Rosey says Walker WILL NOT be in camp without (1 Viewer)

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The Packers are not a cheap outfit. They always have a roster right at the salary cap. The Packers have a history of renegotiating with players in the final year of their contract and richly rewarding them if they have been productive. Just look at the contracts for Favre, Ferguson, Green, Clifton, Tauscher.Walker and Rosenfeces are coming up against one inescapable fact. The Packers do not have any cap space. You can't bargain for what the other side does not have. This is the year they have to redo Green's and Frank's contracts. Next year, one year before his contract expires, was to be Walker's year. Signing Walker now would mean the loss of Grady Jackson, Franks, and likely Green. Walker is not worth blowing up the salary cap and the loss of those players. Though his talent says he has leverage, the objective facts say otherwise.Too bad Walker does not understand this fact. Certainly Rosenfeces will not explain it to him. He is being lead down a Primerose path by satan himself. Driver, Murphy, Ferguson, and the others will be sufficient weapons for Favre.Ultimately Walker will get branded as a malcontent. When, and if, at the end of his contract he gets traded or resigned this will adversely effect his monetary status. Teams are learning from the New England model that cap restraint is the road to success and that malcontents are rarely worth having.I love Walker's skills. I love the Packers and would dearly love to see Favre have a full quiver of arrows in his last season or two. That said I do not want to see them mortgage the future by setting bad precedent here. I hope they let him sit. I hope they go at him for his bonus. I hope they go to the league and seek cap relief next year for Walker's loss and use that money for Green and Franks.Screw this constant inane dance with the devil. BTW Driver, Ferguson and Murphy have all had great minicamps. Driver is in his prime. Ferguson has finally shown improvement and has had his eyes fixed which has him seeing and catching everything in sight. And Murphy is an exciting and explosive down field threat that is said to be way ahead of the learning curve experienced by both Walker and Ferguson. I sincerely hope this keeps up, that the receiving corps stays injury free, and Walker finds himself begging next year.

 

[Franknbeans]

There is some precedent... for Top receivers to play out their rookie contracts. (not taking into consideration signing bonuses but Javon got one of those too)Harrison's Contract1996 510,000.00 1997 637,500.00 1998 765,000.00 1999 892,500.00 2000 440,000.00 2001 500,000.00 2002 525,000.00 2003 4,500,000.00 2004 1,309,000.00 2005 1,000,000.00 2006 2,000,000.00 Moss's Contract1998 230,000.00 1999 250,000.00 2000 358,000.00 2001 500,000.00 2002 525,000.00 2003 5,000,000.00 2004 5,750,000.00 2005 665,000.00 2006 8,250,000.00 2007 9,750,000.00 2008 11,250,000.00 Javon Walker needs to stop listening to Rosenhaus and show up. If Rosenhaus is so worried about injury, have him take out an insurance policy on him. He'll get paid if he performs again like he did last year. Plain and simple.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Oh, and LOL at Rosenfeces pathetic attempts to drag Favre into a dialoge. This is a man with no leverage desperately seeking any dialoge possible as both Philly and Green Bay ignore him for the unprincipled cur he is. Favre is wise to condem the holdout but not to engage Satan in dialoge.The man's ego has written checks he cannot cash. He started believing his own press and when his clients go down or return with their tails between their legs his game is up. He will have to try to recoup his reputation next year with even more outrageous demands which will again not be meet and then the jig is up.The Emperor has no cloths and a small penis. When his clients see this they will jump ship faster than Cuban boat people at the sight sight of Miami beach.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

As a Viking fan, why not offer Williamson for Walker?Even though they don't like trading in the division, the Pack will have a WR and the Vikings have the money to redo the deal. Sounds perfect to me!!

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Starr supports Favre's stance on Walker. In Green Bay there is no more hallowed duo now that Lombardi and Nitschke are dead and gone. Starr backs Favre's stand on Walker's holdout Posted: July 20, 2005SportsDay Bob WolfleyE-MAIL | ARCHIVE Bart Starr has nothing but admiration for Green Bay Packers quarterback Brett Favre's decision to publicly criticize his teammate Javon Walker, who has decided to hold out for a new contract.The Pro Football Hall of Fame quarterback said the future Hall of Fame quarterback was exercising his role as a leader on the team.Starr said it is entirely appropriate for Favre to criticize the contract issues of another player since Favre is considering the needs of the team.Starr, 71, made his comments during a telephone interview from the Los Angeles Coliseum, where he was taking part in the taping of a television commercial produced by the National Football League to promote Super Bowl XL.Last week and again this week at the U.S. Bank Championship, where he was competing in the pro-am, Favre repeated his criticism of Walker and Walker's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, whose strategy is to have Walker hold out to get a new contract with the Packers. Walker, who is scheduled to make $515,000 this season, has two years left on a five-year contract he signed when he came into the league in 2001. Walker wants the Packers to give him more money because of the terrific season he had last year, when he was the team's leading receiver and was chosen to play in the Pro Bowl.Favre has not wavered in his opinion about the issue since he expressed it earlier this summer.He has said repeatedly holding out is the wrong approach for Walker in trying to get a better contract."I have had much respect for Brett for many, many years because of the way he has led the team," Starr said. "Quite frankly, it's one of the things that's lacking today. You don't have someone who is a leader or assuming a leadership role. I'm certain he feels it's appropriate. Because of my respect and admiration for him, I would endorse what he has done."Starr said he was "not sure" whether there was an unwritten rule in NFL locker rooms these days that says teammates don't criticize other teammates' business dealings."I think there are different issues for every situation," Starr said. "Different facts and numbers and different bits of information. I don't know how to answer that. What I'm saying is I believe when you have the type of strong leadership which Brett exhibits, it's almost an obligation for him to do be able to do that, in fact to do that. That's what it should be about. I admire him for his stance," Starr said.Starr was asked about the risk Favre was taking by criticizing Walker.What if Favre winds up alienating his leading receiver or other players on the team?"Well, they'll cross that bridge when they come to it," Starr said. "In the meantime, what's more important is the team. That's exactly where Brett is placing the priority."Starr said he was dismayed that so much attention was given to individual needs and not enough attention given to team needs."The reason I admire this so much, Brett doing this, is that one of the biggest disappointments I personally have is there isn't enough emphasis on team in many cases today," Starr said. "There are too many I's and me's on top of that pyramid. There is no place for that. It's team. Team is the foundation."

 

[Chase Stuart]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

This is such an ignorant statement, especially coming from someone who supposedly knows the NFL and how it works. He made how many millions already? His rookie contract which he still has 2 years left, was for $7.5 Million. The first 2 years he did nothing and got paid big bucks. Last year he had an awesome year. So he's to get $500+k this year, $600+k next year. the first 3 years he probably made near $1 Million total. Lets do the math here: $7.5 Million contract around 1-2Million for the 5yrs for his yearly salary combined. That leave's a signing bonus of close to or over $5 Million. All that for maybe 2-3 good years. Only ONE and a half so far. He got all of his cash upfront, before he even stepped on the field.

So tell me again why he's being UNDERpaid????

He's Not - Let him sit

Javon Walker was the 20th pick in the 2002 draft. He has 153/2417/22 in his career.Ashley Lelie was the 19th pick in the 2002 draft. He has 126/2237/11 in his career.

Donte Stallworth was the 13th pick in the 2002 draft. He's got 125/1846/16.

David Terrell was the 8th pick in the 2001 draft; Koren Robinson the 9th pick; Rod Gardner the 15th pick; Santana Moss the 16th pick; Freddie Mitchell the 25th pick and Reggie Wayne the 30th pick....only Wayne is still on his remaining team.

