Restaurants have gotten so expensive……also recycling and phone apps (2 Viewers)

[Drunken knight]

As for the OP, wife and I went to Roy’s last evening for dinner. It’s a reasonably fancy restaurant.

We had two appetizers, entrees and desserts. She drank two glasses of wine, with “happy hour” pricing (one of the apps qualified, too). And I had a coupon for a free dessert.

The total, with tip: $210. That’s about double what it would’ve cost pre-pandemic.

Just spitballing here

If I go to reasonable fancy restaurant I would expect to somewhat pay

Appetizers 12 -18 bucks each, $30
Entrees 22 - 40 bucks each, $62
Desserts 8 - 12 bucks each, $20, but with free dessert $10
Wine 9 - 15 bucks each, $24, happy hour probably $6 for a glass, so $12

That looks like $150 total, so yea $210 seems pricey

I've never been to Hawaii, but am I mistaken to assume everything is rounded up 10-20%? And while unintentionally vague, 'reasonably fancy' rates are higher than that in this flyover city. Those prices are more like...Cheesecake Factory :ducks:

I have been going to Roy’s in Maui for over 20 yrs. It is a dramatic hike. Though I was seeing high prices elsewhere as well

 

[Oracle]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

 

[Terminalxylem]

While it’s easier just to look for the lower price, I believe the extra effort (and expense) is usually worth it.

All right. Putting aside our prior "cash for services" discussion: People, in general, aren't typically going the "lowest price" route because it's easier.

Think about how you'd approach life if you lived check-to-check, had no savings or retirement, were late on mortgage and bills regularly, always had to scrape and negotiate and take/make uncomfortable phone calls and on and on just to get by day to day. If you were familiar with having utilities turned off. Of having vehicles repossessed. And you weren't living high on the hog or anything ... you were on the tightrope of the lower, lower, LOWER "middle class" with one slip sending you down into poverty.

What kinds of decisions might you make differently?

Nothing to feel bad about -- you earned your station. Just realize that not everyone is sharing that station with you.

I grew up in conditions like you describe, so this isn’t about the ignorance of privilege.

While it’s fair to call me out for being a little sanctimonious, let’s not pretend a big chunk of our economy isn't predicated on people looking the other way to save a buck, no matter their economic circumstances.

 

[Terminalxylem]

As for the OP, wife and I went to Roy’s last evening for dinner. It’s a reasonably fancy restaurant.

We had two appetizers, entrees and desserts. She drank two glasses of wine, with “happy hour” pricing (one of the apps qualified, too). And I had a coupon for a free dessert.

The total, with tip: $210. That’s about double what it would’ve cost pre-pandemic.

Just spitballing here

If I go to reasonable fancy restaurant I would expect to somewhat pay

Appetizers 12 -18 bucks each, $30
Entrees 22 - 40 bucks each, $62
Desserts 8 - 12 bucks each, $20, but with free dessert $10
Wine 9 - 15 bucks each, $24, happy hour probably $6 for a glass, so $12

That looks like $150 total, so yea $210 seems pricey

I believe the cost of living where you live is lower, so it’s probably reflected in the prices. Nonetheless, I agree $100/head is too much.

 

[Desert_Power]

Went to Roy's when there used to be one in Jacksonville Beach. Good stuff.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

 

[dickey moe]

I suggested that we bring fruit and snacks along to save time. I got overruled by others who insisted on a full breakfast and said they would be hangry if we didn't stop. It's OK to skip meals once in a while.

Doing this helped allow us to splurge when we went out. Why allocate $50-75+ on a mediocre breakfast/lunch while en route then feel like you need to cut corners at dinner when you can bridge your way through travel for the day and have all that available for 'meal' once arriving to your destination. Skipping breakfast/lunch gets us to the destination faster too.

If you ever fly into Maui, they have a Costco right be the main airport. Load up there on breakfast and lunch foods. And booze. Then profit.

Exactly what the wife and I did on our honeymoon trip. Saved us a ton.

 

[Judge Smails]

Reading through this thread, I thought about a recent transaction we had in Rome last month. My wife, son, and I were walking around one day and decided to stop at the Grand Hotel Plaza to have a quick drink. It was a favorite place of our friend so we decided to stop in their lobby bar. The hotel is a pretty luxurious place and rooms go for $500+/night. I figured we would vastly overpay for a couple of Peroni's and by god, we did. They were listed on the cocktail menu as €15/each! Eh, when in Rome....we got them anyway.

