Ryan Mathews & Mike Tolbert, RBs, San Diego Chargers (1 Viewer)

[tommyGunZ]

However, the fact that there is even a debate about a 10th Round back vs a 4th or 5th Round back at this point says all we need to know.

After 1 week?

 

[Tau837]

I don't know which staffer wrote the Ryan Mathews portion of the Upgrades/Downgrades email, but it's pretty comical that he was listed in the downgrade section. On what planet does 118 yards get you a downgrade?

 

[Tau837]

However, the fact that there is even a debate about a 10th Round back vs a 4th or 5th Round back at this point says all we need to know.

After 1 week?

 

[[icon]]

I don't know which staffer wrote the Ryan Mathews portion of the Upgrades/Downgrades email, but it's pretty comical that he was listed in the downgrade section. On what planet does 118 yards get you a downgrade?

Agreed. I'd say hold steady was a better rating.

 

[moderated]

Mathews was in the top 15 in week one fantasy rb scoring. He was drafted later then that.

Of course Tolbert looks like a better "value" at this point, but Mathews isn't underperforming his adp.

 

[Raider Nation]

Mathews was in the top 15 in week one fantasy rb scoring. He was drafted later then that.Of course Tolbert looks like a better "value" at this point, but Mathews isn't underperforming his adp.

I demand a retraction and apology for his "downgrade" status. Which way is the complaint department?

 

[cvnpoka]

However, the fact that there is even a debate about a 10th Round back vs a 4th or 5th Round back at this point says all we need to know.

After 1 week?

tolbert went in the 7th round

 

[Football Jones]

Mathews is one of the best players you can acquire in dynasty leagues right now, IMO. Not saying Tolbert won't be involved, but Mathews is on the verge of FF superstardom. It's only a matter of time.

 

[placebo]

Just caught this game on rewind, am a Mathews owner. MIN was definitely selling out on stopping Gates and the wideouts which lead to so many of those dump-offs for both backs, including Tolbert's first TD. Mathews was simply better on his catches. For all the talk ITT about Tolbert breaking tackles, it was Mathews getting more yards after first contact, as well as making people miss by being so quick and elusive. Tolbert was trying to run over people with pretty limited success other than his great TD run. Tolbert's 3rd TD another case of them closely guarding Gates and the WR's, and simply poor defense with LB's leaving Tolbert to cheat up on a potential Rivers run where he would have been no threat to make a 1st down.

As far as carries, the run blocking wasn't great on a lot of plays, as D was meeting at LOS or behind it on some plays. With solid blocking Mathews was able to break through the hole quicker and turn a would be 4 yard Tolbert run into a 10 yard play. There were also several instances where MIN had no coverage for outside runs, but Tolbert always tried to force it up the middle. Mathews managed to bounce a similar play breaking out of a pile for 11 yards to the outside.

Bottom line takeaway for me, Tolbert is a good football player, he's got the coaches' trust for good reason. You can always count on him to make a good, solid play and occasionally break a tackle and get more. I just think the coaches are also going to realize having Tolbert in instead of Mathews is limiting their upside on every play; and once Mathews gains more trust his touches are going to increase along with GL and 3rd down stuff. (Sorry if I'm restating what someone's already said.) Already in this game, on San Diego's last series, Tolbert got pulled after 3 snaps. Mathews came in for the rest of the game, picking up a huge 11 yard reception in the reception. Not trying to knock Tolbert and he'll stay relevant no matter what but I'll take Mathews going forward. Tolbert's currently in a better situation but situations change, talent doesn't.

 

[NajehHejan]

Just caught this game on rewind, am a Mathews owner. MIN was definitely selling out on stopping Gates and the wideouts which lead to so many of those dump-offs for both backs, including Tolbert's first TD. Mathews was simply better on his catches. For all the talk ITT about Tolbert breaking tackles, it was Mathews getting more yards after first contact, as well as making people miss by being so quick and elusive. Tolbert was trying to run over people with pretty limited success other than his great TD run. Tolbert's 3rd TD another case of them closely guarding Gates and the WR's, and simply poor defense with LB's leaving Tolbert to cheat up on a potential Rivers run where he would have been no threat to make a 1st down.