In the 03 draft, Bryant Johnson was the 17th pick...I don't think he's turning into Javon Walker anytime soon. (Roy Williams and Andre Johnson of course were in this draft, but that's not much of a comparison).

There's no way to ague that Javon Walker has greatly surpassed expectations. With the possible exception of Reggie Wayne, he's been the best WR drafted over this span. The Packers definitely got a steal with the 20th pick. Like I said, I don't know/think he's worth 5M a year....but I know he's worth more than what he's currently being paid. You're paid based on future expectations, and Walker's got one of the most promising futures in the NFL.

 

[faede]

A couple of things.- from the innuendo spouted by Walker and Rosenhaus during this fiasco, the money they are looking for is big. We're talking top 5 receivers in the league big. I can pull up the articles if you want, but, just trust me. Javon Walker is looking for big bucks.- the packers have a lot invested in Walker. They gave him a larger signing bonus to get him signed for more years. I remember the negotiations for that rookie contract. If Walker didn't take the extra bucks, he'd have been out of his contract after this season. But he did.- Ted Thompson. This guy is not going to budge. He's a new GM. He's doing things his way and make no mistake, he's a guy who's well prepared. I believe he's "ok" with this. He'll use this as a precedent for all further GM moves. He has very little blame if the 2005 Packer season goes up in smoke. He'll just blame Mike Sherman, let him walk after this season and bring in his own guy. I think it's more important to him to establish precedent for dealing with contract issues then it is to be successful in 2005.- Other WR's. Again. Make no mistake, the Packers are stocked at WR. Driver is signed long term. Ferguson just signed an extension last season. Antonio Chatman was supposed to be the odd man out, but the little guy just keeps improving and impressing in camps. They brought in Terrance Murphy, who's been, by far, the rave of minicamps and offseason hype. And as well, they feel they got a downright steal in Craig Bragg from UCLA in the 6th. The two kids they drafted have PR/KR skills and the plan was to free up Robert Ferguson for WR duties. He's been injured a lot because he played on nearly all special teams functions. If there is a guy with more work ethic and heart the Robert Ferguson, I don't know of them.- Cap space. The packers DO have cap space to spare yet. Last I looked they had over 4 mil of cap space available. Their rookies won't cost too much to sign (the 53 man rule is still in effect until the final cut down day of training camp). They can also create some cap room with extensions to Bubba Franks and Ahman Green. And again, last I heard contract negotiations were forthcoming with franks (who, by the way, from what I have read won't be a camp holdout, he just didn't sign his tender in hopes of finding a long term deal and thus could not attend minicamps).- Then there's the Favre factor. He just doesn't need all-pro wide receivers. Driver and a underachieving Walker were the guys in 2003, they did fine. Hell, Bill 'freaking' Schroeder was the top receiver for the Packers in '00 and '01. Favre still had 3800 and 3900 yards passing.What I think from being a Packer homer, following the situation? I think they won't, nor should they, budge on Javon Walker. Thompson will set a precedent to make it perfectly clear how he will deal with this situation throughout his tenure. And the Packers WR corps are the deepest they've been in as long as I can remember as a packer fan.Fantasy wise, it'll all depend on Walker's resolve. If he's resolved, he'll stay out a long time. Maybe the entire season. If he's just posturing, he'll be back, but then you never know if a mysterious hamstring injury will show up the week he ends his holdout.Ferguson could have a big year and watch for Terrance Murphy. The coaching staff cannot say enough good things about him.As for Chase's comments. You have to remember that just because Javon Walker's base salary is 500k, doesn't mean a lot. His signing bonus was large. His cap value for this year is about 1.4million bucks. People just seem to gloss over the fact that signing bonus is not just free money, it's a bonus up front for future services. Javon Walker is getting 500k of salary this year, but another 870k of salary has already been paide to him up front.Giving him more money for holding out would be, by far, the least intelligent move.It's been said before and will be said again. The packers paid Walker a lot of money to be fairly unproductive in his first 2 seasons... and Walker accepted a bigger check at day 1 to be locked into this contract a little longer.Javon Walker will make plenty of money when his next contract is inked. He's got to live with the choice he made during his last one. And the Packers would be absolute fools if they didn't insist on that.

 

[Sabertooth]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

Yeah, well he was overpaid every year up until last season too. He's the one who signed for the extra year to get the bigger initial signing bonus. Nobody put a gun to his head back then to do that either.

 

[Chase Stuart]

This would be a travesty to my team. I really am counting on Walker this year as I was last year too. Please Walker and the Packers meet in the middle and make everyone happy. I know Favre has been good in the past with mediocre WR's but for GB to have any hope this year of making a playoff run they really need Walker in the mix. Their Defense is brutal and there only hope is scoring more points then the other teams they face and w/o Walker I am afraid they are in big trouble.

Meet in the middle? What kind of precedent would that set for others?The Packers have no cap room to meet his demands and they made this known before. After last year, I was a fan of Walker but when athletes pull stuff like this, its such a deterrent.

Before you can ask for more money, prove that you can continue putting up 2004 numbers. He's no better than McCardell pulling his crap. I applaud Favre for calling him out.

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

I don't quite understand your point. He's a third year player on his rookie contract, hence the 49th WR.

I think it's in the best interest of Green Bay management to reward players that grossly overplay their contracts. It's a bad precedent to avoid giving that incentive IMO.

It's a far worse precedent to start allowing re-negotiations with players who have two years left on their deals. That will open up a Pandora's box that would have devastating results.And I'd be far more inclined to side with Walker if he hadn't agreed to take more money up front as part of his rookie contract. Again, he can't have it both ways.

It doesn't have to be a bad precedent, and I think most teams would be happy if their draft picks turn out to have a top 5 season at the position (which Walker had last year). You could argue it's a worse precedent to not reward greatness.I'm not saying Walker should get a T.O. contract, but a 1 or 2M raise might have made this situation a whole lot easier.

Chase you really don't get it do you?Wow have I over-rated your knowledge of how the NFL works.

Care to explain here? Do you think the Packers have already offered a "bump" in his contract and Walker's turned it down? Do you think that Walker doesn't deserve a bonus? Do you think that no players deserve a bonus? Do you think it's good to have holdouts on the team?

 

[Chase Stuart]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

Yeah, well he was overpaid every year up until last season too. He's the one who signed for the extra year to get the bigger initial signing bonus. Nobody put a gun to his head back then to do that either.

@ overpaid every year.Does every year = rookie year?

He was the 94th best fantasy WR his rookie year, the 21st best in 2003 and the 2nd best last year. I hardly think you're underpaid making the league minimum and catching 9 TDs (2003).

 

[Sabertooth]

A couple of things.

- from the innuendo spouted by Walker and Rosenhaus during this fiasco, the money they are looking for is big. We're talking top 5 receivers in the league big. I can pull up the articles if you want, but, just trust me. Javon Walker is looking for big bucks.

- the packers have a lot invested in Walker. They gave him a larger signing bonus to get him signed for more years. I remember the negotiations for that rookie contract. If Walker didn't take the extra bucks, he'd have been out of his contract after this season. But he did.

- Ted Thompson. This guy is not going to budge. He's a new GM. He's doing things his way and make no mistake, he's a guy who's well prepared. I believe he's "ok" with this. He'll use this as a precedent for all further GM moves. He has very little blame if the 2005 Packer season goes up in smoke. He'll just blame Mike Sherman, let him walk after this season and bring in his own guy. I think it's more important to him to establish precedent for dealing with contract issues then it is to be successful in 2005.

