Real Collusion (1 Viewer)

[TheStig]

I take it nobody looked at the box scores to see how this "lopsided" trade panned out. Did I read .7 points for AJ Green to be correct? And he will have zero points next week? And Fitzgerald with 12.10 points.

I Law Firm 6.2 points Moreno 7.9 points.

This is why you dont play God in your league. Leave trades alone unless you have a time machine period.

which would only be relevant if the 3-7 team didn't already admit that he didn't make the trade in good faith (and the leaving Russel Wilson out thing)

The actual results are what matter though. Everyone is simply playing God shouting unfair this and collusion that. In the end, for one week at least, everyone was wrong about the outcome of the trade. Everyone considered the trade collusionary based on the direction and the perceived value of the players involved.Again, 8 people colluded to improve their chance at winning $4000 and keeping the money from the two guys they kicked out.and on top of it, terms of how the trade worked out, they were all wrong.

I disagree with this philosophically. I'm not much of a fan of Consequentialism--for a whole plethora of reasons I won't clog up this thread with. Consequentialism is a really bad and really lazy philosophy. If I trade away Julio Jones for Davone Bess the week before Jones is knocked out for the year, have I made a "good" trade? Have I made a "fair" trade?

YMMV of course. Some of us are process-oriented and others of us are results-oriented. I'm just disagreeing with the idea that "results are all that matter."

Only actual results are recorded and used to determine a winner and a loser, not potential. If only potential and not the actual outcome or results, were what mattered, then the games would not be played on Sunday.

Again, unless you know for fact what the results will be, it is simply best to leave well enough alone and stay out of other peoples team management, unless you want to be judged at some point. In spite of all the odds, the League was simply wrong in their collected wisdom in determining the outcome of this trade.

Let the season play out and deal with the two when it is all over.

 

[Zaphod]

Did you kick these two owners out of your league too?

Was it a 16 team league at the start of the season? Keep questioning trades until you're the last man standing.

This one really made me laugh KCitons!

You went and tracked down a post I made in the AC to clear up where I stand in a trade

The question, "which side do you like?" should be a hint that someone is trying to gauge which side they personally like better. Unfortunately this doesn't help your agenda.

KCitons, you are one stupid individual.

To be fair, you haven't done yourself any favors in this thread.

 

[fantasycurse42]

You guys are all funny... Two owners admit to cheating, apologize to the league, leave their money in, & decide to come back next year - Yet somehow you still defend them and insult the eight owners that didn't cheat.

This is comedy, keep it going.

 

[KCitons]

You guys are all funny... Two owners admit to cheating, apologize to the league, leave their money in, & decide to come back next year - Yet somehow you still defend them and insult the eight owners that didn't cheat.

This is comedy, keep it going.

Can you truly not see the value in some of these posts? Unfair trades and possible collusion are things that every league has to deal with. It may be because you are not a commissioner, so if a league falls apart, you could care less. It wasn't your hard work down the drain.

At least for me, this thread evolved into some helpful discussion. This issue is not as black and white as some make it out to be. I'm willing to listen to anything that makes my league stronger or could save me headaches down the road. So far, I haven't read anything that would do that.

If you still think this thread is about you and your specific problem, it's not. Your scenario is being used to further the discussion. If it would make you happy, I could start a new thread for all collusion. Nobody here expects you (or your league) to change the decision.

 

[TheStig]

You guys are all funny... Two owners admit to cheating, apologize to the league, leave their money in, & decide to come back next year - Yet somehow you still defend them and insult the eight owners that didn't cheat.

This is comedy, keep it going.

For me, it is more about leaving well enough alone. This trade, for me anyways, demonstrates that as lopsided and deceitful it may seem to the league and everyone who posted, how horrifically bad their prediction of the outcome was.

And regardless of what the two guys agreed to, in terms of their money, that strikes me as no different than the guy begging for the trade. Give them their money back if they can no longer participate this season. Keeping the money is as wrong and it should not be contingent upon their playing next year.

 

[RUSF18]

It is collusion. We just have a lot of wannabe lawyers here who like to nitpick and argue semantics.

