Reggie Bush ineligible? (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

No there's no specific rule I'd be concerned about, but all of them. Once you break the rules like this--if he's guilty by the way--it's easier to break rules in the future. Who knows what Bush might want in the future, but this type of behavior suggests he going to do whatever he feels like doing to get it. Now, in the interviews I've seen of him, I am shocked that he would do something like this. He seems like such a wise kid and this would not have been a smart this to do. I'm hoping it's BS.

And if it is true, like I said earlier I don't equate it to a serious felony, but if I'm going to make a player the centerpiece of my franchise, I would want to know he's not going to want special rules for him. And if I'm the Texans and already have DD maybe I think a little longer about D'Brick who has no such question around him. Either way, if I were the Texans, I'd have a lengthy phone call with Bush to figure this out.

Thanks Baracuda. That clears it up for me.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Why doesn't the NCAA look into LenDale hanging out with Snoop?  I'm sure he got "extra benefits" from him and Snoop owns a marketing compay.

To me, this is all nonsense.  The NCAA making millions off these guys but expects them to get nothing but tuition, room and board.  Yes, I realize that is worth a bit of money, but nowhere close to what the NCAA makes from using players.

You may be right about the inequity of the system cstu, but "rules are rules." Certainly we all have to abide by laws and rules of conduct that we may not agree are "fair" but are nevertheless legal and cause for punitive action if we violate them.At some point, maybe one of these athletes will take up the cause and bring this battle to court; but until that time comes, everyone knows what can and can't be done while on scholarship.

But if the rules aren't "fair", and you don't feel bound by moral obligation to follow them, all that's forcing you to obey is fear of punishment. And if the reward outweighs the punishment, what's to stop you?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Why doesn't the NCAA look into LenDale hanging out with Snoop? I'm sure he got "extra benefits" from him and Snoop owns a marketing compay.

To me, this is all nonsense. The NCAA making millions off these guys but expects them to get nothing but tuition, room and board. Yes, I realize that is worth a bit of money, but nowhere close to what the NCAA makes from using players.

You may be right about the inequity of the system cstu, but "rules are rules." Certainly we all have to abide by laws and rules of conduct that we may not agree are "fair" but are nevertheless legal and cause for punitive action if we violate them.At some point, maybe one of these athletes will take up the cause and bring this battle to court; but until that time comes, everyone knows what can and can't be done while on scholarship.

But if the rules aren't "fair", and you don't feel bound by moral obligation to follow them, all that's forcing you to obey is fear of punishment. And if the reward outweighs the punishment, what's to stop you?

Once you discount the punishment by the likelihood of getting caught, I wouldn't strongly disagree with anyone who said he made the right decision.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Here's some stuff on Swann...

http://www.ericmcerlain.com/offwingopinion..._2003_09_21.php

But two years before that 1993 agreement was signed, Eric Swann, a 300-pound defensive lineman who had been out of high school in Lillington, N.C., for only two years, was drafted by the Arizona Cardinals with the sixth pick in the first round of the 1991 draft.

Swann, who never enrolled in college, had been playing semipro football for the Bay State Titans, according to the Cardinals media guide, while lugging pipe for an electric company and running errands for a restaurant.

The three-year rule had been inserted in the N.F.L. constitution in 1990, but when Swann's eligibility for the draft developed in 1991, the N.F.L. was involved in other legal cases, notably those involving Freeman McNeil and Marvin Powell. It chose to ignore Swann's situation. Despite chronic knee injuries, Swann, a Pro Bowl alternate in 1993, endured for a decade with the Cardinals and the Carolina Panthers.

The N.F.L. will argue that Swann's arrival predated the 1993 collective bargaining agreement, but it remains a precedent that could haunt the league in the Clarett case. Why is the three-year rule so vital now, the judge may want to know, when Swann was out of high school for only two years when he was drafted?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'm lost as to what question he has to answer.

"Why'd you accept all this free money Reggie?"

"Because I needed it."

"Oh."

Or how 'bout "Why'd you accept $750,000 that you knew was at the very least inappropriate, Reggie?""Because I needed it."

"Oh....(pause)................You needed $750,000?"

"Ummmm....(big pause)...............................I think any further questions should be directed to my legal counsel. May I use a telephone?"

It gets kind of tiring hearing the justifications for all the wrongdoing that happens these days in this country in the name of "need" or "poverty". When you go to some truly poor areas of other countries, you realize how rich this country is, from top to bottom...how rich, in comparison, even the "poor" in America are, with a scarce few extreme exceptions.

The overwhelming majority of folks in this country who would call themselves "poor" if asked are only poor by a Western standard and no other. Many of what most Americans call "needs" are merely wants. Just because you live in an apartment doesn't mean you "need" a brand new 3000 sf house overlooking a lake in the suburbs. That is not "getting by". Even so-called "poor" Americans would run screaming out of a tenament in Mexico City or New Delhi, yet any father in one of those places would happily give his left nut to put his family in the worst housing project in LA.

As a firefighter, I participate yearly in Operation Blue Santa, which collects donated toys, food, and other items to give children a nice Christmas because their families are needy. I'd say a small fraction of the families we serve are truly in need, and most of those were nominated to the list by a friend. They would never ask for help. The rest leave the Christmas tree bare until we deliver the goods and a Turkey. We typically walk past the 2 new cars in the driveway, into the living room past the new furniture and deposit the Christmas items under the tree beside the 56" plasma tv with the xbox that's almost melted down from constant use.

Most of these folks don't live in the best parts of town, but they have more new cars, cutting edge electronics, leather furniture, cellphones, PDAs, and assorted other bling than the Firemen and Cops who are delivering their Christmas to them...and they're "needy"?

