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Red Dog - Unofficial Staff vs. Posters (2 Viewers)

9th round is concluded:

Code: 
9.01 129. Chris Overton White, LenDale TEN RB Fri Feb 16 8:31:55 p.m. PT 2007 9.02 130. Jeff Pasquino Jones, Brandon TEN WR Fri Feb 16 9:32:00 p.m. PT 2007 9.03 131. Marc Faletti Betts, Ladell WAS RB Fri Feb 16 10:21:53 p.m. PT 2007 9.04 132. Jeff Pasquino Glenn, Terry DAL WR Fri Feb 16 10:21:53 p.m. PT 2007 9.05 133. Terry Winfree Williams, Reggie JAC WR Fri Feb 16 10:21:53 p.m. PT 2007 9.06 134. Nick Chadick Clark, Desmond CHI TE Sat Feb 17 6:22:55 a.m. PT 2007 9.07 135. Aaron Rudnicki Witherspoon, Will STL LB Sat Feb 17 8:59:25 a.m. PT 2007 9.08 136. Alex Fernandez Bruce, Isaac STL WR Sat Feb 17 9:33:41 a.m. PT 2007 9.09 137. Jake Parrish June, Cato IND LB Sat Feb 17 10:14:43 a.m. PT 2007 9.10 138. Carlos Rodrigues Green, Ahman GBP RB Sat Feb 17 10:14:43 a.m. PT 2007 t 9.11 139. Ben Bregitzer Muhammad, Muhsin CHI WR Sat Feb 17 10:14:43 a.m. PT 2007 9.12 140. Jake Bachman Polamalu, Troy PIT S Sat Feb 17 10:48:49 a.m. PT 2007 9.13 141. Derek Tonn Stevens, Jerramy SEA TE Sat Feb 17 10:49:39 a.m. PT 2007 9.14 142. Will Grant Peterson, Julian SEA LB Sat Feb 17 11:53:36 a.m. PT 2007 9.15 143. Sigmund Bloom Umenyiora, Osi NYG DE Sat Feb 17 11:53:36 a.m. PT 2007 9.16 144. Will Grant Leftwich, Byron JAC QB Sat Feb 17 11:54:54
 
current roster

Qb - J. Cutler

Rb - M. Turner, T. Bell

Wr - J. Walker, S. Moss, B. Edwards, Calvin Johnson (1.02r)

Te - A. Gates, V. Davis

 
QB: JP Losman

RB: Clinton Portis, DeAngelo Williams

WR: TJ Houshmandzadeh, Jerrico Cotchery

TE: Jason Witten

DE: Jared Allen

LB: Keith Bulluck, Will Witherspoon

S: Sean Taylor

 
Since we're all laying them on the table...

QB: P. Manning

RB: S. Jackson, E. James

WR: M. Harrison, T. Owens

TE: Des Clark, M. Lewes

S: G. Wilson

 
Catching up after a day of painting.

9.13 TE Jerramy Stevens, Seahawks. RIDICULOUS value at 141 overall in this TE-friendly league. He is an UFA, but I'm confident that he'll get re-signed by the team and, with Mili out of the way, presents incredible value as a TE2. Gives me added protection against RB injuries and bye weeks too.

10.04 DE Will Smith, Saints. Had him as the best player left on my board, with the added bonus of me being in need of a DE. Probably not going to blow anyone's doors off with this one, but solid, SOLID value play.

As to Chris' breakdown on all my trades, I always like to move down and "hoard" picks in the early/middle rounds. That's what I always feel gives me the "luxury" of doubling-up on value instead of being forced to pick "need" (Hasselbeck, Stevens, etc.). If I tried to draft with Bloom and a few other guys even-up, I wouldn't stand a chance. My best chance to to build up a war chest of depth.....then CRUSH when it comes to injuries, bye weeks, trade value, etc. I'm very happy with where my team is at so far, but the next 20+ rounds will be critical to determining whether my squad is simply "good", or whether I can be a contender..... :shrug:

 
datonn said:
9.13 TE Jerramy Stevens, Seahawks. RIDICULOUS value at 141 overall in this TE-friendly league. He is an UFA, but I'm confident that he'll get re-signed by the team and, with Mili out of the way, presents incredible value as a TE2. Gives me added protection against RB injuries and bye weeks too.
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Don't quite see the "ridiculous value" here at 9.13 with IDPs.I think it's way early to consider taking this inconsistant TE,even in a TE friendly league.But we all have different value systems.Good luck with that one.
 
I hear you, Ron_Mexico. In a 16-team league though (start 1-2 TEs) with MUCH greater bonuses to TEs on yardage and receptions than any other position, he looked awfully, awfully good.

For me, I guess I look at how his targets, yardage and TDs were trending over the last 5-6 weeks of the season (including playoffs). Averaging 6 targets per week, topping 50 yards three out of five times with three TDs. The Seahawks have also released Mili, and Hasselbeck should be 100% by the start of the 2007 season. All those factors, along with the potential (?) departure of DJax, D.J. Hackett to free agency and some lingering concerns about Engram's health (I've been struggling with a similar thyroid condition over the past several months, and I couldn't imagine playing football feeling how crappy I've felt), and I see Stevens' targets, receptions, yards and TDs all taking a healthy bump-up in 2007. Of course, all bets are off if he leaves Seattle, but I don't think that will happen.

 
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OK, I'll bite:

QB-J.Campbell/P.Rivers

RB-S.Alexander/K.Jones/J.Jones

WR-D.Jackson/M.Jones/D.Henderson

TE-C.Cooley

LB-C.June/R.Lewis

Stir, stir, stir

 
ClownDogs said:
Current Roster:

Romo/Schaub(10th)

Bush/Addai

Boldin/MaClayton/VJackson

ODaniels(10th)

AJ Hawk A.Davis/A.Crowell(both 10th)

Mario Williams/R.Mathis(both 10th)

Polamalu
Click to expand...
Pretty happy with the youth so far, I have passed on some older talent in favor of the upside of youth.All the 10th round picks I had(6), I think i got decent value with those picks.

 
datonn said:
Catching up after a day of painting.

9.13 TE Jerramy Stevens, Seahawks. RIDICULOUS value at 141 overall in this TE-friendly league. He is an UFA, but I'm confident that he'll get re-signed by the team and, with Mili out of the way, presents incredible value as a TE2. Gives me added protection against RB injuries and bye weeks too.