After we consumed our €15 Peroni's, we were contemplating what to do next when the bartender/bar manager brought us two more (my wife was drinking a cappuccino, can't remember the price on that), dropped them on the table and said something in broken English akin to "I know these are very expensive so have these two on the house".

Definitely was NOT expecting that and it was certainly appreciated. Despite not being the norm to tip in Europe, we dropped a few extra Euro's on the table when we left.

Way different than my experience in Europe. Family was so parched we had multiple glasses of iced tea. Except it was like pulling teeth to get a single ice cube (I know their norms). And when they brought the bill iced teas alone were $75 euros. No free refills

 

[Oracle]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

I wasn’t really looking to debate the merits of Japanese culture, but congrats on your kids getting into good schools, I guess.

 

[Oracle]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

I wasn’t really looking to debate the merits of Japanese culture, but congrats on your kids getting into good schools, I guess.

Thank you, you are correct… My kids have been successful outside of the Japanese culture.

However, I have noticed that you use the Japanese as the high bar in many of your posts (#602 in this thread…“The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu,”). This has nothing to do with Japan or Asia, this is known worldwide. The Japanese do as much right as they do wrong, just like EVERYBODY else.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

I wasn’t really looking to debate the merits of Japanese culture, but congrats on your kids getting into good schools, I guess.

Thank you, you are correct… My kids have been successful outside of the Japanese culture. However, I have noticed that you reach back to Japanese culture in many of your posts. I suspect you are Japanese or your wife is Japanese. The Japanese do as much right as they do wrong. Just like any other culture.

Interesting observation. I live in Hawaii, so there is a lot of Japanese influence here. I’m Caucasian. My wife is a mixed ethnicity local woman, including part Japanese. But she’s American, and her family has lived in the islands multiple generations.

Again, not debating the pros and cons of the culture. Skiing in Japan is super awesome though.

 

[Oracle]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

I wasn’t really looking to debate the merits of Japanese culture, but congrats on your kids getting into good schools, I guess.

Thank you, you are correct… My kids have been successful outside of the Japanese culture. However, I have noticed that you reach back to Japanese culture in many of your posts. I suspect you are Japanese or your wife is Japanese. The Japanese do as much right as they do wrong. Just like any other culture.

Interesting observation. I live in Hawaii, so there is a lot of Japanese influence here. I’m Caucasian. My wife is a mixed ethnicity local woman, including part Japanese. But she’s American, and her family has lived in the islands multiple generations.

Again, not debating the pros and cons of the culture. Skiing in Japan is super awesome though.

No, it’s not an interesting observation. You often bring up the fact that you are or were married to a Japanese woman. Based upon how often that occurs. I never assumed your knowledge was from generations ago. A lot of your Japanese perspective is off.

I also enjoy skiing in Nagano.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

I wasn’t really looking to debate the merits of Japanese culture, but congrats on your kids getting into good schools, I guess.

Thank you, you are correct… My kids have been successful outside of the Japanese culture. However, I have noticed that you reach back to Japanese culture in many of your posts. I suspect you are Japanese or your wife is Japanese. The Japanese do as much right as they do wrong. Just like any other culture.

Interesting observation. I live in Hawaii, so there is a lot of Japanese influence here. I’m Caucasian. My wife is a mixed ethnicity local woman, including part Japanese. But she’s American, and her family has lived in the islands multiple generations.

Again, not debating the pros and cons of the culture. Skiing in Japan is super awesome though.

No, it’s not an interesting observation. All the time, you bring up the fact that you are or were married to a Japanese woman. However, a lot of your Japanese perspective is off. I also enjoy skiing in Nagano.

Huh? Rather than belaboring this bizarre tangent, I think this is the point where I’m supposed to wish you a great season.

 

[Oracle]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

I wasn’t really looking to debate the merits of Japanese culture, but congrats on your kids getting into good schools, I guess.

Thank you, you are correct… My kids have been successful outside of the Japanese culture. However, I have noticed that you reach back to Japanese culture in many of your posts. I suspect you are Japanese or your wife is Japanese. The Japanese do as much right as they do wrong. Just like any other culture.

