RB/WR Cordarrelle Patterson, PIT (1 Viewer)

[*****]

He may have been the only player in the league last year to score three ways (via receiving, rushing and kick return)

Tavon Austin did it too.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Good catch.

Regarding the other redraft comparison thread, my left brain says Harvin, the right brain Patterson.

Maybe I should get separate leagues for each hemisphere.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Good catch.

Regarding the other redraft comparison thread, my left brain says Harvin, the right brain Patterson.

Maybe I should get separate leagues for each hemisphere.

Until Harvin can prove he can stay healthy id go with Patterson

 

[Monsters of the Midway]

I was working under the assumption that the weather in Minny's new stadium would be the same as in Green Bay. They obviously have not trouble scoring, though Rodgers and co. would score anywhere. At any rate I thought of it as pretty neutral.

 

[Ghost Rider]

It's hard not to be impressed with Patterson's speed and quickness, and his 9 TDs combined last year really stand out, but let's remember that he still only had 469 receiving yards last year, and 627 rushing and receiving combined, so he has a lot of work to do to become an upper echelon WR. This assumption that he'll make a massive leap this year might be a tad premature. I just worry he'll be overvalued this year.

 

[*****]

I agree. Tavon Austin gets none of Patterson level hype and the main distinction between the two is size. This less an endorsement of Austin than a criticism of the runaway hype for CP.

 

[tdmills]

I agree. Tavon Austin gets none of Patterson level hype and the main distinction between the two is size. This less an endorsement of Austin than a criticism of the runaway hype for CP.

6 inches and 44 pounds is a lot though. Given all of that, Patterson is still better at making defenders miss.

 

[jurb26]

I agree. Tavon Austin gets none of Patterson level hype and the main distinction between the two is size. This less an endorsement of Austin than a criticism of the runaway hype for CP.

6 inches and 44 pounds is a lot though. Given all of that, Patterson is still better at making defenders miss.

And he has better hands.

 

[SproutDaddy]

I agree. Tavon Austin gets none of Patterson level hype and the main distinction between the two is size. This less an endorsement of Austin than a criticism of the runaway hype for CP.

Austin isn't the player Patterson is. He was way overdrafted.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I agree. Tavon Austin gets none of Patterson level hype and the main distinction between the two is size. This less an endorsement of Austin than a criticism of the runaway hype for CP.

6 inches and 44 pounds is a lot though. Given all of that, Patterson is still better at making defenders miss.

And he has better hands.

He had 6 drops in the first five weeks, and I think 1 drop in the last two months.

It was discussed before, he did have lower volume in his last two months, but it was something like a 5% drop rate (17 receptions and one drop). If his hands were as faulty in the last two months, we might have expected a closer percentage to that of the first five games, even on lower volume.

But agree that Patterson is a better prospect.

 

[*****]

As I said, not an endorsement of Austin--just a barometer of how incredibly unreserved the CP hype is when another player had a comparable season and has virtually no hype at all.

 

[homer911]

Austin hype had died alot due to the offense the rams are in.

Alot of people thought the rams were going to a wide open spread last year with how they drafted and them bringing in Cooks aswell as have Bradford who thrived in that offense in college.

They have gone in the opposite direction.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Austin hype had died alot due to the offense the rams are in.

Alot of people thought the rams were going to a wide open spread last year with how they drafted and them bringing in Cooks aswell as have Bradford who thrived in that offense in college.

They have gone in the opposite direction.

STL ran the ball about 45% of the time in 2013. If that gets nudged up closer to 50%, in the neighborhood of division rivals and league leading SEA and SF, that 5% difference/reduction in passing might only represent a few hundred passing yards less available to the WR/TEs.