10.04 DE Will Smith, Saints. Had him as the best player left on my board, with the added bonus of me being in need of a DE. Probably not going to blow anyone's doors off with this one, but solid, SOLID value play.

As to Chris' breakdown on all my trades, I always like to move down and "hoard" picks in the early/middle rounds. That's what I always feel gives me the "luxury" of doubling-up on value instead of being forced to pick "need" (Hasselbeck, Stevens, etc.). If I tried to draft with Bloom and a few other guys even-up, I wouldn't stand a chance. My best chance to to build up a war chest of depth.....then CRUSH when it comes to injuries, bye weeks, trade value, etc. I'm very happy with where my team is at so far, but the next 20+ rounds will be critical to determining whether my squad is simply "good", or whether I can be a contender..... :lmao:
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I definitly think your numerous trade downs and building of additional picks through doing so has been one of the more interesting aspects of this draft. When I look at each trade you made I see them mostly as fair value wise. Just shifting picks around in the draft I am assuming based upon an extensive tier system that you put together prior to the draft.I have done this before as well and doing so really benifited me. The extra picks gained especialy makes a difference if you are able to gain 3 or more of them or when your picks clump into groups that still fall within a tier of player talent that helps you take advantage of them.

That being said (and I still need to look closer) I do not really agree with your execution of the picks gained by trading down.

1st of all I thought you would take more advantage of younger emerging players that will gain value over time. You traded quality for quantity. That rarely works in the short term (redraft) and is somthing most would agree is the opposite of what you want to do. In dynasty this can be looked at differently if you take young players who are not as highly regarded yet but that are poised to break out in the near future. For example Big Ben Alex Smith Leinart Cutler DeAngelo Williams Cedric Benson Michael Turner Marion Barber Jerrious Norwood Lendale White Chris Henry Reggie Williams Santonio Holmes Jennings Cotchery Berrian Chad Jackson (I am being careful to only name players in this category that have been drafted allready) and you did take a couple of those (bolded) but I thought that would be more of your focus than it was. By having the extra picks to do so it mitigates the risk taken on that they will not pan out somewhat. The benifit is in getting value picks for these players more easily by having multiple later picks. The strategy is to build a team with elite level talent for the future without having to pay the premium price for those players. I thought you would do more of this than you did. Trading down to gain trade value in depth moving forward as the value of the players taken with your later picks grows. Taking older players who are solid but who's value has allready peaked seems somewhat counter-productive to the benifits of a dynasty trade down strategy to me. But you must be looking at it in another way than I am.

2nd I thought you would pick more IDP players. The weakness you took on by trading down and not rostering elite level and highly coveted offensive players could be offset by taking the elite defensive players. And the extra picks gained would allow you to be one of the 1st owners drafting several IDP players while still drafting your offense at the same time. Perhaps Terry Winfree threw you off from that strategy somewhat by drafting 4 LBers early before you shifted your focus towards IDPs? Or perhaps that was not part of your trade down strategy to begin with I am not sure.

For the most part so far my assesment of how you have executed the trade down strategy has ended up being reaching for need more than taking BPA unfortunitly. Your draft so far has gone:

RB

RB

QB

WR

TE

WR

RB

QB

WR

LB

WR

LB

TE

DE

You have not taken any premium players at any position which you had an opportunity to do so at least at DE and DB. You have drafted the 5th QB 14th RB 23rd WR 10th TE 9th DE 8th LB and no DBs yet. Not saying you cannot get value at those positions by not being the 1st to draft them but it does not seem to be the execution of trading down that would be as advantagous to you with the oportunity to at least get a elite talent at a couple positions to somewhat offset the disadvantage your taking with the elite skill positions. Which would be taking BPA imo.

The 1st pick where I felt you took on risk and began to stray from the advantage you built in trading down was when you took McNabb. It seems to me that with having 3 picks in round 5 and then 4 picks in round 6 you could have waited to draft a young but promising QB with one of those picks while addressing other areas and still gotten a very good one. Especialy if following the 1st part of the trade down strategy I described of taking younger emerging players that can gain value. McNabb will not gain value. He still has plenty of time left in his career (if he can get and stay healthy) but people are not going to break the bank in trading for him given his risks. And at the spot you drafted him I think the best you can hope for in trading him is to break even where as if you drafted a up and coming QB(s) later they have room to gain value for you over time thus maximising the value you gained in trading down for them. You could have drafted Plax or any IDP there instead. Perhaps McNabb will pay off for you. I know you said you expected a QB run at this point with 7 picks before your next pick possibly being used on QB. So perhaps the pick is justified in wanting to be at the begining of that expected run. However when I count the QBs taken after this there are 12 suitable QBs some with less risk and being close value that are proven such as Brady Bulger Hass or the younger QBs who could hold down the spot and gain value for you over time such as Leinart Ben Eli ect.

Your next pick of Reggie Brown seems like a bit of a reach for need. You could have drafted any IDP (except Merriman) here instead with 23 WRs allready gone and relied on your multiple picks coming up to take WRs at a greater value instead. I think premire IDPs would give you more of an advantage at this point of the draft than taking a WR2 type talent. If you had waited you could also be drafting a QB here instead. Even if the QB run had swallowed up 7 QBs between your previous pick and this one you would be looking at a worse case scenario of drafting Hass Ben or Eli based off of the order that the QBs were taken. Fit in whichever QB here like I said I see about 12 that would be suitable. Perhaps Reggie Brown fits in with the younger player who can gain value over time category though.

Your next pick of Ben Watson I think fits in with a player who can gain value. He had a ton of targets and for now is still the premire weapon for Brady and the Patriots. He did not live up to his opportunity last year in an ideal situation such as this however so that gives some concern. A decent upside pick though unfortunitly focus was on need more than BPA. You could have taken Julius Peppers here for example a QB (still) or a elite LBer or your highest rated DB.

Next pick Dieon Branch. This guy is a decent WR2-3 but I think you passed up an opportunity to get an elite DE in Julius Peppers or an elite LB like Urlacher. You also could have taken a RB or a young QB like Eli here if you had not drafted McNabb allready. I allready talked about the 12 QBs making it safe to wait if following that strategy.

I like your next pick of Norwood. This is the kind of player I think gives more value to the trade down scenario that I described earlier.

I was expecting you to shift over to taking some premire players at untouched positions by now but that didnt happen.

