Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (1 Viewer)

[Mr.Pack]

HA.

Jesse Jackson was there today.....

Jackson: Capitol protest "a real Martin Luther King moment"

 

[Mr.Pack]

I don't think there's a ton of opposition to the concept of reducing salaries for many or most public employees, including teachers. I think the concern with Walker's tactics is that he is stripping the unions of their ability to collectively bargain on any of the issues cba's typically address, other than pay. I'm not really sure how he is doing this, but that is how it is being reported - that the teachers' union (for example) can no longer bargain over things like sick pay, hours, vacation discipline, promotions, etc. That seems strange to me, even as a critic of the teachers union. Its also a concern that he has completely exempted the police and firefighters unions, claiming they have special status relating to public security. In Milwaukee, both of these unions were big Walker supporters last November, although I know that was not necessarily true across the state.

Agree with everything you've said. With Madison schools closing today (40% of teachers called in sick), expect to see many teachers and students at the capital today, haven't seen any news footage yet. It's interesting to see the public employee vs. private employee sentiment that is going on in the state. A couple months back there were a couple of articles in local papers pointing out the public employee benefit/pay packages and how they compare to private employees and it was slanted towards: the private employees are taking pay cuts and have to pay for benefits so the public should too. Will be interesting to see if this bill gets passed and if so, what ramifications there will be for those approving it. Many angry people in Wisconsin today.

Pathetic.They should be fired.

Yea, "We're here for the kids" is a load of

So who are you gonna replace them with if you fire them?

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

 

[Johnnymac]

They are extremely flush with cash right now. Where are the jobs?

Diamond Jim Doyle and the previous administration did pretty much everything they could to discourage companies from coming to Wisconsin. The tax climate here right now is awful. Walker is introducing measures to try and reverse that trend, and actually encourage company to come here, thus creating jobs.

What kind of jobs?

 

[Tiny Dancer]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

 

[StrikeS2k]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

Get rid of the unions and it can only go up. There are a lot of pretty crappy teachers out there due to tenure.

 

[Mr.Pack]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

When you are unionized it doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

When you are unionized it doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are.

This doesn't answer my question.

 

[Eric Stratton]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

When you are unionized it doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are.

This doesn't answer my question.

There is no way to answer that but it is very reasonable to expect many of those younger teachers to do quite well since they will be thankful to have a job and be motivated to do well.

 

[Workhorse]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

When you are unionized it doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are.

 

[Jackstraw]

Walker is ramming his legislation through ambush-style, on approximately 4 days notice for a 150 page bill than makes major changes to the employment status of thousands of people. He wants no discussion, explanation or debate.

Can't be debated if the legislators won't show up and do their jobs...Oh, and ramming huge legislation through one-sided without letting the opposition discuss or debate is the precedent now. Worked for Obamacare. Can't say it's unfair now that the shoe's on the other foot.

Health Care was "rammed through"? It took a whole year.

 

[Jackstraw]

I have a question. The Law the Governour suggests exempts law enforcement and fire. Why?

 

[Eric Stratton]

Walker is ramming his legislation through ambush-style, on approximately 4 days notice for a 150 page bill than makes major changes to the employment status of thousands of people. He wants no discussion, explanation or debate.

Can't be debated if the legislators won't show up and do their jobs...Oh, and ramming huge legislation through one-sided without letting the opposition discuss or debate is the precedent now. Worked for Obamacare. Can't say it's unfair now that the shoe's on the other foot.

Health Care was "rammed through"? It took a whole year.

 

[Mario Kart]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

When you are unionized it doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are.

This doesn't answer my question.

There is no way to answer that but it is very reasonable to expect many of those younger teachers to do quite well since they will be thankful to have a job and be motivated to do well.

If teachers are fired or let go because of this, I will be at the district office first thing the morning to tell them I can be at the school that same day. I will show up lessons in hand and ready to go.

 

[Mario Kart]

I have a question. The Law the Governour suggests exempts law enforcement and fire. Why?

This is the problem I have with this but I am willing to look the other way for now. Baby steps.

