Reward Teams Higher Draft Picks For Hiring Minorities (1 Viewer)

[Ilov80s]

This thread should be locked and deleted honestly. 

 

[az_prof]

I feel like one of the reasons there are more white head coaches is they get into coaching really early. Some of these guys start in their early 20s right after they finish college as quality control assistants and work their way up and their goal from very early on is to be a head coach and that gives them a leg up.  A lot of the minority coaches get into coaching after their NFL career is over.

Wouldn't being an NFL player be pretty good experience for being a coach? 

And I think you are ignoring nepotism.  Seems like a lof of guys get their opportunity because of family connections.

But the universities have something to do with this because the NFL draws a lot of talent from university coaches. Right now only 10% of Division I head coaches are black so that limits the pool of possible coaches to move up to the NFL.

There is clearly a problem.  I don't know how best to address it but the problem is obvious.

 

[menobrown]

I find it hilarious that they think the world is racist only against black and brown people.  Why don't Asians and Indians have an issue in America? 

  Where is the representation of Asian and Indian people? 

I agree with a lot of the stuff you said but since this is an NFL football forum let's keep this confined to the NFL attempts to get more minorities hired in head coach and front office positions.

I don't see anything in an any NFL policy or proposed policy that says anything about hiring more black coaches or executives in those roles.   When Ron Rivera was hired by Carolina and then the Redskins he was considered a minority hire. Any policy the NFL is attempting to take to get more minorities hired would include Asians, Indians and Latino's.

I understand your far more reaching point that goes beyond football, the group that cries the loudest is only group people seem to pay attention to with regards to racism. A lot of stuff to get into with this and some of your other points that for the most part I agree with but is not intended for a football forum.

Just stating that while I don't really care for league policies trying to get more minorities hired, just fail to see the need, any policy the league has ever taken or considered taking  does not specify it's just for people of African American descent, it's for any minority.

 

[wgoldsph]

I find it hilarious that they think the world is racist only against black and brown people.  Why don't Asians and Indians have an issue in America?  They are doctors, lawyers, IT professionals, etc...  Are we to believe that America only hates black and brown people?  Does anyone possibly think that it could be more to do with social culture, lack of fathers, and lack of education than racism?  The race baiters known as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton make tens of millions of dollars keeping the victimhood culture alive, and make you dependent on them for representation.  Do better.  Wake the eff up.

Wooo this went off the rails fast.  Babe this is America, there's still people alive who couldn't sit down at a restaurant without getting lynched.  There's a guy who was shot dead in the middle of the street in broad daylight because he was jogging while black and it took a social media outcry before the yokels who did it got charged with anything.  Stop embarrassing yourself and stick to football.

 

[JohnnyU]

Wooo this went off the rails fast.  Babe this is America, there's still people alive who couldn't sit down at a restaurant without getting lynched.  There's a guy who was shot dead in the middle of the street in broad daylight because he was jogging while black and it took a social media outcry before the yokels who did it got charged with anything.  Stop embarrassing yourself and stick to football.

Comparing mid 20th century racism to needing to hire a larger percentage of blacks in 64 jobs (32 coaches and 32 GMs) at the expense of other groups simply because they are black is ridiculous and you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[wgoldsph]

Comparing mid 20th century racism to needing to hire a larger percentage of blacks in 64 jobs (32 coaches and 32 GMs) at the expense of other groups simply because they are black is ridiculous and you are embarrassing yourself.

Did you read what I was replying to or what?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

The Ravens had a black gm for about 30 years. Can they retroactively get some draft picks please?

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Does anybody have  ideas?

Al Davis had ideas. First minority coach in the NFL. First African American coach in the modern era. First woman CEO.

The idea? Just hire them, baby.

 

[djmich]

Well I mean that’s the way it’s been in America since.......forever. 

So let’s keep it going?

 

[Capella]

So let’s keep it going?

That is certainly the way some people would like it, unfortunately. 

 

[Mr. Peterson]

This is insane.  How about just hiring the best person for the job regardless of the color of their skin or the sex they were born.  

 

[ICON211]

This is insane.  How about just hiring the best person for the job regardless of the color of their skin or the sex they were born.  