Your next pick of Matt Hasselbeck really leaves me confused. Yes he is a great value being taken so late but you allready have a QB and I am not sure what you expect people to trade for an aging QB like him? I could understand it better if the QB was an up and coming younger QB like Alex Smith who would serve 2 purposes. Backup QB to McNabb who will last longer in the league and could take over when McNabb is no longer useful. As trade bait to another team needing a QB replacement. I don't think Hass will trade as well as Smith 2 years from now. If you plan to use him as immediate trade bait or as a replacement for McNabb as trade bait then ok good luck. You had many options available to you at IDPs WRs or RBs who always trade well when a team is in need but instead covered McNabb in case he isnt healthy enough to play in 2007 which makes your earlier pick somewhat wasted if you do not get a trade. If you do get a trade it may be similar to another trade down depending on what you get in return.

Next pick Mike Furrey?? Ouch come on bro yes he had a good season but the guy is not a natural WR there is allready talk of replacing him and Furrey just screams career year to me and he is not young either. If your going to commit to a WR here why not a younger promising player like Jennings, Holmes or Berrian? Once again options available to you at IDP or RB. You still could have taken the premire DB or a top DE or LB.

You seem to be taking kind of a win now approach with many of you picks but combining that philosophy with trading down while interesting I think it is somewhat counter-productive and a recipe for rebuilding mode by year 3 of this league if picks like this continue.

Next pick Bart Scott. Scott is a good player. Would likely be even better if Ray Lewis was not competing with him for tackles. I like this pick however I don't think you can count on him getting quite so many sacks as he did last year moving forward. There are other young LBers with more clear paths to success than Scott still available.

Next pick London Fletcher. Fletcher is a elite LBer but getting old. He is the same age as Ray Lewis btw so if you think Fletcher still has several years left in him then you think Ray Lewis does as well? Which makes the Scott pick a bit puzzling. Fletcher is also a free agent and IDPs are more scheme dependent than skill players are although I expect Fletcher to be successful no matter where he goes because of his talent. But how successful? You could have taken Antonio Pierce instead who is 3 years younger and in a much more clear situation or Kirk Morrison or Lofa Tatupu who are young center pieces of those defenses. Or you could have taken Adrian Wilson or Kerry Rhodes and locked up a premire safety instead. While your hitting your LBers here your somewhat chasing a run with other elite IDP prospects available and also those young promising WRs are being drafted here.

Next pick you shift back to WR and get Santonio Holmes. I like the pick he is promising. You miss out on Adrian Wilson who was taken the pick after this. Another opportunity lost.

Next pick you take Ernie Sims good young LBer. I like the pick however Kerry Rhodes or perhaps Sean Jones would have given you more of an advantage I think. You also could have taken Aaron Kampman or Bernard Berrian. This was the last pick of you 9 picks in a 3 round clump that you traded down for.

You really came away from the extra picks with a mixed bag of players. Unfortunitly I think too many of the selections were mediocre. I don't see a lot of players that are going to gain value for you as they improve. There are a few but I think you needed to draft more of them. I also think you had the opportunity to take advantage of picking premium players at the IDP positions but you wasted those chances.

Sorry this long look at your draft is so negative. This is just one persons perspective. I definitly could be wrong and you definitly seem to have a different philosophy than I do when building a dynasty team and how you couple that with your trade down strategy. I am curious about what your philosohpy is and what your response to all this might be. I do think your trades and draft have been the most interesting for me to follow. If any of my comments make sense to you perhaps that can help you next time.

:eek: to McNabb/Brown being a deadly combo moving forward. I think a lot of your teams success is tied to that while your older RBs hold it down for you short term. Your IDPs are decent but I think you could have done better on that side of the ball. With a better defense than the rest of these teams I think you could compete for a title while a younger offense was gelling. That would have been my aproach. I don't think you have managed to get a great edge on defense with your picks however. :(

 
10th round's in the bag:

Code: 
10.01 145. Ben Bregitzer Schobel, Aaron BUF DE Sat Feb 17 12:05:01 p.m. PT 2007 10.02 146. Nick Chadick Lewis, Marcedes JAC TE (R)  Sat Feb 17 12:05:34 p.m. PT 2007 10.03 147. Jake Bachman Daniels, Owen HOU TE (R)  Sat Feb 17 12:08:23 p.m. PT 2007 10.04 148. Derek Tonn Smith, Will NOS DE Sat Feb 17 12:44:53 p.m. PT 2007 10.05 149. Brian Smith Bell, Tatum DEN RB Sat Feb 17 1:23:29 p.m. PT 2007 10.06 150. Ben Bregitzer Freeney, Dwight IND DE Sat Feb 17 1:23:29 p.m. PT 2007 10.07 151. Nick Chadick Wilson, Gibril NYG S Sat Feb 17 1:43:46 p.m. PT 2007 10.08 152. Jake Parrish Lewis, Ray BAL LB Sat Feb 17 2:07:05 p.m. PT 2007 10.09 153. Jake Bachman Mathis, Robert IND DE Sat Feb 17 2:08:14 p.m. PT 2007 10.10 154. Aaron Rudnicki Taylor, Sean WAS S Sat Feb 17 2:08:14 p.m. PT 2007 10.11 155. Jake Bachman Williams, Mario HOU DE (R)  Sat Feb 17 2:13:58 p.m. PT 2007 10.12 156. Jake Bachman Schaub, Matt ATL QB Sat Feb 17 2:14:31 p.m. PT 2007 10.13 157. Jeff Pasquino Jackson, Tarvaris MIN QB (R)  Sat Feb 17 2:31:31 p.m. PT 2007 10.14 158. Marc Faletti Galloway, Joey TBB WR Sat Feb 17 4:04:04 p.m. PT 2007 10.15 159. Jake Bachman Davis, Andra CLE LB Sat Feb 17 4:04:04 p.m. PT 2007 10.16 160. Jake Bachman Crowell, Angelo BUF LB Sat Feb 17 5:09:05 p.m. PT 2007
 
Biabreakable,

All very good comments. I guess maybe I am subconsciously taking more of a "win now" approach with the picks I have made. However, my thinking is that there is PLENTY of time for both "win now" and "win later" type of picks. RB is an example of this. Rudi and Deuce are in their prime, Norwood will be carrying the load in Atlanta after they are gone. LFB will crush at LB1 for 2-3 more years....just in time for Sims to be cashing in his free ticket to Hawai'i on an annual basis. I could have taken more of Brian's (dirtyhalos) "win later" approach. However, my thinking is that in a draft like this:

1. Guys SERIOUSLY over-value youth/potential over proven performance. If I had my druthers, I would never draft a WR under 27-28 years of age. Why? Because for every one STUD that guys think they are finding, 20-30+ bust and/or never perform at the level of vets taken well-after they are off the board.