 

[Mr.Pack]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

When you are unionized it doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are.

This doesn't answer my question.

There is no way to answer that but it is very reasonable to expect many of those younger teachers to do quite well since they will be thankful to have a job and be motivated to do well.

 

[timschochet]

I have a question. The Law the Governour suggests exempts law enforcement and fire. Why?

Because they voted for him?

 

[cr8f]

It's Cairo in Wisconsin

More busses from around the state are driving down tomorrow but corporate funded out of state groups are coming in too.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

If teachers are fired or let go because of this, I will be at the district office first thing the morning to tell them I can be at the school that same day. I will show up lessons in hand and ready to go.

You're an unemployed teacher?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Walker is ramming his legislation through ambush-style, on approximately 4 days notice for a 150 page bill than makes major changes to the employment status of thousands of people. He wants no discussion, explanation or debate.

Can't be debated if the legislators won't show up and do their jobs...Oh, and ramming huge legislation through one-sided without letting the opposition discuss or debate is the precedent now. Worked for Obamacare. Can't say it's unfair now that the shoe's on the other foot.

Health Care was "rammed through"? It took a whole year.

Truth be told... it took decades.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

When you are unionized it doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are.

This doesn't answer my question.

There is no way to answer that but it is very reasonable to expect many of those younger teachers to do quite well since they will be thankful to have a job and be motivated to do well.

I think there's an easy way to answer it. Ask some principals that do teacher hiring. They're the ones seeing resumes and doing interviews. Is it their impression that there are loads of talented teachers out there on the sidelines who would be willing to take the jobs from existing teachers? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

 

[urbanhack]

More busses from around the state are driving down tomorrow but corporate funded out of state groups are coming in too.

Neat.

 

[RCon]

I have a question. The Law the Governour suggests exempts law enforcement and fire. Why?

Because they voted for him?

Likely, although I'd suggest the governor's strategy here has an element of "divide and conquer" to it.

 

[Mr.Pack]

I have a question. The Law the Governour suggests exempts law enforcement and fire. Why?

Because they voted for him?

Thanks for playing.Here's your consolation prize. Now go brush up on your facts son.

 

[RCon]

I think there's an easy way to answer it. Ask some principals that do teacher hiring. They're the ones seeing resumes and doing interviews. Is it their impression that there are loads of talented teachers out there on the sidelines who would be willing to take the jobs from existing teachers? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

What makes you think that?

 

[Mr.Pack]

There are plenty of unemployed teachers out there. You should probably know this before you post.

What's the quality of the unemployed ones compared to the ones that are employed?

When you are unionized it doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are.

There is no way to answer that but it is very reasonable to expect many of those younger teachers to do quite well since they will be thankful to have a job and be motivated to do well.

I think there's an easy way to answer it. Ask some principals that do teacher hiring. They're the ones seeing resumes and doing interviews. Is it their impression that there are loads of talented teachers out there on the sidelines who would be willing to take the jobs from existing teachers? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

Really?Why's that?

 

[Tiny Dancer]

I think there's an easy way to answer it. Ask some principals that do teacher hiring. They're the ones seeing resumes and doing interviews. Is it their impression that there are loads of talented teachers out there on the sidelines who would be willing to take the jobs from existing teachers? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

What makes you think that?

Anecdotal evidence. My wife used to be a teacher and is in education. I briefly flirted with the idea of teaching before I decided my family couldn't afford it. My mom was in education for many years. My impression is that principals settle for less-than-stellar teaching candidates because its the best they can get far more often than they are put in the situation of having too many great applicants and not enough jobs.

 

[Eric Stratton]

I think there's an easy way to answer it. Ask some principals that do teacher hiring. They're the ones seeing resumes and doing interviews. Is it their impression that there are loads of talented teachers out there on the sidelines who would be willing to take the jobs from existing teachers? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

What makes you think that?

