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Set Me Straight (1 Viewer)

The coach seems pretty anti-social. Ive never seen him speak to any parents. He never complains about calls during the game. I dont want Bobby Knight, but cmon.

In any case, Ive thought about talking to the varsity coach. I have a rapport with him and overall, he runs the program..but that may be a little too passive aggressive for my liking.

In the end, Im sure I'll do nothing. :bag:
I would NEVER go over the coach's head to the varsity guy without first talking to him. If it didn't go anywhere or the coach pissed me off, I would then maybe go over his head if I really thought my kid was being treated unfairly or that the coach was a Richard.

Also, re: complaining about coach not arguing with the refs. I coach O-line and I never argue calls. Other guys on my staff do, but I don't think it helps. If I was a ref I would never give a make up call to a complaining coach.
As a HS basketball & football ref, this is true to an extent. But just like coaches, there are a ton of different personalities among refs. Some guys are easy to influence (people pleasers) and arguing/complaining will help get calls, others are more stubborn and let it influence their calls the other way but the best refs are ones who just ignore all of the complaining and call the game as they see it without being influenced one way or the other.

 
what's his box plus minus? real adjusted plus minus? offensive and defensive efficiency ratings? is it a pick-and-roll offense? isolation based? real lack of details in OP, tough to evaluate based on info given. no one uses points scored anymore bro.
The coach doesnt even keep stats like that, so neither of us has a clue. As I said, its a motion type offense. Lots of picks being set, but they dont look for the roll much, if at all. They take a ton of jump shots and dont work the ball inside enough. Lack of details aside, you guys cant really compare players or anything like that. I was more looking for logic and a chance to rant.

 
The reason I asked is JV coaches almost never give minutes on current production. They're grooming kids for Varsity. They're going to play the kids that have varsity potential. Are the guys playing over him bigger, stronger, faster?

 
The coach seems pretty anti-social. Ive never seen him speak to any parents. He never complains about calls during the game. I dont want Bobby Knight, but cmon.

In any case, Ive thought about talking to the varsity coach. I have a rapport with him and overall, he runs the program..but that may be a little too passive aggressive for my liking.

In the end, Im sure I'll do nothing. :bag:
I would NEVER go over the coach's head to the varsity guy without first talking to him. If it didn't go anywhere or the coach pissed me off, I would then maybe go over his head if I really thought my kid was being treated unfairly or that the coach was a Richard.

Also, re: complaining about coach not arguing with the refs. I coach O-line and I never argue calls. Other guys on my staff do, but I don't think it helps. If I was a ref I would never give a make up call to a complaining coach.
As a HS basketball & football ref, this is true to an extent. But just like coaches, there are a ton of different personalities among refs. Some guys are easy to influence (people pleasers) and arguing/complaining will help get calls, others are more stubborn and let it influence their calls the other way but the best refs are ones who just ignore all of the complaining and call the game as they see it without being influenced one way or the other.
I certainly dont agree with "beating up" a ref. That being said, if you just let missed call after call go, you are doing your players a disservice IMO.

 
The reason I asked is JV coaches almost never give minutes on current production. They're grooming kids for Varsity. They're going to play the kids that have varsity potential. Are the guys playing over him bigger, stronger, faster?
Not really. The only other kid that is faster (and noticeably) is just a great athlete. That being said, he's a terrible ball handler and not really a basketball player, per se. If he has a future, its in baseball.

Without lining them up, Id say my son is one of the taller guards on the team. I think only one is taller than he is.

 
High School team? Or is this something else?

You mentioned he is a Sophomore, if it is a HS Varsity team I think the easy answer he won't start every game until he is a Junior.

Best time to speak with the coach is prior to or after the season and come from an approach of "How can I help my son become a better BB player?"

He might respond with, "Nothing, he's a starter next year for us"...end of discussion.

 
High School team? Or is this something else?

You mentioned he is a Sophomore, if it is a HS Varsity team I think the easy answer he won't start every game until he is a Junior.

Best time to speak with the coach is prior to or after the season and come from an approach of "How can I help my son become a better BB player?"