I think you just stumbled upon something.  How many spots should a team move up in the draft if they hire a transgender coach?  That has to be worth 20 spots, no?  None of the 32 current coaches are transgender.  What an outrage.

 

[Mingooch]

Can 23 and me or other genetic testers be used to get the advantages?

 

[BassNBrew]

There aren’t 8 now and it’s telling you think 25% of the coaches being black is sufficient in a league where 85% of the players are. 

Don't you think coaching and playing are two different types of jobs?

Personally I think the area where there's a diversity issue is in ownership.  While I wouldn't support forcing an owner to sell, the NFL could expand by two teams a seek minority ownership for those two teams.

 

[BoltBacker]

I propose using the same rewards system for teams that play white cornerbacks, tailbacks, and wide receivers.

It doesn't have to be white. How many Vietnamese starting QB's in the league? Is that fair?

 

[BoltBacker]

Al Davis had ideas. First minority coach in the NFL. First African American coach in the modern era. First woman CEO.

The idea? Just hire them, baby.

This is all true. Honestly, if the franchise had been a little more successful recently the league would be quick to copy ANYTHING that led to success.

Maybe I'm just too "woke" to see it, but imo the race of a QB plays absolutely no factor on where he will get drafted right now. That wasn't the case 30 years ago. If Doug Williams wins the SB and Cam Newton wins MVP people will line up to draft a minority QB.

 

[BoltBacker]

Don't you think coaching and playing are two different types of jobs?

That's the big disconnect I have as well.

Being a great football PLAYER <> Being a great football COACH

That doesn't mean that one completely precludes the other but there is much less overlap between the two that some people seem to think. 

If I were a WR I'd love to see a young Bill Belichick in a back pedal across from me.

 

[BoltBacker]

Moving up in the third round is not the only part of the proposal.

• If a team hires a minority head coach, that team, in the draft preceding the coach’s second season, would move up six spots from where it is slotted to pick in the third round. A team would jump 10 spots under the same scenario for hiring a person of color as its primary football executive, a position commonly known as general manager.
  
• If a team were to fill both positions with diverse candidates in the same year, that club could jump 16 spots — six for the coach, 10 for the GM — and potentially move from the top of the third round to the middle of the second round. Another incentive: a team’s fourth-round pick would climb five spots in the draft preceding the coach’s or GM’s third year if he is still with the team. 
  
• If a minority assistant left to become a coordinator elsewhere, his former club would receive a fifth-round compensatory pick. And if a person of color leaves to become a head coach or general manager, his previous team would receive a third-round compensatory pick.
  
• Any team that hires a person of color as its quarterbacks coach would receive a compensatory pick at the end of the fourth round if it retains that employee beyond one season.
  

I would actually love to see this put in place. Not because it's a good idea(seems TERRIBLE). But you have to admit it would be fun listening to 90+% of fans lose their minds because the Patriots and Ravens squeezed every single advantage out of this system to their advantage every year. Bill Belichick would officially be the Patriots "ball boy" who just happened to be paid more than any of the coaches on the staff and made all the decisions. It would be pretty hilarious.

 

[BoltBacker]

Bad idea but the NFL does have a problem with a lack of minority coaches and GMs OWNERS.

That's really the way to fix it much more quickly than all these terrible ideas.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

This is all true. Honestly, if the franchise had been a little more successful recently the league would be quick to copy ANYTHING that led to success.

I am not sure what the team's recent success has to do with it. But we didn't see the league copy-cat Flores's success.

A little more on that success:  Flores was the NFL's first minority head coach to win a Super Bowl. And he did it twice. Not counting the ring he won as an assistant coach (to Madden, Super Bowl XI). Flores became head coach in 1979, led the Raiders as a wild card playoff team to win Super Bowl XV in 1980 (first WC to ever win the SB). Was AFC Coach of the year in 1982. In 83 he lead the team to another Super Bowl (XVIII). 72.7% win rate (8/11) in post season.

I don't know if you saw a big influx of minority coaches throughout the ranks in the early/mid 80s because of Flores. But we definitely didn't see it as far as head coaches go in the wake of Flores's success.