Anecdotal evidence. My wife used to be a teacher and is in education. I briefly flirted with the idea of teaching before I decided my family couldn't afford it. My mom was in education for many years. My impression is that principals settle for less-than-stellar teaching candidates because its the best they can get far more often than they are put in the situation of having too many great applicants and not enough jobs.

Did you read the article that was posted? Many of the unemployed teachers are young and newly out of school. They aren't getting postitions because there aren't enough openings. There many young unemployed teachers just waiting for a chance.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I think there's an easy way to answer it. Ask some principals that do teacher hiring. They're the ones seeing resumes and doing interviews. Is it their impression that there are loads of talented teachers out there on the sidelines who would be willing to take the jobs from existing teachers? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

What makes you think that?

Anecdotal evidence. My wife used to be a teacher and is in education. I briefly flirted with the idea of teaching before I decided my family couldn't afford it. My mom was in education for many years. My impression is that principals settle for less-than-stellar teaching candidates because its the best they can get far more often than they are put in the situation of having too many great applicants and not enough jobs.

You don't think Tenure causes teachers to stagnate over time and become less effective than they used to be?

 

[Tiny Dancer]

My impression is that principals settle for less-than-stellar teaching candidates because its the best they can get far more often than they are put in the situation of having too many great applicants and not enough jobs.

Did you read the article that was posted?

No. Which post is it in?

 

[cr8f]

A brief history, Is this what they want to go back to?1963: Congress passes law mandating equal pay for women. 1913: Strike in RI to obtain a minimum wage for textile workers. 3 killed. 240,000 strike. 1919: Union organizer Fannie Sellins gunned down by co. guards in PA. The right to collective bargaining cost lives. 1917: US Supreme Court approves the 8 hour day act. You can thank the unions. 1914: Ford Motor raises basic wage from $2.40 for a 9 hour day to $5 for an 8 hour day. 1909: NY Shirtwaist strike of 20,000 1911: Triangle Shirtwaist Fire kills 147 trapped NY workers, mostly women & girls.1886: As 16k protest the 10 hour work day in #WI the state militia shoots into the crowd, 7 dead, one a child. 1851: 2 railroad strikers shot dead by NY state militia. 1835: Children in Paterson, NJ silk mills strike for an 11 hour work day, 6 days a week. Yes, children. 1825: Carpenters in Boston strike for a 10-hour work day.

And you complain about the conservatives' scare tactics regularly? Get some perspective.

I complain about lies, this is union history. People suffered greatly fighting powerful companies and I'm not convinced we no longer need them. When corporations have all the power abuses will usually follow. I'm not in a union and was only in one once, a weak one that took our money but rarely did any good.

 

[Road Warriors]

Another story out today

A Jan. 31 memo from the Legislative Fiscal Bureau estimates the state will actually finish the fiscal year on June 30 with a $56 million surplus. That is $54 million more than state administrators estimated and far more than the $137 million in red ink that Darling and Vos refer to.

Neither Vos, R-Rochester, nor Darling, R-River Hills, responded to requests for comment for this report, but those accounting differences have Democrats claiming Republicans are overstating the depth of the problem to push a hard-right agenda and break public worker unions.

"In our conversations with the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, it has become blatantly evident Governor Walker has manifested this fiscal crisis as a Trojan horse in order to enact unfair public policy in the name of fixing the budget," says state Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Madison.

Scot Ross of the left-leaning group One Wisconsin Now went a step further, calling the Walker plan a "handout in special interest spending to his corporate pals."

Ross was referring to $117.2 million in tax breaks approved by the Republican-controlled Legislature in January. Those items making health savings accounts tax deductible, tax deductions for businesses that relocate and tax exclusions for hiring new employees.

Ross and others have said those tax breaks alone have created the shortfall through the end of this budget cycle that Darling and Vos have cited. But the $117.2 million figure cited by the Fiscal Bureau refers to the cost of those tax breaks over the next 2.5 years, not just the next few months.

Going forward, it is clear Wisconsin has some serious budget issues to face. Estimates say the state is facing anywhere from a $3.1 billion to $3.6 billion deficit in the upcoming two-year budget cycle.