Interesting observation. I live in Hawaii, so there is a lot of Japanese influence here. I’m Caucasian. My wife is a mixed ethnicity local woman, including part Japanese. But she’s American, and her family has lived in the islands multiple generations.

Again, not debating the pros and cons of the culture. Skiing in Japan is super awesome though.

No, it’s not an interesting observation. All the time, you bring up the fact that you are or were married to a Japanese woman. However, a lot of your Japanese perspective is off. I also enjoy skiing in Nagano.

Huh? Rather than belaboring this bizarre tangent, I think this is the point where I’m supposed to wish you a great season.

Sounds good! Hopefully you can get to ski Hakuba or Nozawa!

 

[Pip's Invitation]

So, uh, restaurants have gotten pretty expensive, haven't they?

 

[FiredMartz]

How much does it cost to ski in Japan???

 

[Ilov80s]

Very weird tangent. Regardless of how people are or aren’t eating in Okinawa, I think we could all agree most people in the US could stand to eat a little less.

 

[SoBeDad]

Very weird tangent. Regardless of how people are or aren’t eating in Okinawa, I think we could all agree most people in the US could stand to eat a little less.

In a generation, the visual evidence for overeating is dramatic. Look at old family photos, Soul Train videos from the 1970s and 80s, etc. Even though food has gotten more expensive recently, it's still cheap compared to many years ago.

How America Spends Money: 100 Years in the Life of the Family Budget

>>This is our story today: It is a story about how spending on food and clothing went from half the family budget in 1900 to less than a fifth in 2000.It is a story about how a nation that feels poor got so rich. Here's the big picture in one chart showing the share of family spending per category over the 20th century. The big story is that spending on food and clothes has fallen massively while spending on housing and services has gone up.<<

 

[the moops]

Very weird tangent. Regardless of how people are or aren’t eating in Okinawa, I think we could all agree most people in the US could stand to eat a little less.

Also a weird dig at Japanese school system which is ranked #2 in the world compared to #14 US

 

[DA RAIDERS]

So, uh, restaurants have gotten pretty expensive, haven't they?

Especially in japan

 

[dutch]

So, uh, restaurants have gotten pretty expensive, haven't they?

Especially in japan

And don’t get me started on the prices at the Golden Corral in Nagano, outrageous!!

 

[Ilov80s]

Very weird tangent. Regardless of how people are or aren’t eating in Okinawa, I think we could all agree most people in the US could stand to eat a little less.

Also a weird dig at Japanese school system which is ranked #2 in the world compared to #14 US

I didn’t even see that part. Trying to at least sort of stick to the topic.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Gonna pick up some of these for dinner tonight

1904 Hot Dog (14 oz) - Dearborn Brand

6 in a package. *All Dearborn hot dogs are gluten-free. Item# 7482M

dearbornbrand.com

 

[General Malaise]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

I wonder how much or how little processed foods are consumed in their diets. I am completely ignorant and open to learning more about other country's dietary habits and customs as compared to ours in the US.

 

[Joe Bryant]

While it’s fair to call me out for being a little sanctimonious, let’s not pretend a big chunk of our economy isn't predicated on people looking the other way to save a buck, no matter their economic circumstances.

This could and probably should be it's own thread but this is interesting.

In your opinion what percentage of our economy is "predicated on people looking the other way to save a buck" that would constitute "a big chunk"?

And how specifically are you saying people do that? By paying cash?

It's interesting to me as I don't see this as a big issue but you continue to talk about it so obviously we see it differently.

And to be clear, how is it a negative and "looking the other way" when people do something like choose a cash discount in a store?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I wonder how much or how little processed foods are consumed in their diets. I am completely ignorant and open to learning more about other country's dietary habits and customs as compared to ours in the US.

"Blue Zones" where people live longer are interesting. It's much of the stuff you'd think eating healthier and less processed and less food. There are some interesting social aspects too with people living longer that have stronger social relationships. https://www.bluezones.com/news/social-connections-longevity-seniors/

 

[General Malaise]

TIL, costco started that $1.50 hot dog/soda combo back in 1985. They don't ask you to tip either.

They also know they're selling them to folks that paid $60-$120 annually just for the luxury of spending $200-300 every time they enter the establishment.

And honestly, a hot dog and a fountain soda cost Costco far less than $1.50.

