Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I recall you stating a thread at :e: plotting to get LHUCKS banned.Who had suggested this?
I recall you stating a thread at :e: plotting to get LHUCKS banned.Who had suggested this?
Not childish at all. I've talked about that for a while. It was meant to be laughing "with" but it seems most of the time I see I see it, it's trolling laughing "at" someone.This is going to sound childish but can we get rid of the laughing at emoji? It’s a trolling tool at this point.
I do believe this is the type of thing that gets us back to where we were. Simply because that's more how we used to be it seems where people didn't assume the worst and didn't keep their little notebook of offenses.Thanks for the reply Joe. It definitely seems that we've reached a strange point where a lot of cyber relationships have been strained. What you wrote resonates with me......but it also doesn't really diagnose what the root cause is/was. And I find it hard to change things when I don't really understand the root causes. But maybe that's just me.
In any event, this topic and a few of the comments have convinced me to take a different approach. Who knows if I'll be able to sustain it, but I'm really going to try to engage differently from here on out. I probably will slip back into old behavior from time to time, but it's worth trying.
On that note, shout out to @BladeRunner. While we probably disagree on a number of topics, we had some really good back and forth discussion today. It was nice to truly try to understand another poster who has a different perspective. Did we solve any grand world problems today? No, not really. But it reminded me that most people on this board are human beings -- yeah, we have strongly held beliefs; yeah, some of those beliefs are all over the place; yeah, sometimes I can't relate to the opposing views other folks hold -- but ultimately, most folks in here just want the best for the world around them.
Anyway. In a day that wasn't overly positive IRL, the discussions I had with BladeRunner today made my end of day gratitude list. That might strike people as weird/silly/whatever -- but that's not my concern. Thanks to BladeRunner for taking the chance to have some good talks today.
Agreed. I was trying to be nice...It doesn't add little value. It adds zero value.
We are all adults. Do people actually get offended by emojis?This is going to sound childish but can we get rid of the laughing at emoji? It’s a trolling tool at this point.
It’s a very sensitive place apparently.We are all adults. Do people actually get offended by emojis?
The 95% stronghold slipped to 90% and Tim feels threatened, is that where we are now? Wow.So there are 6 conservative voices, and that's now the majority?
It is just evolution of the board. I am a member of a big golf forum that used to be great. Over time it has turned into such a mess that I don`t even go there any more. And that is with no political talk allowed.I really don't know, Alex. It just seems we're obsessed where people want to start threads like this one and make sure we "get back" people we think were wrong or somehow hypocritical in some way. It's like we've dropped the real and thoughtful discussion and reverted back to middle school. Maybe it's been this way. But it seems I'm not the only one that thinks it's changed. And not for the better.
The bigger problem is I'm not sure how we get out. It would take people forgiving and making amends and not being obsessed about pointing out the wrong someone did to them. And that seems like a tall order. Way easier to slap back and forth and score gotcha points.
Wow. Did someone really start this thread?
How many times are the board liberals going to rewrite history to fit the narrative? Skews right? Get outta' here.
Yes, we're all adults.We are all adults. Do people actually get offended by emojis?
There's truth there too. This is a mature board. Lots of folks have been here a long time. And this kind of thing can happen over time. When many of us started here, there weren't a ton of options for community like this. Now there are tons.It is just evolution of the board. I am a member of a big golf forum that used to be great. Over time it has turned into such a mess that I don`t even go there any more. And that is with no political talk allowed.
UnderstoodYes, we're all adults.
But people can still use emojis to troll or be uncool. Both those things we ask people not to do.
You have been trying for years, there is no real answer or solution. Actually it is common.There's truth there too. This is a mature board. Lots of folks have been here a long time. And this kind of thing can happen over time. When many of us started here, there weren't a ton of options for community like this. Now there are tons.
I do think though the answer is not to just throw up the hands and say it's devolved or matured. I think it requires a more mature level of understanding. Just like any long time community or relationship.
The question, and I truly don't know the answer though: Is that too much to ask?
It's not about reporting. It's about being uncool to each other.Understood
I guess I meant...do people actually report others for using an emoji
How many years have you asked? The PSF has a tone that's entrenched and I don't see it ever changing. There's very few productive discussions and just day after day after day of people trying to win a conversation, insult others, play link/source cop, etc.... it NEVER changes.There's truth there too. This is a mature board. Lots of folks have been here a long time. And this kind of thing can happen over time. When many of us started here, there weren't a ton of options for community like this. Now there are tons.
I do think though the answer is not to just throw up the hands and say it's devolved or matured. I think it requires a more mature level of understanding. Just like any long time community or relationship.
The question, and I truly don't know the answer though: Is that too much to ask?
Yeah I’ll be honest I find his explanations at best naive, and more probably disingenuous. For someone who runs a website, there’s a real lack of understanding how the internet works.How many years have you asked? The PSF has a tone that's entrenched and I don't see it ever changing. There's very few productive discussions and just day after day after day of people trying to win a conversation, insult others, play link/source cop, etc.... it NEVER changes.