That amount represents about 13 percent of total annual state spending, according to Andrew Reschovsky, professor of public affairs and applied economics at UW-Madison.

"The short answer is that we are arguably in a crisis ... but the crisis is the large size of the fiscal 2012 and 2013 budget gap, not the 2011 gap, which is relatively modest," he says.

What, you mean things that actually might help create new jobs? It is simply amazing to me how Liberals want to vilify corporations, while failing to comprehend that they are the job creators.

They are extremely flush with cash right now. Where are the jobs?

Corporations are in business for the profit of the business. Having cash now does not mean they should spend it hiring if the increased production does not provide ROI. Tax incentives for hiring lowers the bar for the corporation costs for hiring, and should provide for some incremental hires in the private sector. Why would creating an incentive for private business ( the true creators of sustainable jobs ) to hire new workers be a negative?

 

[Eric Stratton]

I think there's an easy way to answer it. Ask some principals that do teacher hiring. They're the ones seeing resumes and doing interviews. Is it their impression that there are loads of talented teachers out there on the sidelines who would be willing to take the jobs from existing teachers? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

Many New Teachers In Oregon Can't Find Jobs

Quality Teachers Can't Find Jobs

New Jersey Grads In Search of Teaching Jobs

Tough Job Market for Teachers

 

[Tiny Dancer]

Anecdotal evidence. My wife used to be a teacher and is in education. I briefly flirted with the idea of teaching before I decided my family couldn't afford it. My mom was in education for many years. My impression is that principals settle for less-than-stellar teaching candidates because its the best they can get far more often than they are put in the situation of having too many great applicants and not enough jobs.

You don't think Tenure causes teachers to stagnate over time and become less effective than they used to be?

I think there are some old teachers that do a crappy job. And I agree that the really bad teachers should get fired. I just question it when people want to get rid of a huge chunk of the teaching force. My impression is that there aren't all that many great teachers out there to replace them.But there's some article I'm supposed to read so maybe I'll feel differently once someone shows it to me.

 

[Slapdash]

They are underpaid relative to what similar employees make in the private market, as I showed earlier.

Then, to quote Chris Christie, "You don't have to do it anymore." Find another job in the private market where you can make more money and deal with even more violtile working conditions when it comes to raises bonuses and benefits. Sorry. I have no sympathy or empathy for public union members on that front. It sucks that they got sold a bill of goods that couldn't be backed up. It happens to everyone and they aren't immune.

You're right, they don't have to keep doing it anymore. I bet the most skilled will leave and our education system will continue to fall. This doesn't matter though, at it is ancillary to my point which you keep cutting out when you quote me. I don't care about you or Chris Christie moralizing about how tough some folks in the private sector have it and how that is justification for this. I just care about the workers rights that are being curtailed with a manufactured crisis in this case.

 

[Eric Stratton]

Anecdotal evidence. My wife used to be a teacher and is in education. I briefly flirted with the idea of teaching before I decided my family couldn't afford it. My mom was in education for many years. My impression is that principals settle for less-than-stellar teaching candidates because its the best they can get far more often than they are put in the situation of having too many great applicants and not enough jobs.

You don't think Tenure causes teachers to stagnate over time and become less effective than they used to be?

I think there are some old teachers that do a crappy job. And I agree that the really bad teachers should get fired. I just question it when people want to get rid of a huge chunk of the teaching force. My impression is that there aren't all that many great teachers out there to replace them.But there's some article I'm supposed to read so maybe I'll feel differently once someone shows it to me.

Do you need someone to hold your hand too when you go to the bathroom? Is that hard to look at the previous page?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

They are underpaid relative to what similar employees make in the private market, as I showed earlier.

Then, to quote Chris Christie, "You don't have to do it anymore." Find another job in the private market where you can make more money and deal with even more violtile working conditions when it comes to raises bonuses and benefits. Sorry. I have no sympathy or empathy for public union members on that front. It sucks that they got sold a bill of goods that couldn't be backed up. It happens to everyone and they aren't immune.

