Republicans are a joke (1 Viewer)

[jamny]

The early tea party should have gotten together with the early occupy people. Unfortunately the respective parties infiltrated them both and ruined the core messages.

I'll bite. How did the GOP ruin the tea party?

By bringing social issues into the agenda. If they could have maintained a more conservative fiscal agenda with libertarian social goals they would have been able to attract a larger following. But too many Republicans adopted the Tea Party label and brought with them too many social conservative issues, like immigration reform, abortion and gay marriage. You didn't hear those issues brought up early on. So if the tea party could have united with the occupy people, that might have made for an actual interesting option.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Unaffiliated moderate voter here in the libertarian mold. In my eyes, the Republican party is an absolute laughingstock.

Call me crazy, but the Republican rebuttal of the State of the Union often signals to me the people who the Republican Party views as their rising stars. In 2013. it was Marco Rubio.....in 2011, it was Paul Ryan. 2015, the Republican Party has just taken control of both houses and have a, frankly, very important stage on which to rebut the State of the Union. Who do they choose to represent them in front of the nation? A fringe whacko right-wing lunatic from Iowa who has been in Congress for literally a week. #### this political party. If Joni Ernst is the future, I want no part of it.

 

[popsecret]

Unaffiliated moderate voter here in the libertarian mold. In my eyes, the Republican party is an absolute laughingstock.

Call me crazy, but the Republican rebuttal of the State of the Union often signals to me the people who the Republican Party views as their rising stars. In 2013. it was Marco Rubio.....in 2011, it was Paul Ryan. 2015, the Republican Party has just taken control of both houses and have a, frankly, very important stage on which to rebut the State of the Union. Who do they choose to represent them in front of the nation? A fringe whacko right-wing lunatic from Iowa who has been in Congress for literally a week. #### this political party. If Joni Ernst is the future, I want no part of it.

Vote for Obama some more, we respect your opinion

 

[Steve Tasker]

Unaffiliated moderate voter here in the libertarian mold. In my eyes, the Republican party is an absolute laughingstock.

Call me crazy, but the Republican rebuttal of the State of the Union often signals to me the people who the Republican Party views as their rising stars. In 2013. it was Marco Rubio.....in 2011, it was Paul Ryan. 2015, the Republican Party has just taken control of both houses and have a, frankly, very important stage on which to rebut the State of the Union. Who do they choose to represent them in front of the nation? A fringe whacko right-wing lunatic from Iowa who has been in Congress for literally a week. #### this political party. If Joni Ernst is the future, I want no part of it.

Vote for Obama some more, we respect your opinion

I've never voted for Obama.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Hey, why dont the repeal obamacare and send that vote to obama to veto.

Or pass a law capping state university salaries/admin expenses/donations and tax the hell out of any overages.

Or pass glenn Reynolds revolving door tax

Or pass a tax on Hollywood

Or introduce legislation to replace exchanges with state commissions

Or legalize marijuana

Or shut down DHS

Man, you really love taxes.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The early tea party should have gotten together with the early occupy people. Unfortunately the respective parties infiltrated them both and ruined the core messages.

I'll bite. How did the GOP ruin the tea party?

By bringing social issues into the agenda. If they could have maintained a more conservative fiscal agenda with libertarian social goals they would have been able to attract a larger following. But too many Republicans adopted the Tea Party label and brought with them too many social conservative issues, like immigration reform, abortion and gay marriage. You didn't hear those issues brought up early on. So if the tea party could have united with the occupy people, that might have made for an actual interesting option.

I think this is accurate. I believe the Tea Party started out with a libertarian bent, but it was quickly overtaken by the Glenn Beck wing of the Republican Party.

 

[bostonfred]

The early tea party should have gotten together with the early occupy people. Unfortunately the respective parties infiltrated them both and ruined the core messages.

I'll bite. How did the GOP ruin the tea party?