Austin and Cook look the most locked in to a defined role, imo. From there, they need to find a few more WR contributors from among Britt, Givens, Bailey and Quick. Britt should be one of them if he is right physically (he flashed some old burst in OTAs). With Bailey's suspension, the incumbent Givens appears to have an inside track as a starter. If either Britt or Givens stumble, Bailey was starting to come on at the end of last year. You could make a case he is the best route runner and has the best hands on the team. Quick has been slow to develop and a general disappointment, but has impressive physical tools if the light comes on in his third year.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Really good writeup on Patterson once he started getting involved - http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-cordarrelle-patterson-and-a-developing-story.html

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Coach Mike Zimmer said Cordarrelle Patterson will continue to return kickoffs despite his increased offensive role.
Patterson was the best kick returner in the NFL last season. "We want our best players to get their hands on the ball as much as possible," Zimmer said. "We’re not going to keep him from returning kicks because he is such a dangerous weapon there." Zimmer suggested the jury remains out on whether Patterson will become an equally dynamic wide receiver. "For him to take the next step," Zimmer said, "we’re going to have to see how he gets off a jam and the things that people will try to do to take him away."

Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

 

[Bob Magaw]

Really good writeup on Patterson once he started getting involved - http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-cordarrelle-patterson-and-a-developing-story.html

Thanks,

that was one of the best articles I've read this year.

Highlights

1) Patterson has the kind of open field running skills that he could have been an All Pro RB, if he had been developed at that position.

2) His adjustments at the catch point and ball skills on passes thrown downfield are exceptional (much better than advertised).

3) He is one of the best candidates to be the next great young WR in the league.

 

[jurb26]

2) His adjustments at the catch point and ball skills on passes thrown downfield are exceptional (much better than advertised).

I've been trying to tell people this for over a year. People who think he can't transition into a down field threat are going to be surprised.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

2) His adjustments at the catch point and ball skills on passes thrown downfield are exceptional (much better than advertised).

I've been trying to tell people this for over a year. People who think he can't transition into a down field threat are going to be surprised.

It's not the "ball skills" people are concerned about. It's the route running and the QBs.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

so what rd do you jump on this guy? You know someone at your draft is thinking they have to grab him fairly early

 

[BigSteelThrill]

so what rd do you jump on this guy? You know someone at your draft is thinking they have to grab him fairly early

He has recently blown past...

Fitzgerald

Welker

AJohnson

Harvin

Crabtree

RWhite

DJackson

... so making prediction now is going to be a bit unsure.

He is locked into the start/mid of the 4th round in 12 teamers.

If you say you want him in round 4, you may not get him.

 

[False Start]

so what rd do you jump on this guy? You know someone at your draft is thinking they have to grab him fairly early

He has recently blown past...

Fitzgerald

Welker

AJohnson

Harvin

Crabtree

RWhite

DJackson

... so making prediction now is going to be a bit unsure.

He is locked into the start/mid of the 4th round in 12 teamers.

If you say you want him in round 4, you may not get him.

In redraft I would take most listed over Patterson, dynasty I want Patterson, redraft I want those guys who have done it before and still can do it.

 

[Bob Magaw]

2) His adjustments at the catch point and ball skills on passes thrown downfield are exceptional (much better than advertised).

I've been trying to tell people this for over a year. People who think he can't transition into a down field threat are going to be surprised.

It was clear in training camp last year that in his case, being an athletic prodigy in general translated to being a natural hands catcher specifically, and the ability to effortlessly catch it away from his frame.The article noted he is still raw as a route runner, but also that he did have far more route diversity than just screens and fly patterns, and showed signs of development as the season progressed. Unfortunately, there were times he was open and the QB failed to deliver the ball accurately, or target him at all. If you like Bridgewater, that is another cause for an optimistic future projection.

The article isn't ideal for the TL/DR set, but it has a lot of skill set and game detail, illustrated with route running charts, stills and video.

 

[Biabreakable]

Patterson looks stronger than last season

 

[Yenrub]

I read someplace today that they plan on him remaining as the kick returner

 

[Ted Mullins]

Think I already said this, but I do find Jennings and his late ADP an attractive hedge if you take Patterson in redraft. Jennings is cheap right now and it seems like Turner's offense is not big on spreading it around - someone should flourish.

 

[The Man With No Name]

It's not the "ball skills" people are concerned about. It's the route running and the QBs.