- Other WR's. Again. Make no mistake, the Packers are stocked at WR. Driver is signed long term. Ferguson just signed an extension last season. Antonio Chatman was supposed to be the odd man out, but the little guy just keeps improving and impressing in camps. They brought in Terrance Murphy, who's been, by far, the rave of minicamps and offseason hype. And as well, they feel they got a downright steal in Craig Bragg from UCLA in the 6th. The two kids they drafted have PR/KR skills and the plan was to free up Robert Ferguson for WR duties. He's been injured a lot because he played on nearly all special teams functions. If there is a guy with more work ethic and heart the Robert Ferguson, I don't know of them.

- Cap space. The packers DO have cap space to spare yet. Last I looked they had over 4 mil of cap space available. Their rookies won't cost too much to sign (the 53 man rule is still in effect until the final cut down day of training camp). They can also create some cap room with extensions to Bubba Franks and Ahman Green. And again, last I heard contract negotiations were forthcoming with franks (who, by the way, from what I have read won't be a camp holdout, he just didn't sign his tender in hopes of finding a long term deal and thus could not attend minicamps).

- Then there's the Favre factor. He just doesn't need all-pro wide receivers. Driver and a underachieving Walker were the guys in 2003, they did fine. Hell, Bill 'freaking' Schroeder was the top receiver for the Packers in '00 and '01. Favre still had 3800 and 3900 yards passing.

What I think from being a Packer homer, following the situation? I think they won't, nor should they, budge on Javon Walker. Thompson will set a precedent to make it perfectly clear how he will deal with this situation throughout his tenure. And the Packers WR corps are the deepest they've been in as long as I can remember as a packer fan.

Fantasy wise, it'll all depend on Walker's resolve. If he's resolved, he'll stay out a long time. Maybe the entire season. If he's just posturing, he'll be back, but then you never know if a mysterious hamstring injury will show up the week he ends his holdout.

Ferguson could have a big year and watch for Terrance Murphy. The coaching staff cannot say enough good things about him.

As for Chase's comments. You have to remember that just because Javon Walker's base salary is 500k, doesn't mean a lot. His signing bonus was large. His cap value for this year is about 1.4million bucks. People just seem to gloss over the fact that signing bonus is not just free money, it's a bonus up front for future services. Javon Walker is getting 500k of salary this year, but another 870k of salary has already been paide to him up front.

Giving him more money for holding out would be, by far, the least intelligent move.

It's been said before and will be said again. The packers paid Walker a lot of money to be fairly unproductive in his first 2 seasons... and Walker accepted a bigger check at day 1 to be locked into this contract a little longer.

Javon Walker will make plenty of money when his next contract is inked. He's got to live with the choice he made during his last one. And the Packers would be absolute fools if they didn't insist on that.

 

[faede]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

Yeah, well he was overpaid every year up until last season too. He's the one who signed for the extra year to get the bigger initial signing bonus. Nobody put a gun to his head back then to do that either.

@ overpaid every year.Does every year = rookie year?

He was the 94th best fantasy WR his rookie year, the 21st best in 2003 and the 2nd best last year. I hardly think you're underpaid making the league minimum and catching 9 TDs (2003).

But again.You completely ignore signing bonus and roster bonus. Most players "make the league minimum" in the first year of a new contract. But their cap value is much much higher because of the money they got up front.

Javon Walker had a base salary of 390k, yes. But he also got another 380k of LTBE bonus and of course, the big signing bonus.

Walker's cap value for '04 was 1.625 mil.

In '03 it was 1.2million.

 

[Zaphod]

Walker is not bigger than the team and the Packers and Favre are making this known.  They have said they will contnue on without him as they should.  I hope the Packers do not give in one iota.

eff Walker and Rosenscum.

I heard this morning and I hope it's true, that the Packers sent Rosenscum a letter saying they won't renegotiate and won't let them seek a trade. I hope they don't budge one effing inch here.

:finger: to Walker and Rosenscum

Mike and Mike had Sal Palantonio on this morning and his thoughts on what he was hearing around the league was that the Packers were every bit as set as the Eagles in their stance of not giving in to the hold out. I was a bit surprised to hear that because all you ever really hear is the TO situation and how the Eagles will never budge. But Sal was pretty definitive in his opinion that the Packers are entrenched in their position and that Walker has some tough decisions ahead of him.

 

[Jason Wood]

Again, there is a TON of precedent here...it's not an exception but the norm for NFL teams to redo deals like this.

No, Jason, there isn't a ton of precedent here. Not with multiple years left on the contract, especially a rookie contract.You see well heeled vets renegotiate before the last year of their contract, but that's usually to get a long term back loaded contract with a hefty signing bonus to free up cap space for the team. That helps both parties - the older player knows that they most likely won't be with the team in the later years when the backloaded huge salary numbers kick in - but they trade that off for a big signing bonus up front. The team gets more space under the cap. It's kind of a wink-wink win-win for both sides.

Most GMs won't get into renegotiating rookie contracts that early mostly because of the salary cap - the players want much bigger contracts than originally signed, which busts the team's cap number. If renegotiations of a rookie contract take place, it is predominantly done in their last year - where the team can make cap adjustments for the future.

And many GMs stand very firm with this rule on rookie contracts. They know the consequences to their team and ultimately the league if they don't.

Chad Johnson...2 years into his rookie deal signs a new extension with a $7 million signing bonusDonovan McNabb...3 years into his rookie contract, signs a 14-year extension with a $13.5 million signing bonus

Michael Vick...3 years into his rookie contract, signs an extension with $7.5 million in upfront bonus money

Santana Moss...the Redskins ripped up his deal and gave him a new $31 million deal including $11 million in guarantees the next two seasons

And those were just the first I thought of...and it's happening more frequently and will continue to happen because players realize they need to get their guaranteed money NOW before something happens that lowers their perceived value.

 

[Chase Stuart]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

Yeah, well he was overpaid every year up until last season too. He's the one who signed for the extra year to get the bigger initial signing bonus. Nobody put a gun to his head back then to do that either.

@ overpaid every year.Does every year = rookie year?

He was the 94th best fantasy WR his rookie year, the 21st best in 2003 and the 2nd best last year. I hardly think you're underpaid making the league minimum and catching 9 TDs (2003).

But again.You completely ignore signing bonus and roster bonus. Most players "make the league minimum" in the first year of a new contract. But their cap value is much much higher because of the money they got up front.

Javon Walker had a base salary of 390k, yes. But he also got another 380k of LTBE bonus and of course, the big signing bonus.

Walker's cap value for '04 was 1.625 mil.

In '03 it was 1.2million.

I haven't been ignoring the signing bonus...with the bonus included, Walker still outperformed his contract.Outperforming your contract is a good thing -- teams need this if they want to be successful. Walker isn't owed a huge contract that would make him a top 5 WR for the next five years....that's the Packers decision. But I think it's a PR blunder and a bad sign for incoming free agents to let a player that has rewarded GB with excellent play be this unhappy. I know if I was a mid level free agent, I'd have to think twice about going to Green Bay. If I play really well, they're going to take longer than some teams to reward me.

 

[Jason Wood]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

Yeah, well he was overpaid every year up until last season too. He's the one who signed for the extra year to get the bigger initial signing bonus. Nobody put a gun to his head back then to do that either.

@ overpaid every year.Does every year = rookie year?

He was the 94th best fantasy WR his rookie year, the 21st best in 2003 and the 2nd best last year. I hardly think you're underpaid making the league minimum and catching 9 TDs (2003).