Tell me a place where you can get it for that price? Do it? Heck, make it $2.50 just to include the additional $1 a week I pay for the membership. We won't even take into account all the membership benefits b/c that wouldn't be fair. I'll be waiting for your response at the food court eating a hot dog in your honor.

Not understanding this response. I'm not anti-Costco at all; family of 7, it's a necessity for us. We pay the $120 each year gladly but we also get the rebate check to help offset and, as you mention, all the other perks of membership. But the membership dues help supplement that cheap hotdog and soda combo. Costco also makes those hotdogs themselves which helps defray their costs.

But personally speaking, I don't eat hot dogs anymore. They are probably the worst thing you could consume. Same goes for soda. I quit that stuff 20 years ago. It's really really bad for you. But I can recognize that the $1.50 hotdog/soda deal at Costco is attractive to many.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I wonder how much or how little processed foods are consumed in their diets.

My mother swears that, because her elders almost never ate anything processed, that they lived longer. Can't argue with the evidence - most of the women a couple of generations above me lived into their 90s. Most of the men drank, smoked, and fought - they tended to leave us a little earlier I was 19 years old when my great-great aunt passed - she was born in 1887. She outlived her sisters, but she was younger than them and all of them hit at least 90. Unless we got pizza or McDonald's or something a few times a year (like, less than a dozen all combined), everything I ate growing up was raised on our farm (or a relative's). I didn't buy a vegetable in a grocery store until I was in my mid-20s. Of course, I also submerged myself in booze/smokes/drugs so I think I may have tilted the odds out of my favor.

 

[General Malaise]

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

When my daughters friend challenged her on July 4th to eat as many free vegan hot dogs as possible at Dodger stadium, no time limit, she "only" did 7. She said that by eating slowly, instead of ravenously like Joey Chestnut, she felt full and couldn't eat more, as the food hit her stomach. Eating slowly, like in Europe, and mindfully, is one way to be satisfied with less. When I went to Europe many years ago, they weren't familiar with the concept of doggie bags.

I notice in Europe most restaurants aren't trying to constantly turn tables either. They let you sit and enjoy your meal in peace. No subtle hints like giving you the check when it's time to finish up.

If anything it’s the opposite. When you want to leave it takes forever to get your check.

First piece of advice I got as a server: you male or break your tip on the closeout.

...really? Wasn't my experience. Sure, if you try to nudge someone out that's not ready to roll they may round down, but you'll more than make up for it with the group that replaces them at the table rather than having a table of squatters taking up space for an hour during rush.

My way of looking at it was this: Read the table. If they're ready to close out, get it done quickly so they can be on their way. If you dawdle, you'll give them a reason not to tip well even if you were superlative with your service. If you do have a table that wants to camp, they might want a cup of coffee or dessert so just keep presenting them with options while their taking up real estate. Eventually they'll leave, but if you rush them out the door, they may reduce the tip for the opposite reason as a table that wants to get on with their days.

Does that make sense?

 

[General Malaise]

They also know they're selling them to folks that paid $60-$120 annually

Sure but I get that back and way more with my 2%.

The people that pay $120 are. The people that pay $60 are not. We also gladly pay the $120 for the same reason...

 

[massraider]

My mother swears that, because her elders almost never ate anything processed, that they lived longer

It's not how long they last. It's how they went out. What was that last 20 years like?


It's what kind of completely preventable chronic diseases and physical issues they didn't have fed to them by their parents, which is what is currently happening.

 

[Joe Bryant]

My way of looking at it was this: Read the table.

This. Understanding and anticipating what your guests want is the definition of hospitality and good service.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

My mother swears that, because her elders almost never ate anything processed, that they lived longer

It's not how long they last. It's how they went out. What was that last 20 years like?


It's what kind of completely preventable chronic diseases and physical issues they didn't have fed to them by their parents, which is what is currently happening.

That's a good point and I'm glad you raised it. These folks were gathering eggs, picked kale, up earlier then everyone else to make breakfast when they were the oldest person in the house. This isn't me romanticizing it - I saw it and lived it. It's anecdotal, but I was there. Maybe people living in less healthy environments like large cities had it different.

We moved in with my great-great aunt when she had a stroke (fried pork what that generation's downfall when it caught). This was in 1969, I think, so I was 6 or 7. She kept kicking. It was maybe the last two years - after a couple more strokes - where she couldn't do the things I was used to her doing. She was spry up until 1978 or 1979. She didn't drive anymore, but she could shop with my mom until then.