Yeah, I know this is a rant. So be it. Every time someone comes from a lower-middle-class or lower background and does wrong, I hear this same crap. It's yet another degradation of the values that made this country strong, it's outta hand, and it's just wrong.

P.S. Note that I don't know if Reggie did anything wrong here...nor am I claiming he did. But to just dismiss it all by saying "It's ok even if he did, 'cause he 'needed' it", is just BS imho.

 

[gump]

One question:

If USC forfeits their "04 title...who gets it?

Please tell me it isn't Auburn!

 

[P Boy]

You know, the more I think about this, if guilty, it does impact Reggie Bush's draft status. Not by a huge margin, but he now has a character question and maybe it makes the Texans slightly more likely to trade down or use it as leverage to lower his asking price. I'm not saying that Reggie drops far or at all, but it might affect which team takes him at #1 and how much $$$ he gets as a rookie.

I agree that this raises a character issue - it was one of my first thoughts. For the money I assume he'll be looking for, I'd be surprised if this doesn't affect his contract at least a bit.

 

[VTjkru]

Some of you guys are really devaluing the worth of a college education. A scholarship to a university is definitly fair for a football player. You not only get tuition paid for, room and board paid for, an excellent social infrastructure established, tutors on hand practically 24/7, time management skill, and basic life skills.

Also, everybody knows with a college education one can make a lot more money then without one. Everyone is thinking that the NFL is a sure bet but that could change in one play, one wrong step, or one wrong decision. With a college education, a player has a backup plan for life. Do college players really need to be paid on top of that?

 

[JAA]

I'm kinda surprised that none of you thinks that this:

Michaels – who is a member of the Sycuan Indian Tribe and works as a business development officer for the tribe's development corporation – failed to return multiple phone calls and was unavailable when Yahoo! Sports visited his home on three occasions this weekend.

The Sycuan tribe, which owns a casino and resort and is engaged in a number of business enterprises in the San Diego area, denied any knowledge of Michaels' relationship with the Bush family.

...at least has the potential to affect Reggie in the draft this weekend, especially when a quick google search found that Sycuan Resort and Casino was the sponsor for the Padres opening day on April 3rd. Who threw out the first pitch? Reggie Bush.I doubt it will hurt him much, if any, but it will no doubt raise a question in some GM's mind that will need an answer before Saturday.

Remember the PFT rumor about the Indian Reservation Blackmailing a prospect?

 

[Sinrman]

Sounds quite shady, but just like anything of this sort, it'll be swept under the carpet. He's too high-profile now. It's too close to the draft.

 

[JAA]

Sounds quite shady, but just like anything of this sort, it'll be swept under the carpet. He's too high-profile now. It's too close to the draft.

I cant believe folks werent onto this sooner? You are telling me with all the paporotzi stuff going on these days people dont keep tabs on the #1 pick in the NFL draft?

 

[kingmalaki]

If it's true, then it's wrong (as far as obeying the rules goes, which everyone else has to do). Lebron got in trouble for taking some free jerseys, and this wasn't from any type of agent. Members of the Fab 5 got in trouble (and Michigan had to forfeit games) for taking money. Yet Reggie's family can take a crib?

 

[B-Deep]

If it's true, then it's wrong (as far as obeying the rules goes, which everyone else has to do). Lebron got in trouble for taking some free jerseys, and this wasn't from any type of agent. Members of the Fab 5 got in trouble (and Michigan had to forfeit games) for taking money. Yet Reggie's family can take a crib?

If he's found ineligable...this is going to set people off...

would they take away his heisman and give it to vince?

 

[Boltman]

So if you add this with the story that he has not been drafted yet, but already plans to petition the NFL to wear the #5 jersey, does it show he thinks he is above the rules and the leagues? He obviously has all the talent in the world, but these things have to start raising the eyebrows of GMs.

Bush to petition league to were #5

 

[JohnDoe]

would they take away his heisman and give it to vince?

No. IIRC Mike Rozier signed with an agent before his senior season but kept it quiet all year long. The fact that it was revealed in the fall of 1984 (I remember a blurb in SI that was headlined something like "The year a pro won the Heisman"). The precident has been set.

 

[cstu]

I'm kinda surprised that none of you thinks that this:

Michaels – who is a member of the Sycuan Indian Tribe and works as a business development officer for the tribe's development corporation – failed to return multiple phone calls and was unavailable when Yahoo! Sports visited his home on three occasions this weekend.

The Sycuan tribe, which owns a casino and resort and is engaged in a number of business enterprises in the San Diego area, denied any knowledge of Michaels' relationship with the Bush family.

...at least has the potential to affect Reggie in the draft this weekend, especially when a quick google search found that Sycuan Resort and Casino was the sponsor for the Padres opening day on April 3rd. Who threw out the first pitch? Reggie Bush.I doubt it will hurt him much, if any, but it will no doubt raise a question in some GM's mind that will need an answer before Saturday.

Remember the PFT rumor about the Indian Reservation Blackmailing a prospect?

Chalk another one up to PFT. I never thought that one was true, let alone involving Bush.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'm kinda surprised that none of you thinks that this:

Michaels – who is a member of the Sycuan Indian Tribe and works as a business development officer for the tribe's development corporation – failed to return multiple phone calls and was unavailable when Yahoo! Sports visited his home on three occasions this weekend.

The Sycuan tribe, which owns a casino and resort and is engaged in a number of business enterprises in the San Diego area, denied any knowledge of Michaels' relationship with the Bush family.

...at least has the potential to affect Reggie in the draft this weekend, especially when a quick google search found that Sycuan Resort and Casino was the sponsor for the Padres opening day on April 3rd. Who threw out the first pitch? Reggie Bush.I doubt it will hurt him much, if any, but it will no doubt raise a question in some GM's mind that will need an answer before Saturday.