As far as carries, the run blocking wasn't great on a lot of plays, as D was meeting at LOS or behind it on some plays. With solid blocking Mathews was able to break through the hole quicker and turn a would be 4 yard Tolbert run into a 10 yard play. There were also several instances where MIN had no coverage for outside runs, but Tolbert always tried to force it up the middle. Mathews managed to bounce a similar play breaking out of a pile for 11 yards to the outside.

Bottom line takeaway for me, Tolbert is a good football player, he's got the coaches' trust for good reason. You can always count on him to make a good, solid play and occasionally break a tackle and get more. I just think the coaches are also going to realize having Tolbert in instead of Mathews is limiting their upside on every play; and once Mathews gains more trust his touches are going to increase along with GL and 3rd down stuff. (Sorry if I'm restating what someone's already said.) Already in this game, on San Diego's last series, Tolbert got pulled after 3 snaps. Mathews came in for the rest of the game, picking up a huge 11 yard reception in the reception. Not trying to knock Tolbert and he'll stay relevant no matter what but I'll take Mathews going forward. Tolbert's currently in a better situation but situations change, talent doesn't.

Good overall analysis, but the bolded only applies because Tolbert got banged up, left the field in pain. Otherwise, Tolbert would have never left the game, and Mathews would have stayed on the sidelines. I'm a Mathews owner and don't own Tolbert.

 

[placebo]

Good overall analysis, but the bolded only applies because Tolbert got banged up, left the field in pain. Otherwise, Tolbert would have never left the game, and Mathews would have stayed on the sidelines. I'm a Mathews owner and don't own Tolbert.

I forgot about that. That's what I get for fast forwarding, and being biased lol. In an attempt to save face here, Mathews did a good job with that opportunity.

 

[[icon]]

However, the fact that there is even a debate about a 10th Round back vs a 4th or 5th Round back at this point says all we need to know.

After 1 week?

tolbert went in the 7th round

All Drafts the weekend 20th/21st:$250 Buyin 16 Team Non PPR : I got him at Pick 116 -- Matthews went 3rd Round (Pick 39)

$50 Buyin 10 Team PPR : I got Him at 10:10 (Pick 110) -- Matthews went 6.02

$50 Buyin 10 Team PPR : Someone else got him at 11:09 (Pick 119) -- Matthews went 5.07

According to MFL his ADP is around pick 100.

I preferred to grab someone in this range, then get comparable (or perhaps slightly diminished) production out of Tolbert in the 10th.

37. Bryant, Dez DAL WR 42.14 1 210 4127

38. Romo, Tony DAL QB 42.31 1 178 4026

39. Williams, Mike TBB WR 42.47 2 218 4128

40. Welker, Wes NEP WR 42.86 3 301 4130

41. Jones, Felix DAL RB 44.07 3 160 4123

42. Marshall, Brandon MIA WR 44.67 11 202 4127

43. Mathews, Ryan SDC RB 46.26 1 211 4121

44. Finley, Jermichael GBP TE 47.32 6 206 4124

45. Greene, Shonn NYJ RB 47.96 3 227 4113

46. Witten, Jason DAL TE 48.81 1 238 4127

47. Ryan, Matt ATL QB 51.09 1 150 4022

48. Colston, Marques NOS WR 51.32 5 205 4125

49. Williams, DeAngelo CAR RB 51.40 5 195 4106

Regardless.... Will Matthews turn it around and likely finish with better fantasy numbers than Tolbert? Very possibly...borderline likely.

However, are the odds of him finishing far enough ahead of Tolbert to justify the 5-6 round earlier draft position? Not for me. YMMV. We'll just see how everything shakes out this year.