Worse quarterbacks than Campbell and Weeden? I doubt that

 

[Bob Magaw]

Patterson looks stronger than last season

Just for perspective, Peterson is listed at 6'1", 217 lbs. and Patterson at 6'2", 220 lbs., so while the weight may not be distributed exactly the same, I don't think DBs like to see either of their size/speed/athleticism combinations in the open field.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

It's not the "ball skills" people are concerned about. It's the route running and the QBs.

Worse quarterbacks than Campbell and Weeden? I doubt that

Is your only basis for this Norv Turner? Poor, poor comparison.

 

[Grahamburn]

so what rd do you jump on this guy? You know someone at your draft is thinking they have to grab him fairly early

He has recently blown past...

Fitzgerald

Welker

AJohnson

Harvin

Crabtree

RWhite

DJackson

... so making prediction now is going to be a bit unsure.

He is locked into the start/mid of the 4th round in 12 teamers.

If you say you want him in round 4, you may not get him.

So you basically have to draft this guy like he's an absolute lock for 1,100 and 7. Big ceiling, enormous floor.

 

[The Man With No Name]

It's not the "ball skills" people are concerned about. It's the route running and the QBs.

Worse quarterbacks than Campbell and Weeden? I doubt that

Is your only basis for this Norv Turner? Poor, poor comparison.

You're saying one of the two things you see working against him are his quarterbacks. Right? Right. Campbell and Weeden were awful last season. 76.9 and 70.3 qb rating. Cassell was 81.6 , Ponder was 77.9 and there is no reason they shouldn't improve on that with Turner. The number of targets Patterson gets is what will or won't make him a top 20 wr. That is the main thing in my opinion because the talent is there.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

It's not the "ball skills" people are concerned about. It's the route running and the QBs.

Worse quarterbacks than Campbell and Weeden? I doubt that

Is your only basis for this Norv Turner? Poor, poor comparison.

You're saying one of the two things you see working against him are his quarterbacks. Right? Right. Campbell and Weeden were awful last season. 76.9 and 70.3 qb rating. Cassell was 81.6 , Ponder was 77.9 and there is no reason they shouldn't improve on that with Turner. The number of targets Patterson gets is what will or won't make him a top 20 wr. That is the main thing in my opinion because the talent is there.

The Gordon comparison is a bad one. Different skill sets, first of all.

The QB situation, I guess, you could call equally bad, but those guys in Cleveland were good at chucking it. Cassel is NOT. He is a dunk and dunk game manager.

Third, you conveniently left out the route running weakness. Gordon is a supremely gifted and intelligent route runner. Patterson has shown to be a novice thus far.

Last, QB rating is perhaps the most useless stat in sports. No bearing on the discussion whatsoever.

 

[The Man With No Name]

It's not the "ball skills" people are concerned about. It's the route running and the QBs.

Worse quarterbacks than Campbell and Weeden? I doubt that

Is your only basis for this Norv Turner? Poor, poor comparison.

You're saying one of the two things you see working against him are his quarterbacks. Right? Right. Campbell and Weeden were awful last season. 76.9 and 70.3 qb rating. Cassell was 81.6 , Ponder was 77.9 and there is no reason they shouldn't improve on that with Turner. The number of targets Patterson gets is what will or won't make him a top 20 wr. That is the main thing in my opinion because the talent is there.

The Gordon comparison is a bad one. Different skill sets, first of all.

The QB situation, I guess, you could call equally bad, but those guys in Cleveland were good at chucking it. Cassel is NOT. He is a dunk and dunk game manager.

Third, you conveniently left out the route running weakness. Gordon is a supremely gifted and intelligent route runner. Patterson has shown to be a novice thus far.

Last, QB rating is perhaps the most useless stat in sports. No bearing on the discussion whatsoever.

I never mentioned Gordon. And since you did, before last season Gordon wasn't considered a good route runner. He improved just like many young wide receivers do.

If CP can't run routes, he probably won't get the targets, which is what I referred to.

 

[-jb-]

Apologies, I have not read all 20 pages, but this board seems to have a boner for Patterson (never noticed how many double consonants the dude has in his name), while other boards like Floyd.

