Scoring help please, D/ST FL? (1 Viewer)

[hip80]

In my CBS league, it says FL includes special teams plays. However, when D. Jackson fumbled a punt, no points were lost by PHI D/ST. Anybody have any experience with this kind of play and CBS? I sent the following to the help center:

This info is from the official NFL gametracker:

FL - Fumble Lost, Including ST plays -2 points

Fumbles FUM LOST REC YDS

D. Jackson 1 1 0 0

4-15-CHI 40 (14:53) 4-B.Maynard punts 38 yards to PHI 22, Center-65-P.Mannelly. 10-D.Jackson MUFFS catch, RECOVERED by CHI-53-N.Roach at PHI 24. 53-N.Roach to PHI 24 for no gain (50-T.Daniels).

Why did this not score as a FL for Philly D/ST? Is D. Jackson considered to have never had possesion? D. Jackson is charged with a FL according to NFL stats, but he did not lose points as an individual player either. Please explain.

Thanks!

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

To me, a MUFFED punt is not the same as a lost fumble on a return.

That was a muffed punt in my book... can't fumble if you never had possession.

 

[dagwood]

In my CBS league, it says FL includes special teams plays. However, when D. Jackson fumbled a punt, no points were lost by PHI D/ST. Anybody have any experience with this kind of play and CBS? I sent the following to the help center:This info is from the official NFL gametracker:FL - Fumble Lost, Including ST plays -2 points Fumbles FUM LOST REC YDS D. Jackson 1 1 0 0 4-15-CHI 40 (14:53) 4-B.Maynard punts 38 yards to PHI 22, Center-65-P.Mannelly. 10-D.Jackson MUFFS catch, RECOVERED by CHI-53-N.Roach at PHI 24. 53-N.Roach to PHI 24 for no gain (50-T.Daniels). Why did this not score as a FL for Philly D/ST? Is D. Jackson considered to have never had possesion? D. Jackson is charged with a FL according to NFL stats, but he did not lose points as an individual player either. Please explain. Thanks!

muffed punt is not a fumble....for NFL statistics purposes...

 

[gheemony]

NFL Gamecenter shows that Jackson has a fumble lost, but CBS doesn't deduct points for a fumble.

Aside: I'm down 75.55 to 75.6, and my opponent has Jackson. Let's see if it matters.

 

[hip80]

exactly, even al michaels and the telecast (ala a graphic that said FUMBLE) just called it a fumble, NFL stats show Jackson w/ FL... wtf?? I'm really interested to hear what CBS help has to say, or to see if it updates tomorrow.

thanks for your thoughts, good luck gheemony

 

[hip80]

bump

any more thoughts?

 

[Novice2]

Always thought a muffed punt was a fumble. Thats the way MFL always scored it. No experiance with cbs so i dunno.

 

[Twilight]

Possibly because in every scoring system I've seen, Team D/ST don't have a fumbles lost penalty. Unless your rules specifically say Team D's are subject, they shouldn't be penalized.

 

[hip80]

yeah it's one of those free CBS leagues, and rules specifically say FL - Fumble Lost, Including ST plays -2 points. anyway, hopefully the 2 points won't matter but the differential right now is one point

 

[Twilight]

yeah it's one of those free CBS leagues, and rules specifically say FL - Fumble Lost, Including ST plays -2 points. anyway, hopefully the 2 points won't matter but the differential right now is one point

But under what players is the FL for. DeSean Jackson should get the -2. Philly D/ST should not, generally.

 

[PosterNutBag]

A muffed punt is a fumble lost, but I have never played in a league that penalized the D/ST for this.

If I remember correctly from past seasons when I was on Sportsline, it clearly says at the bottom of the live scoring screen that special teams fumble recoveries WILL NOT show up in the live scoring window. You'll have to wait until the website gets updated overnight for that fumble to show up in the scoring for the Chicago D/ST, who recovered the fumble.