He might respond with, "Nothing, he's a starter next year for us"...end of discussion.
Dynamite drop in, Donnie.

 
what's his box plus minus? real adjusted plus minus? offensive and defensive efficiency ratings? is it a pick-and-roll offense? isolation based? real lack of details in OP, tough to evaluate based on info given. no one uses points scored anymore bro.
The coach doesnt even keep stats like that, so neither of us has a clue. As I said, its a motion type offense. Lots of picks being set, but they dont look for the roll much, if at all. They take a ton of jump shots and dont work the ball inside enough. Lack of details aside, you guys cant really compare players or anything like that. I was more looking for logic and a chance to rant.
We ran a motion offense for the first time in 8th grade, it was a disaster. A few kids set picks, the rest of the kids soon figured out if they didn't work to set picks they'd have a better chance of jacking up three pointers. After a while the kids setting picks got bored of being ignored and stopped setting picks. We didn't win a single game that year after winning the conference the previous year. That was the year I decided my team stunk and quit basketball.

 
what's his box plus minus? real adjusted plus minus? offensive and defensive efficiency ratings? is it a pick-and-roll offense? isolation based? real lack of details in OP, tough to evaluate based on info given. no one uses points scored anymore bro.
The coach doesnt even keep stats like that, so neither of us has a clue. As I said, its a motion type offense. Lots of picks being set, but they dont look for the roll much, if at all. They take a ton of jump shots and dont work the ball inside enough. Lack of details aside, you guys cant really compare players or anything like that. I was more looking for logic and a chance to rant.
We ran a motion offense for the first time in 8th grade, it was a disaster. A few kids set picks, the rest of the kids soon figured out if they didn't work to set picks they'd have a better chance of jacking up three pointers. After a while the kids setting picks got bored of being ignored and stopped setting picks. We didn't win a single game that year after winning the conference the previous year. That was the year I decided my team stunk and quit basketball.
I dont like it simply because the varsity team doesnt run the same way. I understand that you have to play to your team's strengths, but I think the base offense should be the same from the top down.

 
The coach seems pretty anti-social. Ive never seen him speak to any parents. He never complains about calls during the game. I dont want Bobby Knight, but cmon.

In any case, Ive thought about talking to the varsity coach. I have a rapport with him and overall, he runs the program..but that may be a little too passive aggressive for my liking.

In the end, Im sure I'll do nothing. :bag:
This is the Minnesota way.
 
what's his box plus minus? real adjusted plus minus? offensive and defensive efficiency ratings? is it a pick-and-roll offense? isolation based? real lack of details in OP, tough to evaluate based on info given. no one uses points scored anymore bro.
The coach doesnt even keep stats like that, so neither of us has a clue. As I said, its a motion type offense. Lots of picks being set, but they dont look for the roll much, if at all. They take a ton of jump shots and dont work the ball inside enough. Lack of details aside, you guys cant really compare players or anything like that. I was more looking for logic and a chance to rant.
We ran a motion offense for the first time in 8th grade, it was a disaster. A few kids set picks, the rest of the kids soon figured out if they didn't work to set picks they'd have a better chance of jacking up three pointers. After a while the kids setting picks got bored of being ignored and stopped setting picks. We didn't win a single game that year after winning the conference the previous year. That was the year I decided my team stunk and quit basketball.
I dont like it simply because the varsity team doesnt run the same way. I understand that you have to play to your team's strengths, but I think the base offense should be the same from the top down.
If the team is tight-knit and close then an improvisational motion offense might work as everyone will get fed. But if one or two kids dominate the shots or there are cliques within the team then it probably is a disaster. Probably best to go with set plays in those instances.

 
I am the first to admit, I am a biased parent. Looking for feedback from anyone of course (schtick incuded), but mainly coaches.

My son is a sophomore and plays on the 10th grade basketball team. He played sparringly to say the least the first 4 games of the year, all loses (We knew going in, the team would be bad).

In the 5th game, they only had 7 players (usually have 10) so he played more in the one game than he did in the previous combined. He scored 13 of the teams 39 points in a 39-38 win. He doesnt shoot enough IMO so it isnt as if he went Kobe on the team and took a ton of shots.

The 6th game, they got blown out. He actually started and again led the team with 13 points and didnt miss any shots.