But again.You completely ignore signing bonus and roster bonus. Most players "make the league minimum" in the first year of a new contract. But their cap value is much much higher because of the money they got up front.

Javon Walker had a base salary of 390k, yes. But he also got another 380k of LTBE bonus and of course, the big signing bonus.

Walker's cap value for '04 was 1.625 mil.

In '03 it was 1.2million.

No, Chase isn't forgetting his signing bonus.http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...tion.aspx?pos=4

Walker was barely in the top 50 of wideouts in terms of their cap value last year...those are the facts.

 

[Sabertooth]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

Yeah, well he was overpaid every year up until last season too. He's the one who signed for the extra year to get the bigger initial signing bonus. Nobody put a gun to his head back then to do that either.

@ overpaid every year.Does every year = rookie year?

He was the 94th best fantasy WR his rookie year, the 21st best in 2003 and the 2nd best last year. I hardly think you're underpaid making the league minimum and catching 9 TDs (2003).

I never said he was underpaid in 2003. So over the first two years he averaged the 57th best paid wideout in the league. Whoopty doo. He was paid better than that, I don't have the stats for what all wideouts we paid that year but with his bonus and salary, I'd bet a paycheck that he didn't perform commisurate with his compensation.Did he have a breakout year last year? Of course he did. But so did Antonio Gates. Heck Gates makes less and did more last year setting the record for TE touchdowns. But he's not holding out is he?

Plus if I recall, Javon fumbled the Indy game away last season. Take away that Indy game (because although he did well, he lost the game for the Packers when he lost the weak fumble) and Javon has stats very close to Donald Driver and Rod Smith. Are they holding out too?

 

[Jason Wood]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

Yeah, well he was overpaid every year up until last season too. He's the one who signed for the extra year to get the bigger initial signing bonus. Nobody put a gun to his head back then to do that either.

@ overpaid every year.Does every year = rookie year?

He was the 94th best fantasy WR his rookie year, the 21st best in 2003 and the 2nd best last year. I hardly think you're underpaid making the league minimum and catching 9 TDs (2003).

I never said he was underpaid in 2003. So over the first two years he averaged the 57th best paid wideout in the league. Whoopty doo. He was paid better than that, I don't have the stats for what all wideouts we paid that year but with his bonus and salary, I'd bet a paycheck that he didn't perform commisurate with his compensation.Did he have a breakout year last year? Of course he did. But so did Antonio Gates. Heck Gates makes less and did more last year setting the record for TE touchdowns. But he's not holding out is he?

Plus if I recall, Javon fumbled the Indy game away last season. Take away that Indy game (because although he did well, he lost the game for the Packers when he lost the weak fumble) and Javon has stats very close to Donald Driver and Rod Smith. Are they holding out too?

You might want to click on the link I just posted above...he MORE than outperformed his 2004 salary cap figure, by a MILE.

 

[packersfan]

Once again, Walker took a LARGER signing bonus up front in exchange for more years on his rookie contract. This is what Walker asked for and now he's suddenly decided (at Rosenhaus' whim) that he doesn't want it anymore. Well that's too damn bad. Walker wanted the money early and the Packers obliged. They did right by him. Now he wants to gouge them out of more money later. Again, he's trying to get his cake and eat it too and the Packers are (correctly) telling him that's not the way it works.Walker has zero leverage here and anyone who thinks he does is seriously fooling themselves. As I and others have posted numerous times in this thread and in all other Walker threads, the Packers have proven they are more than willing to take care of their talented young players in the final year of their deal. What's more (and this is the point Walker really needs to pay attention to) Favre has worked with far lesser talents and done very well. He turned Freeman into a Pro Bowl WR and turned Robert Brooks into a legit go-to WR for a time and Lord knows he made Bill Schroeder look a helluva lot better than he really was (just ask the Lions about that). The Packers obviously are better with Walker, but Favre isn't Michael Vick -- he's proven he can excel with lesser talented WRs (and Driver is hardly lesser talented; Ferguson is a former high draft pick and the Packers absolutely love Murphy) so if Walker and Rosenhaus are sitting there believing the Packers absolutely need Walker to make their playoff run, they're delusional. The Packers will go on without him and as Favre's history strongly indicates, the passing game will continue to thrive.If there's a position on the Green Bay Packers that has the least amount of leverage, it's the WR position. That's the one spot where the Packers have clearly thrived without having much in the way of top-line talent during Favre's career. History (not to mention common sense) is really working against Javon Walker and Drew Rosenhaus. Too bad they can't see it.

 

[Sabertooth]

I haven't been ignoring the signing bonus...with the bonus included, Walker still outperformed his contract.

Outperforming your contract is a good thing -- teams need this if they want to be successful. Walker isn't owed a huge contract that would make him a top 5 WR for the next five years....that's the Packers decision. But I think it's a PR blunder and a bad sign for incoming free agents to let a player that has rewarded GB with excellent play be this unhappy. I know if I was a mid level free agent, I'd have to think twice about going to Green Bay. If I play really well, they're going to take longer than some teams to reward me.

Free agents like who? Arturo Freeman and Earl Little. In case you haven't noticed, the Packers like to sign their own. The last big Free Agent they got was Joe Johnson (boy that worked out for them huh?) and I don't see them changing this philosophy any time soon with Green coming up for Free Agency next year.

 

[Jason Wood]

Once again, Walker took a LARGER signing bonus up front in exchange for more years on his rookie contract. This is what Walker asked for and now he's suddenly decided (at Rosenhaus' whim) that he doesn't want it anymore. Well that's too damn bad. Walker wanted the money early and the Packers obliged. They did right by him. Now he wants to gouge them out of more money later. Again, he's trying to get his cake and eat it too and the Packers are (correctly) telling him that's not the way it works.

Walker has zero leverage here and anyone who thinks he does is seriously fooling themselves. As I and others have posted numerous times in this thread and in all other Walker threads, the Packers have proven they are more than willing to take care of their talented young players in the final year of their deal. What's more (and this is the point Walker really needs to pay attention to) Favre has worked with far lesser talents and done very well. He turned Freeman into a Pro Bowl WR and turned Robert Brooks into a legit go-to WR for a time and Lord knows he made Bill Schroeder look a helluva lot better than he really was (just ask the Lions about that). The Packers obviously are better with Walker, but Favre isn't Michael Vick -- he's proven he can excel with lesser talented WRs (and Driver is hardly lesser talented; Ferguson is a former high draft pick and the Packers absolutely love Murphy) so if Walker and Rosenhaus are sitting there believing the Packers absolutely need Walker to make their playoff run, they're delusional. The Packers will go on without him and as Favre's history strongly indicates, the passing game will continue to thrive.

If there's a position on the Green Bay Packers that has the least amount of leverage, it's the WR position. That's the one spot where the Packers have clearly thrived without having much in the way of top-line talent during Favre's career. History (not to mention common sense) is really working against Javon Walker and Drew Rosenhaus. Too bad they can't see it.

I think it has a lot less to do with what Favre can do with virtually any receiver and the fact that Thompson has no reason to leverage the future to win now with Favre nearing the end of things and Sherman playing out his contract.

 

[ookook]

Just remember, this guy got a 9 on the wonderlic.

 

[Sabertooth]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

Yeah, well he was overpaid every year up until last season too. He's the one who signed for the extra year to get the bigger initial signing bonus. Nobody put a gun to his head back then to do that either.

@ overpaid every year.Does every year = rookie year?

