen this year he looked slow and cooked.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
I’m out on Evans (for now) after yet another healthy inactive. I haven’t been very good at these lotto tickets so far lol (Sean Tucker, Justyn Ross, Ty Chandler, now Zach Evans)
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Will monitor but keeping expectations low with White playing well and the Titans run D being tough.Tuckerrrr issss activvvve
eighsse2
Footballguy
Yeah definitely low. Was a little sarcastic with my enthusiasm, but as a dynasty owner, just very good to see him activated. Had too much of a Trey Sermon feel so far.Will monitor but keeping expectations low with White playing well and the Titans run D being tough.Tuckerrrr issss activvvve
He's a must-start in all DodecaFlexa leagues though.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Edmonds has a dead cap of only $825K so cutting him wouldn't be a problem, with of course Tucker having even less financial impact. Irving should be safe and it'll come down to Edmonds vs. Tucker, with Edmonds the clear front-runner.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I think he likely makes the roster again, but it will take an injury for him to have an impact.
I felt like he was out of game shape for whatever reason early in the pre-season. Maybe a full off-season will have him ready to go.
Tampa invested in their interior offensive line so they seem fairly determined to improve the running game.
I’d honestly like to see him take some of the early down work from White. He’s the biggest back on the team, and I don’t believe White’s strengths are between the tackles runs.
I felt like he was out of game shape for whatever reason early in the pre-season. Maybe a full off-season will have him ready to go.
Tampa invested in their interior offensive line so they seem fairly determined to improve the running game.
I’d honestly like to see him take some of the early down work from White. He’s the biggest back on the team, and I don’t believe White’s strengths are between the tackles runs.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Looked big, fast, and shifty. Especially on his 27 yard explosive.
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
I picked him up in my dynasty (dropped Eric Gray). Gray was a speculative add after I thought Tyrone Tracy's season ended last week. This guy looks big and fast. The whole Bucky Irving situation gives me pause and if I had my chance of picking up Bucky, I would over Tucker, but he wasn't available on my waivers.
Rachaad White's 3.6 and 3.7 YPC aren't insurmountable obstacles. That's Ezekiel Elliot levels of bad (3.5, 3.8 YPC last two seasons). I also understand that this offensive line was designed to pass block to protect Tom Brady from a few years ago and is still molded that way, the line's strength is pass blocking. It's more of a speculative add, but White's due to be a Free Agent after next year and this guy looks big and fast.
I know the fantasy community was super high on him last year and it's possible that everyone was just 1 year early. He looks big and fast to me. I don't see why he couldn't do what White is doing given the opportunity. They've got this guy returning kicks which is surprising to me, but just goes to show you the kind of juice the Buccanneers thinks he has because usually you put your most explosive, slash guy back there. So it gives me at least some insight of knowing that the coaching staff is acknowledging his burst. If he does well in that role, it could lead to him seeing some carries.
Just seeing more upside than rostering Eric Gray is probably the main take away.
Rachaad White's 3.6 and 3.7 YPC aren't insurmountable obstacles. That's Ezekiel Elliot levels of bad (3.5, 3.8 YPC last two seasons). I also understand that this offensive line was designed to pass block to protect Tom Brady from a few years ago and is still molded that way, the line's strength is pass blocking. It's more of a speculative add, but White's due to be a Free Agent after next year and this guy looks big and fast.
I know the fantasy community was super high on him last year and it's possible that everyone was just 1 year early. He looks big and fast to me. I don't see why he couldn't do what White is doing given the opportunity. They've got this guy returning kicks which is surprising to me, but just goes to show you the kind of juice the Buccanneers thinks he has because usually you put your most explosive, slash guy back there. So it gives me at least some insight of knowing that the coaching staff is acknowledging his burst. If he does well in that role, it could lead to him seeing some carries.
Just seeing more upside than rostering Eric Gray is probably the main take away.
Rachaad White doesn't get enough credit as an all-around solid 3-down RB. People see his YPC and dismiss him. If you dig just a little bit, you will see he has had the highest YPC of all TB RB's in each of the last 2 seasons, as crappy as it looks. No TB RB is a threat to Rachaad this year, and his backups will be fighting for scraps.