It reminds me of two women I work with... I offered them $5,000 for a night together... just the three of us They agreed and even said it might be fun. So, given their apparent interest, I asked them to do it for free. Appalled, they replied "what do you think we are? A couple of whores?". "Yes, that has already been established. Now we're just negotiating price".

The dumbest post in this thread is this guy trying to claim this old joke as something that really happened to him.

 

[KCitons]

We have rules to deal with collusion in our league. If suspected, the owner(s) are asked to explain themselves on the league message board. It is important to keep things as transparent as possible, this eliminates the he said, she said, of only using emails. Everyone can read it and establish their own opinion. If the collusion is substantiated, then league votes on whether to keep the owner in the league. As commissioner, if I am able to prove collusion through the use of MFL tools, then I will remove the owner immediately without vote.

If an owner is removed, he loses his fees in our league. I don't have a problem with eliminating dishonest owners. I also don't have a problem keeping their fees. As long as it's justified. But, because every situation is different, I've built in a checks and balances where other owners share in the decision.

The problem still remains, how do you establish what is collusion or what trades constitute collusion?

 

[ragnarok628]

I take it nobody looked at the box scores to see how this "lopsided" trade panned out. Did I read .7 points for AJ Green to be correct? And he will have zero points next week? And Fitzgerald with 12.10 points.

I Law Firm 6.2 points Moreno 7.9 points.

This is why you dont play God in your league. Leave trades alone unless you have a time machine period.

which would only be relevant if the 3-7 team didn't already admit that he didn't make the trade in good faith (and the leaving Russel Wilson out thing)

The actual results are what matter though. Everyone is simply playing God shouting unfair this and collusion that. In the end, for one week at least, everyone was wrong about the outcome of the trade. Everyone considered the trade collusionary based on the direction and the perceived value of the players involved.Again, 8 people colluded to improve their chance at winning $4000 and keeping the money from the two guys they kicked out.and on top of it, terms of how the trade worked out, they were all wrong.

I disagree with this philosophically. I'm not much of a fan of Consequentialism--for a whole plethora of reasons I won't clog up this thread with. Consequentialism is a really bad and really lazy philosophy. If I trade away Julio Jones for Davone Bess the week before Jones is knocked out for the year, have I made a "good" trade? Have I made a "fair" trade?

YMMV of course. Some of us are process-oriented and others of us are results-oriented. I'm just disagreeing with the idea that "results are all that matter."

Only actual results are recorded and used to determine a winner and a loser, not potential. If only potential and not the actual outcome or results, were what mattered, then the games would not be played on Sunday.

Again, unless you know for fact what the results will be, it is simply best to leave well enough alone and stay out of other peoples team management, unless you want to be judged at some point. In spite of all the odds, the League was simply wrong in their collected wisdom in determining the outcome of this trade.

Let the season play out and deal with the two when it is all over.

oh hey i forgot about this thread...

anyway, in a case like this, results actually don't matter one bit. cheating ineffectively isn't the same as playing ethically, even if the outcome is similar or worse for the cheater. The collusion is in the agreement to stack the deck for one team; the unexpected result absolves no one. Had this been a good faith trade (by a very deep swimming shark!) then the results would indeed serve as vindication, but since we have already established that this was not the case, the verdict is still and forevermore guilty.

@kcitons

I am definitely not in favor of a league vote on trades, not least because too many people think everything they don't consider to be exactly even is collusion. I think that it should be the commissioner's job to look into 'red flag' trades like this and get to the bottom of things before letting that trade go through. (which seems to be what happened here, fwiw). Most of the time if it's actual collusion there will be no kind of reasonable explanation and either they'll be forced to admit what they're up to or commish will determine within a reasonable doubt what they are up to. most of the time it has to be a judgement call. i would try to err on the side of allowing people to manage their own teams, but... going back to OP example, this late in the season, extremely lopsided trade, and the team losing the trade being already out of competition, it would take a LOT of convincing for me to believe it wasn't collusion. luckily in this case, we have confession, which is all the proof we need. anyway, that was kind of a sidetrack back to the original situation, but back to the point, i prefer to rely on a commish with integrity and good judgement to determine where there is collusion, the alternative to me is mob rule and way too many trades get bounced for bad reasons in my experience when voting is involved.

