Reggie Brown and Mark Clayton (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

Both of these guys were looked at as having big potential heading into 2007 and were in a tier of WR's immediately after the proven guys and were in the 20-25 range and both disappointed big time.

However, both are only in their 4th year, both had relatively successful 2nd years, and both have opportunities to produce in 2008. What are you thoughts on them? Are these guys to buy low or is all hope lost after 1 bad year? Out of these 2, which guy has more upside?

 

[Almas_4th_Child]

I think Clayton has a better chance than Brown.

However, I don't think either will become elite and most owners will hold onto them waaay to long....see Michael Clayton.

 

[awesomeness]

I think Clayton has a better chance than Brown.

However, I don't think either will become elite and most owners will hold onto them waaay to long....see Michael Clayton.

 

[AsimoV]

Define "revival"...

 

[renesauz]

I think Clayton has a better chance than Brown.However, I don't think either will become elite and most owners will hold onto them waaay to long....see Michael Clayton.

Neither is in the Clayton mold...not even close.While I don't think either will ever be elite, both should become solid receivers. Mild dissapointments perhaps, but not true busts either. Certainly worth rostering in all but the smallest leagues. (And they would have to be very small.)

 

[EBF]

Clayton has a chance to be solid. Brown...

 

[JPeso]

Clayton has a chance to be solid. Brown...

 

[FUBAR]

I think Clayton has a better chance than Brown.

However, I don't think either will become elite and most owners will hold onto them waaay to long....see Michael Clayton.

3 stars. The ending was somewhat predictable, but overall a good movie.

 

[gianmarco]

I think Clayton has a better chance than Brown.

However, I don't think either will become elite and most owners will hold onto them waaay to long....see Michael Clayton.

3 stars. The ending was somewhat predictable, but overall a good movie.

Didn't like it

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

surprised at all the clayton love.

R.brown has been the better performer.

Both are entering their 4th season.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Clayton has a chance to be solid. Brown...

seriously based on what? talent? brown has more career yards and td's on less catches than clayton.

 

[EBF]

Clayton has a chance to be solid. Brown...

seriously based on what? talent? brown has more career yards and td's on less catches than clayton.

Brown is a journeyman waiting to happen. I think Clayton can become a Mason type. He is a much better player in spite of what the numbers might say.

 

[az_prof]

Clayton has a chance to be solid. Brown...

seriously based on what? talent? brown has more career yards and td's on less catches than clayton.

Brown is a journeyman waiting to happen. I think Clayton can become a Mason type. He is a much better player in spite of what the numbers might say.

There is room to be optimistic about both but I definitely like Brown's situation better with a healthy McNabb coming back. The last four weeks of the season after McNabb was finally 100 % he and Brown were connecting. If you normalize his production over the final four weeks for a 16 week season he would produce: 88 receptions, 1048 yards, 8 TDs. I believe that is very possible next year for Reggie.

 

[JPeso]

There is room to be optimistic about both but I definitely like Brown's situation better with a healthy McNabb coming back. The last four weeks of the season after McNabb was finally 100 % he and Brown were connecting. If you normalize his production over the final four weeks for a 16 week season he would produce: 88 receptions, 1048 yards, 8 TDs. I believe that is very possible next year for Reggie.

Possible? Yes, but normalizing stats like this can get you in to trouble come draft day.

 

[Kirby]

I think Clayton has a better chance than Brown.However, I don't think either will become elite and most owners will hold onto them waaay to long....see Michael Clayton.

Michael Clayton will return this year.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

There is room to be optimistic about both but I definitely like Brown's situation better with a healthy McNabb coming back. The last four weeks of the season after McNabb was finally 100 % he and Brown were connecting. If you normalize his production over the final four weeks for a 16 week season he would produce: 88 receptions, 1048 yards, 8 TDs. I believe that is very possible next year for Reggie.