 

[General Malaise]

I wonder how much or how little processed foods are consumed in their diets. I am completely ignorant and open to learning more about other country's dietary habits and customs as compared to ours in the US.

"Blue Zones" where people live longer are interesting. It's much of the stuff you'd think eating healthier and less processed and less food. There are some interesting social aspects too with people living longer that have stronger social relationships. https://www.bluezones.com/news/social-connections-longevity-seniors/

You've read "Outliers" from Malcom Gladwell? Starts it off looking at Roseto, PA where a largely Italian population was outliving the rest of the country despite sharing the same sort of dietary habits and habits of the day (smoking unfiltered cigs, eating more pastas/red meat). Fascinating - Roseto Effect. The citizens lived close together, revered their elders, no keeping up with the Joneses, big sense of community.

 

[Joe Bryant]

You've read "Outliers" from Malcom Gladwell? Starts it off looking at Roseto, PA where a largely Italian population was outliving the rest of the country despite sharing the same sort of dietary habits and habits of the day (smoking unfiltered cigs, eating more pastas/red meat). Fascinating - Roseto Effect. The citizens lived close together, revered their elders, no keeping up with the Joneses, big sense of community.

I'm 100% convinced this is true. Real life connection is invaluable.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

You've read "Outliers" from Malcom Gladwell? Starts it off looking at Roseto, PA where a largely Italian population was outliving the rest of the country despite sharing the same sort of dietary habits and habits of the day (smoking unfiltered cigs, eating more pastas/red meat). Fascinating - Roseto Effect. The citizens lived close together, revered their elders, no keeping up with the Joneses, big sense of community.

I'm 100% convinced this is true. Real life connection is invaluable.

There have been numerous studies showing that social isolation and loneliness are risk factors for heart disease. The Roseto Effect is the converse.

 

[General Malaise]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

I wonder how much or how little processed foods are consumed in their diets. I am completely ignorant and open to learning more about other country's dietary habits and customs as compared to ours in the US.

This doesn’t answer your question, but shows some of the differences in international dietary habits.

Pretty sure there are posters willing to act as Japanese cultural references

That's pretty cool. Thanks for sharing that!

 

[Terminalxylem]

While it’s fair to call me out for being a little sanctimonious, let’s not pretend a big chunk of our economy isn't predicated on people looking the other way to save a buck, no matter their economic circumstances.

This could and probably should be it's own thread but this is interesting.

In your opinion what percentage of our economy is "predicated on people looking the other way to save a buck" that would constitute "a big chunk"?

And how specifically are you saying people do that? By paying cash?

It's interesting to me as I don't see this as a big issue but you continue to talk about it so obviously we see it differently.

And to be clear, how is it a negative and "looking the other way" when people do something like choose a cash discount in a store?

To be clear, the potential for cash transactions enabling tax evasion is pretty low on the list of bad stuff we ignore as consumers. And it’s not always an issue to pay with cash.

Bigger things we collectively turn a blind eye to result primarily from outsourcing cheap labor and materials to countries where worker rights and the environment are an afterthought. Of course some of that exists among domestic companies, too.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

I wasn’t really looking to debate the merits of Japanese culture, but congrats on your kids getting into good schools, I guess.

Thank you, you are correct… My kids have been successful outside of the Japanese culture. However, I have noticed that you reach back to Japanese culture in many of your posts. I suspect you are Japanese or your wife is Japanese. The Japanese do as much right as they do wrong. Just like any other culture.

Interesting observation. I live in Hawaii, so there is a lot of Japanese influence here. I’m Caucasian. My wife is a mixed ethnicity local woman, including part Japanese. But she’s American, and her family has lived in the islands multiple generations.

Again, not debating the pros and cons of the culture. Skiing in Japan is super awesome though.

Ever ski in Hawaii?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Bigger things we collectively turn a blind eye to result primarily from outsourcing cheap labor and materials to countries where worker rights and the environment are an afterthought. Of course some of that exists among domestic companies, too.

Thanks. How practically is the consumer then to operate in the real world? What is the responsibility of the consumer?