They had a week or so off with Christmas, but he went to the few practices they sprinkled in. The played yesterday and I was surpised to see he wasnt starting. However, he played quite a bit in the first half (probably 10 of the 14 minutes) and scored 5 points on 3 shots. He never left the bench the second half. They again lost, this time by a dozen points.

I cant make any sense of the strategy being implemented here? I personally am against parents interacting with coaches in regards to playing time, so I wont address that with him. Sadly, I know 99% of 15 year olds wont ask for themselves either. :kicksrock:
Don't take this the wrong way, because I don't know you, or your son personally, but everything about this post smacks me as everything that is wrong with sporting parents these days.

The only thing you manage to point out in your original post about the strengths of your kid is how many points he's scored. Do you know how hard it is as a youth coach to instill into kids that scoring isn't everything on a basketball court? Parents who can only identify success as scoring hurt this development.

I know you answered some other details in follow up questions, but when looking at the contributions of your kid on the court, you also need to recognize the kind of effort he's putting in. How many rebounds does he get? Does he dive on the floor for loose balls? Is he getting deflections/tips/steals? Does he play good team defense? Is he a good passer, or does the ball stick with him in the offense? These are all things a good coach sees, probably more than how much a kid scores. My philosophy is I don't need give kids on the floor that can score the lights out. I do need five guys that play defense, hustle and play team basketball.

What are your sons biggest weaknesses?

 
I understand exactly what you are saying. As I indicated, he's probably above average defensively. His game effort is fine, I don't see him in practice. He doesn't rebound much, mainly because he's a guard. I'd say his biggest weakness is his lack of aggression. He doesn't drive to the hoop and passes on shots he should be taking. You can see it as a play develops that he is looking to pass the ball long before considering he should be scoring. He is far from lights out scoring. He isn't that type of player, but makes shots when he takes him. He definitely a pass first type of player, but also has the highest 3 point shooting percentage on the team.

 
what's his box plus minus? real adjusted plus minus? offensive and defensive efficiency ratings? is it a pick-and-roll offense? isolation based? real lack of details in OP, tough to evaluate based on info given. no one uses points scored anymore bro.
The coach doesnt even keep stats like that, so neither of us has a clue. As I said, its a motion type offense. Lots of picks being set, but they dont look for the roll much, if at all. They take a ton of jump shots and dont work the ball inside enough. Lack of details aside, you guys cant really compare players or anything like that. I was more looking for logic and a chance to rant.
We ran a motion offense for the first time in 8th grade, it was a disaster. A few kids set picks, the rest of the kids soon figured out if they didn't work to set picks they'd have a better chance of jacking up three pointers. After a while the kids setting picks got bored of being ignored and stopped setting picks. We didn't win a single game that year after winning the conference the previous year. That was the year I decided my team stunk and quit basketball.
Thank you steph curry.

 
I understand exactly what you are saying. As I indicated, he's probably above average defensively. His game effort is fine, I don't see him in practice. He doesn't rebound much, mainly because he's a guard. I'd say his biggest weakness is his lack of aggression. He doesn't drive to the hoop and passes on shots he should be taking. You can see it as a play develops that he is looking to pass the ball long before considering he should be scoring. He is far from lights out scoring. He isn't that type of player, but makes shots when he takes him. He definitely a pass first type of player, but also has the highest 3 point shooting percentage on the team.
No idea why guards don't rebound in their off/def. Also, if he is playing the 2 he could be relied upon to take the open shot within the flow of the offense. If he is passing up the look it may put the team in a worse situation. Just offering possibilities.

Also, this entire tread if for not if you don't at least breach the subject with the coach. Grow a set, man up and act like an adult here. That is probably the best lesson to be taught at this juncture.

 
I understand exactly what you are saying. As I indicated, he's probably above average defensively. His game effort is fine, I don't see him in practice. He doesn't rebound much, mainly because he's a guard. I'd say his biggest weakness is his lack of aggression. He doesn't drive to the hoop and passes on shots he should be taking. You can see it as a play develops that he is looking to pass the ball long before considering he should be scoring. He is far from lights out scoring. He isn't that type of player, but makes shots when he takes him. He definitely a pass first type of player, but also has the highest 3 point shooting percentage on the team.
If I had to guess, I bet the reason he doesn't rebound much has to do with his lack of aggression over the fact that he is a guard.