Possible? Yes, but normalizing stats like this can get you in to trouble come draft day.

a mistake like taking Clayton over Reggie Brown at WR3 can be a big mistake on draft day too.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Clayton has a chance to be solid. Brown...

seriously based on what? talent? brown has more career yards and td's on less catches than clayton.

Brown is a journeyman waiting to happen. I think Clayton can become a Mason type. He is a much better player in spite of what the numbers might say.

your looking at it from a pure dynasty stand point and making decisions based on talent. based on past prodcution, this coming seasons QB play and opportunity Reggie Brown is the better pick for this coming up FF season. And Im not so sure that in dynasty Clayton is the better pick either although that more debatable

 

[eric rymer]

I personally prefer Clayton from a talent standpoint. No elaborate data to back it up though. However, I don't think Clayton's in a position where he will be productive. The Ravens offens will have to make a drastic change in order for that to happen. So, with that said, I would go with Brown. The Eagles O is alot more productive and someone will get the numbers. No real reason IMO to think that Brown couldn't possibly be that guy. I wouldn't want to count on either guy though.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

I'd take Brown over Clayton any day.

I'd rather have McNabb throwing to my WR than the scrubs in Baltimore.

 

[EBF]

I'm not going to get into a big long discussion on this topic. IMO Brown is pretty much a scrub. One of those guys who's just good enough to get some playing time, but never good enough to be useful to teams in FF leagues. I think we've seen the best he has to offer and I think there's a real chance Philadelphia brings in a prominent WR in the draft to push him.

I'm more optimistic about Clayton. He will never be a dominant number one WR, but he's capable of developing into a Mason or Houshmandzadeh type. He's a good possession WR. A lot of people were expecting a breakout last year. It didn't happen, but I don't think that's necessarily any fault of Clayton's. He was injured at the start of the season and from what I understand he never really got back to 100%. He has been rehabbing at the Ravens training facility and I look for him to come out a lot sharper next season. Given the fact that Mason is ancient and Williams is unproven, I think there's opportunity for Clayton to emerge as the team's primary target in the not-so-distant future.

 

[az_prof]

I'm not going to get into a big long discussion on this topic. IMO Brown is pretty much a scrub. One of those guys who's just good enough to get some playing time, but never good enough to be useful to teams in FF leagues. I think we've seen the best he has to offer and I think there's a real chance Philadelphia brings in a prominent WR in the draft to push him. I'm more optimistic about Clayton. He will never be a dominant number one WR, but he's capable of developing into a Mason or Houshmandzadeh type. He's a good possession WR. A lot of people were expecting a breakout last year. It didn't happen, but I don't think that's necessarily any fault of Clayton's. He was injured at the start of the season and from what I understand he never really got back to 100%. He has been rehabbing at the Ravens training facility and I look for him to come out a lot sharper next season. Given the fact that Mason is ancient and Williams is unproven, I think there's opportunity for Clayton to emerge as the team's primary target in the not-so-distant future.

Isn't there also a good chance that BA will draft someone to push Clayton, as you say?

 

[EBF]

I'm not going to get into a big long discussion on this topic. IMO Brown is pretty much a scrub. One of those guys who's just good enough to get some playing time, but never good enough to be useful to teams in FF leagues. I think we've seen the best he has to offer and I think there's a real chance Philadelphia brings in a prominent WR in the draft to push him. I'm more optimistic about Clayton. He will never be a dominant number one WR, but he's capable of developing into a Mason or Houshmandzadeh type. He's a good possession WR. A lot of people were expecting a breakout last year. It didn't happen, but I don't think that's necessarily any fault of Clayton's. He was injured at the start of the season and from what I understand he never really got back to 100%. He has been rehabbing at the Ravens training facility and I look for him to come out a lot sharper next season. Given the fact that Mason is ancient and Williams is unproven, I think there's opportunity for Clayton to emerge as the team's primary target in the not-so-distant future.

Isn't there also a good chance that BA will draft someone to push Clayton, as you say?