 

[VaTerp]

Just caught this game on rewind, am a Mathews owner. MIN was definitely selling out on stopping Gates and the wideouts which lead to so many of those dump-offs for both backs, including Tolbert's first TD. Mathews was simply better on his catches. For all the talk ITT about Tolbert breaking tackles, it was Mathews getting more yards after first contact, as well as making people miss by being so quick and elusive. Tolbert was trying to run over people with pretty limited success other than his great TD run. Tolbert's 3rd TD another case of them closely guarding Gates and the WR's, and simply poor defense with LB's leaving Tolbert to cheat up on a potential Rivers run where he would have been no threat to make a 1st down. As far as carries, the run blocking wasn't great on a lot of plays, as D was meeting at LOS or behind it on some plays. With solid blocking Mathews was able to break through the hole quicker and turn a would be 4 yard Tolbert run into a 10 yard play. There were also several instances where MIN had no coverage for outside runs, but Tolbert always tried to force it up the middle. Mathews managed to bounce a similar play breaking out of a pile for 11 yards to the outside.Bottom line takeaway for me, Tolbert is a good football player, he's got the coaches' trust for good reason. You can always count on him to make a good, solid play and occasionally break a tackle and get more. I just think the coaches are also going to realize having Tolbert in instead of Mathews is limiting their upside on every play; and once Mathews gains more trust his touches are going to increase along with GL and 3rd down stuff. (Sorry if I'm restating what someone's already said.) Already in this game, on San Diego's last series, Tolbert got pulled after 3 snaps. Mathews came in for the rest of the game, picking up a huge 11 yard reception in the reception. Not trying to knock Tolbert and he'll stay relevant no matter what but I'll take Mathews going forward. Tolbert's currently in a better situation but situations change, talent doesn't.

As a Tolbert owner I think this is a pretty fair assessment. There was one run in particular I remember where Tolbert had the whole left side of the field open but decided to put his head down and run into the pile at the line. Mathews hits the edge and breaks off a big play.As has been stated numerous times, Tolbert was an excellent pick this year and should have value all season but I think Mathews time is coming. He is an ideal buy low candidate right now IMO.

 

[cvnpoka]

However, the fact that there is even a debate about a 10th Round back vs a 4th or 5th Round back at this point says all we need to know.

After 1 week?

tolbert went in the 7th round

All Drafts the weekend 20th/21st:

so you are relying on outdated data. fbg adp consensus had him 88 standard, 82 ppr.heres the drafts i have data on, all 12 teams

ppr (fbg ffpc)

7.2

7.7

7.4

7.3

7.6

7.2

7.2

8.2

7.5

non ppr

7.3

6.5

6.11

8.8

6.5

 

[[icon]]

so you are relying on outdated data. fbg adp consensus had him 88 standard, 82 ppr.

The point of the matter is Tolbert was available anywhere from 4 to 7 rounds after Matthews depending on your league and when you drafted... and there is actually some debate as to who will finish as the better fantasy back. That should say everything we need to know. Regardless... I'm done arguing on this topic. If people can't grasp the upside of having gotten Tolbert plus someone like Marshall, Tampa Mike, Welker vs getting Matthews and someone like Amendola, AJ Green, or J Stewart then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up.

Either way, if you had both, would you start both on any given week?

 

[cvnpoka]

so you are relying on outdated data. fbg adp consensus had him 88 standard, 82 ppr.

The point of the matter is Tolbert was available anywhere from 4 to 7 rounds after Matthews depending on your league and when you drafted... and there is actually some debate as to who will finish as the better fantasy back. That should say everything we need to know. Regardless... I'm done arguing on this topic. If people can't grasp the upside of having gotten Tolbert plus someone like Marshall, Tampa Mike, Welker vs getting Matthews and someone like Amendola, AJ Green, or J Stewart then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

i get all of that. tolbert was a great 7th round pick. hell it may turn out to be the pick of the draft. mathews may still be a fine 4th round pick, in fact, he is on pace to be.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up. Either way, if you had both, would you start both on any given week?

Another reason why Mathews was drafted higher and still carries more value: there is a decent chance Mathews emerges and becomes an every week starting caliber RB for your fantasy team. W/o an injury to Mathews, there is very little chance you'll ever use Tolbert except as bye week filler in start 2 RB leagues.

 

[shadyridr]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up.

Either way, if you had both, would you start both on any given week?