He was the 94th best fantasy WR his rookie year, the 21st best in 2003 and the 2nd best last year. I hardly think you're underpaid making the league minimum and catching 9 TDs (2003).

I never said he was underpaid in 2003. So over the first two years he averaged the 57th best paid wideout in the league. Whoopty doo. He was paid better than that, I don't have the stats for what all wideouts we paid that year but with his bonus and salary, I'd bet a paycheck that he didn't perform commisurate with his compensation.Did he have a breakout year last year? Of course he did. But so did Antonio Gates. Heck Gates makes less and did more last year setting the record for TE touchdowns. But he's not holding out is he?

Plus if I recall, Javon fumbled the Indy game away last season. Take away that Indy game (because although he did well, he lost the game for the Packers when he lost the weak fumble) and Javon has stats very close to Donald Driver and Rod Smith. Are they holding out too?

You might want to click on the link I just posted above...he MORE than outperformed his 2004 salary cap figure, by a MILE.

Clicked on it. I agree he was underpaid last season. It's just too damn bad he signed for 5 years instead of 4. That's the brakes man. It just is. They aren't going to budge on it. Also, if he holds out, I've heard his contract won't progress a year so he will have 2 years remaining next season too if he doesn't play.

This couple with the fact that the Packers are probably not in a position to make a serious title run this season, means he has zero leverage. Plus with a new GM not wanting to set a bad precedent, he's tapped out. He's only hurting himself at this point at the behest of Rosenhaus.

 

[Mario Kart]

Wood, you are surprising me here a bit. You are an Eagles homer and are praising the Eagles for sticking it to Owens yet you are pushing the Packers to redo Walkers deal. Yeah, I understand the ages of each and the money they are getting, respectively, but you are flip flopping. What is good for the goose is good for the gander and if Walker wins this thing then the Eagles are in a lesser stance.If these two players were switched on these teams the situations would remain the same I think. Would the Eagles redo Walkers contract? Would the Packers redo Owens? I doubt it in both cases.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I can't wait to see Javon's negotiating leverage next year if he holds out as one of two scenarios will prevail.1. The Packers will make the playoffs without him and Driver, Ferguson and murphy will be bigger stars than the are right now proving they don't need Walker; or2. The Packers will miss the playoffs and Walker will be considered a reason for that. He will be accurately perceived as having wasted one of, if not the, last year of Favre's career and having gone against the advice of Five time world and superbowl champion and HOFer Bart Starr.

 

[MrPack]

There is some precedent... for Top receivers to play out their rookie contracts. (not taking into consideration signing bonuses but Javon got one of those too)

Harrison's Contract

1996 510,000.00

1997 637,500.00

1998 765,000.00

1999 892,500.00

2000 440,000.00

2001 500,000.00

2002 525,000.00

2003 4,500,000.00

2004 1,309,000.00

2005 1,000,000.00

2006 2,000,000.00

Moss's Contract

1998 230,000.00

1999 250,000.00

2000 358,000.00

2001 500,000.00

2002 525,000.00

2003 5,000,000.00

2004 5,750,000.00

2005 665,000.00

2006 8,250,000.00

2007 9,750,000.00

2008 11,250,000.00

Javon Walker needs to stop listening to Rosenhaus and show up. If Rosenhaus is so worried about injury, have him take out an insurance policy on him. He'll get paid if he performs again like he did last year. Plain and simple.

:goodpos:EXCELLENTposting:

 

[Jason Wood]

Wood, you are surprising me here a bit. You are an Eagles homer and are praising the Eagles for sticking it to Owens yet you are pushing the Packers to redo Walkers deal. Yeah, I understand the ages of each and the money they are getting, respectively, but you are flip flopping. What is good for the goose is good for the gander and if Walker wins this thing then the Eagles are in a lesser stance.

If these two players were switched on these teams the situations would remain the same I think. Would the Eagles redo Walkers contract? Would the Packers redo Owens? I doubt it in both cases.

Don't misunderstand me PK...I don't WANT the Packers to give in ...and they may in fact not give in because of the reasons already stated (Thompson has to build the team for 2006 and beyond, Sherman is a lame duck, Favre is near the end).

I'm just pointing out that Walker is within his rights to ask for more $$$ (as is TO), and that there is certainly more precedent for what Walker is doing (asking the Packers to rip up his rookie deal a year earlier than most) than for what Owens is asking for.

And in terms of "value"...Walker IS underpaid based on his production. Do the Packers have to correct that situation? Certainly not. But Walker isn't speaking out of the side of his mouth. Meanwhile TO is talking about feeding his kids when he was the 5th highest paid WR last year. And another subtle difference here...TO is asking the Eagles to rip up a deal with SIX YEARS REMAINING...Walker has two years left.

 

[packersfan]

Once again, Walker took a LARGER signing bonus up front in exchange for more years on his rookie contract. This is what Walker asked for and now he's suddenly decided (at Rosenhaus' whim) that he doesn't want it anymore. Well that's too damn bad. Walker wanted the money early and the Packers obliged. They did right by him. Now he wants to gouge them out of more money later. Again, he's trying to get his cake and eat it too and the Packers are (correctly) telling him that's not the way it works.

Walker has zero leverage here and anyone who thinks he does is seriously fooling themselves. As I and others have posted numerous times in this thread and in all other Walker threads, the Packers have proven they are more than willing to take care of their talented young players in the final year of their deal. What's more (and this is the point Walker really needs to pay attention to) Favre has worked with far lesser talents and done very well. He turned Freeman into a Pro Bowl WR and turned Robert Brooks into a legit go-to WR for a time and Lord knows he made Bill Schroeder look a helluva lot better than he really was (just ask the Lions about that). The Packers obviously are better with Walker, but Favre isn't Michael Vick -- he's proven he can excel with lesser talented WRs (and Driver is hardly lesser talented; Ferguson is a former high draft pick and the Packers absolutely love Murphy) so if Walker and Rosenhaus are sitting there believing the Packers absolutely need Walker to make their playoff run, they're delusional. The Packers will go on without him and as Favre's history strongly indicates, the passing game will continue to thrive.

If there's a position on the Green Bay Packers that has the least amount of leverage, it's the WR position. That's the one spot where the Packers have clearly thrived without having much in the way of top-line talent during Favre's career. History (not to mention common sense) is really working against Javon Walker and Drew Rosenhaus. Too bad they can't see it.

I think it has a lot less to do with what Favre can do with virtually any receiver and the fact that Thompson has no reason to leverage the future to win now with Favre nearing the end of things and Sherman playing out his contract.

Actually with Favre possibly in his final season there's tremendous pressure on Thompson to maintain the Packers' control of the division and continue to be a playoff threat. But the fact is Favre has made chicken salad out of chicken s**t throughout his career so he clearly doesn't need Javon Walker. The Packers obviously will be better with Walker but Favre has proven he doesn't need a Pro Bowl-caliber WR to thrive. That's a fact.

 

[MrPack]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

This is such an ignorant statement, especially coming from someone who supposedly knows the NFL and how it works. He made how many millions already? His rookie contract which he still has 2 years left, was for $7.5 Million. The first 2 years he did nothing and got paid big bucks. Last year he had an awesome year. So he's to get $500+k this year, $600+k next year. the first 3 years he probably made near $1 Million total. Lets do the math here: $7.5 Million contract around 1-2Million for the 5yrs for his yearly salary combined. That leave's a signing bonus of close to or over $5 Million. All that for maybe 2-3 good years. Only ONE and a half so far. He got all of his cash upfront, before he even stepped on the field.

So tell me again why he's being UNDERpaid????

