Reggie Bush's size has not had any success (1 Viewer)

[WhoDat]

No way he gains 13 pounds before the start of the season? Do you guys know what it entails to put on that much weight and make it productive weight? I mean he could just strap on to 5 lb plates to his chest and back with the way you guys are talking. Maybe, and I mean maybe in 2 years he could pack on 13 pounds.

You are incorrect. He could easily add 10 pounds of productive weight between now and September with the help of an NFL conditioning coach; chef and diet tech. Anything above 13 might be pushing to but 10 pounds is well within reason.

 

[Blackjacks]

If DD can put up over 4,000 yards of offense and 28 td's in the past three year I'm looking forward to seeing what Bush can do. (DD has only played in 40 games over that time as well.)

Avg. 100 yards a game

 

[cstu]

EBF, good post.

I am not ready to bronze the kid's bust and put him in Canton. There is a lot of football left to be played but what I cannot believe is the number of people...high number of people...that are getting that deep into the weeds regarding Bush's size.

There is something extremely significant to the fact that NFL scouts are predicting he scores a 7-8 on his scorecard. That...just...does...not...happen. Again, someone please clue me in on what you see that 32 scouting departments do not see. Honest question.

EBF hit on something.. Bush will be used in multiple ways on offense. He is not going to run Study Body Left and Study Body Right 25 times per game. Given his size and speed, he is far too quick to be guarded by a LB, S or CB in pass coverage. The LB is too big and will quickly loose him. The S is too slow. The CB is to small. Bush in space versus a lone defender is going to cause DC nightmares next fall.

Bush becomes a major problem if he trots out of the backfield and into the slot against man coverage. He is going to cause mismatch problems especially if D. Davis is left in the backfield, assuming Bush does go to the Texans.

He will be an impact football player. Now, he might not be a 25 TD FF darling but interms of actual football success the kid is going to be good.

I think too many people think in terms of FF rather than real football. On the field, Bush will frustrate defenses the way Faulk did. He's got enough size to run between the tackles but it's his talent receiving that will make him a dangerous weapon. It's not easy to defend a team who has a RB who can run and receive since LB's can't be too aggressive against the run. That lack of aggressiveness will allow Bush to get more yards rushing than people expect. If defenses are too aggressive on the ruh it will open up passing to either Bush on a dumpoff or to the WR's. It's Bush's speed and explosiveness to disrupt defenses that the Texans have been missing with DD.

 

[cws3030]

Finally, keep in mind that he's only 21. It would be foolish to assume that he'll grow, but it would also be foolish to assume that a 21 year-old lacks the potential to gain weight.

couldn't agree more...while i don't have reggie in the HoF just yet, i think he will weigh over 214 come the start of the season.

No way he gains 13 pounds before the start of the season? Do you guys know what it entails to put on that much weight and make it productive weight? I mean he could just strap on to 5 lb plates to his chest and back with the way you guys are talking. Maybe, and I mean maybe in 2 years he could pack on 13 pounds.

i don't see why he couldn't put the wight on from now till august, when training camp starts. I'll give u maybe not all the 13 but he could get darn closeWhen was the weigh in that has him at 201? Is from the combine?

I'll be curious to see his weight on Pro Day.

 

[Liquid Tension]

No way he gains 13 pounds before the start of the season? Do you guys know what it entails to put on that much weight and make it productive weight? I mean he could just strap on to 5 lb plates to his chest and back with the way you guys are talking. Maybe, and I mean maybe in 2 years he could pack on 13 pounds.

You are incorrect. He could easily add 10 pound

s of productive weight between now and September with the help of an NFL conditioning coach; chef and diet tech. Anything above 13 might be pushing to but 10 pounds is well within reason.

Now how is this wrong? 5% increase in his body weight on that frame will be very tough, let alone in less than a year. Let me out it to another way. I would bet $5,000 that he doesn't start the year 10 pounds heavier.