Another reason why Mathews was drafted higher and still carries more value: there is a decent chance Mathews emerges and becomes an every week starting caliber RB for your fantasy team. W/o an injury to Mathews, there is very little chance you'll ever use Tolbert except as bye week filler in start 2 RB leagues.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up.

How do you come to the conclusion that they'll get stuffed? Based on Miami's stats? I don't think either of the SD running backs runs like Reggie "East/West" Bush. Bush still thinks he can outrun everyone in the NFL like he did in college. I don't remember NE ever being a defense that shuts down the run. Maybe if they get a big lead, but then both RB's will get use in the passing game.SD strikes me as a team that is either too secure, or too stupid to fear the Pats. I think it could be a great game this weekend.

 

[Apple Jack]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up. Either way, if you had both, would you start both on any given week?

Another reason why Mathews was drafted higher and still carries more value: there is a decent chance Mathews emerges and becomes an every week starting caliber RB for your fantasy team. W/o an injury to Mathews, there is very little chance you'll ever use Tolbert except as bye week filler in start 2 RB leagues.

Huh? Did you not see the game Sunday? 30+ points in week one in my PPR league. San Diego moves the ball and scores points and Tolbert gets the goal-line carries. What about that suggests he's not at least a flex option week in and week out?I have both of them and I'm seriously considering starting both.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up. Either way, if you had both, would you start both on any given week?

Another reason why Mathews was drafted higher and still carries more value: there is a decent chance Mathews emerges and becomes an every week starting caliber RB for your fantasy team. W/o an injury to Mathews, there is very little chance you'll ever use Tolbert except as bye week filler in start 2 RB leagues.

Huh? Did you not see the game Sunday? 30+ points in week one in my PPR league. San Diego moves the ball and scores points and Tolbert gets the goal-line carries. What about that suggests he's not at least a flex option week in and week out?I have both of them and I'm seriously considering starting both.

I'd be willing to wager a LOT of money that Sunday will be Tolbert's highest scoring game of the season, and that he won't have 3 TDs or 9 receptions in any game for the rest of the season.Start him going fwd at your own risk - I wouldn't feel comfortable if he was my RB2. I think folks starting him the next few weeks are chasing Sunday's points.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up. Either way, if you had both, would you start both on any given week?

Another reason why Mathews was drafted higher and still carries more value: there is a decent chance Mathews emerges and becomes an every week starting caliber RB for your fantasy team. W/o an injury to Mathews, there is very little chance you'll ever use Tolbert except as bye week filler in start 2 RB leagues.

Huh? Did you not see the game Sunday? 30+ points in week one in my PPR league. San Diego moves the ball and scores points and Tolbert gets the goal-line carries. What about that suggests he's not at least a flex option week in and week out?I have both of them and I'm seriously considering starting both.

I'd be willing to wager a LOT of money that Sunday will be Tolbert's highest scoring game of the season, and that he won't have 3 TDs or 9 receptions in any game for the rest of the season.Start him going fwd at your own risk - I wouldn't feel comfortable if he was my RB2. I think folks starting him the next few weeks are chasing Sunday's points.

No worries about chasing points when you own Tolbert in "best ball". Glad to have him for the 10th round price.

 

[Apple Jack]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up. Either way, if you had both, would you start both on any given week?

Another reason why Mathews was drafted higher and still carries more value: there is a decent chance Mathews emerges and becomes an every week starting caliber RB for your fantasy team. W/o an injury to Mathews, there is very little chance you'll ever use Tolbert except as bye week filler in start 2 RB leagues.

Huh? Did you not see the game Sunday? 30+ points in week one in my PPR league. San Diego moves the ball and scores points and Tolbert gets the goal-line carries. What about that suggests he's not at least a flex option week in and week out?I have both of them and I'm seriously considering starting both.

I'd be willing to wager a LOT of money that Sunday will be Tolbert's highest scoring game of the season, and that he won't have 3 TDs or 9 receptions in any game for the rest of the season.Start him going fwd at your own risk - I wouldn't feel comfortable if he was my RB2. I think folks starting him the next few weeks are chasing Sunday's points.