Vitals:

PPR ADP - Patterson WR21, Floyd WR22

Reg ADP - Patterson WR20, Floyd WR23

Which side do you fall on?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

so what rd do you jump on this guy? You know someone at your draft is thinking they have to grab him fairly early

He has recently blown past...

Fitzgerald

Welker

AJohnson

Harvin

Crabtree

RWhite

DJackson

... so making prediction now is going to be a bit unsure.

He is locked into the start/mid of the 4th round in 12 teamers.

If you say you want him in round 4, you may not get him.

So you basically have to draft this guy like he's an absolute lock for 1,100 and 7. Big ceiling, enormous floor.

Why do you have to draft him like he's a lock for 1100/7? In a typical year, more than half the players in rounds 3/4 are busts anyway. It's a pretty good spot to take a swing for the fences. Why not make that 50/50 proposition a one that could win you your league instead of one that could net you a solid WR2?

Patterson is exactly the kind of guy that can win you your league. When you look at fantasy championship teams they typically are teams that have several elite performers that were obtained at significantly lower market value. It's rare to see a fantasy champion built of a bunch of solid players that are each middle of the pack or above average at their position (above average or average WR2, above average or average RB2, etc).

What are the chances that guys like Roddy White, DeSean Jackson, or Michael Crabtree give you that? And I'd argue that they have a pretty heavy floor themselves. Larry Fitzgerald's floor is easy to spot since he's been standing on it for two years now and I think it's a far more likely outcome than some huge bounce back, especially when most are projecting him to lose targets to Floyd this year. And speaking of Floyd, what are the chances that he blows up into a 1400/10 guy this year in Arizona when even Larry Fitzgerald hasn't been able to approach those numbers lately?

I'd take Patterson, a guy that could give you top 5 WR numbers from your WR2 spot, over all of those guys. And with his ability to score in multiple ways you could easily argue that his floor is higher than many of those guys who are susceptible to a mere receiving slump completely shutting them down.

 

[12punch]

Apologies, I have not read all 20 pages, but this board seems to have a boner for Patterson (never noticed how many double consonants the dude has in his name),

uh....1?

 

[-jb-]

Apologies, I have not read all 20 pages, but this board seems to have a boner for Patterson (never noticed how many double consonants the dude has in his name),

uh....1?

uh...3.CordaRReLLe PaTTerson

 

[12punch]

Apologies, I have not read all 20 pages, but this board seems to have a boner for Patterson (never noticed how many double consonants the dude has in his name),

uh....1?

uh...3.CordaRReLLe PaTTerson

I'm not counting his first name

 

[-jb-]

Apologies, I have not read all 20 pages, but this board seems to have a boner for Patterson (never noticed how many double consonants the dude has in his name),

uh....1?

uh...3.CordaRReLLe PaTTerson

I'm not counting his first name

You didn't make the observation, so neener neener.

 

[12punch]

anyway, I already got suckered in on malcolm floyd when jackson left town -- never again.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

It's not the "ball skills" people are concerned about. It's the route running and the QBs.

Worse quarterbacks than Campbell and Weeden? I doubt that

Is your only basis for this Norv Turner? Poor, poor comparison.

You're saying one of the two things you see working against him are his quarterbacks. Right? Right. Campbell and Weeden were awful last season. 76.9 and 70.3 qb rating. Cassell was 81.6 , Ponder was 77.9 and there is no reason they shouldn't improve on that with Turner. The number of targets Patterson gets is what will or won't make him a top 20 wr. That is the main thing in my opinion because the talent is there.

The Gordon comparison is a bad one. Different skill sets, first of all.The QB situation, I guess, you could call equally bad, but those guys in Cleveland were good at chucking it. Cassel is NOT. He is a dunk and dunk game manager.

Third, you conveniently left out the route running weakness. Gordon is a supremely gifted and intelligent route runner. Patterson has shown to be a novice thus far.

Last, QB rating is perhaps the most useless stat in sports. No bearing on the discussion whatsoever.

I never mentioned Gordon. And since you did, before last season Gordon wasn't considered a good route runner. He improved just like many young wide receivers do.If CP can't run routes, he probably won't get the targets, which is what I referred to.