 

[cstu]

No way he gains 13 pounds before the start of the season? Do you guys know what it entails to put on that much weight and make it productive weight? I mean he could just strap on to 5 lb plates to his chest and back with the way you guys are talking. Maybe, and I mean maybe in 2 years he could pack on 13 pounds.

You are incorrect. He could easily add 10 pound

s of productive weight between now and September with the help of an NFL conditioning coach; chef and diet tech. Anything above 13 might be pushing to but 10 pounds is well within reason.

Now how is this wrong? 5% increase in his body weight on that frame will be very tough, let alone in less than a year. Let me out it to another way. I would bet $5,000 that he doesn't start the year 10 pounds heavier.

I take it you're not a weight lifter. 10lbs. of hard muscle is VERY easy to put on with the right nutrition (and legal supplements) if someone trains to build on muscle mass. I'd say to this point Bush has always tried to stay small and quick since it suited him in college. However, if he sees that he needs to bulk up for the NFL he will do it. I can't believe the nonsense about it being hard to put on muscle, especially for an athlete like Bush.

 

[WhoDat]

Under guidance by an NFL trainer and the team's medical and nutritional staff I he will gain 8-10 pounds before September. As I stated, 13 would be a stretch but 10 pounds is completely possible.

If I was able to gain 12 pounds of lean, muscle mass in a 5 month program at a D1 school nearly 20 years ago, then I am fully confident Bush will have no problem adding that weight to his frame between now and September, given the advances in sports sciences. The fact the chef and diet tech get involved will augment this process significantly.

10 pounds...easy.

13 pounds or higher of useful weight...I agree with you.

 

[TheLaw]

Nothing to see here.  It's not like Bush is a midget.  Other notables include . . .

Barry Sanders 5'8", 200

Walter Payton 5'10", 202

Warrick Dunn 5'9", 180

Thurman Thomas 5'10", 200

IIRC, Tony Dorsett played at under 200 lbs.

He forgot those guys I guess.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Their use to be a great free article written by a fan at the following link but I don't see it there any longer.

http://www.ffmastermind.com/articles.php

I saved part of it becuase it had such great insights, I didn't save the entire article but here are some of better portions.

... determine the most significant implications of predicting the RB position. The first and most important of the three significance implications of the RB position is likelihood of injury.

There is a method in which any individual can, with a high degree of accuracy, estimate the likelihood of injury to any NFL running back. While there is no clear cut method that is infallible, there are several factors that will determine the preseason production value of a RB when predicting their injury likelihood. Those factors include touches (carries and receptions), past injury, age, size, and projected use.

We will begin by analyzing and breakin’ down “touches”, which is the most important of these five factors and includes carries and receptions by a running back.

... there is no magic number or rule surrounding fantasy football with RB touches such as the 3 year wide receiver rule, I believe there certainly should be one. The first major red flag is the 400 touch plateau. Very few RBs yearly have the ability to make it to the 400 plus touches plateau in the NFL in a year, but for those who do, beware.

The next one year plateau of touches to be aware of is 370 touches or more.

After two consecutive years, any starting back totaling over 730 touches and especially those backs totaling over 800 touches, are in extreme danger of a significant injury or nagging injuries in the third year. Although the real plateau to be worried about is over 800 touches in 2 years time, as is documented above, there have been several backs having between 730-800 touches after two years, who have struggled to stay healthy in the following season.

... the importance of past injury, age, size, and projected use when it comes to injury projections. Past injury should vastly determine the likelihood-of-injury scale

Age may be the most obvious of the five factors with the over 30 rule being pretty sound. For those of you in the woods, if a back is over 30, be very careful and handcuff him accordingly. Size is also a “no brainer” as a factor when it comes to a RB injury. If a RB is small in both height and weight, the odds go up. Another important factor within the realm of size is the lanky RB (tall in height, light in weight). Running backs Chris Brown (6-3, 219) and DeShaun Foster (6-0, 222) should immediately come to mind. They are prime examples of a RB with too much height, not enough weight, and most importantly an upright running style. There are very few taller backs that stay alive running upright in the NFL.

