Just wondering if Belichick held this guy back in the pre-season intentionally. By all accounts, he's a better all around back than Ridley and BJGE. I could be off base but it smacks of gamesmanship to me - i.e., produce virtually no film on the guy but work him into the last pre-season game for some reps. His stat line was putrid but he was also working with scrubs on the line. Thoughts?
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Shane Vereen (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bad_Mo
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Footballguy
Please supply links to such accounts, TIA.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Does he really need to since Vereen was drafted higher?
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Footballguy
Yes of course.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Pats just cut Brandon Meriweather after a first round selection and two probowls.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
All I am saying is most draft expert had Vereen ranked routinely inside the top 10 and Ridley was ranked routinely outside the top 10. So by most accounts Vereen was considered the better running back. I know that "all" is not "most" but I will forgive him for using the wrong word. As for what the Patriots actually think of a player it is pretty much top secret information.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
it might be a worse RBBC scenario than WAS
but I still think Ridley played exceptionally well and it won't be forgotten and he will be given the chance to continue to perform
I don't have a link on that either
but I still think Ridley played exceptionally well and it won't be forgotten and he will be given the chance to continue to perform
I don't have a link on that either
LawFitz
Footballguy
This is the right answer here. Billy B is one of the most secretive coaches around. He could be hiding one or both of the two rookies, but the fact that they actually missed practice, not just preseason games, is what rings out most to me. Unless that's misinformation too.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Not enough roster spots, dude. Some of us have to choose between lottery tix and can't just hoard them all.
Otis
Footballguy
You hoard the ones with the most upside. Just drop Ricky Williams already.
LawFitz
Footballguy
LOL, it's McGahee that's tying up a spot for me. Along with Tate. Those are the two that I'd have to drop for the NE rooks and there is a part of me that wants to do it.
Aunt Jemima
Footballguy
On top of being a rookie, Vereen missed missed most of camp due to an injury. He is way behind right now. If he is gonna play it won't be until midseason IMO
RB position is the easiest to learn as a rookie. With a good O-line and multiple receiving weapons, whoever is taking handoffs from Brady should do well. It wouldn't surprise me if we see a rotation of BJGE, Woodhead and Vereen with Ridley being inactive most games and coming up with some mystery injury which puts him on IR when Faulk returns.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Not a chance (imho) BB held him out intentionally; Vereen hurt a hamstring early in camp and they held him out so it would heal. Nothing more nothing less.As for predictions on the Patriots backfield, it iws as clear as mud, but it wouldn't shock me to see Ridley get some serious playing time.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Didn't watch the 2nd half of MNF. Saw the good stats. How did he look last night?
(Dynasty owner)
(Dynasty owner)
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Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
I only saw a couple comments in the game thread, would like to hear more as well. Sounds like he showed some flashes: good vision and quickness
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
He looked better than good. But there's still 3 other good rb's in the mix so it's a crapshoot at the moment with BJGE being the main workhorse.
I thought he looked real good in limited time.Maybe it was just fresh legs, but he took it in when BJGE got stuffed on the previous play. That could earn him Belichec points....Several nice runs to elude trash in the backfield and bounce outside. Nice stutter step, to get outside where it was initially clogged up in the middle, took it around 10-12 yards to the left. SHowed decent burst through the line as well on inside runs....As an owner in one league, I am intrigued
This is just my opinion, but I think that run may have the opposite effect. Vereen appeared to have a small hole where the run was designed to go. He didn't hit that hole, rather he danced, and cut it back against the grain. Because KC was all bunched up inside, that worked, and he got the corner and the end zone, but in a normal situation, there would likely have been outside contain on the weak side to prevent that from happening. BB seems to be the kind of coach who wants his players to run the plays, as they are called (as does Brady), so "improvising" like Vereen did would likely (IMO) be frowned on.
NBusiness
Footballguy
I'd agree with this if it was the 07 offense but this years version lacks explosiveness in every facet besides the TEs basically so if they can add any kind of speed to this offense it helps it tremendously.
I think you misunderstood what I posted. I was specifically talking about the previous poster suggesting he thought that one play might "earn points" with Belicheck. Vereen seemed to give up on the play that was called and went his own way. Personally, I think BB would frown on that, regardless of the outcome, as he is the type of coach who wants you to do things the way they are drawn up.I do think Vereen looked good, and if BB wanted to utilize his explosiveness/speed, he'd plan to do so, but Vereen giving up on a play design and "free-lancing" probably won't earn him any points, IMO.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I understand the point you are trying to make, but I think maybe you're going a little too far. My guess is you are correct that Billy wants players to follow "the plan", but if the hole he was supposed to go through closed up and he saw daylight outside and took it outisde - I don't think Belicheck would be upset at the effort.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
Two words: Get him.