Bucky will be the Sean Tucker of this year. Steamed up through the off-season and people will sleep on White again and be surprised when he has another 1500 yard season.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Completely agree. I was a little shocked to see this topic bumped.
Hey, I carried RoJo 2 years too long. I get it. Love dies hard.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Bucky and Tucker both look great so far in preseason. BIG reason for that is Graham Barton is pancaking the crap out of people every play he’s in the game. Other young interior linemen are also playing well.
White’s efficiency numbers are going way UP in 2024.
I do think Tucker makes this team easily now and could carve out a role. He’s definitely a solid dynasty stash and could make a big impact if there’s an injury.
White’s efficiency numbers are going way UP in 2024.
I do think Tucker makes this team easily now and could carve out a role. He’s definitely a solid dynasty stash and could make a big impact if there’s an injury.
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
I actually did a little digging after you prompted me to do such and here's what I found:
2023:
Rachaad White 272 Carries 3.6 YPC
Chase Edmonds 49 Carries 3.6 YPC
Ke'Shawn Vaughn 24 Carries 1.8 YPC
Sean Tucker 15 Carries 1.5 YPC
So for last season, technically Chase Edmonds tied Rachaad White for the highest YPC. As for Ke'Shawn Vaughn, he's always kind of stunk but I assume his YPC would be higher with more touches as he had a 3.5 YPC the year before. Sean Tucker had a 1.5 YPC average but it was only on 15 carries and since this is a thread about him, I think it would be silly to try and compare his YPC with White. It's too small of a sample size. Plus, common sense tells us that Tucker isn't a 1.5 YPC guy because well, nobody is a 1.5 YPC guy, lol. Even a bad RB averages at least 3.0 YPC. That looks to be a statistical outlier and a good example of why we throw certain stats away. I'm not saying that Sean Tucker would have a comparable YPC as Rachaad White, what I'm saying is that we know his actual YPC isn't 1.5.
TLDR: White averaged the same YPC as the RB (Chase Edmonds) with the next highest amount of carries, the other two RB didn't log enough carries individually to be statistically relevant.
2022:
Leonard Fournette 189 Carries 3.5 YPC
Rachaad White 129 Carries 3.7 YPC
Ke'Shawn Vaughn 17 Carries 3.5 YPC
Giovanni Bernard 8 Carries 3.5 YPC
So definitely, Rachaad White had the highest YPC of this RB group (by 0.2 yards). But it's probably important to note that 2 of the 3 guys he had a high YPC than were no longer in the league the following year (Fournette & Bernard) and Vaughn probably won't be on an active roster this upcoming season. I think it would be selling Sean Tucker short to compare him to those guys, his situation is vastly different than a couple of journeyman with one foot out the door.
With that said, I do think that Rachaad White has appeal as a non-sexy volume runner, but your statement was a little misleading. After a little digging, I discovered that that Rachaad White had the highest YPC amongst a couple of guys who were in their final season in 2022 and tied with Chase Edmonds from last year. The reason I think there is potential with Sean Tucker is because:
1.) Sean Tucker was expected to be a 2nd - 4th Round Pick by many people before his heart condition caused him to go undrafted.
2.) Runningbacks get hurt, especially ones who see high volume like Rachaad White (he had the 5th most touches in the league at RB last season).
3.) Sean Tucker hasn't really had opportunity to prove himself. 15 carries is meaningless to me, he might as well have 0.
4.) Rachaad White will be a free agent after the 2025 season, this would be around the time you would be grooming his replacement.
5.) The NFL stands for "not for long".
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
I just want to say thank you for the amount of effort it took to read and respond to my post. I know how long it took to type mine and while I am not convinced enough to change my position, I do want to acknowledge the level of effort you put in here to support your argument. It is impressive.
Some could be nitpicked further, but I think everybody involved has a good understanding of the situation and we both probably shouldn't spend anymore time worrying about a guy who is fighting for the RB2 spot for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Message sent loud and clear. Respect. I hope you have a special day today. Please keep up this level of effort, it will only bring you great things in life as I'm sure it already has.