2. None of us even know if we will be breathing 3-4 years from now. I could have drafted a lot younger than I did (especially at QB). However, why? What is so glorious about being the young up-and-coming team who has yet to prove anything. Back in 2004 or so, the Cincinnati Bengals looked as though they had the team that every NFL exec wished they had: A STUD young QB, a solid, bruising RB, Ocho Cinco, T.J., a young and talented defensive unit, etc. It is now 2007, and what do the Bengals have to show for that....other than about 20% of their 53-man roster in prison at some point in the past year? I don't want to be the "Bengals." I want to be the "Patriots." :bye: Jeff P has the right idea too. I thought guys like Terry Glenn and LaMont Jordan might keep tumbling, and if they had, I would have snatched them up very quickly.

3. In a v-e-r-y deep league such as this, the difference between 5-8 and 8-5 isn't having that one can't-miss ________. It's having DEPTH and interchangeable parts at almost every position. Injuries and bye weeks will decide the teams that go deep into the playoffs, and I've played FFL long enough to know that in deep leagues with a TON of parity, two very GOOD/SOLID players > one GREAT one. Not in trade value, but in W/L. I'll gladly go to the playoffs every year with solid but not spectacular players....if I can get a little luck and avoid the injury bug.

It's more of a mutual fund strategy than anything. That, and having fun and trying a few new things. A shotgun scatter-shot....mix of youth and vets, grabbing the best players on the board (IMO) while I am on the clock. I know that Furrey was early (I value him in PPR apparently a lot higher than most, so I should have waited and drafted him a bit later), and I didn't need a QB2 when I drafted one. However, I am very happy with my squad overall to this point.....with my only regret being that I got a bit "greedy" and thought the LB run might slide 6-8 picks later than it did. Put Terry's LB corps on my squad had the run happened where I thought it would, and you'll get an idea of where I thought I would be at this stage. Still, I can't complain. I'm having fun, like my team, and think I can compete. It's been a fun draft so far! :lmao:

 
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datonn said:
1. Guys SERIOUSLY over-value youth/potential over proven performance. If I had my druthers, I would never draft a WR under 27-28 years of age. Why? Because for every one STUD that guys think they are finding, 20-30+ bust and/or never perform at the level of vets taken well-after they are off the board.
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I won't necessarily dispute your point, but I think your numbers are a bit off. 20-30 busts for every hit? Puh-leeze. One comment on this league:Seeing how far some relatively viable RBs fell (Thomas Jones, LenDale White, Ahman Green, LaMont Jordan, Travis Henry) makes the RB reaches in the first couple of rounds look all the more criminal. I don't have a roster list handy, but I suspect that the teams who avoided the temptation to reach for RBs and instead snagged guys like Fitzgerald, Gates, Boldin, C. Johnson, S. Smith, and Holt are going to end up being very tough to beat. Of course, what ultimately makes a huge difference is which teams are able to pull a gem or two out of the middle and late rounds. Guys like Colston and Gore single-handedly made teams last year. Every season brings us a few of these breakout stars. Finding them is important in a league that's as deep as this one.
 
Been watching from the sideline, only have one small point (I very much agree with Biabreakable, awesome post BTW). The thing about having a team of "solid" players and no studs is that you have to really excell at playing the match-ups, which is never easy.

 
EBF said:
I won't necessarily dispute your point, but I think your numbers are a bit off. 20-30 busts for every hit? Puh-leeze.
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Probably exaggerated a bit, LOL. However, not by much IMHO. You count up all the flash-in-the-pan WRs that are either drafted or pounced on in the waiver wire after 1-2 good weeks in the pre-season and/or some columnist's positive speculation, and that number probably isn't TOO far from the truth. :lmao:
 
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I see.

Well roster composition does end up becoming:

1. Players that most of the time you start.

2. Backups to your starters/players you start when matchup looks good.

3. Prospects you hope improve and take over as starters.

Your ability to make many trades allready and so early in the forming of this league has given me 2 thoughts on what to expect moving forward. One that many owners in this league are willing to trade. Not every league is like this. Some leagues only have a few owners always looking for a deal. Two that you are good at negotiation and making deals happen.

Taking these 2 thoughts into consideration that leads me to think that you will have several opportunities once this draft is completed to make more trades. So with this in mind using your trade down strategy and pairing it with drafting players that will be attractive trade targets would be in your benifit. However I don't think your draft has quite achieved that goal. Maybe I am wrong or maybe that is not a goal that you have.

For me when I started a league in a similar fashion by trading down several times in the initial draft 5 years ago I did have this in my mind. I may have been lucky also with many of my prospect picks panning out and gaining in value from the point that I drafted them. I agree with what your saying that many of these "prospects" do not always pan out. Sometimes they do though. My main point about this is a belief/strategy in maximising the value of trading down to lesser (percieved) players that have room to grow and improve on thier current standing. That is a multiplier of value. You get the depth and players that can grow into players that would be picked much higher in 2008 or 2009 for example. This does kind of go back to my ongoing question of how do you determine player values in dynasty?

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=296123&hl= I use a 3 year projection method. This enables me to be looking far enough ahead to find players I expect to grow. You combine this with expected ADP and there are several layers/levels of player value that can be taken advantage of.

Percieved value and actual value are not the same things either when it comes to this. Knowing that owners in dynasty may overvalue young prospects give you more trade leverage when dealing these players with other owners. Even before those players break out. Think about bloom screaming EEEEEEEEE over Brandon Marshall. By drafting those players I think you put your self in a better position for future trading as those investments mature.

I hear you on the LBer situation. Mr Winfree may have thrown you off in your expectations there. The scoring in this league is more diverse than most with multiple double dipping categories that can turn one big play into a backbreaking triple effect from what it might normaly have. So that defrays the consistency of IDPs somewhat. However I have been leaning more and more to the solid and predictable nature of tackle based scoring. It is more consistent than yardage scoring in many cases. And this allows for a solid defense to really put even opponent you face in a difficult position.