You're right, they don't have to keep doing it anymore. I bet the most skilled will leave and our education system will continue to fall. This doesn't matter though, at it is ancillary to my point which you keep cutting out when you quote me. I don't care about you or Chris Christie moralizing about how tough some folks in the private sector have it and how that is justification for this. I just care about the workers rights that are being curtailed with a manufactured crisis in this case.

That's fine. I'm not ignoring that part of your statement. My response which you can see above was - solely personal - I don't care about it with regards to public union employees. I don't think public employees should have the ability or right to unionize the more I think about it. The government's function is not to ensure a great salary and benefits package for its employees, it's to safeguard the money of the taxpayers and use it wisely. It isn't a profit making business.I don't see any problem here with worker's rights. Because I define public workers different than private workers. No one is going to be forced by threat of violence or having their family taken away to work 18 hour shifts for a penny a day and eat moldy meat. This isn't the 19th century anymore. The whole worker's rights canard regarding public employees needs to be shown for what it is.

And the failures of our public education system have nothing to do with your apparant belief that there isn't enough power or money given to teachers' unions. It's, in fact, the exact opposite.

 

[Statorama]

ABC News reports Obama, DNC behind Wisconsin protests

If this is on the previous page, I'll delete this.

Organizing for America, Obama's campaign arm now under the umbrella of the DNC, has been mobilizing union members and supporters to rally against a proposed Wisconsin budget measure that would strip workers of collective bargaining rights and force them to contribute more for benefits.

Leaders have initiated phone banks and on-the-ground canvassing, and relied on a social media blitz on Facebook and Twitter to build turnout.

DNC Chairman Tim Kaine also reportedly spoke with Wisconsin union leaders and state legislators ahead of the protests, the Huffington Post reported, signaling his direct involvement in coordinating the effort.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

But there's some article I'm supposed to read so maybe I'll feel differently once someone shows it to me.

Do you need someone to hold your hand too when you go to the bathroom? Is that hard to look at the previous page?

I didn't know the article you were talking about was on the previous page. I've now read it and the three links you posted on this page. All the articles seem to present this as something that hasn't happened in a long time until just recently. So it's not like my perspective was completely unrealistic. For the past 25 years or something, the articles portrayed getting a teaching job as pretty easy. Now in the last couple years it's become more difficult. I think it would be great if some of the worst-performing teachers could get fired and replaced by, say, the 2400 new grads in Oregon looking for jobs. But I just googled it and there's around 30,000 total teachers in Oregon, so that still represents a pretty small percentage being replaced. I didn't look at the numbers in Wisconsin or New Jersey so I don't know what they look like.

 

[Statorama]

What's at stake in WisconsinWhat bill would do 2) Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.

What the union bosses are really worried about.

 

[cr8f]

From one of the teachers unions

News Headlines

All news

WEAC President: Worker rights must be protected

Posted: 2/18/2011 2:01:00 PM

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

February 18, 2011

Contact: Christina Brey, 608.21.3497

Statement from WEAC President Mary Bell

The following statement can be attributed to Mary Bell, president of the Wisconsin Education Association Council:

“What’s happening right now in Wisconsin is historic. Tens of thousands of citizens are gathering and speaking out to stop the attacks on the rights of educators, nurses, EMTs and other public employees.

“As a union of public education employees, we’ve been clear: this is about school teachers and support staff retaining a voice in their profession. It’s about Wisconsin’s future. The proposed legislation strips away worker rights and destroys the collaborative partnerships that exist in Wisconsin.

“Ask any teacher, and they’ll tell you they didn’t get into this profession for the money. We have said all along that this isn’t about pay and benefits. Let’s be very clear: we are prepared to implement the financial concessions proposed to help our state in these tough times. But educators will not allow their voices to be silenced by denying their right to be part of a real union.

“It’s about compromise. We will meet the governor half way, but we will not be denied our right to collectively bargain. Our union represents the voice of front-line educators so they can continue to advocate for their students and schools.

“We need to work together to move Wisconsin forward and we must to do so in a way that doesn’t divide our state.”