The last factor, projected use, ties in heavily with the first factor of touches. For instance, Clinton Portis had 383 touches in 2004 for the Washington Redskins. In 2005, the projections for touches would suggest he would have a similar number, thus decreasing the likelihood of him making it through ‘05 starting more than 12 games. A prime example of this is last year with both Priest Holmes and Jamal Lewis, both of whom had a ton of touches in 2004 (Holmes 394 and Lewis 413). Most NFL experts expected both backs to carry the load for their teams in 2005, however both ended up missing significant time in 2005 as already documented.

Bush is on the leaner lanky side but his running style and projected useage won't place him at the high risk that other RBs of his build have. Also another unrelated article that no longer exists from the same sight had this blurb on age of RBs with average carries which factors into use.

Age - Car --- Avg Yds -- YPC -- TD

21: - 208: ------- 910 -- 4.4 -- 7.0

22: - 200: ------- 871 -- 4.3 -- 6.5

23: - 212: ------- 924 -- 4.4 -- 6.8

24: - 248: ------ 1,099 - 4.4 -- 7.9

25: - 270: ------ 1,163 - 4.3 -- 8.5

26: - 274: ------ 1,167 - 4.3 -- 8.4

27: - 264: ------ 1,100 - 4.2 -- 7.8

28: - 243: ------ 1,006 - 4.1 -- 6.9

29: - 223: ------- 925 -- 4.2 -- 6.7

30: - 188: ------- 756 -- 4.0 -- 5.7

31: - 170: ------- 679 -- 4.0 -- 4.4

32: - 150: ------- 591 -- 3.9 -- 4.1

33: - 120: ------- 436 -- 3.6 -- 3.0

34: - 140: ------- 524 -- 3.8 -- 4.7

35: - 131: ------- 497 -- 3.8 -- 4.1

- a 169-yard drop-off between a 29-year-old and 30-year-old running back and, more disconcerting, a 81-yard drop-off between a 28-year-old and 29-year-old running back.

- A 25-, 26- or 27-year-old, according to the chart, is far more likely to repeat his success of the previous season.

Bush is young and hasn't filled out his frame which can support more wieght. He'll be splitting carries and/or will be used where he's not getting a burdensome amount of touches that would place him at risk for injury. His break away speed and projected use in the passing game could make him significant threat but I suspect that Reggie won't be in his heyday for a few more seasons and he may be used along the lines of Brian Westbrook. See how Moats struggled late in the year when he was asked to learn Westbrook's role. Moats, had to learn routes/pass blocking/and his own running plays. I don't envisage Bush on the field alot early in the year. Kube will pick and chose spots.The above age/touches/production charts shows expected touches to go up in a few years. I wouldn't be overly concerned about what his weight his rookie season. He worked with LdT last off season and to begin preparing for the NFL. He'll put on weight. What he brings is speed and his quickness. Bush will come in as one of the fastest players in the league the minute he steps on the field. Kubiak will get him up to speed and constantly create a witches brew of matchup nightmares during the year as Reggie learns and develops. His rookie season won't be his best but it might be the funnest to watch for any fan whose team isn't matched up against him.

 

[GregR_2]

I care more about finding out what answer the data supports than I do about seeing if the belief we went into it with is right.

So I'm pretty skeptical. The two full-time RBs (Portis and Tiki) who seem most appropriate for comparing to Bush were eliminated under criteria that didn't seem consistently applied to any other RBs.

In the case of Portis, his combine had him 5'10" and 204. He had a heavier build on a smaller frame than Bush, and adds about 10 lbs to his weight. So I'm puzzled by the assumption then that Bush will only be able to put 3-4 lbs on a larger frame which also already has more room to add weight to. So I guess I reject that Portis isn't a direct comparison to Bush.

In the case of Tiki, he is also nearly an exact match of Bush's current size/weight, at 5'10" and 200lb. While I believe when we know there is something wrong with the data we should take it into account, it seems dubious that his is the only height and weight that gets ignored as being invalid. Doubly so since eliminating him removes an obvious contradiction to the hypothesis you're trying to prove, and dropping him 2 inches in height as you say doesn't seem to me to be very believable as to his true height.