I agree that he's not going to top that performance. But it was a peek at their current approach and what his upside is. And getting the total out of him and Mathews from the RB2 and flex doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Granted, I have Foster and MJD, so this is just until Foster's back, at which point I'll be back to agonizing over the flex.The bottom line is that for now Tolbert is trusted by Norv to get the ball into the end zone more than Mathews, giving him more of an upside. And that reality was just driven home in a way that couldn't have been more clear.

 

[RUSF18]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up. Either way, if you had both, would you start both on any given week?

Another reason why Mathews was drafted higher and still carries more value: there is a decent chance Mathews emerges and becomes an every week starting caliber RB for your fantasy team. W/o an injury to Mathews, there is very little chance you'll ever use Tolbert except as bye week filler in start 2 RB leagues.

Huh? Did you not see the game Sunday? 30+ points in week one in my PPR league. San Diego moves the ball and scores points and Tolbert gets the goal-line carries. What about that suggests he's not at least a flex option week in and week out?I have both of them and I'm seriously considering starting both.

I'd be willing to wager a LOT of money that Sunday will be Tolbert's highest scoring game of the season, and that he won't have 3 TDs or 9 receptions in any game for the rest of the season.Start him going fwd at your own risk - I wouldn't feel comfortable if he was my RB2. I think folks starting him the next few weeks are chasing Sunday's points.

I think you're being unnecessarily confining by reducing his role to just that in a start 2 RB league. The majority of leagues will use a flex option, and if you drafted him in the 8th-10th round, that's exactly where you should have hoped to stick him, and you should be comfortable putting him there every week.Signed, A content Mathews owner in a start 2 RB league

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

So who did we decide was the better play this week? I can't find consensus. On one side, Mathews is more talented and is getting some coach praise, suggesting his load will increase. Yet it's hard to argue the stats and situational play of Tolbert.

(head explodes)

 

[flooredyas]

Will be starting him as my flex this week over Santonio. Given the recent concerns about Holmes makes this a relatively easy decision to start Tolbert. If I had Mathews-I'd start Tolbert over him.

 

[Gr00vus]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up.

How do you come to the conclusion that they'll get stuffed? Based on Miami's stats? I don't think either of the SD running backs runs like Reggie "East/West" Bush. Bush still thinks he can outrun everyone in the NFL like he did in college. I don't remember NE ever being a defense that shuts down the run. Maybe if they get a big lead, but then both RB's will get use in the passing game.SD strikes me as a team that is either too secure, or too stupid to fear the Pats. I think it could be a great game this weekend.

Henne just threw for 400+ on that D. Meanwhile they're now basically playing a 4-3 with Wilfork, Hayensworth et. al. up front. I don't know that the LBs are that great, but it still seems like your best bet is to pass a bit more than run against them. Norv worked both RBs into the pass game well last week, so the touches should still be there unless BB decides to play his back 7 tight for some reason (seems like a bad idea, given their druthers the Chargers love to go deep). Matthews is a better bet for 100 yards, Tolbert is a better bet for a TD.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

Man I wish the Patriots weren't up next for these guys... Both will probably get stuffed early, and SD will be down by 21 points by the end of the half. I think the 3-4 yard gut run gameplan by Tolbert will quickly go out the window, but Mathews may get more looks in the passing game as they try to keep up.

How do you come to the conclusion that they'll get stuffed? Based on Miami's stats? I don't think either of the SD running backs runs like Reggie "East/West" Bush. Bush still thinks he can outrun everyone in the NFL like he did in college. I don't remember NE ever being a defense that shuts down the run. Maybe if they get a big lead, but then both RB's will get use in the passing game.SD strikes me as a team that is either too secure, or too stupid to fear the Pats. I think it could be a great game this weekend.

Henne just threw for 400+ on that D. Meanwhile they're now basically playing a 4-3 with Wilfork, Hayensworth et. al. up front. I don't know that the LBs are that great, but it still seems like your best bet is to pass a bit more than run against them. Norv worked both RBs into the pass game well last week, so the touches should still be there unless BB decides to play his back 7 tight for some reason (seems like a bad idea, given their druthers the Chargers love to go deep). Matthews is a better bet for 100 yards, Tolbert is a better bet for a TD.