Disingenuous? That seems highly unlikely. I am 100% positive that Joe would prefer far less ugliness in the PSF. It would mean far fewer headaches for him.Yeah I’ll be honest I find his explanations at best naive, and more probably disingenuous. For someone who runs a website, there’s a real lack of understanding how the internet works.
You really want it to work - separate forums. One for Right, one for left, and one for the middle that is heavily moderated.
Prefer it, sure. Think that’s even in the realm of possibilities? Not a chance - severe disconnect from reality.Disingenuous? That seems highly unlikely. I am 100% positive that Joe would prefer far less ugliness in the PSF. It would mean far fewer headaches for him.
Thank you GB. Fully admit to being too optimistic or even naive. I've got lots of failings. But I feel pretty confident I'm not being disingenuous here.Disingenuous? That seems highly unlikely. I am 100% positive that Joe would prefer far less ugliness in the PSF. It would mean far fewer headaches for him.
If that’s the case, why do you bother to report people?Prefer it, sure. Think that’s even in the realm of possibilities? Not a chance - severe disconnect from reality.
Trying to see if they cared to moderate or just let the zoo operate on its own.If that’s the case, why do you bother to report people?
I don’t agree, obviously.Agreed. I was trying to be nice...
Yeah. We're asking people not to do that.Your original assertion is laughable, so a laughing emoji succinctly and correctly portrayed the response I needed.
Thanks. I always take good luck wishes.Well good luck with all that. If the headaches are worth the clicks, you do you but don’t act all surprised at what you see happening.
I’d guess I’d say your community is act 3 of Lord of the Flies right now and Piggy is running out of time.Thanks. I always take good luck wishes.
And yes, like anything, it's a question of the good outweighing the negative. The negative is clearly the headache and time and money needed.
But the clicks aren't of much value. The Community is what I value. That's the positive. There are lots of real people who've made real friends here. There's been mountains of good discussion here. That's the positive.
As far as acting surprised, I don't think I've been surprised much.
You could well be right.I’d guess I’d say your community is act 3 of Lord of the Flies right now and Piggy is running out of time.
I don’t agree, obviously.I don’t agree, obviously.
I know you think I was trying to be snarky or play “gotcha”, that was not the case. I start threads with one goal in mind, always: is this an interesting topic? If nobody else thinks so, then the thread will die quickly. This one didn’t, which means that other people here find it interesting as well.
That says more about you than me. Maybe the mods sided with me because you were being unreasonable and thin-skinned? That's something YOU need to deal with, not us. Maybe being shackled to your orthodoxy is the problem?bigmarc27 said:The fact that you stand behind what you said and the mods didn’t care illustrated all I needed to know.
Tim posts a lot, yeah, but nobody is forcing anyone to participate in a thread dialogue. Just scroll on by. It's not heroin.I don’t agree, obviously.
Also, I don't think you can help it.
It happens wayyyy too often.
It very well could be to him. He posts in nearly every discussion I participate in these days, and it’s almost always some form of personal attack.Tim posts a lot, yeah, but nobody is forcing anyone to participate in a thread dialogue. Just scroll on by. Its not heroin
I mean it might be an issue if you came into every thread hijacking the conversation, ironically, what they seem to be doing in your threads.It very well could be to him. He posts in nearly every discussion I participate in these days, and it’s almost always some form of personal attack.
It’s just a couple of people. Most folks here, including the ones who disagree with me a majority of the time, engage in respectful and thoughtful discussion and debate.I mean it might be an issue if you came into every thread hijacking the conversation, ironically, what they seem to be doing in your threads.
I don't do drugs.It very well could be to him. He posts in nearly every discussion I participate in these days, and it’s almost always some form of personal attack.
No, we can’t. You know that as well as I do, it’s probably the one thing we agree on. I’ve seen enough to know that my view and your views in regards to equality, compassion, and humanity are at polar opposites of the spectrum. There is no middle ground, so I’ll do my best to ignore.We can all get along.
Respectfully disagreeThere's truth there too. This is a mature board. Lots of folks have been here a long time. And this kind of thing can happen over time. When many of us started here, there weren't a ton of options for community like this. Now there are tons.
I do think though the answer is not to just throw up the hands and say it's devolved or matured. I think it requires a more mature level of understanding. Just like any long time community or relationship.
The question, and I truly don't know the answer though: Is that too much to ask?
OK, I have to take issue with this. I’ve agreed with some of your points in this thread but this goes way too far.No, we can’t. You know that as well as I do, it’s probably the one thing we agree on. I’ve seen enough to know that my view and your views in regards to equality, compassion, and humanity are at polar opposites of the spectrum. There is no middle ground, so I’ll do my best to ignore.
You cannot get along with someone with whom you disagree?No, we can’t. You know that as well as I do, it’s probably the one thing we agree on. I’ve seen enough to know that my view and your views in regards to equality, compassion, and humanity are at polar opposites of the spectrum. There is no middle ground, so I’ll do my best to ignore.
