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Rumor: Vincent Jackson to Bears for Aromashodu and a 2nd (1 Viewer)
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twistd
Footballguy
To me, as a Bears fan, the issue isn't talent. He is certainly better than anyone on the Bears now. And giving up Aromashodu and a second would be worth it as far as compensation goes. But the problem is money. He wants a contract like what Marshall got, in the ballpark of $10 million a year. I think that is too much dough for him at this point. When you combine the contract with the compensation demand, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Legal troubles aren't the only forms of bad publicity. Check some Cutler threads from last offseason to see what people thought of him at the time of the trade (and in the months following, when he got kicked out of a country club and was seen being a drunk d-bag around town).gigantor said:
Sounds like you've got an awfully interesting definition of "good citizen". Marshall was suspended from Denver's must-win week 16 game against the Chiefs (they were playing for a playoff spot) because McDaniels said he was exaggerating an injury to get out of practice. Marshall then proceeded to take shots at McDaniels in the press, saying he wasn't qualified to say anything because he never played in the NFL and suggesting that he was just looking for a scapegoat for the fact that the Broncos were 2-7 in their last 9 games. Brandon Marshall didn't even make it four full months without getting into trouble with the organization again.http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/22105283/detail.htmlsholditch said:
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
It wouldn't be far off to compare his issues to Benson's. Obviously, Tank is a different story.
jeter23
Footballguy
Big difference between being immature and drinking too much and what Benson/Tank did.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Weren't Benson's issues based on drinking and being immature?Big difference between being immature and drinking too much and what Benson/Tank did.
That and sucking on the football field. I don't know where "refusing to return your employer's phone calls" ranks against "boating while intoxicated", but I'd say they're in a similar ballpark. Obviously felony weapon possession is a completely different sport.Either way, the original post was about Angelo going out of his way to avoid bad publicity, and regardless of what you think about the relative merits of Cutler's infractions vs. Benson's, the simple fact remains that more negative publicity surrounded Cutler than Benson. I still believe that Benson was let go from the Bears because he committed the crime of not being a very good football player for them and not because the Bears front office is trying to set themselves up as a beacon of morality and ethics in the dark and blighted landscape of the NFL.
jeter23
Footballguy
and assault and getting arrested.Weren't Benson's issues based on drinking and being immature?Big difference between being immature and drinking too much and what Benson/Tank did.
I sort of doubt that the assault factored into Angelo's decision-making process, seeing as it didn't happen until two years after Benson was released by the Bears.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
He says he was defending himself. And it was that action that got him arrested. You think Cutler wouldn't defend himself?and assault and getting arrested.Weren't Benson's issues based on drinking and being immature?Big difference between being immature and drinking too much and what Benson/Tank did.
34=Sweetness
Footballguy
Angelo is desperate to save his job. If the Bears don't make the playoffs this year, hes gone. Period. I don't think this is very credible but I don't think publicity concerns are going to stop Angelo from making a move that will improve the team in the short-term.steelcitysledgehammers said:
jeter23
Footballguy
"Before the start of the 2008 season, Benson was arrested for allegedly operating a boat while intoxicated and resisting arrest.[22] On May 3, 2008, the incident occurred near Austin, Texas by the Lower Colorado River Authority during a late night safety inspection.[22] The official police report cited that Benson had failed a field sobriety test, and became hostile towards the police.[22] The officers arrested Benson, and proceeded to use pepper-spray after he forcefully resisted arrest.[23] Benson was later detained for the night, and released in the morning after paying bail of $10-$14,000 dollars for boating while intoxicated and an additional $4,500 charge for resisting arrest.[23]"Close enough, still nothing close to Cutler's issues.
Polar Dude
Footballguy
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-05...fety-check-lcraBy my count, I've got a DUI and a BUI (boating under the influence) for Benson, vs. Cutler refusing to return his employer's phone calls, getting kicked out of a country club for refusing to tuck in his shirt, and earning himself a reputation for being a partyer and a doucher around town. While we could argue over which are worse (I'd say a much greater percentage of the population drives under the influence than refuses to speak to their employer while under contract), but at the end of the day, I think they're both in the same ballpark. Yet, despite two players both producing comparable offenses and drawing a comparable amount of negative publicity to the Bears, one was released and one was not. The one that was released was playing terribly on the field and had a cap-friendly salary to cut. The one that wasn't released has played better than terribly on the field, has an unfriendly salary for cutting purposes, and the GM has pretty much staked his career on his acquisition. Those facts, taken together, suggest to me that despite Angelo's claims to the contrary, character is *NOT* all that matters when he's running his football team. He's more than willing to overlook some bad publicity as long as the player is talented and performing (or as long as his reputation and possibly his career are on the line).jeter23 said:
It's like Pittsburgh and Ben Roethlisberger. They want to make a stand to show that character matters... but really all they've shown is that character matters AS LONG AS THEY THINK THEY CAN LIVE WITHOUT YOU. Which is true for 31 other NFL teams, as well.