He's Not - Let him sit

Javon Walker was the 20th pick in the 2002 draft. He has 153/2417/22 in his career.Ashley Lelie was the 19th pick in the 2002 draft. He has 126/2237/11 in his career.

Donte Stallworth was the 13th pick in the 2002 draft. He's got 125/1846/16.

David Terrell was the 8th pick in the 2001 draft; Koren Robinson the 9th pick; Rod Gardner the 15th pick; Santana Moss the 16th pick; Freddie Mitchell the 25th pick and Reggie Wayne the 30th pick....only Wayne is still on his remaining team.

In the 03 draft, Bryant Johnson was the 17th pick...I don't think he's turning into Javon Walker anytime soon. (Roy Williams and Andre Johnson of course were in this draft, but that's not much of a comparison).

There's no way to ague that Javon Walker has greatly surpassed expectations. With the possible exception of Reggie Wayne, he's been the best WR drafted over this span. The Packers definitely got a steal with the 20th pick. Like I said, I don't know/think he's worth 5M a year....but I know he's worth more than what he's currently being paid. You're paid based on future expectations, and Walker's got one of the most promising futures in the NFL.

See this post:

There is some precedent... for Top receivers to play out their rookie contracts. (not taking into consideration signing bonuses but Javon got one of those too)

Harrison's Contract

1996 510,000.00

1997 637,500.00

1998 765,000.00

1999 892,500.00

2000 440,000.00

2001 500,000.00

2002 525,000.00

2003 4,500,000.00

2004 1,309,000.00

2005 1,000,000.00

2006 2,000,000.00

Moss's Contract

1998 230,000.00

1999 250,000.00

2000 358,000.00

2001 500,000.00

2002 525,000.00

2003 5,000,000.00

2004 5,750,000.00

2005 665,000.00

2006 8,250,000.00

2007 9,750,000.00

2008 11,250,000.00

Javon Walker needs to stop listening to Rosenhaus and show up. If Rosenhaus is so worried about injury, have him take out an insurance policy on him. He'll get paid if he performs again like he did last year. Plain and simple.

If he would have just waited, the packers have a history of rewarding their stars. Rosenscum has chirped into the ear of someone who has immense talents on the football field, however hasn't a clue off of it.

 

[Jason Wood]

There is some precedent... for Top receivers to play out their rookie contracts. (not taking into consideration signing bonuses but Javon got one of those too)

Harrison's Contract

1996 510,000.00

1997 637,500.00

1998 765,000.00

1999 892,500.00

2000 440,000.00

2001 500,000.00

2002 525,000.00

2003 4,500,000.00

2004 1,309,000.00

2005 1,000,000.00

2006 2,000,000.00

Moss's Contract

1998 230,000.00

1999 250,000.00

2000 358,000.00

2001 500,000.00

2002 525,000.00

2003 5,000,000.00

2004 5,750,000.00

2005 665,000.00

2006 8,250,000.00

2007 9,750,000.00

2008 11,250,000.00

Javon Walker needs to stop listening to Rosenhaus and show up.  If Rosenhaus is so worried about injury, have him take out an insurance policy on him.  He'll get paid if he performs again like he did last year.  Plain and simple.

:goodpos:EXCELLENTposting:

Marvin Harrison signed a 4-year, $24 million extension with an $11.5 million signing bonus after his 4th season

Randy Moss signed an 8-year, $75 million extension with an $18 million signing bonus after his 3rd season

 

[Chase Stuart]

He doesn't have to continue putting up 2004 numbers to be paid commensurate with his production/talent. He's something like the 49th highest paid WR.

This is such an ignorant statement, especially coming from someone who supposedly knows the NFL and how it works. He made how many millions already? His rookie contract which he still has 2 years left, was for $7.5 Million. The first 2 years he did nothing and got paid big bucks. Last year he had an awesome year. So he's to get $500+k this year, $600+k next year. the first 3 years he probably made near $1 Million total. Lets do the math here: $7.5 Million contract around 1-2Million for the 5yrs for his yearly salary combined. That leave's a signing bonus of close to or over $5 Million. All that for maybe 2-3 good years. Only ONE and a half so far. He got all of his cash upfront, before he even stepped on the field.

So tell me again why he's being UNDERpaid????

He's Not - Let him sit

Javon Walker was the 20th pick in the 2002 draft. He has 153/2417/22 in his career.Ashley Lelie was the 19th pick in the 2002 draft. He has 126/2237/11 in his career.

Donte Stallworth was the 13th pick in the 2002 draft. He's got 125/1846/16.

David Terrell was the 8th pick in the 2001 draft; Koren Robinson the 9th pick; Rod Gardner the 15th pick; Santana Moss the 16th pick; Freddie Mitchell the 25th pick and Reggie Wayne the 30th pick....only Wayne is still on his remaining team.

In the 03 draft, Bryant Johnson was the 17th pick...I don't think he's turning into Javon Walker anytime soon. (Roy Williams and Andre Johnson of course were in this draft, but that's not much of a comparison).

There's no way to ague that Javon Walker has greatly surpassed expectations. With the possible exception of Reggie Wayne, he's been the best WR drafted over this span. The Packers definitely got a steal with the 20th pick. Like I said, I don't know/think he's worth 5M a year....but I know he's worth more than what he's currently being paid. You're paid based on future expectations, and Walker's got one of the most promising futures in the NFL.

See this post:

There is some precedent... for Top receivers to play out their rookie contracts. (not taking into consideration signing bonuses but Javon got one of those too)

Harrison's Contract

1996 510,000.00

1997 637,500.00

1998 765,000.00

1999 892,500.00

2000 440,000.00

2001 500,000.00

2002 525,000.00

2003 4,500,000.00

2004 1,309,000.00

2005 1,000,000.00

2006 2,000,000.00

Moss's Contract

1998 230,000.00

1999 250,000.00

2000 358,000.00

2001 500,000.00

2002 525,000.00

2003 5,000,000.00

2004 5,750,000.00

2005 665,000.00

2006 8,250,000.00

2007 9,750,000.00

2008 11,250,000.00

Javon Walker needs to stop listening to Rosenhaus and show up. If Rosenhaus is so worried about injury, have him take out an insurance policy on him. He'll get paid if he performs again like he did last year. Plain and simple.

If he would have just waited, the packers have a history of rewarding their stars. Rosenscum has chirped into the ear of someone who has immense talents on the football field, however hasn't a clue off of it.

What do you mean by the Packers? They have a new GM.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Long and Short, all teams have numerous guys they need to reward. They more or less line up for their rewards in order as contracts begin to come due. Sure there are exceptions, particularly for stars offering temporary cap relief, but teams have 52 other guys to take care of so there is a line. Walker wants to cut into the front of the line. He wants to put his wants (not his needs) ahead of other guys on the team. He is unwilling to wait his turn for what surely would, given the Packer's history of being generous with their stars, have been a huge payday. Line cutters should never be rewarded, they should be stomped down by the rest of the line. Much as I love Walker's talent I hope the team rallies around his absence as a way to both stomp him down and to draw together as a team.

 

[Chase Stuart]

For the record, my last stance on this (cause I don't want to be here all day):Walker's got a right to hold out -- I'm ok with him doing this.The Packers have a right to not budge -- I'm ok with them doing this.Walker, on some other teams, would have already had his rookie contract ripped up and deservedly got a new and more lucrative one.I don't think the Packers will budge here. I think the Packers have made a ton of bad moves this off-season, and this is just another one. At this point, they certainly don't need Javon Walker and if I were them I wouldn't budge either. They're simply not a SB contender.But if they could re-do everything, I'd have given Javon some money to keep him happy and avoid the PR mess, not drafted a QB in the first round, and signed some D.