Anything is possible, but I haven't heard of Baltimore being linked to any WR prospects or free agents. I think they'll be content to enter next season with Clayton/Mason/Williams.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I'm not going to get into a big long discussion on this topic. IMO Brown is pretty much a scrub. One of those guys who's just good enough to get some playing time, but never good enough to be useful to teams in FF leagues. I think we've seen the best he has to offer and I think there's a real chance Philadelphia brings in a prominent WR in the draft to push him. I'm more optimistic about Clayton. He will never be a dominant number one WR, but he's capable of developing into a Mason or Houshmandzadeh type. He's a good possession WR. A lot of people were expecting a breakout last year. It didn't happen, but I don't think that's necessarily any fault of Clayton's. He was injured at the start of the season and from what I understand he never really got back to 100%. He has been rehabbing at the Ravens training facility and I look for him to come out a lot sharper next season. Given the fact that Mason is ancient and Williams is unproven, I think there's opportunity for Clayton to emerge as the team's primary target in the not-so-distant future.

Isn't there also a good chance that BA will draft someone to push Clayton, as you say?

Anything is possible, but I haven't heard of Baltimore being linked to any WR prospects or free agents. I think they'll be content to enter next season with Clayton/Mason/Williams.

One of the mocks posted around here (Kirwan's maybe?) had Sweed going to the Ravens in the 2nd, I think. I don't like that pick & hope it doesn't happen, as I think they have more pressing needs but if Ozzie has one of those WRs "fall" to him, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Sweet Love]

I like Clayton a bit better than Brown for the following reasons:

Brown has yet to "break through" with McNabb as his QB and I think taking that into account, he will be destined for 800 yards, 4-5 TD type years. Sure McNabb missed most of 2006, but the Iggles always had an adequate QB in the wings when McNabb was beset by injury (see Garcia). I also think McNabb can make a mediocre WR look good as even Todd Pinkston had a couple of decent years in Philly.

Clayton on the other hand, has had inconsistencies at QB and if the former coaching regime were still there, I would be cool on him too, but I think with the new staff he may get opportunities in a better system.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Mark Clayton is just as talented as Santonio Holmes IMO. Clayton needs to stay healthy and a credible QB to prove it though.

 

[EBF]

Mark Clayton is just as talented as Santonio Holmes IMO. Clayton needs to stay healthy and a credible QB to prove it though.

Holmes and Clayton were the two young receivers I was touting as good dynasty buys last offseason. I acquired them in multiple leagues. A year later Holmes is a very hot player. Almost half the teams in one of my leagues have tried to get him from me in a trade. In contrast, Clayton is as cold as ice. No one has inquired about him at all. I still like Clayton and think he's underrated. I see him bouncing back and becoming an FF WR2-WR3 type the vein of Laveranues Coles.I think Brown is junk. A couple teams have been trying to pawn him off to me for the last year or two. I have zero interest. IMO his days as a starter are numbered.

 

[thehornet]

i wouldnt draft either one of these guys as a WR4-5. I'd rather take a flier on a rookie.

 

[az_prof]

Mark Clayton is just as talented as Santonio Holmes IMO. Clayton needs to stay healthy and a credible QB to prove it though.

Holmes and Clayton were the two young receivers I was touting as good dynasty buys last offseason. I acquired them in multiple leagues. A year later Holmes is a very hot player. Almost half the teams in one of my leagues have tried to get him from me in a trade. In contrast, Clayton is as cold as ice. No one has inquired about him at all. I still like Clayton and think he's underrated. I see him bouncing back and becoming an FF WR2-WR3 type the vein of Laveranues Coles.

I think Brown is junk. A couple teams have been trying to pawn him off to me for the last year or two. I have zero interest. IMO his days as a starter are numbered.