 

[Wrigley]

this thread makes my head hurt

 

[TheStig]

I take it nobody looked at the box scores to see how this "lopsided" trade panned out. Did I read .7 points for AJ Green to be correct? And he will have zero points next week? And Fitzgerald with 12.10 points.

I Law Firm 6.2 points Moreno 7.9 points.

This is why you dont play God in your league. Leave trades alone unless you have a time machine period.

which would only be relevant if the 3-7 team didn't already admit that he didn't make the trade in good faith (and the leaving Russel Wilson out thing)

The actual results are what matter though. Everyone is simply playing God shouting unfair this and collusion that. In the end, for one week at least, everyone was wrong about the outcome of the trade. Everyone considered the trade collusionary based on the direction and the perceived value of the players involved.Again, 8 people colluded to improve their chance at winning $4000 and keeping the money from the two guys they kicked out.and on top of it, terms of how the trade worked out, they were all wrong.

I disagree with this philosophically. I'm not much of a fan of Consequentialism--for a whole plethora of reasons I won't clog up this thread with. Consequentialism is a really bad and really lazy philosophy. If I trade away Julio Jones for Davone Bess the week before Jones is knocked out for the year, have I made a "good" trade? Have I made a "fair" trade?

YMMV of course. Some of us are process-oriented and others of us are results-oriented. I'm just disagreeing with the idea that "results are all that matter."

Only actual results are recorded and used to determine a winner and a loser, not potential. If only potential and not the actual outcome or results, were what mattered, then the games would not be played on Sunday.

Again, unless you know for fact what the results will be, it is simply best to leave well enough alone and stay out of other peoples team management, unless you want to be judged at some point. In spite of all the odds, the League was simply wrong in their collected wisdom in determining the outcome of this trade.

Let the season play out and deal with the two when it is all over.

oh hey i forgot about this thread...

anyway, in a case like this, results actually don't matter one bit. cheating ineffectively isn't the same as playing ethically, even if the outcome is similar or worse for the cheater. The collusion is in the agreement to stack the deck for one team; the unexpected result absolves no one. Had this been a good faith trade (by a very deep swimming shark!) then the results would indeed serve as vindication, but since we have already established that this was not the case, the verdict is still and forevermore guilty.

@kcitons

I am definitely not in favor of a league vote on trades, not least because too many people think everything they don't consider to be exactly even is collusion. I think that it should be the commissioner's job to look into 'red flag' trades like this and get to the bottom of things before letting that trade go through. (which seems to be what happened here, fwiw). Most of the time if it's actual collusion there will be no kind of reasonable explanation and either they'll be forced to admit what they're up to or commish will determine within a reasonable doubt what they are up to. most of the time it has to be a judgement call. i would try to err on the side of allowing people to manage their own teams, but... going back to OP example, this late in the season, extremely lopsided trade, and the team losing the trade being already out of competition, it would take a LOT of convincing for me to believe it wasn't collusion. luckily in this case, we have confession, which is all the proof we need. anyway, that was kind of a sidetrack back to the original situation, but back to the point, i prefer to rely on a commish with integrity and good judgement to determine where there is collusion, the alternative to me is mob rule and way too many trades get bounced for bad reasons in my experience when voting is involved.

The problem here wasn't "collusion", it was apathy. A guy dumped his roster because he gave up on the season that he no longer had any stake in.

The solution, isnt to scream collusion, eliminate two players from competition and keep their money. A good league, one with a $4000 pot distributes the money in motivational ways to keep players interested. That is what you get when you pay $400 to get in and by week 10 you are out of it? Have a cash prize for 7th place. Have a "minor league" where that league winner replaces the last place team in the big league. Create a weekly "skins challenge for points that if the points are not met, it carries over into the following week.

What ever you do a $400 entry fee should buy you more of an experience than what this league has. You do things like that and your league whould never have had this problem, but dangle $4000 in front of someones nose and you get these deals that perhaps have been going on all along.