I have an 8th grader, and one of the best rebounders on his team is the shortest player, but he's quick, active, and can anticipate where rebounds are going. He isn't afraid of the contact to fight for the ball. Being a guard is never a reason not to be rebounding.

Anyway, I see your location is St. Paul. Are you actually in St. Paul or one of the area 'burbs? I don't know the situation at any of the St. Paul schools, but I do know some of the first ring suburb schools. There's definitely a lot of politics in high school sports. Also, from my experience, younger coaches just aren't as good at managing time either. He may have no idea what the minutes are that he is allocating.

 
He's simply not in the paint very often. He gets a few rebounds, but nothing outrageous. I agree that passing up shots can hurt the team. If that's the case for sitting an entire half, he should be told about it from the coach.

 
I dont want to get too specific Bull Dozer, but we live in St. Paul. However, he doesn't go to school on our district. I tried to PM you, but you cant accept them it looks like.

 
The coach seems pretty anti-social. Ive never seen him speak to any parents. He never complains about calls during the game. I dont want Bobby Knight, but cmon.

In any case, Ive thought about talking to the varsity coach. I have a rapport with him and overall, he runs the program..but that may be a little too passive aggressive for my liking.

In the end, Im sure I'll do nothing. :bag:
This is the Minnesota way.
that dude probably drives 1 over in the fast lane and will never pull over and then when you pass him he waives or something minnesota nice my kiester take that to the bank brohans

 
He's simply not in the paint very often. He gets a few rebounds, but nothing outrageous. I agree that passing up shots can hurt the team. If that's the case for sitting an entire half, he should be told about it from the coach.
not sure about that. That is why there is practice. Of players arent doing what they go over in practice, then they probably sit. Im not sure Its the coaches job to sit with every player not playing and explain himself
 
He's simply not in the paint very often. He gets a few rebounds, but nothing outrageous. I agree that passing up shots can hurt the team. If that's the case for sitting an entire half, he should be told about it from the coach.
not sure about that. That is why there is practice. Of players arent doing what they go over in practice, then they probably sit. Im not sure Its the coaches job to sit with every player not playing and explain himself
I guess what I'm saying is, if this was the reason, he would have been told about it.
 
It's not the coaches job to explain expectations to the players? The OP seems frustrated by this lack of communication perhaps moreso than by the lack of PT itself.

 
tell him to quit cherry picking, stop taking too many shots, start setting some screens and play defense.
If only that was the case.I think the post from Grace Under Pressure is probably accurate. If a kid plays two minutes, fine...as long as he knows why and can work towards improving that. If a player is benched for an entire half, he should not have to guess why. That's pretty significant to me.

 
tell him to quit cherry picking, stop taking too many shots, start setting some screens and play defense.
If only that was the case.I think the post from Grace Under Pressure is probably accurate. If a kid plays two minutes, fine...as long as he knows why and can work towards improving that. If a player is benched for an entire half, he should not have to guess why. That's pretty significant to me.
In all of my years of playing, I don't ever remember a coach explaining to me why I wasn't playing. Sometimes it was obvious to me, but a lot of times it wasn't. Granted for two years of HS, there were very few instances of me sitting, but in college there were a lot of WTH moments when my playing time was inexplicably reduced with no discernible reason.

 
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Maybe the coach needs an assistant to help with the rotation and keeping stats to get the best team possible out there.

 
Think of yourself as an agent and not a parent. You may have a potential superstar here on his way to the gpod life. He needs his playing time

The world has a few winners and a whole lot of losers. These other kids are the losers and they need to get your kid the rock.

Its your responsibility to make sure his developement isnt stunted. If you were lebrons agent and he wasnt getting wouldnt you be working to find him a better situation?

 
Dont speak to the coach. Have your son advocate for himself.

Someone mentioned it earlier about getting the kids ready for varsity. A lot of times the varsity coach wants to see certain kids in different situations and that dictates who plays. This happened when my son was in 10th grade too. Sometimes the plays didnt make sense given the score or who was out on the court at different times. We as parents want to see our kids play and also want to see them win but that doesnt make any difference to the varsity coach.

One other thing about sitting out the entire half. Not sure how it works where you are but kids here can move up to varsity after the JV game (varsity game always follows jv game). But if they played in all 4 quarters they cant play in the varsity game. If they played in 3 quarters they are allowed to play or go in during 1 quarter of the game and so on.