I don't think the look at the data was very objective. I think that highlighting the players out there that he can be compared as you have, that you've nicely shown that someone at that height and weight, whether coming into the league ala Portis, or playing at that height/weight ala Tiki, can not only succeed, but excel.

 

[Liquid Tension]

No way he gains 13 pounds before the start of the season? Do you guys know what it entails to put on that much weight and make it productive weight? I mean he could just strap on to 5 lb plates to his chest and back with the way you guys are talking. Maybe, and I mean maybe in 2 years he could pack on 13 pounds.

You are incorrect. He could easily add 10 pound

s of productive weight between now and September with the help of an NFL conditioning coach; chef and diet tech. Anything above 13 might be pushing to but 10 pounds is well within reason.

Now how is this wrong? 5% increase in his body weight on that frame will be very tough, let alone in less than a year. Let me out it to another way. I would bet $5,000 that he doesn't start the year 10 pounds heavier.

I take it you're not a weight lifter. 10lbs. of hard muscle is VERY easy to put on with the right nutrition (and legal supplements) if someone trains to build on muscle mass. I'd say to this point Bush has always tried to stay small and quick since it suited him in college. However, if he sees that he needs to bulk up for the NFL he will do it. I can't believe the nonsense about it being hard to put on muscle, especially for an athlete like Bush.

First, you missed the point, I said no way he puts on 13 pounds and you said, he could easily put on 10 so I am incorrect?

I have played sports at a high level and worked out with the NY Giants at their facility with some of the team and Ronnie Barnes their trainer and Dr. Russle Warren their team doctor; I understand what can and can't be done at a decent level, but not an expert. What you are forgetting that this isn't a guy off the street putting on 10 pounds of muscle. Reggie is already cut up and muscular and on a little frame. He has been working out like crazy through college and will not put 13 pounds by the start of the season. Look at all the RB's who have come out and find one that put on more than 5% to tehir weight in theirst year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Reggie Bush will be the first do do everything

 

[WhoDat]

What you are forgetting that this isn't a guy off the street putting on 10 pounds of muscle.

And that is exactly why I propose he will put on 8-10 pounds by September. He is far more conditioned to do so versus a hack off the street. Augment his diet with approved supplements; sleep and exercise patterns and 8-10 pounds is no problem. I agree 13 pounds or higher will be damn near impossible without a visit from a little clear and a little cream. I conceded that point in the second post. Forgive the momentary lapse in reading comprehension. I did reread, though, and corrected my intial comment. When I worked in scouting, it was a understood certain players at specific positions had a plus/minus weight gain ratio assigned to them. Those players were pegged to gain at least and no more than a certain amount of healthy weight (mucsle mass) prior to the start of the season, as determined by the team's medical and sports sciences staff.Bush plus 8-10 is not that problematic and realistic.Bush plus 10 would be , considering the time.

 

[wannabee]

Good post WhoDat. The other thing most do not take into account is the weight midseason. Almost every back, especially rookies, will lose weight during the season. The big factor is making sure it is not too much weight.

 

[cstu]

No way he gains 13 pounds before the start of the season? Do you guys know what it entails to put on that much weight and make it productive weight? I mean he could just strap on to 5 lb plates to his chest and back with the way you guys are talking. Maybe, and I mean maybe in 2 years he could pack on 13 pounds.

You are incorrect. He could easily add 10 pound

s of productive weight between now and September with the help of an NFL conditioning coach; chef and diet tech. Anything above 13 might be pushing to but 10 pounds is well within reason.

Now how is this wrong? 5% increase in his body weight on that frame will be very tough, let alone in less than a year. Let me out it to another way. I would bet $5,000 that he doesn't start the year 10 pounds heavier.

I take it you're not a weight lifter. 10lbs. of hard muscle is VERY easy to put on with the right nutrition (and legal supplements) if someone trains to build on muscle mass. I'd say to this point Bush has always tried to stay small and quick since it suited him in college. However, if he sees that he needs to bulk up for the NFL he will do it. I can't believe the nonsense about it being hard to put on muscle, especially for an athlete like Bush.