When the Linebackers began coming off the board you still could have adjusted by taking premire DBs and DE while still having enough picks in those areas to draft your LBers. I just think it is unfortunite that you passed by an opportunity to at least secure a couple uber talents to suppliment your advantage of depth. There will be at least a couple owners who are fortunite to have healthy seasons from all thier players. Bye issues only effect a few games. I don't think you have taken enough of an advantage when you could have. And you also haven't set yourself up for the best trade bait opportunities either imo. Which is too bad as trading seems to be one of your strengths. And it is a very important skill to have in dynasty. Perhaps more so than drafting ability.

 
datonn said:
3. In a v-e-r-y deep league such as this, the difference between 5-8 and 8-5 isn't having that one can't-miss ________. It's having DEPTH and interchangeable parts at almost every position. Injuries and bye weeks will decide the teams that go deep into the playoffs, and I've played FFL long enough to know that in deep leagues with a TON of parity, two very GOOD/SOLID players > one GREAT one. Not in trade value, but in W/L. I'll gladly go to the playoffs every year with solid but not spectacular players....if I can get a little luck and avoid the injury bug.
Click to expand...
Nice draft fellas and a great read.Anyway, I come from the opposite school than the above point in Derek's list. There's probably some fancy risk-management argument that makes my default strategy a poor one, but I want every possible advantage I can get in my starting lineup, depth be damned. While others are worrying over matchups and carrying a bunch of depth, I'm looking for an unbeatable starting lineup (when it's fully healthy). I want the top scoring team with the capability to finish 11-2. I want established studs (age is no issue if I've got a playoff contender) and players with big boom-bust potential. Certainly easier said than done in a league full of knowledgeable owners, but it's plenty possible to get a bunch of top ten scores across the positional grid within a couple of seasons. People are always looking to sell a Marvin Harrison or Keith Bulluck or Michael Strahan because they're too old. If hit by injury, I'm hopeful that I can leverage the waiver wire into in-season replacements where need be. Still, if you can get a huge relative point advantage at a number of positions, even an extra injury now and then won't cripple you. If not, then I've got some studs returning for the following season and a primo draft spot to work from.I think I'd have done exactly what Biabreakable suggested with DT's glut of draft picks. I don't think DT's team is bad; just different strokes for different folks. BTW, I consider myself an active trader but I don't think I'd have been able to pull off what DT did pre-draft. Very, very well done. Hope it pays off for you.
 
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shake zula said:
I want a team write up!
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Alex FernandezPlayer YTD Pts Bye DraftedPalmer, Carson CIN QB 298.20 5 2.13 ------- not bad

McGahee, Willis BUF RB 163.60 8 2.09 -------- reach!!!

Parker, Willie PIT RB 294.20 4 1.08 -------- good pick!!!!

Berrian, Bernard CHI WR 173.00 7 8.02 ------- good luck

Bruce, Isaac STL WR 209.80 7 9.08 ------- already collecting social security

Bryant, Antonio SFO WR 139.70 7 8.07 ------- suspension

Moss, Randy OAK WR 117.30 3 5.04 -------- :bow:

Williamson, Troy MIN WR 84.50 6 11.02 ------ dont hold breath

Clark, Dallas IND TE 109.70 6 8.09 ------- 4th option?

Tatupu, Lofa SEA LB 196.35 5 7.12 ------ isnt a lofa one of those chick bath puff balls?

Vilma, Jonathan NYJ LB 152.35 9 8.05 -------- decent lb

:confused:

 
dirtyhalos said:
shake zula said:
I want a team write up!
Click to expand...
Alex FernandezPlayer YTD Pts Bye DraftedPalmer, Carson CIN QB 298.20 5 2.13 ------- not bad

McGahee, Willis BUF RB 163.60 8 2.09 -------- reach!!!

Parker, Willie PIT RB 294.20 4 1.08 -------- good pick!!!!

Berrian, Bernard CHI WR 173.00 7 8.02 ------- good luck

Bruce, Isaac STL WR 209.80 7 9.08 ------- already collecting social security

Bryant, Antonio SFO WR 139.70 7 8.07 ------- suspension

Moss, Randy OAK WR 117.30 3 5.04 -------- :lmao:

Williamson, Troy MIN WR 84.50 6 11.02 ------ dont hold breath

Clark, Dallas IND TE 109.70 6 8.09 ------- 4th option?

Tatupu, Lofa SEA LB 196.35 5 7.12 ------ isnt a lofa one of those chick bath puff balls?

Vilma, Jonathan NYJ LB 152.35 9 8.05 -------- decent lb

:confused:
Click to expand...
:bow:
 
Did I get this right? ClownDogs 1st pick was 1.06 and he took Steven Jackson of the Carolina Panthers?

Then you guys were nice enough to let him pick a player who might actualy play more than special teams?

Just making sure I got the right guy here...

 
Jene Bramel said:
People are always looking to sell a Marvin Harrison or Keith Bulluck or Michael Strahan because they're too old. If hit by injury, I'm hopeful that I can leverage the waiver wire into in-season replacements where need be.
Click to expand...
I went to High School with Keith. Cmon, hes not old. He is 30, he still has another 7 years in the league if he stays healthy
 
Biabreakable,

:goodposting:

Honestly, the area I struggle with the most in FFL is anticipating what other owners will do with their picks. Brian, Bloom and Jeff are drafting exactly how I thought they would be drafting (I think other than 2-3 picks each, I could have turned in their picks without talking with them, LOL). And that is a compliment to them! :thumbsup: Or a criticism, LOL However, for a lot of the other guys, I have ZERO clue what they are going to do with their picks. Terry's LB run really threw me off my game. Couple that with me working 80+ hours this week (so far :kicksrock: ), and I probably didn't react/respond to that surprise the way that I should have.

The thing about this stuff though is that I am *not* a FFL "expert". I work on the FBGs Blogger, but all that really makes me is current on player news. I think I can hold my own in most leagues, but I'm not a "Bloom" or a guy like LHUCKS, who THINKS he is Bloom. :pokey: :D I just enjoy playing FFL. I'm a kick-### GM, but I'm still learning when it comes to "scouting" or "coaching."