It looks like it is a question of personal preference because I would much rather have Brown than Clayton. It depends upon how much value you place on what they have done (Brown has clearly done more) versus what you think they might be able to do. Here is what Andy Reid said about Brown's performance last year in a recent interview. To me, it confirms what I saw statistically--namely, that Brown improved toward the end of the year. At the same time, clearly Reid expects more consistency and so this is an important year for Brown. I don't get the impression that they are drafting someone to replace him, but it could be smoke.

The interview is from April 3, 2008

Q: How would you describe Reggie Brown's season last year?

A: I thought Reggie started off OK, and he progressively got better as the season went on. I thought he finished strong.

Q: Why did Brown struggle early in the season?

A: I don't know. I just know it wasn't working as well as it should work, but he got better. I think he needs to be consistent. I don't know if it was the pressure on him to be the No. 1 guy or whatever it was. I don't know, and I don't care. I just know he got better.

Q: Is Brown a better receiver than people think?

A: I think he's pretty good. He's quick. He can change direction, accelerate fast, and those are things that normally make you successful in this offense.

Q: Is it imperative that Brown get off to a good start in 2008?

A: Yeah, I think that's important, but I think consistency is the most important thing.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles..._Andy_Reid.html

 

[AnonymousBob]

It's not as though either guy is a rookie. I'll take the guy who has done something vs. the guy that has done nothing. Either way we're not looking at a fantasy stud but imo Brown is the better player to have, if only by default.

 

[finito]

It's not as though either guy is a rookie. I'll take the guy who has done something vs. the guy that has done nothing. Either way we're not looking at a fantasy stud but imo Brown is the better player to have, if only by default.

Which is the guy who has done nothing?Mark Clayton had 67 for 939 and 5 TDs his 2nd year.Reggie Brown's best year was his 2nd with 46 for 816 and 8 TDs. I don't see a huge disparity here between the two.

 

[EBF]

It's not as though either guy is a rookie. I'll take the guy who has done something vs. the guy that has done nothing. Either way we're not looking at a fantasy stud but imo Brown is the better player to have, if only by default.

Clayton's 939 receiving yards in 2006 is more than Brown has ever had in a single season. Reggie Brown is dog food. Three seasons with a Pro Bowl QB at the helm and the best he could do was 816 yards. What makes anyone think he will ever be a relevant FF performer? Clayton is not a lock for success, but I think he has a lot more potential moving forward.

 

[King of the Jungle]

It's not as though either guy is a rookie. I'll take the guy who has done something vs. the guy that has done nothing. Either way we're not looking at a fantasy stud but imo Brown is the better player to have, if only by default.

Clayton's 939 receiving yards in 2006 is more than Brown has ever had in a single season. Reggie Brown is dog food. Three seasons with a Pro Bowl QB at the helm and the best he could do was 816 yards. What makes anyone think he will ever be a relevant FF performer? Clayton is not a lock for success, but I think he has a lot more potential moving forward.

 

[rzrback77]

I think that both have been disappointing. But I really enjoyed EBF take on the majority that disagreed with his assessment of Reggie Brown. It does seem like several Eagle WRs have left Philly and really fallen off the map though. Almost everybody except Owens.

 

[baldbird]

I'd take Brown over Clayton any day.I'd rather have McNabb throwing to my WR than the scrubs in Baltimore.

I have to agree 100% I dont think eather will be that great but brown has more upside on a better team ..

 

[AnonymousBob]

Who will be throwing the ball to Brown next year?

Who will be throwing the ball to Clayton next year?

At this point in their respective careers I'll take McNabb over McNair.

 

[EBF]

A lot of short-sighted thinking going on here.

Brown is 27 years old. He's logged three full seasons with a Pro Bowl QB and he's failed to exceed 820 receiving yards in any one year. Look up the word "mediocre" in the dictionary and you'll see a nice portrait of Reggie Brown. This guy is totally worthless in a dynasty league because he's not good enough to help you win now and he doesn't have the upside to ever help you in the future. Frankly, I'll be surprised if he's still starting in 2010.

