Irish Chaos
Footballguy
tolbert is awful.
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Ryan Mathews & Mike Tolbert, RBs, San Diego Chargers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jason Wood
- Start date
That didn't last long. So far we are at 9 rushes for 10 yards and a fumble for the workhorse. 12 for 64 and a touchdown for the change of pace back.
RhymesMcJuice
Footballguy
Mathews better learn to block.
Um. You forgot a little detail. Tolbert has 8 receptions for 73 yards. Other than the one 8-yard run, Mathews doesn't sniff the red zone. Still RBBC all day long and a toss-up who's going to end up with the better day, especially in PPR.
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Thunderlips
Footballguy
Can't get in from the the 1 and a costly fumble........Tolbert isn't exactly helping his cause.
Keep dreamin pal. Watched the entire game and Mathews looks awesome. When SD realizes (And they will real soon) that Mathews can do everything and much more than Tolbert ... Mathews will be a top 5 - 10 RB.If you r watching the game it's night and day. Tolbert looks really really slow ... Mathews looks strong, fast and elusive.
This is 2 weeks in a row so it's comin.
Um. 8 for 73 vs. 7 for 62That is close enough for me when the rushing numbers are night and day.
RhymesMcJuice
Footballguy
No, when the Chargers are comfortable with Mathews protecting their #1 asset then Mathews will be a top 10 RB. Until then the plodder will be in the game.
Did you watch the game? That time is now
Got no problem with the facts. But your post was incomplete and also implies that Mathews was having a monster overall game vs. Tolbert. That simply wasn't true and doesn't change the fact that this is a full-blown RBBC with Tolbert getting the majority of goal line carries and has a heavy 3rd down role.Full disclosure: I own them both and would like nothing better than to see Mathews overtake Tolbert but no amount of wishing will make it true.
Mr Rodgers neighborhood
Footballguy
Tolbert is a good swiss army knife. Mathews can be a workhorse top 10 back. Mathews talent will shine through during the season and Tolbert will be what he is... A Le'Ron McClain type of back.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Can't wait to see how many pages this thread gets up to by late December.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I have him locked up for five years.
Now if Norv would just move fatty Tolbert to nose tackle.thekidd2009
Footballguy
I own Tolbert and am very worried about Matthews. I watched most of the game and Matthews looked a hell of alot better than Tolbert. I was shocked Norv didn't realize it and feed Matthews the ball. I'm going to try and trade Tolbert + for Matthews but I doubt the guy will accept it. I think the writings on the wall...
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Posts about to slow waaaaay down as this situation becomes more clear. Hope you Tolbert owners sold high.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Well, Norv isn't the brightest guy around, but I'm hopeful he'll figure this out eventually. Maybe one of his assistants will let him know.
MSULions
Footballguy
Matthews is simply a better running back who is far more dangerous when he touches the ball. The fact that Tolbert couldn't get in from the 1 yard line more than once pretty much puts an end to any argument - that's the one thing he should be able to do...but he's little more than a bowling ball on a bad ankle. Matthews has great speed and vision and should be getting the ball a minimum of 20 times a game. But then again, Norv has never shown himself to be terribly good and seeing such things.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Didn't sell high and wasn't planning too because I'd like to have both. I did balk on a potential trade to get Mathews relatively cheap though this past week. I was gambling on him maybe not doing that well against NE in NE so I could get him even cheaper. I'm afraid I may have screwed up.
Mr Rodgers neighborhood
Footballguy
Disagree about Round 1. Mathews out performed Tolbert, but Tolbert was given opportunities to score. Mathews was not. We did see Mathews in those situations today and he looked good.
Mr Rodgers neighborhood
Footballguy
Ugh. I benched Mathews for Tolbert based completely on Kevin Acee's report about Tolbert getting the bulk for the next few weeks. Never again Kevin... Never again. But hey, at least I started Gates today...
Tau837
Footballguy
If we're talking about fantasy points, Tolbert won round 1. But if we're talking about who played better, Mathews has played better in both games so far.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
If Mathews is on the "downgrade" list again, I'm demanding a subscription refund.