Remember the PFT rumor about the Indian Reservation Blackmailing a prospect?

Chalk another one up to PFT. I never thought that one was true, let alone involving Bush.

Actually, guys, I don't remember that. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[JAA]

I'm kinda surprised that none of you thinks that this:

Michaels – who is a member of the Sycuan Indian Tribe and works as a business development officer for the tribe's development corporation – failed to return multiple phone calls and was unavailable when Yahoo! Sports visited his home on three occasions this weekend.

The Sycuan tribe, which owns a casino and resort and is engaged in a number of business enterprises in the San Diego area, denied any knowledge of Michaels' relationship with the Bush family.

...at least has the potential to affect Reggie in the draft this weekend, especially when a quick google search found that Sycuan Resort and Casino was the sponsor for the Padres opening day on April 3rd. Who threw out the first pitch? Reggie Bush.I doubt it will hurt him much, if any, but it will no doubt raise a question in some GM's mind that will need an answer before Saturday.

Remember the PFT rumor about the Indian Reservation Blackmailing a prospect?

Chalk another one up to PFT. I never thought that one was true, let alone involving Bush.

Actually, guys, I don't remember that. Can anyone enlighten me?

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...dpost&p=4649598

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'm kinda surprised that none of you thinks that this:

Michaels – who is a member of the Sycuan Indian Tribe and works as a business development officer for the tribe's development corporation – failed to return multiple phone calls and was unavailable when Yahoo! Sports visited his home on three occasions this weekend.

The Sycuan tribe, which owns a casino and resort and is engaged in a number of business enterprises in the San Diego area, denied any knowledge of Michaels' relationship with the Bush family.

...at least has the potential to affect Reggie in the draft this weekend, especially when a quick google search found that Sycuan Resort and Casino was the sponsor for the Padres opening day on April 3rd. Who threw out the first pitch? Reggie Bush.I doubt it will hurt him much, if any, but it will no doubt raise a question in some GM's mind that will need an answer before Saturday.

Remember the PFT rumor about the Indian Reservation Blackmailing a prospect?

Chalk another one up to PFT. I never thought that one was true, let alone involving Bush.

Actually, guys, I don't remember that. Can anyone enlighten me?

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...dpost&p=4649598

Just read that, and...

 

[smcindoe]

Putting the ethics of breaking this rule aside...

Doesn't the fact that he would knowingly put his team's accomplishments at risk for financial gain raise some questions about his priorities? Doesn't exactly sound like a team-first guy.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Joe Chadd on ESPN radio right now saying Heisman people are meeting to decide what will happen if Reggie is ruled ineligible.

 

[P Boy]

Some of you guys are really devaluing the worth of a college education. A scholarship to a university is definitly fair for a football player. You not only get tuition paid for, room and board paid for, an excellent social infrastructure established, tutors on hand practically 24/7, time management skill, and basic life skills.

Also, everybody knows with a college education one can make a lot more money then without one. Everyone is thinking that the NFL is a sure bet but that could change in one play, one wrong step, or one wrong decision. With a college education, a player has a backup plan for life. Do college players really need to be paid on top of that?

also a very Out of state tuition, books, fees, room & board - sometimes for 5 years - ain't exactly chickenfeed.

And taking money from the progrmas will significantly screw other programs. Football programs often pay for some - or even all - of the other non-revenue sports, as well as providing funds for non-athletic scholarships. If you're going to pay the players above & beyond their free schooling, then you're going to have to take a lot away from areas that can't pay for themselves.

Not to mention what college football will turn into - which I have a strong suspicion would ruin what is a great, great game.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Some of you guys are really devaluing the worth of a college education.  A scholarship to a university is definitly fair for a football player.  You not only get tuition paid for, room and board paid for, an excellent social infrastructure established, tutors on hand practically 24/7, time management skill, and basic life skills. 

Also, everybody knows with a college education one can make a lot more money then without one.  Everyone is thinking that the NFL is a sure bet but that could change in one play, one wrong step, or one wrong decision.  With a college education, a player has a backup plan for life.  Do college players really need to be paid on top of that?

also a very Out of state tuition, books, fees, room & board - sometimes for 5 years - ain't exactly chickenfeed.

And taking money from the progrmas will significantly screw other programs. Football programs often pay for some - or even all - of the other non-revenue sports, as well as providing funds for non-athletic scholarships. If you're going to pay the players above & beyond their free schooling, then you're going to have to take a lot away from areas that can't pay for themselves.

Not to mention what college football will turn into - which I have a strong suspicion would ruin what is a great, great game.

also a very

 

[P Boy]

also a very

We seem to agree a lot. That makes you either a very smart person or my alias...

 

[Mr. Chumley]

Yahoo isn't know for their investigative reporting, but what could the consequences of this be? Could it effect Bush in this draft?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-b...=yhoo&type=lgns

Sorry if this has been posted already.

Ok, I skipped most of this this but I read in the Miami Herald where they said they buncovered the story. Who actually broke it?

 

[kingmalaki]

Some of you guys are really devaluing the worth of a college education. A scholarship to a university is definitly fair for a football player. You not only get tuition paid for, room and board paid for, an excellent social infrastructure established, tutors on hand practically 24/7, time management skill, and basic life skills.

Also, everybody knows with a college education one can make a lot more money then without one. Everyone is thinking that the NFL is a sure bet but that could change in one play, one wrong step, or one wrong decision. With a college education, a player has a backup plan for life. Do college players really need to be paid on top of that?