Clayton has by no means been an impact player, but his best season is better than Brown's and he's had the disadvantage of playing with two very mediocre passers. He was hobbled by injuries throughout the 2007 season. He should be healthy next season and his QB situation has nowhere to go but up. Factor in Mason's inevitable decline and there's some sneaky upside here. A lot more than there is with Brown, who will give you a useless 850 yards at best.

 

[Brutis]

These 2 are a junk sandwich. Hopefully people will get sucked into picking them in rd5 again this year.

 

[Bushead]

A lot of short-sighted thinking going on here.

Brown is 27 years old. He's logged three full seasons with a Pro Bowl QB and he's failed to exceed 820 receiving yards in any one year. Look up the word "mediocre" in the dictionary and you'll see a nice portrait of Reggie Brown. This guy is totally worthless in a dynasty league because he's not good enough to help you win now and he doesn't have the upside to ever help you in the future. Frankly, I'll be surprised if he's still starting in 2010.

Clayton has by no means been an impact player, but his best season is better than Brown's and he's had the disadvantage of playing with two very mediocre passers. He was hobbled by injuries throughout the 2007 season. He should be healthy next season and his QB situation has nowhere to go but up. Factor in Mason's inevitable decline and there's some sneaky upside here. A lot more than there is with Brown, who will give you a useless 850 yards at best.

To be fair he logged:2005 first 9 McNabb, next 7 Mike McMahon

2006 first 10 McNabb, next 6 Garcia

2007 first 10 McNabb, next 2 Feeley, final 4 McNabb

Not exactly a consistant situation at QB during his tenure

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

wow so EBF hates Reggie Brown got it

 

[renesauz]

Not sure why all the Brown hate. I mean, he's never going to be a fantasy #1...but to expect great numbers because he has a great QB are awfully short-sighted.

Philly has a west-coast offense and a team philosophy that calls for spreading the ball around, A LOT. McNabb has never been one to lock on to a specific receiver.

They fed T.O. that one year, but that is the only year under Reid that they ever really featured that sort of attack.

While I understand that many people had much higher hopes for him, I think a steady diet of 60/800/8 years are reasonable...and FAR FROM "dogmeat". That's borderline WR2/3 in most 12 team leagues.

I think Brown is a very safe WR for fantasy, with a fairly high floor. His ceiling, unfortunately, is not that much higher then his floor.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Anyone who is advocating a roster spot for Reggie Brown has never owned him.

 

[renesauz]

Anyone who is advocating a roster spot for Reggie Brown has never owned him.

So...in your 12 team leagues you are able to draft at LEAST THREE WR's who will post better then Brown, plus at least one more with significantly better upside?Come on guys...hate him if you want to, but let's at least try to be realistic. Some of us see him in the WR25-30 area. Others around WR45-50. Last I checked, WR45 is still a half decent bye week player in any start 3 league....far from dog meat, and certainly very worthy of a roster spot in MOST leagues.Let's start qualifying these statements. "He sucks" and he's dog-meat" might apply in a ten team start 2 league. Post some high and low side predictions, and compare those to his peers.I've stated what I expect..and it's nothing studly, but certainly serviceable.

 

[ravnzfan]

A lot of short-sighted thinking going on here.

Brown is 27 years old. He's logged three full seasons with a Pro Bowl QB and he's failed to exceed 820 receiving yards in any one year. Look up the word "mediocre" in the dictionary and you'll see a nice portrait of Reggie Brown. This guy is totally worthless in a dynasty league because he's not good enough to help you win now and he doesn't have the upside to ever help you in the future. Frankly, I'll be surprised if he's still starting in 2010.

Clayton has by no means been an impact player, but his best season is better than Brown's and he's had the disadvantage of playing with two very mediocre passers. He was hobbled by injuries throughout the 2007 season. He should be healthy next season and his QB situation has nowhere to go but up. Factor in Mason's inevitable decline and there's some sneaky upside here. A lot more than there is with Brown, who will give you a useless 850 yards at best.