Really? You are going to come in here playing this game? OK. What do Campbell and Cassel have to do with Patterson, since you DID bring them up?

And you might want to do a little research. Gordon was a fabulous route runner even at Baylor. Check the Gordon thread for a video breakdown on one of the links.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

so what rd do you jump on this guy? You know someone at your draft is thinking they have to grab him fairly early

He has recently blown past...

Fitzgerald

Welker

AJohnson

Harvin

Crabtree

RWhite

DJackson

... so making prediction now is going to be a bit unsure.

He is locked into the start/mid of the 4th round in 12 teamers.

If you say you want him in round 4, you may not get him.

So you basically have to draft this guy like he's an absolute lock for 1,100 and 7. Big ceiling, enormous floor.

Why do you have to draft him like he's a lock for 1100/7? In a typical year, more than half the players in rounds 3/4 are busts anyway. It's a pretty good spot to take a swing for the fences. Why not make that 50/50 proposition a one that could win you your league instead of one that could net you a solid WR2?

Patterson is exactly the kind of guy that can win you your league. When you look at fantasy championship teams they typically are teams that have several elite performers that were obtained at significantly lower market value. It's rare to see a fantasy champion built of a bunch of solid players that are each middle of the pack or above average at their position (above average or average WR2, above average or average RB2, etc).

What are the chances that guys like Roddy White, DeSean Jackson, or Michael Crabtree give you that? And I'd argue that they have a pretty heavy floor themselves. Larry Fitzgerald's floor is easy to spot since he's been standing on it for two years now and I think it's a far more likely outcome than some huge bounce back, especially when most are projecting him to lose targets to Floyd this year. And speaking of Floyd, what are the chances that he blows up into a 1400/10 guy this year in Arizona when even Larry Fitzgerald hasn't been able to approach those numbers lately?

I'd take Patterson, a guy that could give you top 5 WR numbers from your WR2 spot, over all of those guys. And with his ability to score in multiple ways you could easily argue that his floor is higher than many of those guys who are susceptible to a mere receiving slump completely shutting them down.

The problem is you can't get Patterson below market value. And are we really expecting potential top 5 numbers?

 

[The Man With No Name]

I did. Numerous articles from last year about how his route running wasn't as good as it should be*. Cassell was and could be his qb this year. Anyway, drop it. This thread is about Patterson. Point is, CP may or may not "break out" this season. I haven't predicted anything. Some are talking him up like he's already a top wide receiver and I think they are going overboard with their 2014 predictions. Wouldn't surprise me if he eventually became a top 12, but not this year.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1254134-full-scouting-report-for-nfl-supplemental-draft-prospect-josh-gordon

typed that in from just before before he was drafted, not sure if it will work.

*I would link some of them from last year but can't copy/paste on this computer for some unknown reason.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

so what rd do you jump on this guy? You know someone at your draft is thinking they have to grab him fairly early

He has recently blown past...

Fitzgerald

Welker

AJohnson

Harvin

Crabtree

RWhite

DJackson

... so making prediction now is going to be a bit unsure.

He is locked into the start/mid of the 4th round in 12 teamers.

If you say you want him in round 4, you may not get him.

So you basically have to draft this guy like he's an absolute lock for 1,100 and 7. Big ceiling, enormous floor.

Why do you have to draft him like he's a lock for 1100/7? In a typical year, more than half the players in rounds 3/4 are busts anyway. It's a pretty good spot to take a swing for the fences. Why not make that 50/50 proposition a one that could win you your league instead of one that could net you a solid WR2?

Patterson is exactly the kind of guy that can win you your league. When you look at fantasy championship teams they typically are teams that have several elite performers that were obtained at significantly lower market value. It's rare to see a fantasy champion built of a bunch of solid players that are each middle of the pack or above average at their position (above average or average WR2, above average or average RB2, etc).