Lots of people are just at the grocery store or farmers market or restaurant or hardware store or shopping on Amazon. I think they're likely just buying what they need or want. That feels very different from the way more negative accusation of "looking the other way to save a buck" and then feigning ignorance.

 

[FairWarning]

While it’s fair to call me out for being a little sanctimonious, let’s not pretend a big chunk of our economy isn't predicated on people looking the other way to save a buck, no matter their economic circumstances.

This could and probably should be it's own thread but this is interesting.

In your opinion what percentage of our economy is "predicated on people looking the other way to save a buck" that would constitute "a big chunk"?

And how specifically are you saying people do that? By paying cash?

It's interesting to me as I don't see this as a big issue but you continue to talk about it so obviously we see it differently.

And to be clear, how is it a negative and "looking the other way" when people do something like choose a cash discount in a store?

To be clear, the potential for cash transactions enabling tax evasion is pretty low on the list of bad stuff we ignore as consumers. And it’s not always an issue to pay with cash.

Bigger things we collectively turn a blind eye to result primarily from outsourcing cheap labor and materials to countries where worker rights and the environment are an afterthought. Of course some of that exists among domestic companies, too.

Do you shop at WalMart? many companies do this because WalMart demands the lowest price.

 

[FairWarning]

Bigger things we collectively turn a blind eye to result primarily from outsourcing cheap labor and materials to countries where worker rights and the environment are an afterthought. Of course some of that exists among domestic companies, too.

Thanks. How practically is the consumer then to operate in the real world? What is the responsibility of the consumer?

Lots of people are just at the grocery store or farmers market or restaurant or hardware store or shopping on Amazon. I think they're likely just buying what they need or want. That feels very different from the way more negative accusation of "looking the other way to save a buck" and then feigning ignorance.

It would depend on where you live and your options. I don’t shop at Walmart, but understand that some don’t have that choice. I also understand that price can be a big issue for many families, and big corporations win the pricing war.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It would depend on where you live and your options. I don’t shop at Walmart, but understand that some don’t have that choice. I also understand that price can be a big issue for many families, and big corporations win the pricing war.

Yes. But I'm more interested in how he navigates day-to-day as a consumer. I just don't know how you'd do it.

Or maybe he's saying he just "looks the other way then feigns ignorance" too.

In the last 5 minutes I've had a coffee, a banana and typed on a macbook computer. I'm guessing Apple has some assurance of good working conditions in China but I don't know if it's real. And I have no idea at all about the coffee or banana.

 

[Joe Bryant]

AND back to the original topic of expensive food in restaurants, this is somewhat related as restuarants face these price pressures too. It's related.

 

[FairWarning]

It would depend on where you live and your options. I don’t shop at Walmart, but understand that some don’t have that choice. I also understand that price can be a big issue for many families, and big corporations win the pricing war.

Yes. But I'm more interested in how he navigates day-to-day as a consumer. I just don't know how you'd do it.

Or maybe he's saying he just "looks the other way then feigns ignorance" too.

In the last 5 minutes I've had a coffee, a banana and typed on a macbook computer. I'm guessing Apple has some assurance of good working conditions in China but I don't know if it's real. And I have no idea at all about the coffee or banana.

I do share a lot of his views, but more at a corporate level.

 

[dkp993]

TIL, costco started that $1.50 hot dog/soda combo back in 1985. They don't ask you to tip either.

Yeah but then you have to eat a hot dog and drink a pop. They should be paying you to do that.

The slice of pizza is fantastic, and a deal too.

 

[Dezbelief]

So, uh, restaurants have gotten pretty expensive, haven't they?

Someone should start a thread on that.

 

[MAC_32]

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

When my daughters friend challenged her on July 4th to eat as many free vegan hot dogs as possible at Dodger stadium, no time limit, she "only" did 7. She said that by eating slowly, instead of ravenously like Joey Chestnut, she felt full and couldn't eat more, as the food hit her stomach. Eating slowly, like in Europe, and mindfully, is one way to be satisfied with less. When I went to Europe many years ago, they weren't familiar with the concept of doggie bags.

I notice in Europe most restaurants aren't trying to constantly turn tables either. They let you sit and enjoy your meal in peace. No subtle hints like giving you the check when it's time to finish up.

If anything it’s the opposite. When you want to leave it takes forever to get your check.

First piece of advice I got as a server: you male or break your tip on the closeout.