By bringing social issues into the agenda. If they could have maintained a more conservative fiscal agenda with libertarian social goals they would have been able to attract a larger following. But too many Republicans adopted the Tea Party label and brought with them too many social conservative issues, like immigration reform, abortion and gay marriage. You didn't hear those issues brought up early on. So if the tea party could have united with the occupy people, that might have made for an actual interesting option.

that can still happen, I think, but they need a celebrity, not just an "outsider". Maybe Morgan Freeman.

 

[shadrap]

Unaffiliated moderate voter here in the libertarian mold. In my eyes, the Republican party is an absolute laughingstock.

Call me crazy, but the Republican rebuttal of the State of the Union often signals to me the people who the Republican Party views as their rising stars. In 2013. it was Marco Rubio.....in 2011, it was Paul Ryan. 2015, the Republican Party has just taken control of both houses and have a, frankly, very important stage on which to rebut the State of the Union. Who do they choose to represent them in front of the nation? A fringe whacko right-wing lunatic from Iowa who has been in Congress for literally a week. #### this political party. If Joni Ernst is the future, I want no part of it.

Great post dude.

 

[shadrap]

Tea party?

Extreme & off their collective rockers in which way?

 

[joffer]

Unaffiliated moderate voter here in the libertarian mold. In my eyes, the Republican party is an absolute laughingstock.

Call me crazy, but the Republican rebuttal of the State of the Union often signals to me the people who the Republican Party views as their rising stars. In 2013. it was Marco Rubio.....in 2011, it was Paul Ryan. 2015, the Republican Party has just taken control of both houses and have a, frankly, very important stage on which to rebut the State of the Union. Who do they choose to represent them in front of the nation? A fringe whacko right-wing lunatic from Iowa who has been in Congress for literally a week. #### this political party. If Joni Ernst is the future, I want no part of it.

Great post dude.

 

[njherdfan]

Unaffiliated moderate voter here in the libertarian mold. In my eyes, the Republican party is an absolute laughingstock.

Call me crazy, but the Republican rebuttal of the State of the Union often signals to me the people who the Republican Party views as their rising stars. In 2013. it was Marco Rubio.....in 2011, it was Paul Ryan. 2015, the Republican Party has just taken control of both houses and have a, frankly, very important stage on which to rebut the State of the Union. Who do they choose to represent them in front of the nation? A fringe whacko right-wing lunatic from Iowa who has been in Congress for literally a week. #### this political party. If Joni Ernst is the future, I want no part of it.

Yep. This is where I am. I voted twice for Chris Christie as governor. On most fiscal issues I lean more conservative, but the national GOP is, to me, completely insane on social issues and it makes it hard for me to vote for them.

 

[urbanhack]

Tea party?Extreme & off their collective rockers in which way?

Not understanding anything about how to run a country?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Tea party?Extreme & off their collective rockers in which way?

Not understanding anything about how to run a country?

I did not know Obama was a member of the tea party! How about that?

 

[shadrap]

Tea party?Extreme & off their collective rockers in which way?

Not understanding anything about how to run a country?

I'm assuming your talking about Barack?

 

[bigbottom]

Zing!

 

[GoBirds]

The Tea Party is the worst thing that could have happened to the GOP. Most Tea Partiers are of the "we don't want to compromise" ilk, which means they oppose moderate Republicans because heaven forbid they support someone who doesn't agree with them 100% of their extremists views. To me, the fact that many are on the right still take Sarah Palin seriously is symbolic of how far the GOP has fallen. Granted, the Democrats suck, too, but for different reasons.

Completely agree, it's frustrating as someone that votes Republican.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Tea party?Extreme & off their collective rockers in which way?

Not understanding anything about how to run a country?

Almost nobody understands very much about how to run a country. That's not extreme.

 

[Sinrman]

Both political parties as a whole are pathetic.

 

[joffer]

Tea party?Extreme & off their collective rockers in which way?

Not understanding anything about how to run a country?

Almost nobody understands very much about how to run a country. That's not extreme.

I think there's an app for that

 

[shadrap]

I would think some real world experiences would help. For God's sake google Obama'a & Joe Biden's resume. Never ran anything. Barely worked for anyone except for government.