What are the chances that guys like Roddy White, DeSean Jackson, or Michael Crabtree give you that? And I'd argue that they have a pretty heavy floor themselves. Larry Fitzgerald's floor is easy to spot since he's been standing on it for two years now and I think it's a far more likely outcome than some huge bounce back, especially when most are projecting him to lose targets to Floyd this year. And speaking of Floyd, what are the chances that he blows up into a 1400/10 guy this year in Arizona when even Larry Fitzgerald hasn't been able to approach those numbers lately?

I'd take Patterson, a guy that could give you top 5 WR numbers from your WR2 spot, over all of those guys. And with his ability to score in multiple ways you could easily argue that his floor is higher than many of those guys who are susceptible to a mere receiving slump completely shutting them down.

The problem is you can't get Patterson below market value. And are we really expecting potential top 5 numbers?

Lower market value was poorly worded on my part. What I intended to say is guys who's finish significantly outperforms their market value.

Patterson is WR24 in FBG's rankings. I think he has a very good chance of significantly outperforming that. As to whether or not we're expecting top 5 numbers, of course we're not expecting it but it is certainly a possibility. His large ceiling is what makes him such an intriguing pick.

 

[Shutout]

In general, I think Patterson is limited until a true top QB shows up under center. I'm sure some of the people reading this will say "well what about this guy and what he did", etc, but my point is really if/when it occurs without a top QB, it is clearly the atypical and not the norm.

When Calvin came out. When Fitz came out. When Demarius Thomas started. All these guys that we see as the elite, they clearly showed good stuff but none of them had their truly dynamic years (like what is being talked about as Patterson's potential here) until they got a clear-to-see top QB.

It's probably not a true comparable but look at Reggie Wayne and how good (not great like these guys, but very very good) he was with Peyton.. THen they had that turd year with Painter & co. And then Luck, even as rookie, but with obvious top talent comes in and he escalates again. That, to me, is a clear example of how talent can be talent but it all starts and ends with the QB. You just can't overlook that.

 

[Grahamburn]

In general, I think Patterson is limited until a true top QB shows up under center. I'm sure some of the people reading this will say "well what about this guy and what he did", etc, but my point is really if/when it occurs without a top QB, it is clearly the atypical and not the norm.

When Calvin came out. When Fitz came out. When Demarius Thomas started. All these guys that we see as the elite, they clearly showed good stuff but none of them had their truly dynamic years (like what is being talked about as Patterson's potential here) until they got a clear-to-see top QB.

It's probably not a true comparable but look at Reggie Wayne and how good (not great like these guys, but very very good) he was with Peyton.. THen they had that turd year with Painter & co. And then Luck, even as rookie, but with obvious top talent comes in and he escalates again. That, to me, is a clear example of how talent can be talent but it all starts and ends with the QB. You just can't overlook that.

Calvin was WR2 in his second year (2008) with Kitna, Culpepper, and Dan Orlovsky. He was going in rounds 4 or 5 that year after an up and down rookie season. Very similar to Patterson this year.

So, in a way, I agree with FreeBagel's post in response to mine regarding swinging for the fence to get the guy who can potentially outperform his ADP by a mile. I'm just not sure yet if CP has the same receiving chops as Calvin.

 

[Monsters of the Midway]

I'm tentatively targeting Patterson in the mid-4th in one or both of my 2 main leagues. They are non-PPR but give huge bonuses for long TDs. Those two things work directly in Patterson's favor. Among the list of guys listed earlier-I'd take Patterson over all of them except DeSean Jackson (again, maybe less catches but all long TDs).

 

[Touchdown There]

I think CP will have 2-4 monstrous fantasy weeks and the other 12-14 will be short of expectations for a 4th rounder. The decision to start or bench for fantasy owners will be gruelling, comparable to Mike Wallace last year.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

We have return yardage bonuses 1 pt for 30 yds

So I'm looking forward to drafting Patterson as my WR2 with top 10 potential in that scoring system

 

[LawFitz]

Good luck getting him in Rd 4.

 

[steveski]

I think CP will have 2-4 monstrous fantasy weeks and the other 12-14 will be short of expectations for a 4th rounder. The decision to start or bench for fantasy owners will be gruelling, comparable to Mike Wallace last year.

So you're predicting him to perform the same or worse than last year?