 

[KCitons]

Everybody has a different idea of what is considered fun in fantasy football. That's why there are so many different league structures. I don't think anyone has stated that cheating is an acceptable part of any league.

I still don't see why people think they have to interfere with other peoples teams when it's not collusion. I haven't seen a single argument posted here that would convince me to reverse a trade based solely on it being lopsided.

It just seems awfully arrogant to think you knew better than everyone else when it comes to fantasy football. Or standing behind integrity of the league to decide a players roster.

 

[ragnarok628]

The problem here wasn't "collusion", it was apathy. A guy dumped his roster because he gave up on the season that he no longer had any stake in.


The solution, isnt to scream collusion, eliminate two players from competition and keep their money. A good league, one with a $4000 pot distributes the money in motivational ways to keep players interested. That is what you get when you pay $400 to get in and by week 10 you are out of it? Have a cash prize for 7th place. Have a "minor league" where that league winner replaces the last place team in the big league. Create a weekly "skins challenge for points that if the points are not met, it carries over into the following week.

What ever you do a $400 entry fee should buy you more of an experience than what this league has. You do things like that and your league whould never have had this problem, but dangle $4000 in front of someones nose and you get these deals that perhaps have been going on all along.

@bolded part:

this notion that an apathetic player isn't colluding when he ships his best players off to another team continues to be absurd. It's a purposely lopsided trade for the intent of improving one team at the expense of the other, i.e. textbook collusion. there is no additional element that needs to be present in this situation before it can be considered collusion--it already fits. It doesn't matter that no money was involved or whatever magic ingredient you think is missing.

@rest:

the actual solution is to have rules in place for when collusion happens so you don't have to invent things on the fly which are unlikely to be well thought out. as KC points out, there's a lot of different ideas on how to make FF fun. maybe your ideas would be fun for you, but others would see as namby-pamby hippie bull**** that would take the fun out of it for them. (count me in with that group, cash prize for sucking all season? forget that). Point is, it's your job to figure out if that league will be fun for you before you join it, not the league's job to keep your immature mind entertained so you won't pitch a hissy fit and mess things up for others. alternatively, just make sure you're playing with real grown ups.

 

[Rove!]

The real solution is to have participants that play for the love of the game week to week and have personal integrity.

In the past, I've enjoyed playing the spoiler role if my team was not destined for greatness.

Commish was right to veto the trade, but as others have pointed out, keeping the money and DQing the teams was unfair to the cheaters.

In the end, this was real collusion.

 

[KCitons]

Would the 3-7 team made the trade with anyone? Maybe if the other teams begged more. This still doesn't make sense to me.

Probably will never know the truth. Gun to my head guess, I would say the 3-7 team and the 6-4 team made a deal under the table. Perhaps there was going to be a payment later. When they got caught, they admitted to the trade being poor, but came up with the excuse of one team begging the other until he gave in. Again, this goes back to my point that you will rarely get a confession, people will lie or partially lie to keep themselves from looking bad.

 

[KCitons]

The real solution is to have participants that play for the love of the game week to week and have personal integrity.

In the past, I've enjoyed playing the spoiler role if my team was not destined for greatness.

Commish was right to veto the trade, but as others have pointed out, keeping the money and DQing the teams was unfair to the cheaters.

In the end, this was real collusion.

Why was DQing and keeping the money unfair? I was concerned at the start of this thread, because the OP (and the league) made that decision before they had all the facts. But, once an owner has confessed, or it has been proven that he cheated, why should he be allowed to stay? Or take his money and leave?

Let's say a commissioner fails to pay prize money at the end of the season and keeps making excuses. Finally, he admits that he blew the money on a trip to Vegas. He says it won't happen again. Would you continue to play in this league and give the commish money next season?

 

[ragnarok628]

how many of you guys ever played Settlers of Catan? if you haven't the short version is It's a tabletop game with a randomized board where different spaces grant different resources which each player tries to acquire, so that he can expand his ability to aquire yet more resources, which also yields Victory Points. The game is won when a player accumulates enough Victory Points. since the kinds of resources you get depend on your board position, a big part of the game is negotiating resource trades between players.