I'm going with the assumption that this will be a shoot-out, and that the running game will gradually fall by the wayside. I didn't watch the whole SD game last week, but from what I did see, Tolbert was in for most of the passing downs, which 'splains why his receptions were so high. But once he catches the ball, he doesn't do a lot* unless he's already in the secondary (his TD reception, for example). Matthews, however, looks like a dangerous weapon once he catches the ball, even when he's not already in the secondary, and that ultimately could play into a bigger role for this game if SD is playing catch-up.That's my quandary.

*= YAC for Tolbert last week were 60, Mathews 69. Similar, but again, it's easier to avoid DBs than it is LBs and DBs.

 

[PhantomJB]

I own both and am starting Tolbert over Mathews.

While I'm with the prognosticators who claim Mathews will eventually eclipse Tolbert in that offense, I think it's much farther off than any of the Mathews supporters will admit. Until Mathews can outproduce Tolbert (FF-wise) for two straight weeks, I'm riding the guy who's gotten 14 touchdowns in his last 16 games vs. trying to guess which game Mathews will break out.

 

[FF Ninja]

Is it just me or does it seem that while Tolbert is playing on 3rd downs and catching dump offs, Mathews is getting the designed RB receptions that gave Sproles his (limited) value? Given how well he did, I expect these plays to increase leading to some pretty solid yardage totals each week with the upside of a long TD.

Really looking forward to the next couple weeks. I think the tune will really change once Tolbert goes consecutive weeks w/o a TD. With Gates, VJ, and Mathews, they will have games where the ball is never down inside the 5.

 

[sm8680]

Last night my trade went through. I gave up Mike Tolbert(9th round) for Ryan Matthews(4th round). People in my league think I'm crazy. So many people love Mike Tolbert's bull dozer style running game, the fact that he is the goal line back, the fact that he catches passes, better blocker, tough as nails, and that he was not drafted. Don't get me wrong...... I love all of the above concerning Mike T.

But any chance that I can trade a known quantity that everyone feels comfortable with such as Mike Tolbert especially when I get emails such as Percy Harvin for Mike T or what do you want for Mike T. Ryan Matthews has shown glimpses of what he can do and he has been injured but he has a much higher ceiling then Mike T will ever have. Who has the ability (HAS) to be an elite RB then I'm going to shot for the moon and hope that he brings the title to me. The way I look at it is that I'm playing with house money anytime I can trade a pick from the 8th slot or higher for someone elses much higher draft pick.

Some backgraound here. I had the 3rd draft slot in a 12 team snake draft. My first pick was Ray Rice, 2nd pick Peyton Hillis, 5th round pick Mark Ingram, 9th round Mike Tolbert, 10th Jonathan Stewart, and 12th round Ben Tate.

So for the Mike Tolbert fans. Mike is currently ahead in points and the empiracle evidence will play out and by the end of the year this could end up like a Michael Bush - Darren McFadden or an unhappy me.

Anyways good luck to everyone in their leagues.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Last night my trade went through. I gave up Mike Tolbert(9th round) for Ryan Matthews(4th round). People in my league think I'm crazy. So many people love Mike Tolbert's bull dozer style running game, the fact that he is the goal line back, the fact that he catches passes, better blocker, tough as nails, and that he was not drafted. Don't get me wrong...... I love all of the above concerning Mike T. But any chance that I can trade a known quantity that everyone feels comfortable with such as Mike Tolbert especially when I get emails such as Percy Harvin for Mike T or what do you want for Mike T. Ryan Matthews has shown glimpses of what he can do and he has been injured but he has a much higher ceiling then Mike T will ever have. Who has the ability (HAS) to be an elite RB then I'm going to shot for the moon and hope that he brings the title to me. The way I look at it is that I'm playing with house money anytime I can trade a pick from the 8th slot or higher for someone elses much higher draft pick.Some backgraound here. I had the 3rd draft slot in a 12 team snake draft. My first pick was Ray Rice, 2nd pick Peyton Hillis, 5th round pick Mark Ingram, 9th round Mike Tolbert, 10th Jonathan Stewart, and 12th round Ben Tate.So for the Mike Tolbert fans. Mike is currently ahead in points and the empiracle evidence will play out and by the end of the year this could end up like a Michael Bush - Darren McFadden or an unhappy me. Anyways good luck to everyone in their leagues.