First, you missed the point, I said no way he puts on 13 pounds and you said, he could easily put on 10 so I am incorrect?

I have played sports at a high level and worked out with the NY Giants at their facility with some of the team and Ronnie Barnes their trainer and Dr. Russle Warren their team doctor; I understand what can and can't be done at a decent level, but not an expert. What you are forgetting that this isn't a guy off the street putting on 10 pounds of muscle. Reggie is already cut up and muscular and on a little frame. He has been working out like crazy through college and will not put 13 pounds by the start of the season. Look at all the RB's who have come out and find one that put on more than 5% to tehir weight in theirst year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Reggie Bush will be the first do do everything

5-11 is a little frame? Looks to me like you're spinning this how you want to see it.I agree he has been working out like crazy, but his focus was probably on speed and quickness rather than strength. He will get a strength coach who will work on his lower body strength rather than his speed. He'll start working out with higher weights and less reps to put on muscle and it shouldn't impact his speed too much.

By the way, I don't know why you are so concerned about what weight he'll be at this year. This will be a short offseason for him with his NFL team, as it is with all rookies, but he'll have an entire offseason working with the team's trainers to get him where he needs to be by 2007.

 

[Liquid Tension]

What you are forgetting that this isn't a guy off the street putting on 10 pounds of muscle.

And that is exactly why I propose he will put on 8-10 pounds by September. He is far more conditioned to do so versus a hack off the street. Augment his diet with approved supplements; sleep and exercise patterns and 8-10 pounds is no problem. I agree 13 pounds or higher will be damn near impossible without a visit from a little clear and a little cream. I conceded that point in the second post. Forgive the momentary lapse in reading comprehension. I did reread, though, and corrected my intial comment.

When I worked in scouting, it was a understood certain players at specific positions had a plus/minus weight gain ratio assigned to them. Those players were pegged to gain at least and no more than a certain amount of healthy weight (mucsle mass) prior to the start of the season, as determined by the team's medical and sports sciences staff.

Bush plus 8-10 is not that problematic and realistic.

Bush plus 10 would be , considering the time.

OK, that seems in line to me and appreciate the correction. I agree that Bush could get up 211, but I do think it will take him more than a year. I looked up Portis' rookie year and while he is an inch shorter (which I do believe helps), he has put on 7 or 8 pounds over 3-4 years and their builds are as close as I could find. If I had to wager I say that Reggie gets up to 207 to play year 1.

 

[Liquid Tension]

No way he gains 13 pounds before the start of the season? Do you guys know what it entails to put on that much weight and make it productive weight? I mean he could just strap on to 5 lb plates to his chest and back with the way you guys are talking. Maybe, and I mean maybe in 2 years he could pack on 13 pounds.

You are incorrect.

He could easily add 10 pounds of productive weight between now and September with the help of an NFL conditioning coach; chef and diet tech. Anything above 13 might be pushing to but 10 pounds is well within reason.

Now how is this wrong?

5% increase in his body weight on that frame will be very tough, let alone in less than a year. Let me out it to another way. I would bet $5,000 that he doesn't start the year 10 pounds heavier.

I take it you're not a weight lifter. 10lbs. of hard muscle is VERY easy to put on with the right nutrition (and legal supplements) if someone trains to build on muscle mass. I'd say to this point Bush has always tried to stay small and quick since it suited him in college. However, if he sees that he needs to bulk up for the NFL he will do it. I can't believe the nonsense about it being hard to put on muscle, especially for an athlete like Bush.

First, you missed the point, I said no way he puts on 13 pounds and you said, he could easily put on 10 so I am incorrect?