The next minority coach in the NFL after Flores was also for the Raiders -- Shell in 89. A decade seemed to go by after Flores before you saw coaches like Denny Green, Ray Rhodes, and Dungy come along in the mid-90s.

You had 19 minority coaches in 16 years post-Rooney Rule (2003-2019) as opposed to 6 in the 24 years prior to the Rooney Rule back to when Flores became HC. Not sure the Rooney Rule was the entire reason for that acceleration, but it's clear that the NFL is not always a copy-cat league, especially when it comes to diversity in their HC ranks.

They aren't the only business to struggle with diversity in executive ranks. And I like experimentation and education to drive that diversity.

But this latest effort is sooooo forced and ham-fisted.

 

[ICON211]

There aren’t 8 now and it’s telling you think 25% of the coaches being black is sufficient in a league where 85% of the players are. 

So if we use this logic and my office is 90% white guys then you think management at my company should also be 90% white guys?

 

[GroveDiesel]

New rule being passed immediately.

Basically teams have to interview at least 1 external minority candidate for every position coordinator and above including for GM and executive office positions.

 

[massraider]

I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

This is a stupid idea. 

 

[Kevrunner]

New rule being passed immediately.

Basically teams have to interview at least 1 external minority candidate for every position coordinator and above including for GM and executive office positions.

I hope the NFL does this and drops the draft pick incentive nonsense. 

 

[BoltBacker]

I am not sure what the team's recent success has to do with it. But we didn't see the league copy-cat Flores's success.

I guess I was talking about Amy Trask(in the late 90's) and Art Shell. Honestly, I didn't realize Art Shell was as successful as he was in the early 90's. For some reason I thought people always thought of those raider teams as under-performing but compared to how they have played recently he actually did very well. Maybe it's that 2006 season that tarnished my memory of him a bit.

In any case it wasn't meant as a back handed compliment and I was trying to give the raiders full credit for minority hires. I've never liked the organization especially but I've always liked Art Shell despite the fact I never had the opportunity to see him play. 

 

[nysfl2]

There aren’t 8 now and it’s telling you think 25% of the coaches being black is sufficient in a league where 85% of the players are. 

What percentage of coaches being black would be right in your book, given that african-americans make up 12-14% of the US population?

 

[pinequick]

What does that have to do with NFL affirmative action?  I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Since black on black crime, make up about 94% of black /violence murders in America, going back to at least the mid-seventies, do you really think black societies biggest problem is the handful of racist idiots?  If your answer is yes, then you need a better education.  It's especially telling that black people, financially speaking, were better off pre-civil rights passage.  There was a larger number of black business owners.  They made more money.  They had better educations.  What changed?  How is it even possible that after the passage of civil rights in 1964, black people have largely gone financially, and educationally backwards?  I mean my goodness, think about that for a second.  How is that even possible?  Is your answer truly racism?  You've been brainwashed if you answer yes to that. 

And then to circle back to the NFL, black people aren't the only race that matters.  They aren't the only ones that should be crying, although they are.  Since affirmative action has been a gigantic failure in society, why would you think it would work better within the NFL.  Being a private organization, the NFL needs to let the best talent rise to the top, and let people vote with their dollar if they are unhappy.

Wow, this sure is an optimistic view.  So your boss is your boss because he/she is smarter and better than you?  That's how you think the world works?

 

[wgoldsph]

What does that have to do with NFL affirmative action?  I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Since black on black crime, make up about 94% of black /violence murders in America, going back to at least the mid-seventies, do you really think black societies biggest problem is the handful of racist idiots?  If your answer is yes, then you need a better education.  It's especially telling that black people, financially speaking, were better off pre-civil rights passage.  There was a larger number of black business owners.  They made more money.  They had better educations.  What changed?  How is it even possible that after the passage of civil rights in 1964, black people have largely gone financially, and educationally backwards?  I mean my goodness, think about that for a second.  How is that even possible?  Is your answer truly racism?  You've been brainwashed if you answer yes to that. 

And then to circle back to the NFL, black people aren't the only race that matters.  They aren't the only ones that should be crying, although they are.  Since affirmative action has been a gigantic failure in society, why would you think it would work better within the NFL.  Being a private organization, the NFL needs to let the best talent rise to the top, and let people vote with their dollar if they are unhappy.