 

[Jason Wood]

One other thought...can we stop blaming Rosenhaus? The guy a) gets results, b) works for the PLAYERS not the other way around, and c) we've seen from guys like Anquan Boldin (also a Drew client) that they each are free to make their own decisions. Boldin showed up to camp...do you honestly think Rosenhaus told him to show up but ordered Javon and TO not to?

 

[Jason Wood]

For the record, my last stance on this (cause I don't want to be here all day):

Walker's got a right to hold out -- I'm ok with him doing this.

The Packers have a right to not budge -- I'm ok with them doing this.

Walker, on some other teams, would have already had his rookie contract ripped up and deservedly got a new and more lucrative one.

I don't think the Packers will budge here.

I think the Packers have made a ton of bad moves this off-season, and this is just another one. At this point, they certainly don't need Javon Walker and if I were them I wouldn't budge either. They're simply not a SB contender.

But if they could re-do everything, I'd have given Javon some money to keep him happy and avoid the PR mess, not drafted a QB in the first round, and signed some D.

 

[packersfan]

I think Rosenhaus is a sleazy scumbag whose only concern is his next paycheck. He clearly does get results but he also has no true interest in his clients. They are simply another meal ticket. The sad thing here is he's potentially damaging a talented young player's career because the player in question apparently isn't smart enough to realize the poor advice he's getting and because Rosenhaus doesn't give a s**t about Walker as long as he can force the Packers or some other team to give him the money he wants.

 

[larz]

I think Rosenhaus is a sleazy scumbag whose only concern is his next paycheck. He clearly does get results but he also has no true interest in his clients. They are simply another meal ticket. The sad thing here is he's potentially damaging a talented young player's career because the player in question apparently isn't smart enough to realize the poor advice he's getting and because Rosenhaus doesn't give a s**t about Walker as long as he can force the Packers or some other team to give him the money he wants.

Most pimps don't care about their ho's

 

[ookook]

But if they could re-do everything, I'd have given Javon some money to keep him happy and avoid the PR mess, not drafted a QB in the first round, and signed some D.

Me too

 

[MrPack]

Wood, you are surprising me here a bit.  You are an Eagles homer and are praising the Eagles for sticking it to Owens yet you are pushing the Packers to redo Walkers deal.  Yeah, I understand the ages of each and the money they are getting, respectively, but you are flip flopping.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander and if Walker wins this thing then the Eagles are in a lesser stance.

If these two players were switched on these teams the situations would remain the same I think.  Would the Eagles redo Walkers contract?  Would the Packers redo Owens?  I doubt it in both cases.

Don't misunderstand me PK...I don't WANT the Packers to give in ...and they may in fact not give in because of the reasons already stated (Thompson has to build the team for 2006 and beyond, Sherman is a lame duck, Favre is near the end).

I'm just pointing out that Walker is within his rights to ask for more $$$ (as is TO), and that there is certainly more precedent for what Walker is doing (asking the Packers to rip up his rookie deal a year earlier than most) than for what Owens is asking for.

And in terms of "value"...Walker IS underpaid based on his production. Do the Packers have to correct that situation? Certainly not. But Walker isn't speaking out of the side of his mouth. Meanwhile TO is talking about feeding his kids when he was the 5th highest paid WR last year. And another subtle difference here...TO is asking the Eagles to rip up a deal with SIX YEARS REMAINING...Walker has two years left.

6 YRS OR 2 YRS........ Is there really a difference? A contract is a contract, right?

 

[Jason Wood]

I think Rosenhaus is a sleazy scumbag whose only concern is his next paycheck. He clearly does get results but he also has no true interest in his clients. They are simply another meal ticket. The sad thing here is he's potentially damaging a talented young player's career because the player in question apparently isn't smart enough to realize the poor advice he's getting and because Rosenhaus doesn't give a s**t about Walker as long as he can force the Packers or some other team to give him the money he wants.

If I was one of his clients, I would LOVE the guy. Seems like he's willing to walk through walls for them, and cares nothing about his own personal reputation as long as he gets his clients what they want and deserve. Do you honestly think he represents such a large number of clients by being someone whose only concern is HIS next paycheck. Being a sports agent is all about the relationship...NFL players by and large guys who have had their egos fed most of their lives. It takes someone who not only gets them results, but makes them feel like their at the top of his priority list too...particularly because they drive more business to him.It baffles me how otherwise intelligent people let their fanboy side obscure the fact that Drew Rosenhaus isn't evil, insane or misguided. He's calculated and gets results. Is he incapable of making a bad decision? Certainly not and once one or two of these gambits doesn't work out, his client list will see attrition. But until then to the guy.

 

[packersfan]

But if they could re-do everything, I'd have given Javon some money to keep him happy and avoid the PR mess

I'm sorry Chase, but you really don't seem to get it. The one suffering from a massive PR attack is Walker, not the Packers. Fans in Wisconsin are solidly behind the team here. Walker is the one being criticized -- heavily I might add -- not only by fans, but by teammates as well. He's the one losing, not the Packers.

And as far as the idea of free agents seeing this and not wanting to come to Green Bay, that's simply foolish as well. A good agent will point out that the Packers have a well-deserved reputation for taking care of their top players. You're not going to satisfy everyone obviously but this is not a team that pinches pennies. This is a team that will pay -- my God ask Cledius Hunt how many meals he can afford now or how about KGB? The idea that the Packers are cheap and won't reward talent is simply an ignorant statement that goes against their clear history.

I've also yet to see anyone siding with Walker talk about the fact that he doesn't merely want more money, he wants Top 5 WR money. So the idea that giving him another mill or two was going to make this all go away is ignoring everything Walker's asking for. Rosenhaus didn't lure him with the promise of another mill, he lured him with the promise of big-time cash.

 

[packersfan]

Jason, if you read what I wrote I clearly said Rosenhaus gets results. This has nothing to do with my "fanboy" side emerging. I simply think the guy is a sleazy piece of s**t. Sorry but that's how I feel. The fact is he can be a sleazy piece of s**t and be terrific at his job. Given how he's an agent, it's actually a strong trait in his favor.At no point have I ever said he doesn't get results. And players clearly flock to him because he does. But that doesn't mean I have to admire his tactics or the way he goes about his business. I respect the results; I detest the approach. Simple as that.

 

[bigreese82]

I think Rosenhaus is a sleazy scumbag whose only concern is his next paycheck. He clearly does get results but he also has no true interest in his clients. They are simply another meal ticket. The sad thing here is he's potentially damaging a talented young player's career because the player in question apparently isn't smart enough to realize the poor advice he's getting and because Rosenhaus doesn't give a s**t about Walker as long as he can force the Packers or some other team to give him the money he wants.

I think the PLAYER hires the AGENT ..with all the competition in the agent role, I'm sure players research these agents past deals and their philosophies. Why did Walker hire him..He wants more money. (The same about 70% of players changing agents)

 

[Jason Wood]

Wood, you are surprising me here a bit.  You are an Eagles homer and are praising the Eagles for sticking it to Owens yet you are pushing the Packers to redo Walkers deal.  Yeah, I understand the ages of each and the money they are getting, respectively, but you are flip flopping.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander and if Walker wins this thing then the Eagles are in a lesser stance.

If these two players were switched on these teams the situations would remain the same I think.  Would the Eagles redo Walkers contract?  Would the Packers redo Owens?  I doubt it in both cases.