Cripes or Dear.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I would think some real world experiences would help. For God's sake google Obama'a & Joe Biden's resume. Never ran anything. Barely worked for anyone except for government.

Cripes or Dear.

Great point. I know when I need some plumbing work done the first thing I do is bring in a forklift operator to solve my problem.

 

[shadrap]

Raising a family and being on the cusp; i.e; Money earned is less than bills. Only good thing you have is a willingness to work.

Served me & my family very well. Don't ever underestimate a college graduate willing to dig a ditch.

 

[tommyGunZ]

The early tea party should have gotten together with the early occupy people. Unfortunately the respective parties infiltrated them both and ruined the core messages.

I'll bite. How did the GOP ruin the tea party?

By bringing social issues into the agenda. If they could have maintained a more conservative fiscal agenda with libertarian social goals they would have been able to attract a larger following. But too many Republicans adopted the Tea Party label and brought with them too many social conservative issues, like immigration reform, abortion and gay marriage. You didn't hear those issues brought up early on. So if the tea party could have united with the occupy people, that might have made for an actual interesting option.

I think this is accurate. I believe the Tea Party started out with a libertarian bent, but it was quickly overtaken by the Glenn Beck wing of the Republican Party.

I disagree. I think the Tea Party was simply a sub-set of Republicans who tried to market themselves as independents and distance themselves from the disaster of the last couple years of the Bush presidency. These weren't Mike Badnarik backers - these guys voted for Bush twice and then voted for McCain in '08. They were already social conservatives.ETA: I bet the data would show that the bump in the numbers of folks who self identified as "independent" was almost exactly equivalent to the delcine of folks who self identified as republicans during that time frame. It was a rebranding effort - but in reality they were still te republican base.

 

[Riversco]

Neither party has a big enough tent to govern. The republicans can't win a general election to claim the White House. The democrats can't win those midterms to claim the Senate and House of representatives.

So who cares really?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

These weren't Mike Badnarik backers

Who was?

I think the original Tea Partiers were largely Ron Paul backers. Here's how Paul himself described things in 2013:

The Tea Party was actually started during the Ron Paul presidential campaign in 2007 when there was a spontaneous moneybomb that was done on the anniversary of the original tea party. And it was strictly related to the issues and ideas I have just finished talking about. What happened after that was that a lot of people came onboard – including Republicans – who watered down some of the beliefs, and certainly changed the opinion of some on foreign policy so that the original Tea Party movement was taken over by the Republican Party, which I think was part of the problem.

Paul's recollection is consistent with the reporting back in 2007. This may have been the beginning of the Tea Party:

Hoping to detonate what they call a "money bomb," [Ron Paul's] supporters started fundraising at midnight Saturday and have already raised $2 million as of about 10:30 a.m. today.... [T]hey're seizing on the 234th aniversary of the Boston Tea Party and converging on this snowy city to rally.

That's how Dave Weigel recalled things in 2010 as well:

The first modern Tea Party events occurred in December 2007, long before Barack Obama took office, and they were organized by supporters of Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, to raise money for his long-shot presidential bid.

 

[Tango]

I voted for Kodos.

When the only choices are Kooks, Kommies, or Klowns, gotta go with the Kooks.

It was the speech that captured me.

Who else will take forward, not backward? Upward, not downward?

 

[jon_mx]

I now refuse to bend when I am standing. Not going to let the Man ride me anymore.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

What happened after that was that a lot of people came onboard – including Republicans – who watered down some of the beliefs, and certainly changed the opinion of some on foreign policy so that the original Tea Party movement was taken over by the Republican Party

I know I'm a broken record on this point, but this is exactly what happens every time a third party gets enough support to matter or wins a few lower-level elections. Sometimes it's explicit like this, and sometimes it's just the bigger party adopting the main policy points, but it's pretty much guaranteed to happen.

i.e. -- a third party can be a great way to get a policy plank adopted and supported, but if you're hanging your hat on a true alternative to the "big two" you're going to be disappointed.