It doesn't because your post didn't.  Race on race crime makes up nearly all crime not just black, you're just cherry picking numbers.  Laws are highly prejudicial against blacks - look at the punishment for use of cocaine vs crack. And yeah, when you take an entire group and throw them into the worst possible ghettos with the worst health care, education, living conditions, they're going to back slide.  Modern cities were literally built around keeping black and brown minorities poor and under educated.  Laws were passed (Jim crow?) to treat them as lesser than. But sure to you if it weren't for saggy pants we'd all be living in harmony.

You're not talking about football.  You're using your racist ideology to disparage an entire group of people across any field they might possibly work in.  That's the core of the argument.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Perhaps there should, after decades of discrimination, be some kind of incentive to a team for hiring a qualified black coach.

that incentive should not be in the form of draft picks.

honestly don’t know what that incentive might be, but it shouldn’t have anything to do with the draft. 

You also don’t bar coaches who’ve been fired from interviewing. You can’t fix discrimination with mote creative & interesting forms of discrimination. 

that said, I do believe the NFL would do well to promote more people of color to head coaching positions. It’s sad that team owners are hesitant to do so in the year 2020. What’s the solution? I have no idea.

You can’t force a team owner to hire a coach. There have been several more than capable POC in the HC position. Tony Dungy & Tom Flores come to mind. 

its challenging because of you look deeper, there’s a higher % of white Head coaches in college, which is often the pool they're fishing from, provided it’s not a retread (which for some reason teams love to hire).  And with such a small sample size of available positions year to year. I mean, there are 32 HC jobs. Of those, as many as what, 25-28 are safe year to year? So they’re filling like ~7 positions. 

I am not so privileged as to ignore that there is a race problem in America. I’m also not of the belief that any of the proposals (including the Rooney rule) will help to fix that problem in the NFL head coaching world.

one day i’d love to see Katie Sowers as a head coach just to hear everyone’s heads explode. It’d be hilarious because who would truly care if a woman coaches a team? But if that came to pass and she was desirous of an interview for a HC opening, would any of the new rules apply to women? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

What if the incentive was hiring a great coach who will take your team to great levels of success?

This whole thing is absolutely bonkers...

The NFL owners are concerned that they themselves are too discriminatory that the NFL owners want to incentivize themselves to not be discriminatory...

Is this bizarro world? If the NFL owners are going through some white guilt, how about just hiring minority coaches!!! Why do they need to incentivize it? 

HSG, not to single you out, but as a business owner I hope you can see how nuts this is. If you realized you were subconsciously avoiding interviewing minority candidates, wouldnt you just try your best to stop doing that? 

I’m on your side of this discussion so I’m not sure how I’m supposed to respond to this. You may have misread my post.

peehaps I wasn’t clear enough in articulating that I think this is a stupid idea. 

just in case: I thinK this is a stupid idea. 
 

the only idea I could offer up that might actually help society would be for the NFL to do some sort of community outreach to help combat systemic racism in general. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Should there be more white players in the NBA?  If your answer is no, then shame on you for being hypocritical.

This is a straw man. You asked a question, then called me a hypocrite based on what you presumed my answer would be. 

back on ignore you go. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

You probably didn't even read what I wrote, and you skipped over practically every point I made.  I know this because your rant is just a continuation of the victimhood culture, making excuses for poor choices and bad behavior and passing personal responsibility onto others.  Again, other races/ethnic groups (Asian and Indian, to just name two) thrive in America.  Why don't black/brown people?  Americans just have it out for them?  How comes Cubans and puerto ricans thrive, but people from Mexico cry racism?  Aren't those people all 'brown'?  And again, FINANCIALLY speaking, black people were better off pre-civil rights act of 1964.  More black people owned businesses.  Black people made more money.  Black people had a better education.  Are you really suggesting that Americans have more hate/racism now that is holding the black person down, then they did pre-1964?  That's exactly what you seem to be saying.  The statistics absolutely do not support your assertion.

I read every word that you wrote. And if I'm honest, it was hard for me to do so.

You cited black-on-black crime as a worse problem for African Americans than the endemic, deep-rooted, and pervasive societal racism (which you relegated to a handful of bigots), which still runs rampant today.