That is an EXCELLENT trade.

 

[Mash]

Is it just me or does it seem that while Tolbert is playing on 3rd downs and catching dump offs, Mathews is getting the designed RB receptions that gave Sproles his (limited) value? Given how well he did, I expect these plays to increase leading to some pretty solid yardage totals each week with the upside of a long TD.Really looking forward to the next couple weeks. I think the tune will really change once Tolbert goes consecutive weeks w/o a TD. With Gates, VJ, and Mathews, they will have games where the ball is never down inside the 5.

As a poster alluded to earlier, he has 14 TDs in the last 16 games. You would be hard pressed to find many other RBs that have been that consistent. In fact, I don't think he's gone more than 1 week without a TD since the beginning of last season. I seriously doubt his role changes much because as impressive as Mathews has looked, Tolbert is very effective at getting the ball into the endzone.

 

[NeverEnough]

I own both and am starting Tolbert over Mathews.While I'm with the prognosticators who claim Mathews will eventually eclipse Tolbert in that offense, I think it's much farther off than any of the Mathews supporters will admit. Until Mathews can outproduce Tolbert (FF-wise) for two straight weeks, I'm riding the guy who's gotten 14 touchdowns in his last 16 games vs. trying to guess which game Mathews will break out.

I own both as well. I may start both & bench Ingram.

 

[dboysrock94]

Norv turner said mathews had his best game as a pro and looked very explosive........this coming from the head coach makes me think mathews will get a little more snaps than he did half way through the season mathews will be getting the bulk is my prediction could be wrong tho

 

[Mash]

Do you guys think that no matter how well Mathews does, he will have a hard time taking snaps away from Tolbert because Norv is trying to decrease the chances that Mathews wears down/gets hurt?

 

[FF Ninja]

Is it just me or does it seem that while Tolbert is playing on 3rd downs and catching dump offs, Mathews is getting the designed RB receptions that gave Sproles his (limited) value? Given how well he did, I expect these plays to increase leading to some pretty solid yardage totals each week with the upside of a long TD.Really looking forward to the next couple weeks. I think the tune will really change once Tolbert goes consecutive weeks w/o a TD. With Gates, VJ, and Mathews, they will have games where the ball is never down inside the 5.

As a poster alluded to earlier, he has 14 TDs in the last 16 games. You would be hard pressed to find many other RBs that have been that consistent. In fact, I don't think he's gone more than 1 week without a TD since the beginning of last season. I seriously doubt his role changes much because as impressive as Mathews has looked, Tolbert is very effective at getting the ball into the endzone.

I'm not saying his role will change. He could easily remain the goal line back and still not see any TDs if there are no goal line carries to be had in a game. Last year was pretty amazing as far as consistency goes in the TD department. I can't imagine it playing out like that again. He had a two week stretch in which he had 5 yards rushing or less and a TD per game. In fact he had a 5 week stretch with only 114 yards and still managed 4 TDs. The chances of him scoring a TD on 10 carries/gm isn't going to be very high. He will need to get at least two tries a game inside the 3. He is going to have quite a few weeks under 10 points.Rather than feast or famine, I imagine that in a few weeks it will be famine or average for Tolbert and average or feast for Mathews.They had an even split in carries in week 1. That split will either stay put or change in Mathews' favor going forward. Can anyone imagine a scenario (other than injury) in which we see 18 carries for Tolbert and 6 for Mathews in week 8? Yet how easy is it to imagine Mathews with 18 and Tolbert with 6? Tolbert owners are simply praying to delay the inevitable. And maybe it stays 50/50 for 2011. Excellent play on their part. Just risky.