BallparkFrank
Footballguy
Who cares what the depth chart says - if you combine BJGE, Woody, Ridley and Faulk you end up with Shane Vereen. He's the most versatile back in the Patriots stable. For a relatively small back, he also led all RB's (excluding 1 FB) with 31 bench press reps at the combine - so he's got the necessary strength. Once he gets acclimated to the offense and gains the trust of BB and Brady (a difficult thing to do), I think his pass catching skills will be what vaults him to the front of the line eventually, especially in a pass happy Patriots offense. Produce and BB will get you on the field.
(Vereen and Ridley dynasty owner)
(Vereen and Ridley dynasty owner)
You could be right, and I maybe am reading too much into it, but my point is based on the fact that when I was watching the game (both live and replaying that play on TiVo), it seemed like there was a hole, just not the massive "college, drive a dump-truck through it" hole that college players are accustomed to. I'm also not suggesting that BB would be upset at his effort, but that if I'm right, Vereen made a mistake, one he got away with. BB would recognize this, and this mistake wouldn't "earn him points."
Again, I do think Vereen looked good, and I could see BB designing plays (or having his coaching staff do so) that would take advantage of his strengths.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He looked pretty darn good last night. I own both so I'm hoping one goes off here at the end of the season, so I can trade him away. I want no part in the Pats backfield.
Boston
Footballguy
I really agree with this...one thing that this offense misses is the threat of someone who can score like lightning...someone who can take a broken play 60 yards and change a game...adding this type of dimension would really give defenses another major headache (I really wanted the Pats to take a run at Sproles)...now whether Vereen is that player this year or in the future remains to be seen...he did look real good last night but it was garbage time...he seemed to have a giddy-up that the other backs don't have...hopefully he'll get some more opportunities to show what he can do...Ridley did after his break-out but it was limited and he didn't do much with it and right now he's somewhat MIA...the bad news is if Faulk comes back it's going to be difficult for him to be fantasy viable as Faulk will play if he's healthy...
Good point; except for the reliabilty of BJGE (no fumbles, EVER), the pass-blocking of BJGE, the knowledge/familiarity of the offense of BJGE, Woodhead, & Faulk, and the inside running ability of BJGE & Ridley, Vereen is just as good as the other guys.
BallparkFrank
Footballguy
Is there any talk of the Patriots and BJGE talking extension or anything alone those lines? It seems everyone's of the opinion that the Pats will just let him go this offseason, but will there really be a market for him elsewhere? He seems like the guy the Patriots could bring back on the cheap similar to James Jones re-signing with the Packers due to a lack of interest.
Boston
Footballguy
I've heard zero but since it's the Pats that should not come as a surprise...I can see either scenario playing out...the Pats used high picks on Vereen and Ridley and may commit to them in 2012...yet, I don't see Benny being the type of RB that will get big money on the open-market so if the Pats want him back I gotta believe he's there for the taking...the guy will never be an All-Pro or a legit #1 because he has limitations but he's a quality player who you can trust and there's not a team in the NFL he wouldn't help...
djmich
Footballguy
Generally agree and the Pats will probably get him back at a good price. I could see the Bengals taking a look at BJGE...Solid, Steady, Cheap, Unspectacular...Benson but younger.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Not gonig to call him, or even compare him to Shady. But he had a Shady-like run last night. Fun to watch.
As a fan of his, going back to college, I HATE that he went to the Pats. I think I would rather him play in Washington.
As a fan of his, going back to college, I HATE that he went to the Pats. I think I would rather him play in Washington.
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pittstownkiller
Footballguy
For when; this season, or to stockpile for next? I think with all the confusion in the Pats backfield he only has value short-term because he is only one off-season FA signing from becoming D. Woodhead for next year.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Que?The Pats used a high pick on him, and he looked good in limited action. I actually think his short-term outlook is being blown out of proportion. It was garbage time.But he is talented and has potential. He has very good value moving forward in dynasty leagues.
LargeMouthBass
Footballguy
Whatever happened to the Ridley hype train? Did it already crash and burn?
I like Vereen but he's still a NE RB. I don't trust pass first offense RBs.