I have played sports at a high level and worked out with the NY Giants at their facility with some of the team and Ronnie Barnes their trainer and Dr. Russle Warren their team doctor; I understand what can and can't be done at a decent level, but not an expert. What you are forgetting that this isn't a guy off the street putting on 10 pounds of muscle. Reggie is already cut up and muscular and on a little frame. He has been working out like crazy through college and will not put 13 pounds by the start of the season. Look at all the RB's who have come out and find one that put on more than 5% to tehir weight in theirst year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Reggie Bush will be the first do do everything

5-11 is a little frame? Looks to me like you're spinning this how you want to see it.

I agree he has been working out like crazy, but his focus was probably on speed and quickness rather than strength. He will get a strength coach who will work on his lower body strength rather than his speed. He'll start working out with higher weights and less reps to put on muscle and it shouldn't impact his speed too much.

_____________

When I wrote little frame I should have said thinner frame, From what I have read he does not have huge bones so he is bulked up pretty well right now. Also, I think you are dismissing the fact that at USC they do almost the same things as a pro team so don't think that they didn't think of working his lower body for strength rather than speed...they already have. As I said 206-207 is what I am expecting him to be at

 

[streamkeeper]

Hey, my wife has a question for you guys about her weight....

Seriously, 2 or 4 lbs is irrelvent.

 

[streamkeeper]

so is spelling

 

[Tenacious D]

Please find a single player who is playing now who is successful at being a taller back 5'11" or above and under 212 lbs?

At specifically that, Portis and Curtis Martin are the two best examples to meet exactly that criteria. However, that's a little ridiculous to be so specific. Most of the backs in the league are between 5'9" and 5'11" and in the 205 to 220 range. It's not that big a difference. He'll put on weight in the pros. Everyone does. You know, that whole playing football is now your job thing makes for more time training and stuff. On the other side of the coin, being a little taller could also make his frame take the weight better without messing with his balance and stride. At 5'9", you can get too thick trying to carry 215+ pounds.

 

[toxicbees]

Yeah, I'd rather have Chris Brown or Brandon Jacobs?!?!?!

 

[loqutis]

If I'm not mistaken...and please correct me if I am, but wasn't the greatest RB ever (sans Payton) somewhat frail? Emmitt Smith was about 5'9" and around 200 lbs. All he did was rush/receive for gobs of yards and TD's. I seem to remember him running over people a time or two as well.

 

[Liquid Tension]

If I'm not mistaken...and please correct me if I am, but wasn't the greatest RB ever (sans Payton) somewhat frail?  Emmitt Smith was about 5'9" and around 200 lbs.  All he did was rush/receive for gobs of yards and TD's.  I seem to remember him running over people a time or two as well. 

Uh, yeah, great posting...except for the little issue is that he is 2 inches shorter Oh yeah, and he isn't playing anymore.Except for those annoying facts...

I really don't mean to be an a#s here, but after all has been written to post that just shows a lack of understanding or a non willing to try and look at the concept

 

[mbuehner]

I bet i can put on 13 pounds by start of season, no problem. And I wont even leave the couch.

Seriously though, Portis put on 18 pounds between seasons a few years back

The News

According to the Rocky Mountain News, Clinton Portis is 18 pounds heavier than he was last season. The Broncos wanted him to put on weight and he reported to camp weighing a healthy 210 pounds. "You all thought my weight was going to be a problem," Portis said. "You all thought I lost my speed and my moves. I ain't lose nothin', baby

he then proceeded to rip off 1600 yards rushing in 13 games. I think it can be done.

 

[cstu]

If I'm not mistaken...and please correct me if I am, but wasn't the greatest RB ever (sans Payton) somewhat frail? Emmitt Smith was about 5'9" and around 200 lbs. All he did was rush/receive for gobs of yards and TD's. I seem to remember him running over people a time or two as well.

Uh, yeah, great posting...except for the little issue is that he is 2 inches shorter Oh yeah, and he isn't playing anymore.Except for those annoying facts...

I really don't mean to be an a#s here, but after all has been written to post that just shows a lack of understanding or a non willing to try and look at the concept

What weight do 5-11 RB's have to be to make you happy?

 

[WhoDat]

I bet i can put on 13 pounds by start of season, no problem. And I wont even leave the couch.