 

[[icon]]

Henne just threw for 400+ on that D. Meanwhile they're now basically playing a 4-3 with Wilfork, Hayensworth et. al. up front. I don't know that the LBs are that great, but it still seems like your best bet is to pass a bit more than run against them. Norv worked both RBs into the pass game well last week, so the touches should still be there unless BB decides to play his back 7 tight for some reason (seems like a bad idea, given their druthers the Chargers love to go deep). Matthews is a better bet for 100 yards, Tolbert is a better bet for a TD.

FYI about 200 of that was in garbage time vs a Pats D playing in prevent.

 

[Gr00vus]

Henne just threw for 400+ on that D. Meanwhile they're now basically playing a 4-3 with Wilfork, Hayensworth et. al. up front. I don't know that the LBs are that great, but it still seems like your best bet is to pass a bit more than run against them. Norv worked both RBs into the pass game well last week, so the touches should still be there unless BB decides to play his back 7 tight for some reason (seems like a bad idea, given their druthers the Chargers love to go deep). Matthews is a better bet for 100 yards, Tolbert is a better bet for a TD.

FYI about 200 of that was in garbage time vs a Pats D playing in prevent.

FYI I saw the game. 112 of Henne's yards came after Welker's TD at 5:57 left in the 4th quarter, which put the Pats up 21. Considering that the reason Welker's had 99 yards to work with for the TD was because Miami turned it over on downs at the NE 1 when down by 14, I feel comfortable that the other 300 yards Henne put up weren't in "garbage time."

 

[houston]

new opinion piece from Acee: My link

Odd that Schefter would retweet this as some sort of breaking news as it really is just a writer's opinion.

 

[Saint]

Schefter's exact tweet: RT @evansilva: Chargers RB Mike Tolbert will get more playing time than Ryan Mathews "for the foreseeable future," per SD Union-Trib.

 

[HPD]

Shouldn't this thread include some consideration of the relative injury risks between the two? Mathews has shown e much more likely to lose significant playing time.

 

[[icon]]

Henne just threw for 400+ on that D. Meanwhile they're now basically playing a 4-3 with Wilfork, Hayensworth et. al. up front. I don't know that the LBs are that great, but it still seems like your best bet is to pass a bit more than run against them. Norv worked both RBs into the pass game well last week, so the touches should still be there unless BB decides to play his back 7 tight for some reason (seems like a bad idea, given their druthers the Chargers love to go deep). Matthews is a better bet for 100 yards, Tolbert is a better bet for a TD.

FYI about 200 of that was in garbage time vs a Pats D playing in prevent.

FYI I saw the game. 112 of Henne's yards came after Welker's TD at 5:57 left in the 4th quarter, which put the Pats up 21. Considering that the reason Welker's had 99 yards to work with for the TD was because Miami turned it over on downs at the NE 1 when down by 14, I feel comfortable that the other 300 yards Henne put up weren't in "garbage time."

... and another 90 yards were on the previous drive... which started at the 8min mark of the 4th quarter with NE up by 2 touchdowns. So around HALF his yardage was very late game against a NE defense playing in a bend don't break formation... particularly the last 110 of those yards. I watched the game too... just like I do every pats game. Sorry if the term "garbage time" set off your alarms but you know what I'm talking about. That was a very "Safe" defense they shifted into. In the first 85% of the game he posted about 200 yards.

 

[Raider Nation]

Ryan Mathews... now with red zone looks!

 

[shadyridr]

of course cuz i benched him lol. but honestly i think both him and tolbert are solid rb2s

 

[Raider Nation]

Tolbert stuffed at the 1. Twice.

Changing of the guard.

 

[moderated]

SD has to start playing Mathews more, Tolbert just isn't a good runner.

 

[NYRAGE]

SD has to start playing Mathews more, Tolbert just isn't a good runner.

There were only two blockers knocked backwards on that goal-line carry.

 

[Raider Nation]

SD has to start playing Mathews more, Tolbert just isn't a good runner.

There were only two blockers knocked backwards on that goal-line carry.

Mathews goes over the top and scores on that... his cape flowing in the cool autumn breeze the whole time.