I may get flamed for this, but yes...I do think they deserve more. Sure, I place great value on a college education. But if I were a high-profile college athlete filling the stands (like Bush or Vince Young), I would happily trade my scholarship for a percentage of what they are making off of me, as long as the percentage > than the scholarship amount.Give me $500K and 90% of the time I can pay to go to whatever college I like, as long as I can get in. So in my opinion, the "a free eduction is worth more than 6 figures they could make" argument is silly. With a boatload of money, you can always put yourself through college if you choose. Actually the six figures is worth more as you would be able to pay for college and invest the rest, etc.

 

[gump]

Not the same case, but close:

Antonio Langham was ruled ineligible after the fact for the 1993 season when he signed with an agent before the season...and is still the owner the '93 Jim Thorpe award.

 

[RandyDB]

In a perfect world 3 things would happen.

First, the Pac 10 and NCAA would declare Reggie inelligible, declare that USC must forfeit their 2005 victories and lay heavy sanctions upon the university for 2006 and 2007.

Secondly, the Heisman committee would take the trophy away from Reggie and award it to someone more deserving, maybe Vince Young, or maybe BEVO.

Finally, USC could file a civil suit against Reggie and company for monetary damages suffered by the university and its football program.

To bad we don't live in a perfect world.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Some of you guys are really devaluing the worth of a college education. A scholarship to a university is definitly fair for a football player. You not only get tuition paid for, room and board paid for, an excellent social infrastructure established, tutors on hand practically 24/7, time management skill, and basic life skills.

Also, everybody knows with a college education one can make a lot more money then without one. Everyone is thinking that the NFL is a sure bet but that could change in one play, one wrong step, or one wrong decision. With a college education, a player has a backup plan for life. Do college players really need to be paid on top of that?

You can add up all the intangibles that a college education brings, and it still isn't in the ballpark of what college football players make for their universities. We're talking 100,000 seat stadiums packed to capacity, expensive tickets, huge alumni donations required to get the best seats, big TV contracts, merchandise sales... this is big business just like the NFL.Also, as far as the scholarships go... say you've got a star player with an IQ around 85. What good does it do to give him a big-time college education? Is he really going to absorb the material? He's probably going to have his homework done by tutors and his tests graded by athlete-friendly professors. At the end of the day, he's still stupid. He's not really going to be qualified to work in his field, and if he doesn't make it to pro football, he'd probably better serve society doing some sort of physical labor rather than working with his mind.

 

[Spartans Rule]

In a perfect world 3 things would happen.

First, the Pac 10 and NCAA would declare Reggie inelligible, declare that USC must forfeit their 2005 victories and lay heavy sanctions upon the university for 2006 and 2007.

That'll teach USC to... um... have players on its team who take benefits from agents who aren't connected to the university. We just can't have that going on. USC should be forced to drop football!I'm thinking maybe you have a little bias against USC, no?

Secondly, the Heisman committee would take the trophy away from Reggie and award it to someone more deserving, maybe Vince Young, or maybe BEVO.

Hmmm... I think I was on to something with that bias thing. But bias aside, you have a great idea here. Let's take the trophy rewarding the best player in college football away from the best player in college football and give it to a cow. Brilliant.

Finally, USC could file a civil suit against Reggie and company for monetary damages suffered by the university and its football program.

Reading this makes me want to hang myself.Reggie Bush makes millions for USC, they gave him a 15k-a-year education he'll probably never use, and you think THEY should sue HIM? Holy Christ. That may be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.

To bad we don't live in a perfect world.

I don't want to be anywhere near your perfect world.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Secondly, the Heisman committee would take the trophy away from Reggie and award it to someone more deserving, maybe Vince Young

This has already come up on some Texas boards, and elsewhere of course, and the consensus there is that we'd hope Young would politely decline the award. Really, who wants an award that comes with an asterisk. Doubt it'll come to that, though.

Let's take the trophy rewarding the best player in college football away from the best player in college football and give it to a cow. Brilliant.

Bevo's a steer, not a cow, but I get your point.

 

[RandyDB]

In a perfect world 3 things would happen.

First, the Pac 10 and NCAA would declare Reggie inelligible, declare that USC must forfeit their 2005 victories and lay heavy sanctions upon the university for 2006 and 2007.

That'll teach USC to... um... have players on its team who take benefits from agents who aren't connected to the university. We just can't have that going on. USC should be forced to drop football!I'm thinking maybe you have a little bias against USC, no?

My bias would be against players/institutions that don't follow the rules that other players/institutions are following

Secondly, the Heisman committee would take the trophy away from Reggie and award it to someone more deserving, maybe Vince Young, or maybe BEVO.

Hmmm... I think I was on to something with that bias thing. But bias aside, you have a great idea here. Let's take the trophy rewarding the best player in college football away from the best player in college football and give it to a cow. Brilliant.

I think the "best" player should certainly be able to follow simple rules put in place by the NCAA and the university.

Finally, USC could file a civil suit against Reggie and company for monetary damages suffered by the university and its football program.

Reading this makes me want to hang myself.Reggie Bush makes millions for USC, they gave him a 15k-a-year education he'll probably never use, and you think THEY should sue HIM? Holy Christ. That may be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.

USC's football program made millions long before Reggie ever "graced the gridiron" and it will make millions more after he is gone, provided his inability to follow rules does not result in sanctions against USC.

To bad we don't live in a perfect world.

I don't want to be anywhere near your perfect world.

I gather from your previous post here you would rather that player(or people in general) abide by rules they agree with and just ignore the ones they don't agree with.