##

 

[Phil Elliott]

Another story out today

A Jan. 31 memo from the Legislative Fiscal Bureau estimates the state will actually finish the fiscal year on June 30 with a $56 million surplus. That is $54 million more than state administrators estimated and far more than the $137 million in red ink that Darling and Vos refer to.

Neither Vos, R-Rochester, nor Darling, R-River Hills, responded to requests for comment for this report, but those accounting differences have Democrats claiming Republicans are overstating the depth of the problem to push a hard-right agenda and break public worker unions.

"In our conversations with the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, it has become blatantly evident Governor Walker has manifested this fiscal crisis as a Trojan horse in order to enact unfair public policy in the name of fixing the budget," says state Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Madison.

Scot Ross of the left-leaning group One Wisconsin Now went a step further, calling the Walker plan a "handout in special interest spending to his corporate pals."

Ross was referring to $117.2 million in tax breaks approved by the Republican-controlled Legislature in January. Those items making health savings accounts tax deductible, tax deductions for businesses that relocate and tax exclusions for hiring new employees.

Ross and others have said those tax breaks alone have created the shortfall through the end of this budget cycle that Darling and Vos have cited. But the $117.2 million figure cited by the Fiscal Bureau refers to the cost of those tax breaks over the next 2.5 years, not just the next few months.

Going forward, it is clear Wisconsin has some serious budget issues to face. Estimates say the state is facing anywhere from a $3.1 billion to $3.6 billion deficit in the upcoming two-year budget cycle.

That amount represents about 13 percent of total annual state spending, according to Andrew Reschovsky, professor of public affairs and applied economics at UW-Madison.

"The short answer is that we are arguably in a crisis ... but the crisis is the large size of the fiscal 2012 and 2013 budget gap, not the 2011 gap, which is relatively modest," he says.

What, you mean things that actually might help create new jobs? It is simply amazing to me how Liberals want to vilify corporations, while failing to comprehend that they are the job creators.

They are extremely flush with cash right now. Where are the jobs?

Unsure about future healthcare costs and more regulation costs?

Yes..i'm sure that's it. Healthcare costs have risen 130% over the past decade before HCR was even introduced into the picture. What type of regulations?

HCR - Health Care Reform or Health Care Regulation?

 

[Statorama]

proposed legislation strips away worker rights

They will still have the ability to collectively bargain their pay. All this bill does is remove the ability for them to collectively bargain something they never should have been allowed to collectively bargain in the first place.The ability to collectively bargain isn't a "right".NOWJust wait for the REAL battle, the one not too far down the road. That's when the workers take on the retirees.

 

[cr8f]

A brief history, Is this what they want to go back to?1963: Congress passes law mandating equal pay for women. 1913: Strike in RI to obtain a minimum wage for textile workers. 3 killed. 240,000 strike. 1919: Union organizer Fannie Sellins gunned down by co. guards in PA. The right to collective bargaining cost lives. 1917: US Supreme Court approves the 8 hour day act. You can thank the unions. 1914: Ford Motor raises basic wage from $2.40 for a 9 hour day to $5 for an 8 hour day. 1909: NY Shirtwaist strike of 20,000 1911: Triangle Shirtwaist Fire kills 147 trapped NY workers, mostly women & girls.1886: As 16k protest the 10 hour work day in #WI the state militia shoots into the crowd, 7 dead, one a child. 1851: 2 railroad strikers shot dead by NY state militia. 1835: Children in Paterson, NJ silk mills strike for an 11 hour work day, 6 days a week. Yes, children. 1825: Carpenters in Boston strike for a 10-hour work day.

Pathetic

This kind of disrespect from the GOP and refusal to fix (much of what they caused the last 10 years) is part of the fight in Madison.Like Bush Walker inherited a surplus and within days gave it away in tax cuts , and now he wants to use it as an excuse to break unions.I'll stop bring up the Bush deficit and crash when the GOP works together to bring back jobs. We have problems that need fixing. They need to get together and solve problems rather than make bargaining illegal.It's time to negotiate fixes

 

[CletiusMaximus]

"We have said all along that this isn’t about pay and benefits. Let’s be very clear: we are prepared to implement the financial concessions proposed to help our state in these tough times. But educators will not allow their voices to be silenced by denying their right to be part of a real union.“It’s about compromise. We will meet the governor half way, but we will not be denied our right to collectively bargain. Our union represents the voice of front-line educators so they can continue to advocate for their students and schools.