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First off, great discussion. But is Sean Tucker fighting for the RB2 spot, or is he fighting for the RB3 spot? Only Ourlads has him ahead of Chase Edmonds currently, but every other site I saw (FBG, fftoolbox, FantasyPros, ESPN, CBS Sports, RotoWire, Pro Football Network, Yahoo, and FullTime Fantasy) has him RB4. Either way though, for 2024, I think every TB RB not named Rachaad is not a startable fantasy asset as long as he is active. I do think Sean Tucker makes the team, but at the end of the season, we will likely be saying the same thing as many said about 2023 - Rachaad was only RB4 because of his volume. And too many believe that's a bad thing. Tell that to Joe Mixon. I think Rachaad makes the perfect RB2 and his ADP puts him at the end of round 3/beginning of round 4. About as safe as you can get volume-wise. Even if he misses a game or two, he will not finish lower than a RB2.
I think I kinda derailed the Tucker thread, sorry.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Tucker will make the team. Edmonds got hurt on the first day of training camp and hasn’t practiced since.
Rachaad White is going to have a big year. This line is much better. Coen’s scheme is better.
Without injury Irving nor Tucker will be legit fantasy assets. If White gets hurt though I think they both will be.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Here's my two cents on the matter:
If Edmonds was healthy he'd be RB3 and Tucker RB4. They'd want a veteran presence in the RB room. As things stand, Edmonds is on the outside looking in as he's missed almost a month of practice due to injury. My guess is they will do some injury settlement with Edmonds and release him, and invite him back once he's healthy (or IR). Tucker has been showing his value not only in the running game but also on special teams as part of the kick return unit.
White as RB1 is written in ink, and I think Irving as RB2 is written in pencil. As long as Irving continues to impress he should retain his role. I question White's volume being at the level it was last year because I think Irving as well as this year's version of Tucker are upgrades over what was available to them last year. Don't forget the improvement on the offensive line specifically with Graham Barton. So while I think White's total touches may drop a bit, he should in theory be more efficient with better lanes to run through. I think all three RB's are capable.
The way I see it, Tucker is the best runner out of this group, while White is by far the best receiver (to be expected from a converted WR). Irving is the happy medium between those two. None of it matters only because as long as he's healthy I expect White to get the majority of the work, and I don't expect either Irving or Tucker to have standalone value without an injury or suspension to White. But between Irving and Tucker, I like Tucker more, he's bigger and he's got more burst. Tucker was DND by the NFL because of the heart problem but has since been cleared. I'm not holding his UDFA status against him because it wasn't for talent reasons that he went undrafted. It's that there was uncertainty at the time if he'd ever be able to play football again. I'm not going to knock White, I'm just going to say if Tucker is given a real chance to run away with the gig, I like his chances. I believe in the talent, but he's just a lottery ticket at this time.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
I really like Tucker as an under the radar dynasty add. He gets off the line quickly, he's a strong runner with great instincts. I think this kid is the real deal. I'm stashing him wherever possible.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I seem to remember people thinking he was the real deal last year. Heard decent things this offseason, but he has 15 career carries for 21 yards. So there is that.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Not really given the opportunity as of yet, he's definitely an end of the roster lotto ticket. 5.7 ypc during the pre season, and he looks the part, imo.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
He got off to bad start. He was diagnosed with a rare congenital heart defect before the draft, which led to some teams being hesitant to draft him. Maybe he’s ready to show something.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Best time to add a guy is before he’s expensive. Very smart of you. Tucker has looked strong this off-season.
He doesn’t have a direct line to touches right now, but all it takes is an opportunity.
massraider
Footballguy
Once Irving got there, and looked good, I kinda lost any enthusiasm. He's gonna get the touches I want if White goes down. I just traded Tucker in dynasty for a late round rookie draft upgrade next year. I need the roster spot
Lansdowne
Footballguy
I'm still high on Tucker but I needed the roster space so I had to cut him (which means he'll blow up and be a fantasy stud because that's what happens). I love his chances if he gets the opportunity. It's just I don't like the odds of the opportunity presenting itself any time soon. If White were to get injured I feel like Irving will get first crack, with Tucker spelling him. If Irving flops then we see Tucker take it from there. But despite the nature of the position, White has a clean injury history (never missed a game to injury), so you're betting on long odds of the opportunity happening. I'd be more willing to hold if Irving weren't blocking the path to RB2, even though I like Tucker more. What I like and what the Bucs coaching staff likes are two different things, and only their opinion matters.
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