:popcorn:

 
datonn said:
Biabreakable,

:goodposting:

Honestly, the area I struggle with the most in FFL is anticipating what other owners will do with their picks. Brian, Bloom and Jeff are drafting exactly how I thought they would be drafting (I think other than 2-3 picks each, I could have turned in their picks without talking with them, LOL). And that is a compliment to them! :thumbsup: Or a criticism, LOL However, for a lot of the other guys, I have ZERO clue what they are going to do with their picks. Terry's LB run really threw me off my game. Couple that with me working 80+ hours this week (so far :kicksrock: ), and I probably didn't react/respond to that surprise the way that I should have.

The thing about this stuff though is that I am *not* a FFL "expert". I work on the FBGs Blogger, but all that really makes me is current on player news. I think I can hold my own in most leagues, but I'm not a "Bloom" or a guy like LHUCKS, who THINKS he is Bloom. :pokey: :D I just enjoy playing FFL. I'm a kick-### GM, but I'm still learning when it comes to "scouting" or "coaching."

:popcorn:
Click to expand...
few are.... :D :bow:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I waited a long time to grab my 3rd WR. Hoping Kevin Curtis winds up in Detroit...seems like everyone is expecting it to happen, which means it probably won't.

 
Well how to track SJAX2's trades.. hmm..

1st of all he traded Draft Pick 1.02;Year 2006 Draft Pick 3.02;Year 2006 Draft Pick 7.13;Year 2006 Draft Pick 12.15

Sigmund Bloom gave up Year 2006 Draft Pick 1.06;Year 2006 Draft Pick 2.11;Year 2006 Draft Pick 5.06;Year 2006 Draft Pick 10.11

SJAX2 did not net an extra pick in this trade. That would have been a requirement for me if I were drafting out of the top 2 picks. I would at the very least required a later pick to be gained by me without returning a later pick of my own. Or I would target a rookie pick extra. In any case your giving me 4 picks for 3 or 3 picks for 2.. I am gaining a pick period or your not getting me to trade down like this.

There may be times that I am willing to swap positions in the draft where neither owner is gaining a pick in the exchange just because I want to move position. But for the most part when I am trading down I will only do it to gain an extra pick somewhere for it to be worth the value that I lose by trading down.

I look at it this way. If I am trading you Larry Johnson (as this pick ends up being) I am not going to be trading him to you for any player straight up. Your giving me quality players not one player for him. That is the only way you could realisticly make such a trade post draft so that is my same expectation when trading draft picks. While the pick upgrades are nice they don't do it for me like an extra pick will. That is my opinion. Some owners don't like the idea of having less than thier total number of picks. Well I wont be trading with them like this then. I will find someone who will. I think bloom should have given 6.11 for nothing in return in order to do this deal. So Draft Pick 1.02;Year 2006 Draft Pick 3.02 for 1.06 2.11 and 6.11 = LJ + Lee Evans for Bush + Boldin + Furrey. I don't think that is unreasonable at all. No way would I take what SJAX2 got from bloom for the 1.02 pick. LJ + Lee Evans + Ernie Sims + 12.15 for Bush + Boldin + Ben Watson + Matt Shuab? Nope I like the LJ side of that deal even without seeing who bloom gets at pick 12.15 yet.

Next trade that matters is AJ Moura gave up Year 2006 Draft Pick 1.13;Year 2006 Draft Pick 6.11;Year 2006 Draft Pick 14.13;Year 2006 Draft Pick 30.11;Year 2006 Draft Pick 30.13;Year 2006 Draft Pick 42.04;Year 2006 Draft Pick 42.13

SJAX2 gave up Year 2006 Draft Pick 2.11;Year 2006 Draft Pick 5.13;Year 2006 Draft Pick 1.13 rookie pick

I like this trade better but hold the phone there wilbur!! SJAX trades a 2nd and 5th for a 1st and 6th + a 14th and multiple round 30 or later picks. He has to give up his 1st round rookie for that though. Those late picks are too late to honestly matter very much. The rookie pick is better than those. Those round 30 picks are in the player 500 area. Who are you really going to find there? Your going to be scratching you head to find a player that you even know much about at that point so the deal is more like a 14th round pick player 221 to be exact for rookie 1.13

SJAX2 gets taken again :shrug: but it is not a huge loss and moving up from 2.11 to 1.13 is worth that I think. The extra round 30 picks will help SJAX2 fill out his roster earlier also.

The more I look the more I see owners pilfering value from SJAX2 through trades. Not sure how you guys are talking draft pick values here. Probobly based off of Jeff's diabolical draft pick calculator contraption. NEVER will I let some machine or mathematical formula try to tell me how valuable some picks are. That will not cut the mustard.

Ouch Mora keeps going back to the SJAX2 well with this one: Jake Bachman gave up Year 2006 Draft Pick 2.15;Year 2006 Draft Pick 5.04;Year 2006 Draft Pick 6.03

AJ Moura gave up Year 2006 Draft Pick 1.10;Year 2006 Draft Pick 24.13;Year 2006 Draft Pick 48.07

The hits just keep coming in

Will Grant moves up from round 6 to round 5 by giving SJAX2 a 2.16 rookie pick.

There are a couple deals where I see SJAX2 coming out ahead which balances things somewhat but for the most part I think he got the raw end of deals and degraded his high pick value of drawing pick 1.02 I think he would have ended up better with just doing a straight draft from that position of strength.

1.02 Larry Johnson

2.15 Roy Williams

3.02 Andre Johnson

4.15 Matt Leinart ----> could be DeMeco Ryans,Jerrius Norwood, Thomas Jones, Randy Moss or S. Holmes.

5.02 Tom Brady

6.15 London Fletcher

----------------BREAK------------------

7.02 Jarred Allen

8.15 Alex Smith-----> Could be a LB TE WR or RB instead

9.02 Brandon Jones

10.15 Davis, Andra CLE LB

The positions get slanted to much by QB picks but you get a general idea of the level of talent he started out with at that draft position.

