Rookie WR's after a bit of preseason action.. (1 Viewer)

[Jayrod]

I was wondering what dynasty owners were seeing in the WR crop this year. With a dropoff from the top 4-5 RB's and only a couple of decent QB's, WR's will play very prominantly in the first two rounds of rookie drafts. Even in my IDP league, I expect about half of the first 20 picks to be WR's.

Here's a list of guys I find highly relevant in an 12 team dynasty league (after Dez Bryant of course):

Mike Williams

Golden Tate

Dexter McCluster

Arrelious Benn

Demaryius Thomas

Brandon LaFell

Emmanuel Sanders

Eric Decker

Marty Gilyard

Jorday Shipley

Who do you like and why? Who do you dislike and why? How would you rank them for dynasty purposes?

TIA, Will answer yours.

 

[Jayrod]

:(

bump for more any comments

 

[loose circuits]

where does Victor Cruz fit in?

Not sure any of these guys except for Williams has increased in value (who has shot up). Maybe McCluster who looks to be a part of the offense for sure.

Gilyard is gonna have trouble beating out Amendola in STL. He's gonna be a guy that is hard to hang onto for a year before you see any benefits.

Lafell by my accounts seems to be in a 50/50 battle with Jarrett. For some reason Jarrett seems to be getting mixed reviews. I mean on both sides of the spectrum. A lot of praise and a little bit of negativity. The most criticism I've heard has always been that he's never proven he belongs during games. Although I'm not sure when he got in the games to be given the chance? Hard to say what's gonna happen here, but Lafell seems to at least contending for meaningful looks. Although it will be difficult for the WR2 in a rush heavy offense to have a lot of value anyways...

Golden Tate looks clearly behind Deion Branch, but the good news is Butler looks even farther down the depth chart

Shipley looks pretty good, but it will be tough for him to contribute right away and what type of upside does he have?

Thomas/Decker are both having foot issues, so who knows. Gaffney, Royal, and Lloyd could hold onto their jobs in the short term

By all reports, Sanders looks fantastic. However, Antonio Brown also looks good.

Benn has work to do

Taylor Price, Riley Cooper, Stephen Williams, and Kerry Meier have all looked good but have difficult paths to playing time.

 

[EBF]

Mike Williams and Demaryius Thomas are miles in front of the rest of this crew. We always knew that Williams had a lot of upside. His early ascent to a starting job is extremely encouraging. Thomas was the first WR drafted this year. He has top 10 potential and the early buzz has been good despite his health issues. These guys are definitely in my top 3 with Dez.

After that it's a lot of mediocrity. I would probably rank Tate and LaFell in the next cluster. Both have decent pedigrees and strong early opportunity for playing time. Decker and Sanders have earned decent acclaim, although I have a hard time envisioning either as a difference maker in FF. Benn belongs somewhere in this second tier because of his opportunity/talent combination. Andre Roberts is another guy I would put in this group. He's one of my favorite rookies in this class, but he has struggled thus far in camp. It's not a cause for concern yet.

Beyond that I'm not too optimistic about any of the other rookie receivers. I guess Gilyard has a chance to be relevant eventually. I'm also intrigued by the Victor Cruz story.

 

[Two Deep]

Stephen Williams: Why this guy didn't get drafted is beyond me. He has size, speed, unbelieveable leaping ability and sticky fingers.

 

[Jayrod]

Mike Williams and Demaryius Thomas are miles in front of the rest of this crew. We always knew that Williams had a lot of upside. His early ascent to a starting job is extremely encouraging. Thomas was the first WR drafted this year. He has top 10 potential and the early buzz has been good despite his health issues. These guys are definitely in my top 3 with Dez. After that it's a lot of mediocrity. I would probably rank Tate and LaFell in the next cluster. Both have decent pedigrees and strong early opportunity for playing time. Decker and Sanders have earned decent acclaim, although I have a hard time envisioning either as a difference maker in FF. Benn belongs somewhere in this second tier because of his opportunity/talent combination. Andre Roberts is another guy I would put in this group. He's one of my favorite rookies in this class, but he has struggled thus far in camp. It's not a cause for concern yet. Beyond that I'm not too optimistic about any of the other rookie receivers. I guess Gilyard has a chance to be relevant eventually. I'm also intrigued by the Victor Cruz story.

Where would you put McCluster? In between the top tier and the medocrity or with either group?I personally see him as part of the Mike Williams & Demaryius Thomas tier (which is a ways behind Dez, IMO). He has both talent and opportunity.I've also heard a lot of good things about Shipley, but no one seems ready to give him much credit. He reminds me of a classic overachiever like Hines Ward where it takes about a decade of performance before people finally start ranking him up to where he performs. I'm tempted to rank him above the likes of Tate and LaFell right now.