 

[tommyGunZ]

What happened after that was that a lot of people came onboard – including Republicans – who watered down some of the beliefs, and certainly changed the opinion of some on foreign policy so that the original Tea Party movement was taken over by the Republican Party

I know I'm a broken record on this point, but this is exactly what happens every time a third party gets enough support to matter or wins a few lower-level elections. Sometimes it's explicit like this, and sometimes it's just the bigger party adopting the main policy points, but it's pretty much guaranteed to happen.i.e. -- a third party can be a great way to get a policy plank adopted and supported, but if you're hanging your hat on a true alternative to the "big two" you're going to be disappointed.

When 90% of those in the "new party" are Republicans, is it really a "new party"?

 

[bostonfred]

Most right leaning people I know describe themselves as fiscally conservative but socially liberal. yet they keep voting for people who are fiscally liberal and socially conservative.

 

[Riversco]

Most right leaning people I know describe themselves as fiscally conservative but socially liberal. yet they keep voting for people who are fiscally liberal and socially conservative.

You probably define those terms differently than they do. You should ask them how they define those terms and see if it matches yours. I bet it doesn't.

 

[bostonfred]

Most right leaning people I know describe themselves as fiscally conservative but socially liberal. yet they keep voting for people who are fiscally liberal and socially conservative.

You probably define those terms differently than they do. You should ask them how they define those terms and see if it matches yours. I bet it doesn't.

the last guy they elected president proposed a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and cut a check to everyone in the country as a stimulus. I'm not sure what definition you'd like to use but I am interested in hearing how that's fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Most right leaning people I know describe themselves as fiscally conservative but socially liberal. yet they keep voting for people who are fiscally liberal and socially conservative.

You probably define those terms differently than they do. You should ask them how they define those terms and see if it matches yours. I bet it doesn't.

the last guy they elected president proposed a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and cut a check to everyone in the country as a stimulus. I'm not sure what definition you'd like to use but I am interested in hearing how that's fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

Bush's views on gay marriage weren't so different from Clinton's. I don't think that's a good example because public opinion has shifted during the relevant timeframe.

 

[bostonfred]

Most right leaning people I know describe themselves as fiscally conservative but socially liberal. yet they keep voting for people who are fiscally liberal and socially conservative.

You probably define those terms differently than they do. You should ask them how they define those terms and see if it matches yours. I bet it doesn't.

the last guy they elected president proposed a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and cut a check to everyone in the country as a stimulus. I'm not sure what definition you'd like to use but I am interested in hearing how that's fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

Bush's views on gay marriage weren't so different from Clinton's. I don't think that's a good example because public opinion has shifted during the relevant timeframe.

You're judging Clinton by today's standards, though. Clinton instituted don't ask don't tell. that might seem like a step backwards today, but at the time it was groundbreaking and highly controversial to allow homosexuals in the military. it's hard to deny that Clinton tried to improve gay rights and that bush tried to do the opposite.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

the last guy they elected president proposed a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and cut a check to everyone in the country as a stimulus. I'm not sure what definition you'd like to use but I am interested in hearing how that's fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

Bush's views on gay marriage weren't so different from Clinton's. I don't think that's a good example because public opinion has shifted during the relevant timeframe.

You're judging Clinton by today's standards, though.

That's precisely my point. I don't think it's terribly meaningful to judge Clinton96 or Bush04 or even Obama08 by today's standards. I think it's inconsistent to harp on Bush04's stance on gay marriage as evidence of his social conservatism while giving Clinton96 a pass.

I was going to suggest using Bush's position on stem-cell research instead, but after checking Wikipedia, I learned that Bush was pretty similar to Clinton on that one as well.

I'm not sure what example I'd focus on if I were arguing that Bush was a social conservative. Abortion?

it's hard to deny that Clinton tried to improve gay rights and that bush tried to do the opposite.

I don't think DOMA was a step in the right direction.

 

[Riversco]

Most right leaning people I know describe themselves as fiscally conservative but socially liberal. yet they keep voting for people who are fiscally liberal and socially conservative.

You probably define those terms differently than they do. You should ask them how they define those terms and see if it matches yours. I bet it doesn't.

the last guy they elected president proposed a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and cut a check to everyone in the country as a stimulus. I'm not sure what definition you'd like to use but I am interested in hearing how that's fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

Because its relative.