 

[Donnybrook]

Didn't see this posted yet. per KFFL

NFL | Heisman committee not reacting to Bush investigation

Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:19:57 -0700

Suzanne Halliburton, of the Austin American-Statesman, reports the Heisman committee will wait until the investigation of USC RB Reggie Bush's family finishes before thinking about awarding the Heisman Trophy to someone else. Director of the Heisman Trust, Rob Whalen, said, "At this point, we're not in a position to do anything until we know all the facts. As far I know, I don't think we've ever even thought about it." Bush's family is accused of receiving improper benefits from a San Diego man looking to represent Bush's marketing interests. Bush told ESPN, "We have nothing to hide. When all is said and done . . . everyone will see we have done absolutely nothing wrong." He said his "parents leased a house like any other parent."

 

[gump]

That'll teach USC to... um... have players on its team who take benefits from agents who aren't connected to the university. We just can't have that going on. USC should be forced to drop football!

I'm thinking maybe you have a little bias against USC, no?

What does the connection with the university have to do with anything? Universities are responsible for the player as well as the parent, according to the all-mighty NCAA.ESPN LINK

"It's ultimately the institution's responsibility to make sure they (a student-athlete and family) are following our bylaws," NCAA spokesperson Jennifer Kearns said.

 

[P Boy]

That'll teach USC to... um... have players on its team who take benefits from agents who aren't connected to the university. We just can't have that going on. USC should be forced to drop football!

I'm thinking maybe you have a little bias against USC, no?

What does the connection with the university have to do with anything? Universities are responsible for the player as well as the parent, according to the all-mighty NCAA.ESPN LINK

"It's ultimately the institution's responsibility to make sure they (a student-athlete and family) are following our bylaws," NCAA spokesperson Jennifer Kearns said.

It should be noted that USC turned the violation into the NCAA itself when it found out. That should help mitigate the punishment.I heard Bush on the radio yesterday. He is firmly convinced (at least in public statements) that he & his family did absolutely nothing wrong. He also stated that he will continue to be a great guy and is looking forward to being the #1 pick in the NFL draft.

His whole attitude & posture came across as being concerned only with himself, arrogant. and at the very least exhibiting very poor judgment, and at the most simply brushing off as no concern to him what is a very obvious violation - which will affect his former college team & teammates, possibly significantly. Now, we all need to understand that all college football players get education & numerous reminders as to what things will create NCAA violations. This wasn't just some simple slip up "whoopsy". This was knowingly selling his athletic abilities to a promoter for the compensation of a house for his family to live in.

The more I'm seeing of Bush in the limelight, the less I'm liking him as a person and as a football player. Reggie appears to be all about Reggie, and the rest of the world be damned. God forbid, I'm getting awfully reminded of T.O.

 

[thayman]

That'll teach USC to... um... have players on its team who take benefits from agents who aren't connected to the university. We just can't have that going on. USC should be forced to drop football!

I'm thinking maybe you have a little bias against USC, no?

What does the connection with the university have to do with anything? Universities are responsible for the player as well as the parent, according to the all-mighty NCAA.ESPN LINK

"It's ultimately the institution's responsibility to make sure they (a student-athlete and family) are following our bylaws," NCAA spokesperson Jennifer Kearns said.

It should be noted that USC turned the violation into the NCAA itself when it found out. That should help mitigate the punishment.I heard Bush on the radio yesterday. He is firmly convinced (at least in public statements) that he & his family did absolutely nothing wrong. He also stated that he will continue to be a great guy and is looking forward to being the #1 pick in the NFL draft.

His whole attitude & posture came across as being concerned only with himself, arrogant. and at the very least exhibiting very poor judgment, and at the most simply brushing off as no concern to him what is a very obvious violation - which will affect his former college team & teammates, possibly significantly. Now, we all need to understand that all college football players get education & numerous reminders as to what things will create NCAA violations. This wasn't just some simple slip up "whoopsy". This was knowingly selling his athletic abilities to a promoter for the compensation of a house for his family to live in.

The more I'm seeing of Bush in the limelight, the less I'm liking him as a person and as a football player. Reggie appears to be all about Reggie, and the rest of the world be damned. God forbid, I'm getting awfully reminded of T.O.

Don't push the TO panic button yet......Lebron James got a Hummer while he was in high school.....and he seems like an ok kid....

 

[thayman]

Some of you guys are really devaluing the worth of a college education.  A scholarship to a university is definitly fair for a football player.  You not only get tuition paid for, room and board paid for, an excellent social infrastructure established, tutors on hand practically 24/7, time management skill, and basic life skills. 

Also, everybody knows with a college education one can make a lot more money then without one.  Everyone is thinking that the NFL is a sure bet but that could change in one play, one wrong step, or one wrong decision.  With a college education, a player has a backup plan for life.  Do college players really need to be paid on top of that?

I may get flamed for this, but yes...I do think they deserve more. Sure, I place great value on a college education. But if I were a high-profile college athlete filling the stands (like Bush or Vince Young), I would happily trade my scholarship for a percentage of what they are making off of me, as long as the percentage > than the scholarship amount.Give me $500K and 90% of the time I can pay to go to whatever college I like, as long as I can get in. So in my opinion, the "a free eduction is worth more than 6 figures they could make" argument is silly. With a boatload of money, you can always put yourself through college if you choose. Actually the six figures is worth more as you would be able to pay for college and invest the rest, etc.

Yeah......so give an 18 year old kid $500,000 put him on a college campus, where he has nothing to do but party, and lets see what happens......Man maybe you should send that idea to Fox, could be a great reality show.

 

[kingmalaki]

Some of you guys are really devaluing the worth of a college education.  A scholarship to a university is definitly fair for a football player.  You not only get tuition paid for, room and board paid for, an excellent social infrastructure established, tutors on hand practically 24/7, time management skill, and basic life skills. 

Also, everybody knows with a college education one can make a lot more money then without one.  Everyone is thinking that the NFL is a sure bet but that could change in one play, one wrong step, or one wrong decision.  With a college education, a player has a backup plan for life.  Do college players really need to be paid on top of that?