It's a pretty fun game, but it has a major flaw: in a 4 player game, there is usually at least one player who, through a few unlucky dice rolls or some early mistake/miscalculation, will find himself early in the game with a position from which he is simply not going to be able to win. However, no player ever is eliminated, so sometimes you get stuck playing 30-45 minutes of a game you've already lost. So some players will decide at this point that the only way for them to 'win' is to make the game be over as soon as possible. to that end, they can just start helping the player in the lead by trading to him whatever resources they need. I don't think you need to have played this game to understand what a #### move that is for the rest of the players.

 

[TheStig]

The problem here wasn't "collusion", it was apathy. A guy dumped his roster because he gave up on the season that he no longer had any stake in.


The solution, isnt to scream collusion, eliminate two players from competition and keep their money. A good league, one with a $4000 pot distributes the money in motivational ways to keep players interested. That is what you get when you pay $400 to get in and by week 10 you are out of it? Have a cash prize for 7th place. Have a "minor league" where that league winner replaces the last place team in the big league. Create a weekly "skins challenge for points that if the points are not met, it carries over into the following week.

What ever you do a $400 entry fee should buy you more of an experience than what this league has. You do things like that and your league whould never have had this problem, but dangle $4000 in front of someones nose and you get these deals that perhaps have been going on all along.

@bolded part:

this notion that an apathetic player isn't colluding when he ships his best players off to another team continues to be absurd. It's a purposely lopsided trade for the intent of improving one team at the expense of the other, i.e. textbook collusion. there is no additional element that needs to be present in this situation before it can be considered collusion--it already fits. It doesn't matter that no money was involved or whatever magic ingredient you think is missing.

@rest:

the actual solution is to have rules in place for when collusion happens so you don't have to invent things on the fly which are unlikely to be well thought out. as KC points out, there's a lot of different ideas on how to make FF fun. maybe your ideas would be fun for you, but others would see as namby-pamby hippie bull**** that would take the fun out of it for them. (count me in with that group, cash prize for sucking all season? forget that). Point is, it's your job to figure out if that league will be fun for you before you join it, not the league's job to keep your immature mind entertained so you won't pitch a hissy fit and mess things up for others. alternatively, just make sure you're playing with real grown ups.

You can go your way and have drama. I think kicking a last place team out is pretty interesting. But set up all kinds of rules otherwise and be paranoid or win $3000 and make sure there is enough money out there to keep things interesting and competitive. But this was a move of apathy. But go ahead call it hippie nonsense and do it your way and turn something that is supposed to be fun into a 9 page forum debate because of some drama queens love their nerdy little rules.

But if you honestly believe that people are playing FF for "Integrity" or they "enjoy being the spoiler" you still believe in Santa Claus. That coldn't be a more naive approach to a league. Make a pot $4000 and the odds of integrity failing only grow. Giving somebody a chance at a few coins isn't hippie nonsense but good league management.

 

[KCitons]

how many of you guys ever played Settlers of Catan? if you haven't the short version is It's a tabletop game with a randomized board where different spaces grant different resources which each player tries to acquire, so that he can expand his ability to aquire yet more resources, which also yields Victory Points. The game is won when a player accumulates enough Victory Points. since the kinds of resources you get depend on your board position, a big part of the game is negotiating resource trades between players.

It's a pretty fun game, but it has a major flaw: in a 4 player game, there is usually at least one player who, through a few unlucky dice rolls or some early mistake/miscalculation, will find himself early in the game with a position from which he is simply not going to be able to win. However, no player ever is eliminated, so sometimes you get stuck playing 30-45 minutes of a game you've already lost. So some players will decide at this point that the only way for them to 'win' is to make the game be over as soon as possible. to that end, they can just start helping the player in the lead by trading to him whatever resources they need. I don't think you need to have played this game to understand what a #### move that is for the rest of the players.

That's the beauty of fantasy football. If you find a flaw, establish rules to fix it.