I sold high on Tolbert after week 1 for Ryan Matthews. If someone trades Ryan Matthews for Mike Tolbert in week 2 they deserve to be fleeced/tarred and feathered. The opposite side of this would be a shark move. I watched the whole game yesterday. I took 2 things away from that game. Ryan Matthews showed me that he can be a top 10 back in this league especially with his acceleration and willingness to take a hit and/or give one. The chargers lost the game more so than the Patriots winning this game. I see Tolbert's value dropping as Ryan's ascends. River's you look pissed.....
Prior to making this deal people in both of my leagues thought I was losing my way in fantasy football. That I no longer had the touch. I love being ridiculed hopefully I'm right about this one.
Prior to making this deal people in both of my leagues thought I was losing my way in fantasy football. That I no longer had the touch. I love being ridiculed hopefully I'm right about this one.
They will both probably have big games in week 3 vs. KC. Although, given Tolbert's poor performance at the goal line, it would be great to see them give Mathews a shot this week. At least they'd have the option of boucing it to the outside if there isn't anything open up the middle.
The Kuhn
Footballguy
In regards to Tolbert not getting the first 4th and goal in, it looked like he also tripped over one of his own teammate's back legs while trying to get around the right side.
I think as long as SD's WR corps remains banged up (why does this keep happening?), both of these guys are viable as RB2 or flex options in PPR leagues. If you're down on Tolbert, wait until after KC and sell high.
I think as long as SD's WR corps remains banged up (why does this keep happening?), both of these guys are viable as RB2 or flex options in PPR leagues. If you're down on Tolbert, wait until after KC and sell high.
No, my post was simply focusing on the ground game. 12/64/1 is by no means a monster game - I never intended to imply that. That 12/61/1 simply shows that Mathews was effective while 9/10/0 plus a fumble is ineffective. Even though I've got Tolbert in a league and Mathews in another, I'd like to see Mathews get his shot to catch passes and run at the goal line. He could be elite in that offense. Tolbert, at best, is a guy in a great situation. Mathews would be a great player in a great situation. Week 3 is going to be very interesting, coming on the heels of the statement about Tolbert getting the majority of the snaps plus Mathews handily outperforming him while getting a few more touches. It is really perfect timing for Mathews owners. Tolbert's performance and fumble opened up a chance for the coaching staff to lean on Mathews on a week against a very poor defenese. I'm hoping to see a week 17 vs. Denver type of performance so that they feel comfortable with him as their playmaker going forward and never look back to the plodder except to provide a breather here and there.
RhymesMcJuice
Footballguy
The problem is that the Chargers pass a lot and it would be very obvious if the only time Mathews was in the game was on running plays. I have very high hopes for him but he needs to learn to block if he's going to fulfill his potential.
Agreed and appreciate the clarification.This situation reminds me a lot of last year in KC with J.Charles/T.Jones. Norv appears to have similar stubbornness with Tolbert as Haley did with Jones. In fact, there was a clear "changing of the guard" opportunity after Tolbert's fumble and yet Turner went with him with the first two plays on the next series. Maybe that will change as he trusts Mathews more but it just seems a little further off and more complex than many posters realize, IMO.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I'm a Charger homer first, Mathews backer second. As such, I was glad Norv went right back to Tolbert after the fumble. Regardless of the size of his role, the Chargers are going to need Tolbert's contributions this year, and putting him right back on the field and giving him an opportunity to make up for his mistake is the right play in the long term.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Norv might be reluctant to load Mathews up, but the Haley situation was straight up absurd. I can understand not wanting to use up JC, but to keep giving the ball to 3.7 ypc Thomas Jones is nuts. I really doubt there are any other coaches in the NFL that are that stubborn. Norv is a big fan of the one back approach so I could definitely see him going that way as he gains comfort in Mathews or if Tolbert forces his hand with further lackluster play.