I may get flamed for this, but yes...I do think they deserve more. Sure, I place great value on a college education. But if I were a high-profile college athlete filling the stands (like Bush or Vince Young), I would happily trade my scholarship for a percentage of what they are making off of me, as long as the percentage > than the scholarship amount.Give me $500K and 90% of the time I can pay to go to whatever college I like, as long as I can get in. So in my opinion, the "a free eduction is worth more than 6 figures they could make" argument is silly. With a boatload of money, you can always put yourself through college if you choose. Actually the six figures is worth more as you would be able to pay for college and invest the rest, etc.

Yeah......so give an 18 year old kid $500,000 put him on a college campus, where he has nothing to do but party, and lets see what happens......Man maybe you should send that idea to Fox, could be a great reality show.

Just because you are 18 doesn't mean you are gonna blow all of your money. And I find it hard for anyone to argue that a "free education" (that you are really working for) is > $500K. What school costs $500K over 4 years?The bottom line is if you give the kids money then the scholarship isn't needed.

 

[dickey moe]

Lebron James got a Hummer while he was in high school.....and he seems like an ok kid....

 

[Bevo]

Secondly, the Heisman committee would take the trophy away from Reggie and award it to someone more deserving, maybe Vince Young, or maybe BEVO.

Gee thanks! I would gladly accept the Heisman and would treasure it forever!

 

[P Boy]

Just because you are 18 doesn't mean you are gonna blow all of your money. And I find it hard for anyone to argue that a "free education" (that you are really working for) is > $500K. What school costs $500K over 4 years?

First off, did you live with your parents through college? Give an 18 yr old that kind of scratch in a target rich environment like a college campus, and watch what happens! Seriously, what world do you live in?Secondly, over the course of a lifetime with the head start that a college degree gets you (providing that it isn't in broadcast history or some other such bunny-loaded major), it's easily worth $500,000 or more.

 

[P Boy]

And I find it hard for anyone to argue that a "free education" (that you are really working for) is > $500K. What school costs $500K over 4 years?

Here you go, sport. Hard to believe that this has to be documented & argued.Link to a clue

According to the Census Bureau, over an adult's working life, high school graduates earn an average of $1.2 million; associate's degree holders earn about $1.6 million; and bachelor's degree holders earn about $2.1 million (Day and Newburger, 2002).

OTHER BENEFITS OF HIGHER EDUCATION

College graduates also enjoy benefits beyond increased income. A 1998 report published by the Institute for Higher Education Policy reviews the individual benefits that college graduates enjoy, including higher levels of saving, increased personal/professional mobility, improved quality of life for their offspring, better consumer decision making, and more hobbies and leisure activities (Institute for Higher Education Policy, 1998). According to a report published by the Carnegie Foundation, non-monetary individual benefits of higher education include the tendency for postsecondary students to become more open-minded, more cultured, more rational, more consistent and less authoritarian; these benefits are also passed along to succeeding generations (Rowley and Hurtado, 2002). Additionally, college attendance has been shown to "decrease prejudice, enhance knowledge of world affairs and enhance social status" while increasing economic and job security for those who earn bachelor's degrees (Ibid.)

Research has also consistently shown a positive correlation between completion of higher education and good health, not only for oneself, but also for one's children. In fact, "parental schooling levels (after controlling for differences in earnings) are positively correlated with the health status of their children" and "increased schooling (and higher relative income) are correlated with lower mortality rates for given age brackets" (Cohn and Geske, 1992).

THE SOCIAL VALUE OF HIGHER EDUCATION

A number of studies have shown a high correlation between higher education and cultural and family values, and economic growth. According to Elchanan Cohn and Terry Geske (1992), there is the tendency for more highly educated women to spend more time with their children; these women tend to use this time to better prepare their children for the future. Cohn and Geske (1992) report that "college graduates appear to have a more optimistic view of their past and future personal progress."

 

[kingmalaki]

Just because you are 18 doesn't mean you are gonna blow all of your money.  And I find it hard for anyone to argue that a "free education" (that you are really working for) is > $500K.  What school costs $500K over 4 years?

First off, did you live with your parents through college? Give an 18 yr old that kind of scratch in a target rich environment like a college campus, and watch what happens! Seriously, what world do you live in?Secondly, over the course of a lifetime with the head start that a college degree gets you (providing that it isn't in broadcast history or some other such bunny-loaded major), it's easily worth $500,000 or more.

Yes, a college education is worth more than $500K. However, if you give a kid $500K then they don't need your scholarship. They can pay their own way to school and still have money left over. It seems like your whole argument assumes they will blow the money.Again, $500K > free scholarship, as you can pay for college yourself.

 

[Donnybrook]

The plot thickens...

NFL | More about R. Bush situationThu, 27 Apr 2006 21:45:22 -0700ESPN's Joe Schad reports the NFL investigated the fact that agent David Caravantes and marketing company New Era Sports tried to force USC RB Reggie Bush to pay $3.2 million to them after Bush would not sign with him and his firm to represent him as an agent. Caravantes allegedly threatened to release "embarrassing" information about the Bush family if the money was not paid. Sources also say Caravantes tried to evict the family from a San Diego house they rented from his business associate Michael Michaels. A source close to Bush said NFL security has contacted the four teams at the top of the NFL Draft to tell them Bush was a victim of the threats.

 

[Baracuda]

The other problem with paying college athletes for playing is colleges would have to bid for players. This would essentially turn college into a professional league, which is not its purpose. College is an institution that is supposed to train smart high school kids and prepare them as professionals for their first job (doctor, accountant, NFL pro-bowler, lawyer, etc). In the case of paying them salaries of $100K or more, the small/mid sized schools would be squeezed out by colleges with larger resources. Actually, with an endowment of over a billion, Harvard would dominate. And nobody wants to see that!