A conservative might say a Bush stimulus check is not in itself a fiscally conservative idea, but feel a democrat would have created a vastly bigger program. So Bush's program is closer to fiscal conservatism than the democrats would have been.

A conservative might feel that a gay marriage ban isn't itself a socially conservative thing to do, but when comparing the platforms of both parties as a whole, its more socially conservative to side with the republicans.

If you are just going to pick one issue to try to understand the voting patterns of a group that looks at the big picture, you are going to be confused a lot.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

A conservative might feel that a gay marriage ban isn't itself a socially conservative thing to do

How so?

 

[Riversco]

A conservative might feel that a gay marriage ban isn't itself a socially conservative thing to do

How so?

My point was that it can be completely irrelevant on what a conservative thinks of gay marriage if their big picture view is that supporting republicans leads to more social conservatism overall. I'm not really trying to argue why or how a conservative might feel one way or another on gay marriage.

 

[jon_mx]

Well the biggest difference between Bush and Obama's impact on social policy is probably Supreme Court nominees. Bush's appointments are probably on the fense on how they will go on the gay marriage case. There is 100 percent certainty on how Obama's appointees will go. Neither one significantly changed the balance of how the court is made up, although Obama went a long ways towards reversing the age advantage.

 

[dschuler]

These weren't Mike Badnarik backers

Who was?

I think the original Tea Partiers were largely Ron Paul backers. Here's how Paul himself described things in 2013:

The Tea Party was actually started during the Ron Paul presidential campaign in 2007 when there was a spontaneous moneybomb that was done on the anniversary of the original tea party. And it was strictly related to the issues and ideas I have just finished talking about. What happened after that was that a lot of people came onboard including Republicans who watered down some of the beliefs, and certainly changed the opinion of some on foreign policy so that the original Tea Party movement was taken over by the Republican Party, which I think was part of the problem.

Paul's recollection is consistent with the reporting back in 2007. This may have been the beginning of the Tea Party:
Hoping to detonate what they call a "money bomb," [Ron Paul's] supporters started fundraising at midnight Saturday and have already raised $2 million as of about 10:30 a.m. today.... [T]hey're seizing on the 234th aniversary of the Boston Tea Party and converging on this snowy city to rally.

That's how Dave Weigel recalled things in 2010 as well:
The first modern Tea Party events occurred in December 2007, long before Barack Obama took office, and they were organized by supporters of Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, to raise money for his long-shot presidential bid.

Great post. Ron Paul incredible popularity with young people back in 07' is what started the tea party. Many Ron Paul supporters felt like the Republican Party had lost its ways, and that they were intentionally trying to leave Ron Paul out of the race. There were numerous theories as to why the media was not giving Paul enough attention when he was moving so many young people into paying attention to politics. So supporters got creative by doing online moneybombs and events in order for the media to have to talk about him. I have never heard anyone as inspirational as Paul and he's the only politician I have seen actually question the status quo in such an aggressive fashion. In the presidential debates, it was usually all of the republican nominees vs Dr. Paul, and Ron Paul didn't back down an inch. Guy had some balls. Try doing a YouTube search for the 2008 campaign if you want to see a true politician. I wish everyone in politics was half this passionate.

It's my belief, that Obama, who had much more sense than any of the republicans in the 2008 race, copied the "Hope for America" idea from Paul after they saw how well it caught on with the public.

The tea party is crap now because it's been swallowed up by the the same monster that it was originally set out to destroy, irony. It seems like in today's politics when a Republican tries to stand for something instead of stand against something they get shunned for it.

 

[dschuler]

A conservative might feel that a gay marriage ban isn't itself a socially conservative thing to do

How so?

My point was that it can be completely irrelevant on what a conservative thinks of gay marriage if their big picture view is that supporting republicans leads to more social conservatism overall. I'm not really trying to argue why or how a conservative might feel one way or another on gay marriage.

Exactly.

A republican would consider a gay marriage ban.