Here's an article that may be somewhat relevant — although the author gets some factual stuff wrong.
Smith holds ground even if it makes him unhappy.
Smith holds ground even if it makes him unhappy.
You have a curious view towards drunk driving. While many people do it, comparing it to refusing to speak to ones' employer doesn't make it alright just because most don't do it. One gets people killed/maimed/arrested and the other gets one fired.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Concur.That is an absolutely ridiculous comment.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Yikes. A lot of bizarre thinking in this little nugget here.
jeter23
Footballguy
Your first part makes no sense. Just because something may be rare (ignoring a boss) does not make it worse or better than any other offense, especially one as serious as driving under the influence. Again, just because that is something that happens everyday, does not make it less serious.The second part of your argument, I agree with. If Benson had been producing all league type numbers, he would still be a Bear.
chook
Footballguy
I get it, you hate Cutler. But can you stop making RIDICULOUS statements like the above?Maybe when you have a friend/family member killed by someone refusing to answer a phone call from his boss you can chime in with this sort of perspective.
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Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
By my count, Benson has:
0 - DUI convictions
0 - Assault convictions
0 - DUI convictions
0 - Assault convictions
steelcitysledgehammers
Footballguy
Gads! Why is this thread still on the front page?
Give no credence to this unfounded rumor. As it's already been established, the Bears released both Benson and Johnson (who are still NFL caliber players) without either having been convicted of their second offense (3rd in the case of Johnson). In Benson's case, he was never convicted of any the offenses for which he was arrested (one pending?). Sure, Benson was a turd while with the Bears so his release became addition by subtraction, but he was still our most talented and highest paid RB at the time (now Taylor). Johnson was well liked in the clubhouse and wasn't breaking the bank but the Bears still chose to release him outright rather than give the franchise any more bad publicity. They were willing to stick with him through the whole gun possession and the murder of his buddy but they told him he absolutely had to keep his name out of the papers. Getting pulled over for speeding was the straw that broke the Bears back.
The Bears will give their players one strike and then they expect the player to keep their heads down and stay out of trouble. If they're foolish/unfortunate enough to have another run-in with Johny Law their out.
With that said, they're not going to trade for a player who's just plead guilty to his 2nd conviction and is facing a league suspension. The only way they'd consider this is if Jackson were willing to sign some unreasonably friendly contract extension and that ain't gonna happen since the whole point of his hold out is to get more money.
There is nothing remotely rational about this trade rumor beyond the fact Jackson's a WR and everyone believes the Bears still need a #1 WR. The rest is horse-puckey.
SSOG - Let it go, man. Your disdain for Cutler is obvious, but carry it on in some other thread. Don't let this thread continue to tease those of us who come looking for credible information.
Thanks,
J
Give no credence to this unfounded rumor. As it's already been established, the Bears released both Benson and Johnson (who are still NFL caliber players) without either having been convicted of their second offense (3rd in the case of Johnson). In Benson's case, he was never convicted of any the offenses for which he was arrested (one pending?). Sure, Benson was a turd while with the Bears so his release became addition by subtraction, but he was still our most talented and highest paid RB at the time (now Taylor). Johnson was well liked in the clubhouse and wasn't breaking the bank but the Bears still chose to release him outright rather than give the franchise any more bad publicity. They were willing to stick with him through the whole gun possession and the murder of his buddy but they told him he absolutely had to keep his name out of the papers. Getting pulled over for speeding was the straw that broke the Bears back.
The Bears will give their players one strike and then they expect the player to keep their heads down and stay out of trouble. If they're foolish/unfortunate enough to have another run-in with Johny Law their out.
With that said, they're not going to trade for a player who's just plead guilty to his 2nd conviction and is facing a league suspension. The only way they'd consider this is if Jackson were willing to sign some unreasonably friendly contract extension and that ain't gonna happen since the whole point of his hold out is to get more money.
There is nothing remotely rational about this trade rumor beyond the fact Jackson's a WR and everyone believes the Bears still need a #1 WR. The rest is horse-puckey.
SSOG - Let it go, man. Your disdain for Cutler is obvious, but carry it on in some other thread. Don't let this thread continue to tease those of us who come looking for credible information.
Thanks,
J
If we're talking about somebody I'd want to play football for my team, not somebody I'd like to date my daughter, I'd much prefer a guy with a few DUIs to a guy who will disrespect his coach.