 
Dont speak to the coach. Have your son advocate for himself.

Someone mentioned it earlier about getting the kids ready for varsity. A lot of times the varsity coach wants to see certain kids in different situations and that dictates who plays. This happened when my son was in 10th grade too. Sometimes the plays didnt make sense given the score or who was out on the court at different times. We as parents want to see our kids play and also want to see them win but that doesnt make any difference to the varsity coach.

One other thing about sitting out the entire half. Not sure how it works where you are but kids here can move up to varsity after the JV game (varsity game always follows jv game). But if they played in all 4 quarters they cant play in the varsity game. If they played in 3 quarters they are allowed to play or go in during 1 quarter of the game and so on.
We only do that between the JV and Varsity teams.
 
Dont speak to the coach. Have your son advocate for himself.

Someone mentioned it earlier about getting the kids ready for varsity. A lot of times the varsity coach wants to see certain kids in different situations and that dictates who plays. This happened when my son was in 10th grade too. Sometimes the plays didnt make sense given the score or who was out on the court at different times. We as parents want to see our kids play and also want to see them win but that doesnt make any difference to the varsity coach.

One other thing about sitting out the entire half. Not sure how it works where you are but kids here can move up to varsity after the JV game (varsity game always follows jv game). But if they played in all 4 quarters they cant play in the varsity game. If they played in 3 quarters they are allowed to play or go in during 1 quarter of the game and so on.
We only do that between the JV and Varsity teams.
Isn't 10th grade JV?

 
Cjw_55106 said:
Peyton Marino said:
what's his box plus minus? real adjusted plus minus? offensive and defensive efficiency ratings? is it a pick-and-roll offense? isolation based? real lack of details in OP, tough to evaluate based on info given. no one uses points scored anymore bro.
The coach doesnt even keep stats like that, so neither of us has a clue. As I said, its a motion type offense. Lots of picks being set, but they dont look for the roll much, if at all. They take a ton of jump shots and dont work the ball inside enough. Lack of details aside, you guys cant really compare players or anything like that. I was more looking for logic and a chance to rant.
Have you even looked at the team's SportVu data? What regressions have you run?

 
Don't be that parent and speak to the coach about playing time. Makes the kid look bad , makes you look bad . It always gets out

Do however have your son ask we he needs to keep working on to get more time.

 
So this 10th grade coach runs a different system than varsity and doesn't tell his guys what they need to work on....I'm starting to lean towards the coach doesn't know what he's doing.

 
So this 10th grade coach runs a different system than varsity and doesn't tell his guys what they need to work on....I'm starting to lean towards the coach doesn't know what he's doing.
He's in it for the extra couple grand he's getting. If he isn't getting paid, then I would be worried about his motives. Clearly he isn't interested in sports.

 
High School team? Or is this something else?

You mentioned he is a Sophomore, if it is a HS Varsity team I think the easy answer he won't start every game until he is a Junior.

Best time to speak with the coach is prior to or after the season and come from an approach of "How can I help my son become a better BB player?"

He might respond with, "Nothing, he's a starter next year for us"...end of discussion.
Dynamite drop in, Donnie.
The ******** is not the issue

 
So this 10th grade coach runs a different system than varsity and doesn't tell his guys what they need to work on....I'm starting to lean towards the coach doesn't know what he's doing.
He is a JV coach in a program that doesn't seem to win much. Of course he doesn't know what he is doing. He probably is either volunteering or barely gets compensated for his time. So the best thing to do is to put a lot of stress on him by always having to justify his actions to 12 angry parents.

 
From my experience coaching, have him ask "how can I get better" not how can I get minutes or start. Coaches love being asked 1 and hate being asked the other. They're probably the same answer. If he has no answer, ask varsity coach the same question.

 
From my experience coaching, have him ask "how can I get better" not how can I get minutes or start. Coaches love being asked 1 and hate being asked the other. They're probably the same answer. If he has no answer, ask varsity coach the same question.
As a coach, I wouldn't mind either question from a player, and would far prefer either to hearing anything from a parent. I know if they are asking "how can I get better" I know they are asking how they can get more time, unless they are a starter already.