You accused African Americans of being the only race "crying" about racism.

You've boiled down the impact of over 300 years of systemic cultural, political, economic, and socieoeconomic disadvantage as "victimhood culture" and the result of African Americans' "poor choices and bad behavior and passing personal responsibility onto others."

I don't know where to even begin with this without it going down a really disparaging road.

So I guess I'll just stick to data, and your continued assertion that African Americans were better off financially prior to the Civil Rights movement than they are today.

Which is, by any number of studies, completely wrong.

https://www.epi.org/publication/50-years-after-the-kerner-commission/

The substantial progress in educational attainment of African Americans has been accompanied by significant absolute improvements in wages, incomes, wealth, and health since 1968...The typical black family had almost no wealth in 1968 ($2,467; data refer to 19637). Today, that figure is about six times larger ($17,409).

The inflation-adjusted annual income of the typical African American household increased 42.8 percent between 1968 and 2016

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/black-progress-how-far-weve-come-and-how-far-we-have-to-go/

From 1940 to 1970, black men cut the income gap by about a third, and by 1970 they were earning (on average) roughly 60 percent of what white men took in.

 the fraction of black families with middle-class incomes rose almost 40 percentage points between 1940 and 1970.

 

[Vandelay]

This site picks the dumbest #### to moderate.  What does any of this have to do with fantasy football?  

 

[wgoldsph]

I must have missed this quip.  But this is exactly why people like you do nothing to help the black cause, and do everything to hold them back.  I have no idea if you are black or not, but I'm not disparaging anything.  You're calling me a racist for no reason.  Throwing around demeaning terminology without a shred of evidence, while not being willing to engage in a factual discussion does nothing.  I am telling you and others that black people can be so much more.  They need to let go of the victimhood, take on personal responsibility, and they have just as must opportunity as others.  You just whine about how unfair life is.  How they can't do it themselves.  They need free stuff.  They need affirmative action to be successful.  That's such a crock of crap.

I specifically made a point to call your ideology and not you a racist.  Don't want to get banned.  But if you want to call yourself racist, I'm not stopping you.

But nearly everything you said was wrong.  This post said it better than I did.

I read every word that you wrote. And if I'm honest, it was hard for me to do so.

You cited black-on-black crime as a worse problem for African Americans than the endemic, deep-rooted, and pervasive societal racism (which you relegated to a handful of bigots), which still runs rampant today.

You accused African Americans of being the only race "crying" about racism.

You've boiled down the impact of over 300 years of systemic cultural, political, economic, and socieoeconomic disadvantage as "victimhood culture" and the result of African Americans' "poor choices and bad behavior and passing personal responsibility onto others."

I don't know where to even begin with this without it going down a really disparaging road.

So I guess I'll just stick to data, and your continued assertion that African Americans were better off financially prior to the Civil Rights movement than they are today.

Which is, by any number of studies, completely wrong.

https://www.epi.org/publication/50-years-after-the-kerner-commission/

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/black-progress-how-far-weve-come-and-how-far-we-have-to-go/

 

[Joe Bryant]

What does that have to do with NFL affirmative action?  I'll answer that for you, nothing.

Since black on black crime, make up about 94% of black /violence murders in America, going back to at least the mid-seventies, do you really think black societies biggest problem is the handful of racist idiots?  If your answer is yes, then you need a better education.  It's especially telling that black people, financially speaking, were better off pre-civil rights passage.  There was a larger number of black business owners.  They made more money.  They had better educations.  What changed?  How is it even possible that after the passage of civil rights in 1964, black people have largely gone financially, and educationally backwards?  I mean my goodness, think about that for a second.  How is that even possible?  Is your answer truly racism?  You've been brainwashed if you answer yes to that. 

And then to circle back to the NFL, black people aren't the only race that matters.  They aren't the only ones that should be crying, although they are.  Since affirmative action has been a gigantic failure in society, why would you think it would work better within the NFL.  Being a private organization, the NFL needs to let the best talent rise to the top, and let people vote with their dollar if they are unhappy.

Drop this topic. We're keeping this 100% football. If you want to go on this rant, take it to another website.