Clayton never played 1 game in '07 'healthy'....ankle/foot were an issue every week--factor in the season the team had, and it's easy to hate Claytonat this point, a return anywhere close to '06 form and he outproduces what Brown has been able to accomplish...add that Curtis has another year in the system and is clearly the favorite WR in Philly, coupled w/Westy and at best RBrown is option 3

...while I don't have the data in front of me, Mason/Clayton were 1/1A in '06, as they shared the spotlight as the prefered target---Heap is the wild card here, as he gets as many targets as the 2 WR's when healthy...I'm not holding my breath on him

so, do we think Mason grabs 100+ w/a healthy Clayton accross from him?

I like Mason/Clayton 2 to share ~170 balls for ~ 2K/12 TD's, with Clayton actually outgaining Mason this season

if that happens, he'll outscore Brown by 20...so you guys go ahead and take Reggie over Clayton

 

[Uruk-Hai]

A lot of short-sighted thinking going on here.

Brown is 27 years old. He's logged three full seasons with a Pro Bowl QB and he's failed to exceed 820 receiving yards in any one year. Look up the word "mediocre" in the dictionary and you'll see a nice portrait of Reggie Brown. This guy is totally worthless in a dynasty league because he's not good enough to help you win now and he doesn't have the upside to ever help you in the future. Frankly, I'll be surprised if he's still starting in 2010.

Clayton has by no means been an impact player, but his best season is better than Brown's and he's had the disadvantage of playing with two very mediocre passers. He was hobbled by injuries throughout the 2007 season. He should be healthy next season and his QB situation has nowhere to go but up. Factor in Mason's inevitable decline and there's some sneaky upside here. A lot more than there is with Brown, who will give you a useless 850 yards at best.

Clayton never played 1 game in '07 'healthy'....ankle/foot were an issue every week--factor in the season the team had, and it's easy to hate Claytonat this point, a return anywhere close to '06 form and he outproduces what Brown has been able to accomplish...add that Curtis has another year in the system and is clearly the favorite WR in Philly, coupled w/Westy and at best RBrown is option 3

...while I don't have the data in front of me, Mason/Clayton were 1/1A in '06, as they shared the spotlight as the prefered target---Heap is the wild card here, as he gets as many targets as the 2 WR's when healthy...I'm not holding my breath on him

so, do we think Mason grabs 100+ w/a healthy Clayton accross from him?

I like Mason/Clayton 2 to share ~170 balls for ~ 2K/12 TD's, with Clayton actually outgaining Mason this season

if that happens, he'll outscore Brown by 20...so you guys go ahead and take Reggie over Clayton

I'm getting slightly different stats for Mason/Clayton's '06 depending on where I look, but looks like Mason had 112 targets for 68 catches & 750 yds. Clayton had 114 targets for 67 receptions & 939 yds (not including the playoff game). Mason had 2 TDs & Clayton had 5. I remember Mason complaining quite a bit during the '06 season that he wasn't getting enough throws his way, but it looks to me like Clayton did more with the same amount of opportunity.

 

[fantasyplayer]

Anyone who is advocating a roster spot for Reggie Brown has never owned him.

So...in your 12 team leagues you are able to draft at LEAST THREE WR's who will post better then Brown, plus at least one more with significantly better upside?Come on guys...hate him if you want to, but let's at least try to be realistic. Some of us see him in the WR25-30 area. Others around WR45-50. Last I checked, WR45 is still a half decent bye week player in any start 3 league....far from dog meat, and certainly very worthy of a roster spot in MOST leagues.Let's start qualifying these statements. "He sucks" and he's dog-meat" might apply in a ten team start 2 league. Post some high and low side predictions, and compare those to his peers.I've stated what I expect..and it's nothing studly, but certainly serviceable.

Great posting!