From a football standpoint, the only problem with VJ's DUIs is the potential for further suspensions if he can't cut it out. VJ isn't known for coming to practice hungover and sleeping through meetings. He practices hard, and he's improved every year. He's a good citizen — on the football field. (Actually, he's made some boneheaded decisions on the field as well; but just out of stupidity, not insubordination.)
As a GM, if I had to choose, I'd take the guy who behaves poorly in his private life over the guy who behaves poorly in the locker room.
But, you know, different pretend-GMs can have different philosophies, I suppose.
From a football standpoint, the only problem with VJ's DUIs is the potential for further suspensions if he can't cut it out. VJ isn't known for coming to practice hungover and sleeping through meetings. He practices hard, and he's improved every year. He's a good citizen — on the football field. (Actually, he's made some boneheaded decisions on the field as well; but just out of stupidity, not insubordination.)
As a GM, if I had to choose, I'd take the guy who behaves poorly in his private life over the guy who behaves poorly in the locker room.
But, you know, different pretend-GMs can have different philosophies, I suppose.
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I never once said that driving drunk was "alright". I have very, very strong personal views on driving under the influence. A good friend of mine was orphaned 2 months before her high school graduation by a drunk driver. She couldn't walk again for almost a year. I think it's reckless and reprehensible. I also think that it's portrayed by society at large as a perfectly fine thing to do. For instance, a party of four could go to a restaurant and order a couple rounds of drinks and nobody in the restaurant would bat an eye. How does the waiter think those 4 people got there? Does the waiter think there's a 5th member of the party who is hiding in the bathroom during dinner, but who is going to drive them home? After 2-3 drinks, every single member of that party is likely over the legal limit, and nobody in the restaurant so much as bats an eyelash. Or the boating under the influence thing... how often have the movies glorified getting a 12-pack and going fishing on the lake with dad? I hope you're using those beers to keep the fish cold, because otherwise you're now boating under the influence.The simple fact is that drunk driving is RAMPANT in America, and most of the time what the law considers drunk driving, society at large would not. MADD estimates that there were 159 million alcohol-impaired driving trips in 2002. In 2006, there was 1 drunk driving arrest for every 139 licensed drivers... and the average American drives drunk 87 times before getting caught. Taking those two statistics together, it's entirely possible that the MAJORITY of the population in America has driven drunk. Which totally meshes with what I've seen from people I know. If driving under the influence automatically make someone a scumbag, than the majority of Americans are scumbags (most without even a moment's remorse... unless they get caught). Odds are most people reading this thread have had 3 beers with dinner before, or have gone to a party and then later driven home, or have gone out drinking with some friends, or have been in any number of situations where they've driven "tipsy", or driven "buzzed", or even not been feeling the effects... but ultimately who drove while over the legal limit.So, in the end, you've got a guy who is guilty of doing something that society at large is openly outraged about... but which it implicitly condones on a daily basis. On the other hand, you've got a guy who is guilty of doing something that society pretty unanimously agrees is unacceptable behavior. The first behavior is, in my opinion, far and away the more reprehensible. The second behavior is, in my opinion, far and away the more inexcusable, and probably the greater reflection on the player's character.
I don't hate Cutler. As a Bronco fan, I was mortified when they first started discussing trading him, and even more mortified when they actually did it. I thought at the time, and I *STILL* think, that it was an idiotic move. I've routinely written many scathing comments about the way Josh McDaniels handled the incident, and I've just as frequently written comments that were mildly supportive of Jay Cutler (I can't support refusing to talk to the guy who is still signing your paychecks, but I understand how he got pushed to that point). This is not me with an axe to grind against Jay Cutler. With all of that said... is he a tool? Yeah, it definitely seems like he's a pretty big tool. That's fine, it takes all kinds to make the world go round. I'm sure a lot of people would call me a pretty big tool, too.I'm not at all trying to say that drunk driving is a perfectly fine thing to do. All I'm saying is that society as a whole treats drunk driving like it's a perfectly fine thing to do, as long as you're only driving a little drunk and not a whole lot drunk.
Like I said, I like Cutler. I think he's a hell of a football player. I really, really wish he was still a Bronco, and Shanahan/Dennison/Turner with him. This isn't about Cutler. This is about Jerry Angelo, and how when he says "we only want high character guys", what he really means is "we only want high character guys... unless they're really talented, in which case their character doesn't matter nearly as much".Edit: I'm not even saying that's a bad position for Angelo to have. Hell, that's exactly how I feel. I think Cutler's a low-character guy, but I still want him on my team because he's really talented. I'm just saying that we should call a spade a spade, here. If Angelo thinks VJax is very talented, then a couple of DUIs aren't going to stop him from adding him to the Bears.
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