If you could change the Settlers of Catan rules to eliminate the flaw, the game would be better for everyone.

Which is where we stand today in FF. How to eliminate the flaws.

 

[Rove!]

The problem here wasn't "collusion", it was apathy. A guy dumped his roster because he gave up on the season that he no longer had any stake in.


The solution, isnt to scream collusion, eliminate two players from competition and keep their money. A good league, one with a $4000 pot distributes the money in motivational ways to keep players interested. That is what you get when you pay $400 to get in and by week 10 you are out of it? Have a cash prize for 7th place. Have a "minor league" where that league winner replaces the last place team in the big league. Create a weekly "skins challenge for points that if the points are not met, it carries over into the following week.

What ever you do a $400 entry fee should buy you more of an experience than what this league has. You do things like that and your league whould never have had this problem, but dangle $4000 in front of someones nose and you get these deals that perhaps have been going on all along.

@bolded part:

this notion that an apathetic player isn't colluding when he ships his best players off to another team continues to be absurd. It's a purposely lopsided trade for the intent of improving one team at the expense of the other, i.e. textbook collusion. there is no additional element that needs to be present in this situation before it can be considered collusion--it already fits. It doesn't matter that no money was involved or whatever magic ingredient you think is missing.

@rest:

the actual solution is to have rules in place for when collusion happens so you don't have to invent things on the fly which are unlikely to be well thought out. as KC points out, there's a lot of different ideas on how to make FF fun. maybe your ideas would be fun for you, but others would see as namby-pamby hippie bull**** that would take the fun out of it for them. (count me in with that group, cash prize for sucking all season? forget that). Point is, it's your job to figure out if that league will be fun for you before you join it, not the league's job to keep your immature mind entertained so you won't pitch a hissy fit and mess things up for others. alternatively, just make sure you're playing with real grown ups.

You can go your way and have drama. I think kicking a last place team out is pretty interesting. But set up all kinds of rules otherwise and be paranoid or win $3000 and make sure there is enough money out there to keep things interesting and competitive. But this was a move of apathy. But go ahead call it hippie nonsense and do it your way and turn something that is supposed to be fun into a 9 page forum debate because of some drama queens love their nerdy little rules.

But if you honestly believe that people are playing FF for "Integrity" or they "enjoy being the spoiler" you still believe in Santa Claus. That coldn't be a more naive approach to a league. Make a pot $4000 and the odds of integrity failing only grow. Giving somebody a chance at a few coins isn't hippie nonsense but good league management.

I have a league that's been going since the 90s and we've never had a horrible trade or a question on anybody's integrity and even bad teams are making moves and setting solid lineups. Our Commish has never had to overrule a trade or even consider doing so...

 

[TheStig]

The problem here wasn't "collusion", it was apathy. A guy dumped his roster because he gave up on the season that he no longer had any stake in.

The solution, isnt to scream collusion, eliminate two players from competition and keep their money. A good league, one with a $4000 pot distributes the money in motivational ways to keep players interested. That is what you get when you pay $400 to get in and by week 10 you are out of it? Have a cash prize for 7th place. Have a "minor league" where that league winner replaces the last place team in the big league. Create a weekly "skins challenge for points that if the points are not met, it carries over into the following week.

What ever you do a $400 entry fee should buy you more of an experience than what this league has. You do things like that and your league whould never have had this problem, but dangle $4000 in front of someones nose and you get these deals that perhaps have been going on all along.

@bolded part:

this notion that an apathetic player isn't colluding when he ships his best players off to another team continues to be absurd. It's a purposely lopsided trade for the intent of improving one team at the expense of the other, i.e. textbook collusion. there is no additional element that needs to be present in this situation before it can be considered collusion--it already fits. It doesn't matter that no money was involved or whatever magic ingredient you think is missing.

@rest:

the actual solution is to have rules in place for when collusion happens so you don't have to invent things on the fly which are unlikely to be well thought out. as KC points out, there's a lot of different ideas on how to make FF fun. maybe your ideas would be fun for you, but others would see as namby-pamby hippie bull**** that would take the fun out of it for them. (count me in with that group, cash prize for sucking all season? forget that). Point is, it's your job to figure out if that league will be fun for you before you join it, not the league's job to keep your immature mind entertained so you won't pitch a hissy fit and mess things up for others. alternatively, just make sure you're playing with real grown ups.