Obviously, colleges don't have to pay the students because they set the rules for all of the conduct at their schools, along with the NCAA, of course. This applies to everyone--all students must abide by the rules or risk being kicked out.

A fair middle ground might be that players are entitled to a small royalty based on apparel sales with their number on it. You could make the argument that the only reason a fan is buying the shirt is because of the player. Though, here again we run into big school bias, which is problematic.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Looks like the Bush's did NOT pay rent:

Homeowner alleges Bush family paid no rent

By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports

April 27, 2006

Charles Robinson

Yahoo! Sports Exclusive

Michael Michaels, who owns the Spring Valley, Calif., home in which Reggie Bush's family lived for nearly a year, said Thursday he will file a $3.2 million lawsuit for fraud against the Bush family Friday to recoup unpaid rent and other finances given to the USC star's family.

Michaels' attorney, Brian Watkins, alleged Thursday night that Bush's mother and stepfather, Denise and LaMar Griffin, failed to pay $54,000 in rent for the home that has become the center of a joint Pacific 10 Conference and NCAA investigation. Watkins also said that Michaels supplied money to the Bush family, including financing that allowed them to travel to several USC road games last season.

Not paying rent and taking cash from Michaels could constitute extra benefits and a violation of NCAA rules by Reggie Bush. Student-athletes, their friends and relatives are prohibited from receiving extra benefits from professional sports agents, marketing companies or their representatives. A breach of these statutes could result in an athlete being ruled ineligible, and games in which they played could be forfeited.

According to Watkins, Michaels became involved with the Bush family after LaMar Griffin and Lloyd Lake sought to establish New Era Sports & Entertainment – with Reggie Bush as a future client – in November 2004, prior to the Trojans winning that season's national championship.

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Watkins said Michaels' role in New Era Sports was that of primary investor, and that Michaels' relationship with the family fell apart in recent months – after Bush signed with agent Joel Segal and didn't make good on a commitment to join New Era.

"There was an agreement that they weren't supposed to live free and mooch in that house," Watkins said of Bush's family. "They were supposed to pay rent. But they never paid one dime. Their premise for not paying was that, ‘Next month, we'll pay you. Next month we'll pay you.'

"Then it got to the extent where they were saying, ‘Well, don't worry about it, it's all guaranteed because we're going to be owners of this marketing and agency business, we'll give it to you out of our profits.' Twelve months passed by in that house, and not one dollar was paid."

Said Michaels: "They took advantage of me."

Reggie Bush has denied knowledge of any deal his family may have had with Michaels.

Watkins said that after New Era Sports & Entertainment failed as a business, Michaels sought to recoup $300,000 in back rent and other finances spent while establishing New Era over the course of the last 12 months. The attorney said his claims will be documented by different forms of communication collected in recent months.

Watkins said he had been negotiating a settlement with Bush's lawyer, David Cornwell, for the last three to four months, but moved to evict the Bush family from the home in early April.

"Reggie said that, oh, he found them a nicer house and that's why they moved, but the truth is I served them with an eviction notice," Watkins said. "They did not pay any rent. To this date, they haven't paid any rent. We haven't even gotten the keys back from the house. That's what is going on here."

During a 40-minute interview, Watkins laid out a timeline for the rise and fall of New Era Sports & Entertainment, along with the relationship between Michaels and the Bush family. Among the significant points alleged:

* November 2004 – LaMar Griffin and Lake approached Michaels about investing in the sports agency. Watkins said Michaels met Reggie Bush and his family for the first time around this date, and was led to believe that the agency would eventually have Bush as a client.

"There was the representation that Reggie would come with his stepfather," Watkins said. "Reggie ratified that."

Shortly thereafter, Michaels introduced Griffin to the Sycuan Indian Tribe's governing council, at which time Griffin asked the tribe – while wearing a Reggie Bush USC jersey – to become investors in the agency. After the tribe declined, it was agreed that the partnership in the agency would be a three-way split between Michaels, Lake and Bush's family, according to Watkins.

* April 2005 – Michaels allowed the Bush family to move into a new home he had purchased in Spring Valley. The rent for staying at the home was to have been $4,500 a month, according to Watkins.

"LaMar and Denise had financial problems," Watkins said. "Then it became, ‘Oh, we need a little something. We need a little money here, we need a little money there. But don't worry, it will all be paid back with our profits from the business.' They were saying this to Michael, who was carrying the lion's share of the money put into New Era. Michael Michaels had purchased a home, and hadn't rented it out. Around this time, the Griffin family needed a place to live. Michael Michaels let them move into the house."

* September 2005 through November, 2005 – Michaels provided money to help the Bush family travel to some road games during USC's season. Watkins did not specify the exact amounts given or the dates of travel to Yahoo! Sports.

"Yes, there was support there," Watkins said. "The [Griffins] said ‘Don't worry about it. We'll pay it all back. It's all part of the business.'"

* October 2005– Michaels and Lake contact San Diego-based agent David Caravantes about a role with New Era Sports & Entertainment. Michaels and Lake offered to facilitate an interview with the Bush family.

* November 2005 – Reports surface that Bush and his family are being advised by Reebok consultant Mike Ornstein.

* December 2005 to January 2006 – Communication breaks down between Michaels and the Bush family. Bush hires agent Joel Segal by mid-January. With New Era out of the picture, Michaels considers ways to recoup his investment from the Bush family. "It fell apart when all of the sudden, LaMar Griffin and Denise would not return phone calls," Watkins said. "Voicemail messages, wouldn't return phone calls – they are missing in action."