...really? Wasn't my experience. Sure, if you try to nudge someone out that's not ready to roll they may round down, but you'll more than make up for it with the group that replaces them at the table rather than having a table of squatters taking up space for an hour during rush.

My way of looking at it was this: Read the table. If they're ready to close out, get it done quickly so they can be on their way. If you dawdle, you'll give them a reason not to tip well even if you were superlative with your service. If you do have a table that wants to camp, they might want a cup of coffee or dessert so just keep presenting them with options while their taking up real estate. Eventually they'll leave, but if you rush them out the door, they may reduce the tip for the opposite reason as a table that wants to get on with their days.

Does that make sense?

Oh, yeah. And standard reading the room rules always apply, but if the trade off to losing $5 from the squatters is an extra table then I'll net ahead. The decision making process is also a whole lot different at 9 pm than it is at 6. The latter and they can banter over their extra cocktails all they want while I work on my outs, but the former with a wait at the door? I gotta be trending towards something good if they're gonna get anything other than a proactive bill.

 

[Oracle]

Probably healthier. When I was in Europe 30 years ago, I noticed that portion sizes were smaller. Also healthier, since total calories alone predicts a poor lipid profile (see the twinkie diet). Vegan restaurants should be cheaper, but they aren't since the market size is small.

This is a biggie for me. And to me huge proponent of healthy heating for folks who are trying to diet and get fit. When I'm cranking on all cylinders I really watch the portions for dinners at home and restaurants.

We've tried to install this with our kids since they were little. Eat until you are full. Don't feel like you have to eat everything on your plate.

I still struggle with the idea of wasting food, but there’s an argument to take what you’re saying a step further: stop eating before you are full. This is especially true if you eat quickly, as satiety lags behind adequate caloric intake.

The Japanese suggest stopping at 80% full, in their expression hara hachi bu, based on a Confucian teaching. This may explain some of the extreme longevity seen in places like Okinawa. Animal studies show benefit from undereating, too.

Your statement about the Japanese and Okinawan’s USED to be true. I was stationed in Okinawa for four years and I’m currently on my second year of four years in Tokyo (Ginza/ Hiro-o). Your above statement is completely false regarding people 55 and younger in Japan and Okinawa.

Pretty sure Okinawa is still considered a “blue zone”, notable for longevity, even if younger generations are adopting unhealthy habits (eg. Western diet). I doubt those changes have completely been assimilated by everyone younger than middle age, but I’m open to learning otherwise.

Regardless, my point remains: there may be value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full.

There is absolutely value in stopping eating BEFORE you are full. I know I was taught that as a kiddo. However, I would never use the Japanese as the high bar/standard to live up to.

I can tell you that there is more wrong “thinking” in Japan than there is right/ good behavior. I guess it’s knowing the “why“ behind their behavior as to why it is just so sad. That said, I’m glad my kids and I got to enjoy/experience this culture.

I’m also thankful that I never put my kids into the Japanese education system. The Japanese education system is awful at best . Both of my kids are extremely successful. I have a computer engineer at ORNL and a daughter getting her PhD at MIT. I do not think my kids would have been as successful if they were put in the Japanese education system.

I wasn’t really looking to debate the merits of Japanese culture, but congrats on your kids getting into good schools, I guess.

Thank you, you are correct… My kids have been successful outside of the Japanese culture. However, I have noticed that you reach back to Japanese culture in many of your posts. I suspect you are Japanese or your wife is Japanese. The Japanese do as much right as they do wrong. Just like any other culture.

Interesting observation. I live in Hawaii, so there is a lot of Japanese influence here. I’m Caucasian. My wife is a mixed ethnicity local woman, including part Japanese. But she’s American, and her family has lived in the islands multiple generations.

Again, not debating the pros and cons of the culture. Skiing in Japan is super awesome though.

No, it’s not an interesting observation. All the time, you bring up the fact that you are or were married to a Japanese woman. However, a lot of your Japanese perspective is off. I also enjoy skiing in Nagano.

Huh? Rather than belaboring this bizarre tangent, I think this is the point where I’m supposed to wish you a great season.

I apologize for my behavior on this tangent. It does get overwhelming and tiring when I deal with the xenophobia between the Japanese and Okinawans. I had a little bit too much to drink Thursday evening and let my emotions get out of control.