You can go your way and have drama. I think kicking a last place team out is pretty interesting. But set up all kinds of rules otherwise and be paranoid or win $3000 and make sure there is enough money out there to keep things interesting and competitive. But this was a move of apathy. But go ahead call it hippie nonsense and do it your way and turn something that is supposed to be fun into a 9 page forum debate because of some drama queens love their nerdy little rules.But if you honestly believe that people are playing FF for "Integrity" or they "enjoy being the spoiler" you still believe in Santa Claus. That coldn't be a more naive approach to a league. Make a pot $4000 and the odds of integrity failing only grow. Giving somebody a chance at a few coins isn't hippie nonsense but good league management.

I have a league that's been going since the 90s and we've never had a horrible trade or a question on anybody's integrity and even bad teams are making moves and setting solid lineups. Our Commish has never had to overrule a trade or even consider doing so...

Cling to that group. Getting 10 guys who just "get it" is tough.

 

[Legion of Doom]

this thread makes my head hurt

It makes my soul ache! The once mighty pool is now a puddle

I know lets make a decision without all the facts! How can the majority of people take the OP stating the owner "confessed" as gospel, but ignore the fact he also said the team was still in the playoff hunt("basically out of contention"= snowball chance in hell. I'll take those odds.,been there,done that,left with a devil flavored snow cone) Sadly only one or two people even inquired about the rosters. Everyone else couldn't get past that on paper it looks very lopsided. BTW Why would you hesitate to provide it(it=info) if it proved your point? but alas no rosters or leagues standings, which could confirm the possibility of a legit trade.

Red flags, flashing lights, spider sense, bull#### detector or common sense,something should be kicking in at this point! You should have been asking yourself how can I make this decision when I truly don't know that it don't help his team,after all,he still has a chance. I think we all know whether we want to admit it or not you cant.make this kind of decision without full disclosure. You guys passing judgment on the OP's word alone, without a roster is akin to me having Joe Bryant arrested for stealing his car without the fuzz running the plates or checking the vin numbers. " But that's my Pacer" ,"Sorry Mr. Bryant, no need to check... Legion said so and that's good enough for us"!

 

[DropKick]

this thread makes my head hurt

It makes my soul ache! The once mighty pool is now a puddle

I know lets make a decision without all the facts! How can the majority of people take the OP stating the owner "confessed" as gospel, but ignore the fact he also said the team was still in the playoff hunt("basically out of contention"= snowball chance in hell. I'll take those odds.,been there,done that,left with a devil flavored snow cone) Sadly only one or two people even inquired about the rosters. Everyone else couldn't get past that on paper it looks very lopsided. BTW Why would you hesitate to provide it(it=info) if it proved your point? but alas no rosters or leagues standings, which could confirm the possibility of a legit trade.

Red flags, flashing lights, spider sense, bull#### detector or common sense,something should be kicking in at this point! You should have been asking yourself how can I make this decision when I truly don't know that it don't help his team,after all,he still has a chance. I think we all know whether we want to admit it or not you cant.make this kind of decision without full disclosure. You guys passing judgment on the OP's word alone, without a roster is akin to me having Joe Bryant arrested for stealing his car without the fuzz running the plates or checking the vin numbers. " But that's my Pacer" ,"Sorry Mr. Bryant, no need to check... Legion said so and that's good enough for us"!

A 3 win team with little or no margin for error gives up Russell Wilson for an injured QB that isn't even playing? He must have won some other part of the trade then, right? Oh, he also gave up a top 5 RB in Moreno for BJGE, a RB in the 40s, losing more and more touches to Gio? Well, he did get a "name" in Fitzpatrick though! Surely, that is the centerpiece of the deal. Wait - he gave up AJ Green, a WR who has averaged 130+ yards a game over the past 5 weeks - the top WR in the league over that span. One again, Fitz is low 40s over that same time frame.