 
From my experience coaching, have him ask "how can I get better" not how can I get minutes or start. Coaches love being asked 1 and hate being asked the other. They're probably the same answer. If he has no answer, ask varsity coach the same question.
As a coach, I wouldn't mind either question from a player, and would far prefer either to hearing anything from a parent. I know if they are asking "how can I get better" I know they are asking how they can get more time, unless they are a starter already.
I understand, and as I said, I wont be talking to the coach. He started two of the seven games. I think the issue is just more confusing than anything else. He has three games in the next week. I'll wait and see if the picture clears up at all.

In response to Jon, he is not a volunteer and is paid. Naturally, like most coaches, it doesnt come out to a large hourly wage. And Ive already stated, this is not a JV team, but I wont go over that again.

 
Don't be that parent and speak to the coach about playing time. Makes the kid look bad , makes you look bad . It always gets out

Do however have your son ask we he needs to keep working on to get more time.
This is correct.

There could be lots of reasons why your son is on the bench. It is likely that the coach sucks or he does have favorite players.

10th grade was my last year of basketball for very similar reasons to your son. I was on the second team but outplayed a couple of the starters in practice every day by the end of the season. My game time minutes never increased. I never said anything to the coach. That was a mistake.

After the 10th grade season ended, another second stringer and I lived in the weight room, on the track, and on the court. I loved basketball and sports in general so it was not like I had to force myself to work at it. I am still a workout maniac in my 40s. When my junior year season rolled around, I was not only a better shooter but also taller, stronger, and faster than before. I was obviously one of the best guards/forwards on the team when practices started but was still on the second team. I can still vividly remember singlehandedly breaking down the first team's full court press and the coaches screaming at the first team while the assistant coaches that were running the second team were smiling ear to ear. It did not help. I remained on the second team. I had no desire to bust my butt every night at practice just to sit and watch our team get beat from the bench so I quit the team after a few weeks. Favoritism was huge at my small rural school.

 
From my experience coaching, have him ask "how can I get better" not how can I get minutes or start. Coaches love being asked 1 and hate being asked the other. They're probably the same answer. If he has no answer, ask varsity coach the same question.
As a coach, I wouldn't mind either question from a player, and would far prefer either to hearing anything from a parent. I know if they are asking "how can I get better" I know they are asking how they can get more time, unless they are a starter already.
I understand, and as I said, I wont be talking to the coach. He started two of the seven games. I think the issue is just more confusing than anything else. He has three games in the next week. I'll wait and see if the picture clears up at all.

In response to Jon, he is not a volunteer and is paid. Naturally, like most coaches, it doesnt come out to a large hourly wage. And Ive already stated, this is not a JV team, but I wont go over that again.
Three games in a week should give you a good picture. I don't recall if you said how many were on the team. The coach could be working some kind of rotation. I know with 10 on a traveling team, it's hard to get all 10 decent minutes in a game. We'll rotate who starts. The starters get the majority minutes. We have maybe 7 that deserve more time than the others, but not all 7 will get the same minutes each game. It's not always an exact science.

 
From my experience coaching, have him ask "how can I get better" not how can I get minutes or start. Coaches love being asked 1 and hate being asked the other. They're probably the same answer. If he has no answer, ask varsity coach the same question.
As a coach, I wouldn't mind either question from a player, and would far prefer either to hearing anything from a parent. I know if they are asking "how can I get better" I know they are asking how they can get more time, unless they are a starter already.
I understand, and as I said, I wont be talking to the coach. He started two of the seven games. I think the issue is just more confusing than anything else. He has three games in the next week. I'll wait and see if the picture clears up at all.

In response to Jon, he is not a volunteer and is paid. Naturally, like most coaches, it doesnt come out to a large hourly wage. And Ive already stated, this is not a JV team, but I wont go over that again.
Three games in a week should give you a good picture. I don't recall if you said how many were on the team. The coach could be working some kind of rotation. I know with 10 on a traveling team, it's hard to get all 10 decent minutes in a game. We'll rotate who starts. The starters get the majority minutes. We have maybe 7 that deserve more time than the others, but not all 7 will get the same minutes each game. It's not always an exact science.
Sounds similar. 10 guys. I'd say that 3 kids are below the rest as far as talent and would logically play less.

 

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