 

[eraclansing]

According to reports, Andre Roberts has had a terrible camp so far and is fighting for the #4 wideout position. He had 9 targets in his first preseason action and only came away with 2 catches for 14 yards.

 

[Tybeeman]

Mike Williams and Demaryius Thomas are miles in front of the rest of this crew. We always knew that Williams had a lot of upside. His early ascent to a starting job is extremely encouraging. Thomas was the first WR drafted this year. He has top 10 potential and the early buzz has been good despite his health issues. These guys are definitely in my top 3 with Dez.

After that it's a lot of mediocrity. I would probably rank Tate and LaFell in the next cluster. Both have decent pedigrees and strong early opportunity for playing time. Decker and Sanders have earned decent acclaim, although I have a hard time envisioning either as a difference maker in FF. Benn belongs somewhere in this second tier because of his opportunity/talent combination. Andre Roberts is another guy I would put in this group. He's one of my favorite rookies in this class, but he has struggled thus far in camp. It's not a cause for concern yet.

Beyond that I'm not too optimistic about any of the other rookie receivers. I guess Gilyard has a chance to be relevant eventually. I'm also intrigued by the Victor Cruz story.

I found this little tidbit from Cecil Lammey interesting. He's been out at the Broncos practices every day. He says Decker has been looking great when healthy, and that he has the hands, strength and fearlessness over the middle to make an impact this year. He added that Thomas has made some plays in practice as well, but sometimes doesn't finish out his routes properly and needs to develop a better my ball mentality.

 

[renesauz]

If you can afford to wait at least 2 years for a return, Riley Cooper deserves to be in this discussion. Owners in shallower leagues may not be able to afford the roster space that long, but kid's got the goods.

 

[EBF]

Mike Williams and Demaryius Thomas are miles in front of the rest of this crew. We always knew that Williams had a lot of upside. His early ascent to a starting job is extremely encouraging. Thomas was the first WR drafted this year. He has top 10 potential and the early buzz has been good despite his health issues. These guys are definitely in my top 3 with Dez. After that it's a lot of mediocrity. I would probably rank Tate and LaFell in the next cluster. Both have decent pedigrees and strong early opportunity for playing time. Decker and Sanders have earned decent acclaim, although I have a hard time envisioning either as a difference maker in FF. Benn belongs somewhere in this second tier because of his opportunity/talent combination. Andre Roberts is another guy I would put in this group. He's one of my favorite rookies in this class, but he has struggled thus far in camp. It's not a cause for concern yet. Beyond that I'm not too optimistic about any of the other rookie receivers. I guess Gilyard has a chance to be relevant eventually. I'm also intrigued by the Victor Cruz story.

Where would you put McCluster? In between the top tier and the medocrity or with either group?I personally see him as part of the Mike Williams & Demaryius Thomas tier (which is a ways behind Dez, IMO). He has both talent and opportunity.I've also heard a lot of good things about Shipley, but no one seems ready to give him much credit. He reminds me of a classic overachiever like Hines Ward where it takes about a decade of performance before people finally start ranking him up to where he performs. I'm tempted to rank him above the likes of Tate and LaFell right now.

I don't see much FF upside with McCluster. I don't think he will touch the ball enough to become a reliable weekly starter. I guess it's possible in PPR if they decide to force him the ball in the passing game, but the guy is not a conventional WR and will probably struggle to get consistent results on the outside. I rank him below the likes of LaFell and Tate, who are more likely to develop into 1000 yard WRs IMO.As for Shipley, it's a similar story, except it's even worse in his case. He's only the fourth most talented receiver on his own team and he's already on the brink of turning 25 years old. I see very little upside here. He's just a slot receiver whose absolute upside is what Austin Collie did last season. I wouldn't use a roster spot on him except for in very deep leagues.

 

[EBF]

Mike Williams and Demaryius Thomas are miles in front of the rest of this crew. We always knew that Williams had a lot of upside. His early ascent to a starting job is extremely encouraging. Thomas was the first WR drafted this year. He has top 10 potential and the early buzz has been good despite his health issues. These guys are definitely in my top 3 with Dez.

After that it's a lot of mediocrity. I would probably rank Tate and LaFell in the next cluster. Both have decent pedigrees and strong early opportunity for playing time. Decker and Sanders have earned decent acclaim, although I have a hard time envisioning either as a difference maker in FF. Benn belongs somewhere in this second tier because of his opportunity/talent combination. Andre Roberts is another guy I would put in this group. He's one of my favorite rookies in this class, but he has struggled thus far in camp. It's not a cause for concern yet.