Don't misunderstand me PK...I don't WANT the Packers to give in ...and they may in fact not give in because of the reasons already stated (Thompson has to build the team for 2006 and beyond, Sherman is a lame duck, Favre is near the end).

I'm just pointing out that Walker is within his rights to ask for more $$$ (as is TO), and that there is certainly more precedent for what Walker is doing (asking the Packers to rip up his rookie deal a year earlier than most) than for what Owens is asking for.

And in terms of "value"...Walker IS underpaid based on his production. Do the Packers have to correct that situation? Certainly not. But Walker isn't speaking out of the side of his mouth. Meanwhile TO is talking about feeding his kids when he was the 5th highest paid WR last year. And another subtle difference here...TO is asking the Eagles to rip up a deal with SIX YEARS REMAINING...Walker has two years left.

6 YRS OR 2 YRS........ Is there really a difference? A contract is a contract, right?

In my personal estimation, there is a difference but I won't fault anyone for thinking otherwise. I have more of a sympathetic bent for the circumstances though...because it's not just six years remaining on a deal, it's six years remaining on a deal that makes him one of the highest paid players at his position, for the team he begged to play for.

 

[packersfan]

I think Rosenhaus is a sleazy scumbag whose only concern is his next paycheck. He clearly does get results but he also has no true interest in his clients. They are simply another meal ticket. The sad thing here is he's potentially damaging a talented young player's career because the player in question apparently isn't smart enough to realize the poor advice he's getting and because Rosenhaus doesn't give a s**t about Walker as long as he can force the Packers or some other team to give him the money he wants.

I think the PLAYER hires the AGENT ..with all the competition in the agent role, I'm sure players research these agents past deals and their philosophies. Why did Walker hire him..He wants more money. (The same about 70% of players changing agents)

Of course. Now based on Rosenhaus' history my guess is it was Rosenhaus who went to Walker with the promise of big-time cash and Walker decided to dump his agent and jump on the DrewTrain. That's his right, of course. But I'm sorry, if people actually believe that Rosenhaus has this great love for his clients and isn't solely interested in his own rep and furthering his own standing they're kidding themselves. I don't think this guy give's a rat's a** who his clients are as long as the money keeps pouring in.And just so we're clear I don't begrudge Javon Walker one iota for wanting more money (and just for the record, neither does Brett Favre). I just think he's getting horrible advice from Rosenhaus and going about things in a very poor manner.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The Packers haven't been tested like this

They were tested, by Rosenhaus client Mike McKenzie last year, and failed - eventually meeting McKenzie's demands by trading him. Although there is a new sheriff in town (TT), I don't think it is a coincidence that there are three new Rosenhaus clients on the Packers roser this year (Walker, Jackson and Davenport), two of whom appear to be holding out.

 

[faede]

So let me get this straight.You would have tore up his contract and given him top 5 receiver money?That's what he's holding out for. The Packers have just cleaned up their cap for the next few years. You think that giving a guy like Javon Walker, Randy Moss type dollars would have been a good idea?You seem to think that dropping an extra million on him this season would have appeased him. That's ignorant of the situation. Javon Walker believes he deserves top 5 receiver dollars. That's been his stand throughout this whole process. A stand he's not backed down from.Why in the universe would you assume he'd just jump in and play for a couple million added to his current contract? As far as I'm concerned, that's not living in the realm of reality.If you want to appease Javon Walker and end this holdout/PR mess as you put it, you're going to have to pony up big dollars and a big pile of cap room for the next 5 seasons. You'd be doing this for a guy who has had exactly 1 season of "top 5" receiver stats... thrown by a QB who tends to make marginal receivers (Billy Schroeder, Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman) into statistical giants.You'll have to pardon me if I say I'm glad your not the GM of the Packers, Mr Stuart.

 

[faede]

Wood, you are surprising me here a bit.  You are an Eagles homer and are praising the Eagles for sticking it to Owens yet you are pushing the Packers to redo Walkers deal.  Yeah, I understand the ages of each and the money they are getting, respectively, but you are flip flopping.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander and if Walker wins this thing then the Eagles are in a lesser stance.

If these two players were switched on these teams the situations would remain the same I think.  Would the Eagles redo Walkers contract?  Would the Packers redo Owens?  I doubt it in both cases.

Don't misunderstand me PK...I don't WANT the Packers to give in ...and they may in fact not give in because of the reasons already stated (Thompson has to build the team for 2006 and beyond, Sherman is a lame duck, Favre is near the end).

I'm just pointing out that Walker is within his rights to ask for more $$$ (as is TO), and that there is certainly more precedent for what Walker is doing (asking the Packers to rip up his rookie deal a year earlier than most) than for what Owens is asking for.

And in terms of "value"...Walker IS underpaid based on his production. Do the Packers have to correct that situation? Certainly not. But Walker isn't speaking out of the side of his mouth. Meanwhile TO is talking about feeding his kids when he was the 5th highest paid WR last year. And another subtle difference here...TO is asking the Eagles to rip up a deal with SIX YEARS REMAINING...Walker has two years left.

6 YRS OR 2 YRS........ Is there really a difference? A contract is a contract, right?

In my personal estimation, there is a difference but I won't fault anyone for thinking otherwise. I have more of a sympathetic bent for the circumstances though...because it's not just six years remaining on a deal, it's six years remaining on a deal that makes him one of the highest paid players at his position, for the team he begged to play for.

True, but he's also a LOT more proven. T.O. is a perenial pro-bowler that has stood out as one of the best players at his position for the better part of a decade.Javon Walker had one season over 1000 yards.

PS. I'm not suggesting the Eagles should cave to T.O. Just as I think giving Javon Walker would set a very very bad precedent for future dealings.. I think the Eagles would be hamstringing themselves as well if they caved. They made a big stand with Duce Staley recently. To cave now on T.O. or to a lesser extend, Corey Simon would be detrimental to how they want to work as a franchise in the future.

 

[Jason Wood]

The Packers haven't been tested like this

They were tested, by Rosenhaus client Mike McKenzie last year, and failed - eventually meeting McKenzie's demands by trading him. Although there is a new sheriff in town (TT), I don't think it is a coincidence that there are three new Rosenhaus clients on the Packers roser this year (Walker, Jackson and Davenport), two of whom appear to be holding out.

Wait...player wants more money, team says no, player doesn't concede and holds out...team, despite having a sieve-like secondary, trades him to another NFC rival. That's evidence of the Packers winning?

 

[faede]

The Packers haven't been tested like this

They were tested, by Rosenhaus client Mike McKenzie last year, and failed - eventually meeting McKenzie's demands by trading him. Although there is a new sheriff in town (TT), I don't think it is a coincidence that there are three new Rosenhaus clients on the Packers roser this year (Walker, Jackson and Davenport), two of whom appear to be holding out.

Wait...player wants more money, team says no, player doesn't concede and holds out...team, despite having a sieve-like secondary, trades him to another NFC rival. That's evidence of the Packers winning?

They got a second round pick for McKenzie. Which, in my opinion, is highway robery.They got a cancer out of their locker room, which, not so coincidentally, began a much better run of football after their woeful start.

They picked up a safety that they really like in the draft because of McKenzie.

And McKenzie hasn't gotten an new contract and is threatening to hold out with his new team as well.

I'm not sure if there was a "winner" in that situation, but I can say without a doubt that Mike McKenzie is the very clear loser for his hold-out. He hasn't gotten his new contract, he lost a bunch of game checks and was fined the maximum amount for his absence.

I don't think there are any winners in a holdout, usually. But in this case, the player most definitely was the big time loser.