* April 2005 – Yahoo! Sports approached Denise Griffin about the home April 20. Less than 24 hours later, the family began packing up the house and the residence was vacated by April 22. One day later, Yahoo! Sports published a report about the house, including information that USC had requested a Pac-10 inquiry.

The allegations by Watkins and Michaels conflict with some recent statements by Reggie Bush and his camp. Bush has denied knowing the financial arrangement between Michaels and his parents for the Spring Valley home, and also denied ever having an agreement in place to join New Era Sports.

Bush, who is expected to be the No. 1 pick in this weekend's draft, declined to answer questions about the rental agreement again on Thursday, when several top prospects met with the media in New York.

According to Watkins, the $300,000 figure "includes rent for the house and everything else" provided by Michaels. The remainder of the $3.2 million in the suit is for punitive damages.

"We're going to contend that they never planned to go forward with this [agency]," Watkins said. "They knew it was just a ruse. They were taking money and taking money and LaMar put very little work into it. It ended up being Michael Michaels and Lloyd Lake doing all the leg work – Michael Michaels and Lloyd Lake giving all money and everything."

ESPN.com, quoting anonymous sources, reported Thursday night that the NFL Players Assn. and NFL Security had each independently concluded that Caravantes and New Era had used Watkins to demand $3.2 million from Bush. A source told ESPN that the NFLPA had filed a disciplinary complaint Thursday alleging that Watkins engaged in unlawful conduct by demanding payment in three letters dated Feb. 13, March 7 and April 26.

A source close to Bush also told ESPN that NFL Security has contacted the top four teams in the NFL draft and told them Bush was the victim of threats.

Watkins said the extortion claims were the last straw for Michaels, his client for the lawsuit.

"Let me be clear about this: We never wanted to do this in the press," Watkins said. "I was going to file the lawsuit after the draft so it didn't create a hoopla. I figured, after the draft, if he gets his big contract, Reggie is more likely to settle, because he knows they owe this money. They defrauded my client. [Michaels] did all the work, gave the lion's share of the money.

"The only reason we went public now is because the allegations have gotten so outrageous that I have to speak. When someone throws out the word ‘extortion', we've got to speak. All that other bashing, we took it like men and smiled and prepared the lawsuit. Until they came out with this allegation of extortion. They brought this to the press. We didn't bring this to the press. We're going to be the plaintiffs in the case. They are going to be the defendants."

Link

 

[roadkill1292]

I love this story. So much greed and deception, it's like an inheritance battle.

 

[gump]

"LaMar and Denise had financial problems," Watkins said. "Then it became, ‘Oh, we need a little something. We need a little money here, we need a little money there."

 

[Spartans Rule]

The other problem with paying college athletes for playing is colleges would have to bid for players. This would essentially turn college into a professional league, which is not its purpose. College is an institution that is supposed to train smart high school kids and prepare them as professionals for their first job (doctor, accountant, NFL pro-bowler, lawyer, etc). In the case of paying them salaries of $100K or more, the small/mid sized schools would be squeezed out by colleges with larger resources. Actually, with an endowment of over a billion, Harvard would dominate. And nobody wants to see that!

Obviously, colleges don't have to pay the students because they set the rules for all of the conduct at their schools, along with the NCAA, of course. This applies to everyone--all students must abide by the rules or risk being kicked out.

A fair middle ground might be that players are entitled to a small royalty based on apparel sales with their number on it. You could make the argument that the only reason a fan is buying the shirt is because of the player. Though, here again we run into big school bias, which is problematic.

Money is already by far the #1 factor that drives recruiting, and big schools are already crushing the little schools in that regard. I'm not talking about illegal recruiting either, although that certainly goes on.The schools that get the best players are the ones with the biggest stadiums, the nicest football buildings, the biggest travel budgets to fly around the country and kiss up to recruits.

The same schools that dominate now would continue to dominate, because they're the ones spending the money. Allowing it to go directly to players won't change the power structure. Harvard would not dominate. If they wanted to dominate sports, those endowment funds would already be pouring in to the athletic program.

You can certainly make the case that paying players would be an unsavory system, but would it really be any worse than what we have now? The top high school athletes get harassed by endless streams of mail, phone calls, recruiters chasing them everywhere they go. If it comes down to numbers, the process will be much simpler.

 

[bagger.]

In a perfect world 3 things would happen.

First, the Pac 10 and NCAA would declare Reggie inelligible, declare that USC must forfeit their 2005 victories and lay heavy sanctions upon the university for 2006 and 2007.

That'll teach USC to... um... have players on its team who take benefits from agents who aren't connected to the university. We just can't have that going on. USC should be forced to drop football!I'm thinking maybe you have a little bias against USC, no?

My bias would be against players/institutions that don't follow the rules that other players/institutions are following

Secondly, the Heisman committee would take the trophy away from Reggie and award it to someone more deserving, maybe Vince Young, or maybe BEVO.

Hmmm... I think I was on to something with that bias thing. But bias aside, you have a great idea here. Let's take the trophy rewarding the best player in college football away from the best player in college football and give it to a cow. Brilliant.

I think the "best" player should certainly be able to follow simple rules put in place by the NCAA and the university.

Finally, USC could file a civil suit against Reggie and company for monetary damages suffered by the university and its football program.

Reading this makes me want to hang myself.Reggie Bush makes millions for USC, they gave him a 15k-a-year education he'll probably never use, and you think THEY should sue HIM? Holy Christ. That may be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.

USC's football program made millions long before Reggie ever "graced the gridiron" and it will make millions more after he is gone, provided his inability to follow rules does not result in sanctions against USC.

To bad we don't live in a perfect world.

I don't want to be anywhere near your perfect world.

I gather from your previous post here you would rather that player(or people in general) abide by rules they agree with and just ignore the ones they don't agree with.

Why are you posting in blue?