This is what he ends up drafting:

1.06 Bush, Reggie NOS RB ®

1.10 Addai, Joseph IND RB ®

2.11 Boldin, Anquan ARI WR

3.14 Clayton, Mark BAL WR

5.03 Romo, Tony DAL QB

6.02 Hawk, A.J. GBP LB ®

-------------------------BREAK-----------------------

7.15 Jackson, Vincent SDC WR

9.12 Polamalu, Troy PIT S

10.03 Daniels, Owen HOU TE ®

-------------------------BREAK------------------------

10.09 Mathis, Robert IND DE Sat

10.11 Williams, Mario HOU DE ®

10.12 Schaub, Matt ATL QB

10.15 Davis, Andra CLE LB

10.16 Crowell, Angelo BUF LB

SJAX2 does pile up multiple 10th round picks after all his flapping around and that is kind of interesting. All of these picks are outside of the top 150 but he gets some decent players in Andra Davis Crowell Mario Williams and Robert Mathis to bolster his IDP crew. He has consolidated most of his picks into his top 6 players. Polamalu was a nice pick at 9.12

This team is extremely young. Look at all the ® but he doesen't pick again until pick 13.02 then 16.15 17.02 18.15 19.02 21.02

I think the Sharks have picked this carcass pretty clean allready.

Bush and Addai if they pan out will be good players moving forward. Boldin and Mark Clayton are good WRs but Jackson is a ? still at this point and he still does not have a 4th WR. Romo might be allright but I have him in Dynasty and honestly I am not sold on him moving forward yet. Hawk and Polamalu are good IDPs. I like Owen Daniels but I see him as a backup TE still at this point. I have some optimism for him but he is a risk as a TE1. The players that he has to pick 10.16 are going to have to hold it down for him. He doesen't have rookie pick help coming that I saw from this draft class (maybe I missed somthing in those trades?) and I think he may be drafting high in the rookie draft in 08.

Maybe I am being a bit harsh as this is a 16 team league but I see too much risk in speculative youth overall on his roster and some of those players could still bust. I don't see help coming in depth behind it with the picks he has remaining while other teams allready have more total players than he does with many more picks coming before he picks again. I realise I am comparing 12 team rosters to 16 here somewhat in my assesment but his roster looks like the prospect list that teams have behind thier starters for the most part to me. With all the rookies on his squad this team looks like a rebuild where the year before the team had traded almost all of thier decent veterans for rookie picks in 06.

To put things in better perspective I looked quickly at the other team rosters and SJAX2 is in better shape comparativly than I thought. I guess I was letting my 12 team perspective have too much weight. I still don't like his trades and I think he would be better off right now for not making most of them. Either by drafting straight or by making different trades.

Starting out in high draft position in dynasty has a lot more value than I think people realise. This does get offset somewhat by having rookie picks reverse order. That does help to balance things somewhat. I think starting high in a league like this where many owners are willing to trade he could have really done well with a multiple trade down strategy. The higher you start in the 1st round the more opportunities to trade down and pick up extra picks you have. The trade downs was the main thing that interested me about this draft and SJAX2 did this also piling up all those 10th round picks. I just dont like the trades he did. I think he could have done much better and be in a lot stronger position right now although his specific players may not be as sexy at the top of his roster.

That is the way things go sometimes in Dynasty and his team is definitly built for the future. Several of his top players will be highly valued by other teams in trades.

 
Thanks Biabreakable, really appreciate your honesty. Some of the deals I made I wanted specific players that were dropping to that position and knew I might be giving up a little too much, but that is the price you pay for the player you want.

And as you can tell now from my roster, I am building my roster for the long haul while still keeping it very much in the hunt this year, imho.

So far, I am very please with my team and doing exactly what I was expecting to do.

SJAX2

 
Fear & Loathing said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
I waited a long time to grab my 3rd WR. Hoping Kevin Curtis winds up in Detroit...seems like everyone is expecting it to happen, which means it probably won't.
Click to expand...
Great pick. I can't believe some of the WRs drafted ahead of him. Now about that Losman pick...
Click to expand...
14th in QB scoring in this league last season...entering a contract year. will have the same coaching staff and play in the same system next year. what's not to like about him exactly?
 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Fear & Loathing said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
I waited a long time to grab my 3rd WR. Hoping Kevin Curtis winds up in Detroit...seems like everyone is expecting it to happen, which means it probably won't.
Click to expand...
Great pick. I can't believe some of the WRs drafted ahead of him. Now about that Losman pick...
Click to expand...
14th in QB scoring in this league last season...entering a contract year. will have the same coaching staff and play in the same system next year. what's not to like about him exactly?
Click to expand...
Give it up Aaron, some people just won't get it until Losman finishes the year as a top 10 QB. If Buffalo manages to get a consistent WR2, preferably a strong presence over the middle, Losman will be one of the best values in this draft. I don't even like Buffalo or Losman (although Evans :yes: ) and see the value.
 
Ok, another update:

Jake Bachman gave up Year 2006 Draft Pick 11.14;Year 2006 Draft Pick 15.02

Chris Overton gave up Year 2006 Draft Pick 10.16;Year 2006 Draft Pick 20.16
Click to expand...
I was watching the draft unfold and the guys sitting around at 10.16 weren't thrilling me, either because of age, injury, lack of track record, etc. Those things won't get better as the draft goes on, but I'll certainly be more comfortable picking them later with lower picks and I'm willing to watch a couple of guys I'd generally like have (L. Washington; TE A. Smith; Sean Jones; D. Bennett; Hackett) go off the board in the meantime. 11.14(174) Daniel Graham- I'm very happy to nab him here. This is as others have said a very TE-friendly league. If he leaves NE as a FA (and I'm definitely rooting for that), he'll hopefully be signed as a team's receiving TE which is what he wants. I may have picked up a good 2nd TE who I can at least on occasion start as the TE21. Not bad.

My roster now is:

QB - Bulger

RB - Tomlinson, L. White

WR - Colston, Burress, Henry

TE - Scheffler, Graham

K -

DT -

DE - Peppers, Suggs

LB - Pierce

CB -

S - A. Wilson

 
I was watching the draft unfold and the guys sitting around at 10.16 weren't thrilling me, either because of age, injury, lack of track record, etc. Those things won't get better as the draft goes on, but I'll certainly be more comfortable picking them later with lower picks and I'm willing to watch a couple of guys I'd generally like have (L. Washington; TE A. Smith; Sean Jones; D. Bennett; HACKETT go off the board in the meantime.

A pick of mine in the generally like to have department? :banned:

 
I was watching the draft unfold and the guys sitting around at 10.16 weren't thrilling me, either because of age, injury, lack of track record, etc. Those things won't get better as the draft goes on, but I'll certainly be more comfortable picking them later with lower picks and I'm willing to watch a couple of guys I'd generally like have (L. Washington; TE A. Smith; Sean Jones; D. Bennett; HACKETT go off the board in the meantime.