I like Vereen but he's still a NE RB. I don't trust pass first offense RBs.
Ever Present Lurker
Footballguy
Oh no. Not me. I already played this game once earlier in the year with Ridley. The Patriots are going to do the same thing they always do: Throw a lot, give a bit to BJGE, and then the remaining 10 carries will be divvied up among the rest of RBs on the roster. I'm not buying anything here. Bah humbug! 
Boston
Footballguy
He had limited opportunities and didn't do much with them...he still looks like he can play but the fact Vereen was the one in last night may not be a good sign for Ridley...as far as Vereen goes if you have a roster spot available he's worth a pick-up/flyer (I would not cut anyone who is fantasy viable)...he may not get a snap next week but I'd rather follow the "a week early rather than a week late" rule just in-case he gets more involved against Philly...it's week 12 and any RB with potential is a rock you have to turn-over...'LargeMouthBass said:
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BallparkFrank
Footballguy
Q&A with Reiss today, fwiw:
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
I'm just hoping as a dynasty owner Vereen goes to another team in a few years that will actually use him and get him 10 to 15 touches. I think he adds more explosiveness to any team. Just saying is all.
Scooby1974
Footballguy
Assume with me that Vereen IS indeed talented and earns the trust of BB and Brady...
Why couldn't Vereen play a "McCoy" type role in the NE offense? The Eagles are a pass happy team, and McCoy takes tons of dump off passes and screens and does rather well with them (on top of the short yardage work). Is Vereen faster/quicker/stronger/have as good or better hands than Woodhead and Eddleman? Is Vereen THAT much smaller than BJGE that he couldn't handle the inside running/goal line work? It seems that IF his pass protection and inside running ability is up to snuff, he could play a "Shady" type role here in NE. Thoughts?
Why couldn't Vereen play a "McCoy" type role in the NE offense? The Eagles are a pass happy team, and McCoy takes tons of dump off passes and screens and does rather well with them (on top of the short yardage work). Is Vereen faster/quicker/stronger/have as good or better hands than Woodhead and Eddleman? Is Vereen THAT much smaller than BJGE that he couldn't handle the inside running/goal line work? It seems that IF his pass protection and inside running ability is up to snuff, he could play a "Shady" type role here in NE. Thoughts?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Then again, who the #### knows?
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
This makes no sense to me at all. You think Belichick is going to be mad at Vereen because he made a cut to the outside when there was no hole in the middle? So Belichick rather Vereen run the ball up the middle for no gain setting up a 4th and 3 instead of Vereen cutting it to the outside for a 19 yard gain making it first and goal from the 3 yard line? To say it kindly, that's very illogical.
Scooby1974
Footballguy
No, he was simply stating that Vereen passed up the hole he was SUPPOSED to hit to bounce it outside. His point was that BB might not prefer the passing up of the intended play.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
The Pats have basically opted for a RBBC approach for what, 7 years now? I don't see that changing any time soon, as they appear content to pay low dollars for RBs and invest the bigger dollars elsewhere.
I think the Pats would want BJGE back, but I am not sure they want to give him more than he makes now ($1.8 million) and probably would not want to lock him up to a multi-year deal. Faulk is getting $900K, but I doubt he would be back next year. The three headed hydra of Woodhead, Vereen, and Ridley are all paid peanuts ($375K - $550K).
I don't see any of the current backs dramatically better in their all around game or talent level that they would put the other guys on the bench and ride that one player. IMO, they like having different guys do different things and that keeps them all fresher both in game and season long.
Long story short, I would expect the status quo next year, and the best fantasy option will rotate from week to week (with little pregame knowledge of which guy that might be).
I think the Pats would want BJGE back, but I am not sure they want to give him more than he makes now ($1.8 million) and probably would not want to lock him up to a multi-year deal. Faulk is getting $900K, but I doubt he would be back next year. The three headed hydra of Woodhead, Vereen, and Ridley are all paid peanuts ($375K - $550K).
I don't see any of the current backs dramatically better in their all around game or talent level that they would put the other guys on the bench and ride that one player. IMO, they like having different guys do different things and that keeps them all fresher both in game and season long.
Long story short, I would expect the status quo next year, and the best fantasy option will rotate from week to week (with little pregame knowledge of which guy that might be).
What? No links of experts from Rotoworld, fftoday, sharks, cbs, etc.?Oh wait a minute they're not expects. lol.