A conservative would say they can do whatever they want and call it whatever they want.

 

[SIDA!]

registered Republican, voted 90% R the last 29 years. not anymore.

what's the point? the Country has a wave election to put R's in control of congress and a month into action....crickets.

#### these guys.

That is about where I am at, too.

 

[the moops]

Never heard anyone as inspirational as Ron Paul?

 

[Mr. Retukes]

It's my belief, that Obama, who had much more sense than any of the republicans in the 2008 race, copied the "Hope for America" idea from Paul after they saw how well it caught on with the public.

Ron Paul copied the "Hope For America" idea from Obama's 2006 book "The Audacity Of Hope", and Obama copied his book title from Bush's "A More Hopeful America" slogan in 2004, and Bush copied his slogan from Clinton's "Man From Hope" ad in 1992, and Clinton copied that slogan from Jesse Jackson's "Keep Hope Alive" slogan from the '80s.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I find it exasperating that the Republican party has somehow managed to firmly brand itself as the anti-science, anti-education party. The Democrats have their own problems too, but I'm not voting for a party that takes Sarah Palin seriously.

 

[dschuler]

It's my belief, that Obama, who had much more sense than any of the republicans in the 2008 race, copied the "Hope for America" idea from Paul after they saw how well it caught on with the public.

Ron Paul copied the "Hope For America" idea from Obama's 2006 book "The Audacity Of Hope", and Obama copied his book title from Bush's "A More Hopeful America" slogan in 2004, and Bush copied his slogan from Clinton's "Man From Hope" ad in 1992, and Clinton copied that slogan from Jesse Jackson's "Keep Hope Alive" slogan from the '80s.

Good stuff

 

[Steve Tasker]

I find it exasperating that the Republican party has somehow managed to firmly brand itself as the anti-science, anti-education party. The Democrats have their own problems too, but I'm not voting for a party that takes Sarah Palin seriously.

You could take out Sarah Palin and replace it with a whole host of people and the sentence still has merit. Michelle Bachman, Ted Cruz, Joni Ernst, Rick Santorum, Ben Carson, etc. These are all people who've been trotted out as either recent presidential candidates or future candidates or rising stars within the party. These aren't fringe political figures with tiny followings; these are people with actual real political clout.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I find it exasperating that the Republican party has somehow managed to firmly brand itself as the anti-science, anti-education party. The Democrats have their own problems too, but I'm not voting for a party that takes Sarah Palin seriously.

You could take out Sarah Palin and replace it with a whole host of people and the sentence still has merit. Michelle Bachman, Ted Cruz, Joni Ernst, Rick Santorum, Ben Carson, etc. These are all people who've been trotted out as either recent presidential candidates or future candidates or rising stars within the party. These aren't fringe political figures with tiny followings; these are people with actual real political clout.

Oh, I agree. I was just using Palin as one example. Kind of sad that there are so many others that I could have picked.

 

[jamny]

I find it exasperating that the Republican party has somehow managed to firmly brand itself as the anti-science, anti-education party. The Democrats have their own problems too, but I'm not voting for a party that takes Sarah Palin seriously.

You could take out Sarah Palin and replace it with a whole host of people and the sentence still has merit. Michelle Bachman, Ted Cruz, Joni Ernst, Rick Santorum, Ben Carson, etc. These are all people who've been trotted out as either recent presidential candidates or future candidates or rising stars within the party. These aren't fringe political figures with tiny followings; these are people with actual real political clout.

Oh, I agree. I was just using Palin as one example. Kind of sad that there are so many others that I could have picked.

The only one on that list that I'm willing to listen to is Cruz. He's done a few things I've agreed with but he just seems like such a d!ck.

 

[jon_mx]

I find it exasperating that the Republican party has somehow managed to firmly brand itself as the anti-science, anti-education party. The Democrats have their own problems too, but I'm not voting for a party that takes Sarah Palin seriously.

You seriously think Democrats are pro-science? Democrats only love science when it gives them an opportunity for a big goverment power grab. Every solution the Democrats favor do nothing to solve the problem. Every one is a money and power grab