Beyond that I'm not too optimistic about any of the other rookie receivers. I guess Gilyard has a chance to be relevant eventually. I'm also intrigued by the Victor Cruz story.

I found this little tidbit from Cecil Lammey interesting. He's been out at the Broncos practices every day. He says Decker has been looking great when healthy, and that he has the hands, strength and fearlessness over the middle to make an impact this year. He added that Thomas has made some plays in practice as well, but sometimes doesn't finish out his routes properly and needs to develop a better my ball mentality.

It shouldn't be a surprise that Decker is looking good immediately. He was always a playmaker in college. The problem with him is that he's not a phenomenal athlete by NFL standards. So while he has good size and coordination for a possession WR role, he's not going to torch a lot of NFL corners for big plays.Thomas is more raw, but with a much higher ceiling.

 

[Go deep]

Mccluster, 5 carries for 25 yards, and 3 catches for 23 yards in the first preseason game. The best part(unless you in return yardage leagues) is that they didnt use Mccluster in the return game. It appears to me the Chiefs have big plans for Mccluster in their offense, maybe a Percy Harvin role, but with a few more carries.

 

[Multiple Scores]

I'll go out on a limb and predict mike Williams has a much better career than dez. In 3 years people will say dez doesn't deserve to sniff mikes athletic cup. Feel free to quote me.

 

[EBF]

I'll go out on a limb and predict mike Williams has a much better career than dez. In 3 years people will say dez doesn't deserve to sniff mikes athletic cup. Feel free to quote me.

Doubt it. Dez is pretty much a better version of the same guy.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

I'll go out on a limb and predict mike Williams has a much better career than dez. In 3 years people will say dez doesn't deserve to sniff mikes athletic cup. Feel free to quote me.

We certainly know he won't carry it

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

I'll go out on a limb and predict mike Williams has a much better career than dez. In 3 years people will say dez doesn't deserve to sniff mikes athletic cup. Feel free to quote me.

Thats a very surprising and fresh take from you...

 

[Go deep]

I'll go out on a limb and predict mike Williams has a much better career than dez. In 3 years people will say dez doesn't deserve to sniff mikes athletic cup. Feel free to quote me.

Doubt it. Dez is pretty much a better version of the same guy.

Maybe physically, but physical attributes are a very small part of the big picture. This isnt to say i agree that Willimas will be better than Bryant, but no two players are very similar at all.

 

[EBF]

I'll go out on a limb and predict mike Williams has a much better career than dez. In 3 years people will say dez doesn't deserve to sniff mikes athletic cup. Feel free to quote me.

Doubt it. Dez is pretty much a better version of the same guy.

Maybe physically, but physical attributes are a very small part of the big picture. This isnt to say i agree that Willimas will be better than Bryant, but no two players are very similar at all.

Very small? No, they're a very big part of the big picture. The reason why guys like Moss and TO are dominant has a lot to do with physical attributes.Football skills are also important, but I don't see any reason to believe that Dez is lacking in that department. The early buzz out of Cowboys camp was phenomenal. Put him on the Bucs and he would be their #1 WR just like Williams.

 

[SammyJankis]

Stephen Williams: Why this guy didn't get drafted is beyond me. He has size, speed, unbelieveable leaping ability and sticky fingers.

Cards absolutely love this guy. 6'5", and has drawn comparisons to Randy Moss. (Not in talent level, but in style, and they're both tall and lanky.) Williams looked good in the preseason game and drew a long PI call that won't show in the box score.Keep in mind though there is a big gap between "undrafted rookie looking good" and becoming a fantasy force. He's got talent, and has been a nice surprise. So I think he stands a good chance to make the team, but wouldn't expect him to make any kind of FF impact. Not for a couple of years anyway.Roberts has been awful. I've been calling him "skillet hands". One of my buddies was reminding me how good he looked in the Senior Bowl, but yeah this guy hasn't been getting it done. He had a number of drops in the preseason game and an interception was the result of a pass bouncing off his hands. I'd guess he'll make the team based on where we took him in the draft (at the expense of Onrea Jones) but I'm not high on the guy.

 

[SammyJankis]

BTW, Darren Urban (of the AZ Republic) tweeted that Williams is running with the 1s at camp with Fitz sitting out, which would suggest he's the WR4 behind Fitz, Breaston and Doucet.

 

[SammyJankis]

OK. One more nugget: Here's Urbans write-up on Williams: Link

In a nutshell: 6'5", runs under a 4.5 40". Set all kinds of records at Toledo. Doesn't know why he wasn't drafted. Has been straight up killing it at minicamp.