Surely, the rosters would explain everything. Maybe we're just smarter than you?

 

[Buffaloes]

this has been a long fishing trip. cliff's notes on the past 5 pages?

 

[Wrigley]

this has been a long fishing trip. cliff's notes on the past 5 pages?

Cast and reel

 

[The Fantasy Chef]

Did you veto the trade?

 

[Legion of Doom]

Did you veto the trade?

Hell yeah they straight up vito'd the trade, took their money, kicked them out of the league and told em to forgetaboutit. I thought the commish was a wuss, now I'm worried about waking up with a horsehead in my bed.....

 

[fantasycurse42]

Did you veto the trade?

Took the two owners out back, beat the #### out of them, slept with their wives, & left them for dead.

Punishment fit the crime.

 

[Legion of Doom]

this has been a long fishing trip.

Meh,I would read the "Jerry Rice is not a Hofer" thread if you want an epic angling tale for the ages,one that would make Herman Melville envious. Hope it still exists. Shame if it was lost to cyberspace

 

[Legion of Doom]

Maybe we're just smarter than you?

The "smart" people are the ones who never opened this thread to start with! Most people avoid stepping in dogcrap when they see it

Earlier in this thread I clearly laid out why knowing the rosters and records could indeed make a huge difference. After week 1 well I'll be damned if it's not the 1st period of the Miracle on Ice in the making. Only problem is your on the wrong side of history and 2/3 of your comrades don't make the second period. You do know AJ and Russell don't play this week, right????? BTW That will be 2 weeks in a row for AJ with zero points. I think we all know how this is going to end. Sometimes the fantasy gods like to remind us our #### stinks and despite all of our collective wisdom, there is a reason they play the games. I learned this lesson years ago, hopefully you learned yours today. Funny how a few "minute" details are the difference between a bad trade and one of the most righteous epic shark moves of all time!

 

[TheStig]

Maybe we're just smarter than you?

The "smart" people are the ones who never opened this thread to start with! Most people avoid stepping in dogcrap when they see itEarlier in this thread I clearly laid out why knowing the rosters and records could indeed make a huge difference. After week 1 well I'll be damned if it's not the 1st period of the Miracle on Ice in the making. Only problem is your on the wrong side of history and 2/3 of your comrades don't make the second period. You do know AJ and Russell don't play this week, right????? BTW That will be 2 weeks in a row for AJ with zero points. I think we all know how this is going to end. Sometimes the fantasy gods like to remind us our #### stinks and despite all of our collective wisdom, there is a reason they play the games. I learned this lesson years ago, hopefully you learned yours today. Funny how a few "minute" details are the difference between a bad trade and one of the most righteous epic shark moves of all time!

I said it before in this thread and I'll repeat it again. Leave trades alone unless you are either God or have a Time Machine. FF is results oriented. The Stock Market does not care about past performance only about present performance and ones best guess about the future.

FF is a prediction game and in a 10 team league where only 4 teams make the playoffs I'd say 60% of the league suck enough at their own predictions that they have no right judging a league mates decisions.

 

[KCitons]

Maybe we're just smarter than you?

The "smart" people are the ones who never opened this thread to start with! Most people avoid stepping in dogcrap when they see it

Earlier in this thread I clearly laid out why knowing the rosters and records could indeed make a huge difference. After week 1 well I'll be damned if it's not the 1st period of the Miracle on Ice in the making. Only problem is your on the wrong side of history and 2/3 of your comrades don't make the second period. You do know AJ and Russell don't play this week, right????? BTW That will be 2 weeks in a row for AJ with zero points. I think we all know how this is going to end. Sometimes the fantasy gods like to remind us our #### stinks and despite all of our collective wisdom, there is a reason they play the games. I learned this lesson years ago, hopefully you learned yours today. Funny how a few "minute" details are the difference between a bad trade and one of the most righteous epic shark moves of all time!

Nobody asked when the OP's league holds their playoffs. If it starts week 14, I could see the 3-7 team winning the trade.

But, I have a feeling this league holds it's championship game in week 17. Just a gut feeling.