This will likely fall on deaf ears. Walker has successfully duped the private sector public into thinking this is all about "equal pay", but that has never been the case. Everyone knows Walker will get the money he needs to fund his "jobs programs" and the other handouts and concessions he wants for his base. That's not the problem here.

 

[Statorama]

Big missed opportunity here for a GOP Presidential candidate (*Palin*) to organize a counter rally to support states rights.

(side note: Do teachers realize that the bill in question doesn't affect teachers unions?)

 

[TobiasFunke]

Big missed opportunity here for a GOP Presidential candidate (*Palin*) to organize a counter rally to support states rights.(side note: Do teachers realize that the bill in question doesn't affect teachers unions?)

"State's rights"? Who is attempting to infringe on state's rights here? Those heavy-handed state government employees using their overly expansive commerce clause authority to legislate in arenas traditionally reserved for the states?

 

[Statorama]

Big missed opportunity here for a GOP Presidential candidate (*Palin*) to organize a counter rally to support states rights.(side note: Do teachers realize that the bill in question doesn't affect teachers unions?)

"State's rights"? Who is attempting to infringe on state's rights here? Those heavy-handed state government employees using their overly expansive commerce clause authority to legislate in arenas traditionally reserved for the states?

Obama and the DNC are behind the rallies. It's the perfect chance for someone (*Palin*) to say these types of budgetary arguments should be in the hands of the states.

 

[bigbottom]

What's at stake in WisconsinWhat bill would do 2) Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.

What the union bosses are really worried about.

Annual votes to stay organized? That sounds like a complete pain and waste of resources.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Big missed opportunity here for a GOP Presidential candidate (*Palin*) to organize a counter rally to support states rights.(side note: Do teachers realize that the bill in question doesn't affect teachers unions?)

"State's rights"? Who is attempting to infringe on state's rights here? Those heavy-handed state government employees using their overly expansive commerce clause authority to legislate in arenas traditionally reserved for the states?

Obama and the DNC are behind the rallies. It's the perfect chance for someone (*Palin*) to say these types of budgetary arguments should be in the hands of the states.

Of course state budgetary arguments should be in the hands of the states. Nobody is saying any differently. Administrations have had political arms engaging in activities that might benefit the President politically, but have absolutely nothing to do with the federal government, for eons. That's all that's going on here. I know Sarah loves to tilt at windmills, but this a huge stretch even for her. It's a huge stretch even for Stat at 4:20 on a Friday afternoon.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Walker wants the collective bargaining rights for public employees removed (except on pay) because the next step in the budget is going to be to drastically lower the amount of shared revenue sent back to city and county governments from the state. When that money disappears like it is going to, the idea is for the local governments to have the same option with their employees that the state is doing. Make them pay for part of their benefits. The hundreds (thousands?) of local government entities can't do that if each one has to bargain over pension and health care benefits with their local public unions.

I think this is likely the correct analysis. We should know soon I think, and the unions are finally getting the message out that they are prepared to accept the financial concessions, but not give up their unions.

The head of the largest state workers union said Friday that his group is willing to give in to Gov. Scott Walker's demand for concessions on their benefits if the governor gives up his bid to repeal nearly all bargaining rights for public worker unions.

Marty Beil, head of the Wisconsin State Employees Union, which represents some 23,000 blue-collar state workers, said his group would agree to pay more of their pension contributions and health insurance benefits.

"We are prepared to implement the financial concessions proposed to help bring our state's budget into balance, but we will not be denied our God-given right to join a real union . . .  we will not - I repeat we will not - be denied our rights to collectively bargain," Beil said in a statement.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116470423.html