Cards are on national TV for some preseason MNF this week, so if you have any interest in this guy, you'll have an opportunity for a look-see.

 

[Go deep]

I'll go out on a limb and predict mike Williams has a much better career than dez. In 3 years people will say dez doesn't deserve to sniff mikes athletic cup. Feel free to quote me.

Doubt it. Dez is pretty much a better version of the same guy.

Maybe physically, but physical attributes are a very small part of the big picture. This isnt to say i agree that Willimas will be better than Bryant, but no two players are very similar at all.

Very small? No, they're a very big part of the big picture. The reason why guys like Moss and TO are dominant has a lot to do with physical attributes.Football skills are also important, but I don't see any reason to believe that Dez is lacking in that department. The early buzz out of Cowboys camp was phenomenal. Put him on the Bucs and he would be their #1 WR just like Williams.

I think you misundertood. Obviously physical attributes go a long way in making an NFL player/star. But to say one player is a better version of the same guy because they are similar phyisically is not taking everything into consideration. 90% of what makes any athlete is mental, no matter what sport you are talking about. Sure, if Wayne Gretzky was 6' 3" 230 lbs, and was a faster skater with a harder slapshot, he would have been a better hockey player. But there was something that made an otherwise average physical talent the best player ever to play the game.Point being, just because Bryant and Williams are physicvally similar doesnt mean that Williams will not end up being the better player based on some attribute(s) that you cant measure.

 

[EBF]

I think you misundertood. Obviously physical attributes go a long way in making an NFL player/star. But to say one player is a better version of the same guy because they are similar phyisically is not taking everything into consideration.

This is what I said.

Doubt it. Dez is pretty much a better version of the same guy.

I'm not sure how you concluded that I wasn't "taking everything into consideration." That's not the case. I think Dez is a better physical specimen AND better at most of the intangible WR skills. That's why I made the initial comment. I never said or implied that it was solely because Dez has better physical ability, so I don't know why you're trying to argue against a statement that I never made.

 

[EBF]

Keep in mind though there is a big gap between "undrafted rookie looking good" and becoming a fantasy force. He's got talent, and has been a nice surprise. So I think he stands a good chance to make the team, but wouldn't expect him to make any kind of FF impact. Not for a couple of years anyway.

I think this is the key point. Guys like Williams and Cruz still have a long way to go before they can be considered realistic breakout candidates. The early results are encouraging though and are definitely enough justification to move these two players from irrelevant to relevant. Going into camp both players would've been considered longshots to make the team. Now that it looks like they'll make a roster, the question is whether or not they'll ever make an impact. That remains to be seen. As for Roberts, the bad press about his preseason has been discouraging. It's especially surprising when you consider that he was a prolific college WR not known to suffer from the dropsies. At this early juncture I would chalk it up to nerves and expect his consistency to improve once he settles into the NFL environment. If it continues next season then there's a real problem.

 

[Go deep]

I think you misundertood. Obviously physical attributes go a long way in making an NFL player/star. But to say one player is a better version of the same guy because they are similar phyisically is not taking everything into consideration.

This is what I said.

Doubt it. Dez is pretty much a better version of the same guy.

I'm not sure how you concluded that I wasn't "taking everything into consideration." That's not the case. I think Dez is a better physical specimen AND better at most of the intangible WR skills. That's why I made the initial comment. I never said or implied that it was solely because Dez has better physical ability, so I don't know why you're trying to argue against a statement that I never made.

I assumed you were basing the comparison on physical skills, because im not sure how you could know about the other intangible skills. Especially considering NFL teams miss that stuff all the time, and they know far more about these player than you or i could ever know, especially the intangibles.I guess my argumant is no two players are alike, there are so many unmeasurable things that go into a player, it is impossible to compare, especially before they have played a down iin the NFL.

 

[Multiple Scores]

I think you misundertood. Obviously physical attributes go a long way in making an NFL player/star. But to say one player is a better version of the same guy because they are similar phyisically is not taking everything into consideration.

This is what I said.

Doubt it. Dez is pretty much a better version of the same guy.

I'm not sure how you concluded that I wasn't "taking everything into consideration." That's not the case. I think Dez is a better physical specimen AND better at most of the intangible WR skills. That's why I made the initial comment. I never said or implied that it was solely because Dez has better physical ability, so I don't know why you're trying to argue against a statement that I never made.

I assumed you were basing the comparison on physical skills, because im not sure how you could know about the other intangible skills. Especially considering NFL teams miss that stuff all the time, and they know far more about these player than you or i could ever know, especially the intangibles.I guess my argumant is no two players are alike, there are so many unmeasurable things that go into a player, it is impossible to compare, especially before they have played a down iin the NFL.