A pick of mine in the generally like to have department? :D

:banned:

Trade down's a judgement call. I definitely like Hackett as a WR prospect, but I don't really understand how Holmgren uses his WR's - can't make sense of it.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Fear & Loathing said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
I waited a long time to grab my 3rd WR. Hoping Kevin Curtis winds up in Detroit...seems like everyone is expecting it to happen, which means it probably won't.
Click to expand...
Great pick. I can't believe some of the WRs drafted ahead of him. Now about that Losman pick...
Click to expand...
14th in QB scoring in this league last season...entering a contract year. will have the same coaching staff and play in the same system next year. what's not to like about him exactly?
Click to expand...
1. Where was he in points per game vs. total points? A QB putting up below average points on a weekly basis is no kind of an advantage in fantasy football just because he plays every snap.2. There were reports that the Bills were considering benching him mid-way through the season.3. He's clearly not at his best when he's the focus of the offense.4. Fumbles. Lots of 'em. 5. His own teammates have expressed doubts about him in the past...pro AND college.6. He's had a habit of staring down his #1 WR too long and holding on to the football.7. Uneven performances. He's extremely inconsistent, which is a problem in fantasy football.In a nutshell, I don't expect to see continued improvement from J.P. Losman. I think this is probably as good as it gets for him. We always expect younger players to continue to improve, but often it doesn't happen that way. In his case, I think he's helped out by Lee Evans more than most QBs are aided by their best WR. Without Evans, he'd be worthless (especially with the deep ball being Losman's biggest strength as a passer).Drafting on talent and expectations for the future, I think Losman went several rounds too early. More importantly, I think he could be a fantasy franchise killer if you're relying on him as your #1 QB. Just one man's analysis. We'll see...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fear & Loathing said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Fear & Loathing said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
I waited a long time to grab my 3rd WR. Hoping Kevin Curtis winds up in Detroit...seems like everyone is expecting it to happen, which means it probably won't.
Click to expand...
Great pick. I can't believe some of the WRs drafted ahead of him. Now about that Losman pick...
Click to expand...
14th in QB scoring in this league last season...entering a contract year. will have the same coaching staff and play in the same system next year. what's not to like about him exactly?
Click to expand...
1. Where was he in points per game vs. total points? A QB putting up below average points on a weekly basis is no kind of an advantage in fantasy football just because he plays every snap.2. There were reports that the Bills were considering benching him mid-way through the season.3. He's clearly not at his best when he's the focus of the offense.4. Fumbles. Lots of 'em. 5. His own teammates have expressed doubts about him in the past...pro AND college.6. He's had a habit of staring down his #1 WR too long and holding on to the football.7. Uneven performances. He's extremely inconsistent, which is a problem in fantasy football.In a nutshell, I don't expect to see continued improvement from J.P. Losman. I think this is probably as good as it gets for him. We always expect younger players to continue to improve, but often it doesn't happen that way. In his case, I think he's helped out by Lee Evans more than most QBs are aided by their best WR. Without Evans, he'd be worthless (especially with the deep ball being Losman's biggest strength as a passer).Drafting on talent and expectations for the future, I think Losman went several rounds too early. More importantly, I think he could be a fantasy franchise killer if you're relying on him as your #1 QB. We'll see...
Click to expand...
Skeptics suck. All that stuff is what they said about Rob Johnson. :banned:
 
redman said:
I was watching the draft unfold and the guys sitting around at 10.16 weren't thrilling me, either because of age, injury, lack of track record, etc. Those things won't get better as the draft goes on, but I'll certainly be more comfortable picking them later with lower picks and I'm willing to watch a couple of guys I'd generally like have (L. Washington; TE A. Smith; Sean Jones; D. Bennett; HACKETT go off the board in the meantime.
Click to expand...
A pick of mine in the generally like to have department? :banned:

:rolleyes:

Trade down's a judgement call. I definitely like Hackett as a WR prospect, but I don't really understand how Holmgren uses his WR's - can't make sense of it.

Yeah, he helps me in 3 ways immediately:

1) If he moves to another team

2) If DJax moves to another team

3) If....WHEN....DJax gets injured

So far i've gotten lucky with my tradedowns as my target turns in from a stretch to a good value pick and i've been lucky not to have one snagged from me.

 
I was watching the draft unfold and the guys sitting around at 10.16 weren't thrilling me, either because of age, injury, lack of track record, etc. Those things won't get better as the draft goes on, but I'll certainly be more comfortable picking them later with lower picks and I'm willing to watch a couple of guys I'd generally like have (L. Washington; TE A. Smith; Sean Jones; D. Bennett; HACKETT go off the board in the meantime.
Click to expand...
A pick of mine in the generally like to have department? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I kept waiting and waiting to grab Hackett...I waited too long. :banned:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
11th round's done:

Code: 
11.01 Jeff Pasquino Caldwell, Reche NEP WR 5:09:05 p.m. 11.02 Alex Fernandez Williamson, Troy MIN WR 7:35:07 p.m. 11.03 Marc Faletti Smith, Alex TBB TE 7:35:07 p.m. 11.04 Jeff Pasquino Bennett, Drew TEN WR 8:14:49 p.m. 11.05 Terry Winfree Jones, Sean CLE S 8:14:49 p.m. 11.06 Jake Parrish Hackett, D.J. SEA WR 8:14:49 p.m. 11.07 Aaron Rudnicki Curtis, Kevin STL WR 10:16:14 p.m. 11.08 Alex Fernandez Washington, Leon NYJ RB 10:16:14 p.m. 11.09 Carlos Rodrigues Bell, Mike DEN RB 7:07:32 a.m. 11.10 Derek Tonn Tillman, Charles CHI CB 7:07:32 a.m. 11.11 Ben Bregitzer Simms, Chris TBB QB 7:07:32 a.m. 11.12 Alex Fernandez Foster, De'shaun CAR RB 8:32:02 a.m. 11.13 Jake Parrish Warren, Ty NEP DE 8:54:38 a.m. 11.14 Chris Overton Graham, Daniel NEP TE 8:54:38 a.m. 11.15 Nick Chadick Battle, Arnaz SFO WR 9:16:26 a.m. 11.16 Will Grant Curry, Ronald OAK WR 9:16:26 a.m.
 
Its hard to follow this draft. All those stupid defensive players being drafted are scewing things. :rolleyes:

 
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