I think Mathews owners would be content with some goal line looks. Last year they only averaged 26 rushes per game. So far they've had 24 and 22. Realistically, 15-18 rushes and 5 catches might be all we'll get, but as long as 2-3 are at the goal line, I'm good with that.
I think Mathews owners would be content with some goal line looks. Last year they only averaged 26 rushes per game. So far they've had 24 and 22. Realistically, 15-18 rushes and 5 catches might be all we'll get, but as long as 2-3 are at the goal line, I'm good with that.
FavreAndAwayAnIdiot
Footballguy
Very true. However... It's time the Chargers/Norv stop trying to force Tolbert into situations where Mathews will excel. Keep Tolbert for short yardage, but Mathews is clearly the better guy for nearly everything else. This red-zone/passing down thing that Tolbert gets doesn't make sense after what we've been able to see from Mathews after 2 games.
Tau837
Footballguy
Well, Tolbert is at 2.1 ypc this year, compared to Mathews' 4.5 ypc. Some of that could be because Tolbert has been used more often in short yardage but not all of it. Similarly, Tolbert is at 7.7 ypr, compared to Mathews' 13.5 ypr. It's time for Mathews to get the bulk of the touches to see if he can maintain his performance with a heavier workload.
that's kind of the part that drives me crazy. Norv has shown consistently in the past he will ride a work horse RB and make them fantasy gold. Emmitt, Stephen Davis, Lamont Jordan, Frank Gore. I bought in for Mathews in my dynasty and Norv decides to hitch his wagon to to a 2RB system. I have a feeling he'll change back soon.
strong
Footballguy
the chargers' offense is good enough that mathews doesn't need to be the bell cow in order to be a success. he was typically a fourth round pick, but currently (in my touchdown heavy league) he's the 12th ranked RB. he's 10th in standard scoring PPR leagues. i think most mathews' owners would be happy with his current production even if it means tolbert continues to spell him and keep him fresh. that said, i'm sure the coaching staff has discussed post-week 2 that if they'd gotten the ball to mathews five or six more times instead of tolbert, they would have had a better chance to win. sooner rather than later, the chargers will lean heavily on mathews. right now, he's running with that special "extra gear" that is impossible to keep off the field. at RB2 i have gore/fjackson/tolbert and i think i'm going to start mathews most games going forward.
fightingillini
Footballguy
This.Tolbert has always been able to punch it in near the goalline.....this time he ran over his own guy and fell short at the one. Every RB has been stuffed in close at some point. I wouldn't discredit Tolbert that much because of it.That said, Mathews looked fantastic, great acceleration, balance and vision and showed that he can catch the ball. Definitely looked like a franchise back. I see no reason why he shouldn't get the ball more. But anyone who thinks Tolbert should just be shoved aside is wrong. Tolbert is still going to be a big part of the offense. SD is very thin at WR after VJax, so the RB is the 3rd option in the passing game. With Rivers chucking the ball 35+ times a game, the backs are going to get their share of receptions.If I am a betting man, Mathews gets 60%, Tolbert 40% of the carries, both active in the passing game, while Tolbert gets more short yardage and goalline work. Tolbert will be a mediocre #2RB but a great #3RB, while Mathews should be a solid #2RB with #1RB upside.After yesterday's game, Mathews' dynasty price just went up a decent amount.
fightingillini
Footballguy
The NFL is a different league than when Emmitt Smith was dominating the league. It's all about the passing attacks and rotating multiple backs given the situation. How many RBs now get 20+ touches a game on a consistent basis? Maybe 12.Against opponents that struggle with a big power back, Tolbert will likely play a bigger role. Against opponents that you can beat with speed and acceleration, Mathews will be the lead guy. And I suspect Mathews will be the lead guy more often that Tolbert going forward, but I think it will depend a lot on the matchup and how SD wants to attack the defense.
Point taken, but looking beyond Emmitt, he made guys like Lamont Jordan a RB1 with running/catching. I'm quite sure he could do the same with Mathews. The skill set is there. I do see the value of rotating RBs though. At this rate though it seems fumbling or injury might be the only thing that changes it.
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