 

[hip80]

that's two different stats, FL (fumble lost) and FR (fumble recovered). i'm interested in the FL by PHI D/ST

 

[PosterNutBag]

You must have missed the part of my post where I said that I have never played in a league that penalized a D/ST for a fumble lost (I should have added that I have NEVER seen a league penalize a D/ST for this either). As several have already surmised in this thread, the overwhelming majority of leagues do not penalize a D/ST for a fumble lost (it gets scored as 0 pts b/c league rules do not specifically address it). Check your league's rules. If it doesn't come right out and say that the D/ST loses 2 points for a fumble lost on a muffed punt or kickoff, then the Philadelphia D/ST should not be penalized in your league for it.

 

[OU#1]

CBS gave DeSean the FL in my league...

 

[PosterNutBag]

CBS gave DeSean the FL in my league...

I was just about to post that I just read the rules for the free CBS league and that this FL should definitely be credited to DeSean Jackson the way the rules are worded (even though the fumble occurred on special teams.The rules say the following:

Fumble Lost, including ST plays (FL) -2 points

 

[hip80]

You must have missed the part of my post where I said that I have never played in a league that penalized a D/ST for a fumble lost (I should have added that I have NEVER seen a league penalize a D/ST for this either). As several have already surmised in this thread, the overwhelming majority of leagues do not penalize a D/ST for a fumble lost (it gets scored as 0 pts b/c league rules do not specifically address it). Check your league's rules. If it doesn't come right out and say that the D/ST loses 2 points for a fumble lost on a muffed punt or kickoff, then the Philadelphia D/ST should not be penalized in your league for it.

you must have missed the part of my post where I listed that my leagues rules state (copied straight from the rules):FL - Fumble Lost, Including ST plays -2 pointsgranted, it seems strange, and i've never seen it either. but reading thru the rules at the beginning of the season, i saw this and wondered if it would ever come up. i think it came up this week, but who the hell knows...this is a free CBS league, so rules are out of anyone's control. i also noticed that CBS gave D. Jackson a FL as if it were an offensive play (I'm playing against him in another league).very confusing....

 

[hip80]

OK you have me looking at it differently now, thanks.

the including special teams PLAYS means including INDIVIDUAL players (who happen to play on special teams) and not team D/ST. It just so happens that this special teams player (D. Jackson) is also a player who a lot of people have on their roster as a WR, and now CBS has correctly scored the FL for anybody who started him at WR. For a long while, they had not scored it against him.

im sorry for all the confusion, it was just my incorrect interpretation of a rule that was not set by the commish in my league, but by the draft robot's buddy, rules robot.

thanks all for your input, it makes sense now.

 

[hip80]

Here's what CBS Help Center had to say:

Response (kayte) - 09/29/2008 12:34 PM

Fumbles Lost is an Individual statistic. Never, in the history of the NFL, has

a team gotten credit for a Fumble Lost. If an individual loses a fumble and he

is on your team, you will lose the points.

OK so I'm an idoit, I just read the rule wrong. At least they finally updated the individual player stats, as they had missed that.

 

[wudaben]

For a free league in which you accept the CBS rules that would be correct that this is a fumble but if you play in a customized league then this is one of those plays that can slip through the scoring cracks. In our league any D/ST play cannot be counted for or against an offensive player and Sportsline has incorrectly scored it in our league. If Jackson were to run back a punt for a TD and not get credit for it then he shouldn't get penalized for the fumble but you may have to take this to your leagues commish for an override.

 

[BaBastage]

Our CBS site scored it the same way -2 points to Jackson.

I wouldn't have expected the DST to be penalized.

But in leagues that don't provide return points to individuals - (like crediting a DTD to the DST a-la your regular CBS league instead of the player), then having one of your starters return kicks has no upside - only a downside as represented here. (Not to mention the injury risk.)

We may have to change that in our league next year.

 

[GregR_2]

Posted this in the other thread on this muff.

In MFL at least, muffs count as fumbles. However, you can set up your scoring system to only count fumbles (or fumbles lost) on offense, fumbles on defense, fumbles on special teams, rather than having to go with total fumbles.

So on MFL anyway, this shouldn't be a problem as you can set up your scoring system to work however you want.