Agree to disagree.OK, I have to take issue with this. I’ve agreed with some of your points in this thread but this goes way too far.
I strongly disagree with @BladeRunneron a variety of issues. I think he is filled with paranoia and wrongheaded ideas about his opponents, and as I’ve pointed out recently, IMO his knowledge of history is skewed and full of misinformation. But to assert that he is lacking in humanity and compassion is not only false, it’s really below the pale. Come on now.
That’s a loaded question and not what I said at all, and you know that.You cannot get along with someone with whom you disagree?
I have been saying that for years, get rid of it. It has gone beyond the original intent and is now used primarily in this forum to ridicule or mock the posts of others.Not childish at all. I've talked about that for a while. It was meant to be laughing "with" but it seems most of the time I see I see it, it's trolling laughing "at" someone.
Looks to me like you don't have much compassion for folks with opposing politicsl views than youNo, we can’t. You know that as well as I do, it’s probably the one thing we agree on. I’ve seen enough to know that my view and your views in regards to equality, compassion, and humanity are at polar opposites of the spectrum. There is no middle ground, so I’ll do my best to ignore.
Not true, I’m open to many discussions on abortion, fiscal policy, military, etc... someone who states that people of different skin color wanting to be treated equal as a means to take vengeance on whites is not a statement of politics, it’s lunacy.Looks to me like you don't have much compassion for folks with opposing politicsl views than you
I don't know if it was the same user groups but I read a few of those during 2000 (the year) and I wasn't going near them as a poster. But there was you, and @Maurile Tremblayand a few others from there that was must reads. On May 1st 2001 this place opened with most of those "must reads" here along with many of the websites that dotted the landscape in 2000. I waited until May 2nd to join to post. It took a day to see that this place was going to be a bit different. And then I posted about Eddie George's usage in 2020 (8 games where he carried the ball around 40 times and 8 game where he carried the ball around 10 times) and all of those that rode Eddie George to championships chimed in and it showed while this place wasn't as nasty it was certainly as passionate. And it wasn't necessarily fun to be a contrarian, but it was the contrarian voices that make this place special. The utterly stupid belief that Toyotas are grown in the fields of Iowa; the ridiculousness of the FairTax; being anti Iraq War in early 2002; etc. (FYI - I can take credit for none of these - eta and the "utterly stupid" and "ridiculousness" here mean thought provoking and challenging) that make this place special. Including the contrarian belief that this place can be different.And this goes back to the bigger picture of why we moderate.
The primary reason is I think (and I'm totally open to being wrong) it helps create good discussion.
I learned this lesson some 25 years ago when I encouraged a well known fantasy football writer to join us on the use.net boards. He wrote a long and thoughtful post and spent a ton of time on it. It was great value to the group. The first reply was "you suck".
He messaged me and said, "I'm done". And never contributed another thing.
One might say he was being thin skinned. I say he had tons of platforms begging for him to contribute his work. He had no interest in contributing where he had to put up with people like that.
My takeaway was simply: "The community has missed a ton of value because of a troll".
When we started here, I knew one of the keys to the forum's success would be having quality posters. And I wanted to do all we could to encourage them to be here. Part of that was asking people to be excellent to each other.
Not to mention, that's just a better way in my opinion to have any community.
I personally have not seen anyone say your last sentence.Not true, I’m open to many discussions on abortion, fiscal policy, military, etc... someone who states that people of different skin color wanting to be treated equal as a means to take vengeance on whites is not a statement of politics, it’s lunacy.
Explore the threads more.I personally have not seen anyone say your last sentence.
That's a little relative. When you are labelled with something, such as being a racist, only because of who you may or may not support politically, that's a tough one to overcome.You cannot get along with someone with whom you disagree?
Ha. I mean "mature" in the sense of the board is established and has been here a long while.Respectfully disagree
Thanks GB. That's exactly what I'm talking about.I don't know if it was the same user groups but I read a few of those during 2000 (the year) and I wasn't going near them as a poster. But there was you, and @Maurile Tremblayand a few others from there that was must reads. On May 1st 2001 this place opened with most of those "must reads" here along with many of the websites that dotted the landscape in 2000. I waited until May 2nd to join to post. It took a day to see that this place was going to be a bit different. And then I posted about Eddie George's usage in 2020 (8 games where he carried the ball around 40 times and 8 game where he carried the ball around 10 times) and all of those that rode Eddie George to championships chimed in and it showed while this place wasn't as nasty it was certainly as passionate. And it wasn't necessarily fun to be a contrarian, but it was the contrarian voices that make this place special. The utterly stupid belief that Toyotas are grown in the fields of Iowa; the ridiculousness of the FairTax; being anti Iraq War in early 2002; etc. (FYI - I can take credit for none of these - eta and the "utterly stupid" and "ridiculousness" here mean thought provoking and challenging) that make this place special. Including the contrarian belief that this place can be different.
So I don't think I have mentioned it, happy first twenty years of this place. And thanks.