290 carries is still a lot.
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Shane Vereen (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter chinawildman
- Start date
Otis
Footballguy
Kevin Faulk finds this comment kind of ridiculous.
cstu
Footballguy
Faulk's competition for targets back then was Branch, Givens and Graham.Barring an injury to Ridley he's going to be a bye week hope-and-pray.
Otis
Footballguy
Given Vereen's performance at the end of the season, he finds this comment kind of ridiculous.
cstu
Footballguy
An average of 2 PPG the last 5 weeks? He had a huge game against the Texans and followed it up with 5.8 points.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
How did Danny Woodhead end the regular season?
cstu
Footballguy
And they signed his clone in Leon Washington.
The Comedian
Footballguy
I don't think Washington is going to be used like Woodhead at all.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
Agreed. Washington is more a return guy at this point.
Hedgehog
Footballguy
Woodhead finishd 25th ranked RB in my league last year and I think Vereen is better than him. So even if he is the #2 RB in NE he should be a very nice #3RB. I can see Vereen getting hot and NE going into a time share....I'm buying.
No chance Washington takes anything away from Vereen.
No chance Washington takes anything away from Vereen.
For all the debating about who the best fantasy NE RB is, has anyone ever comfortably stuck one in their lineup as a RB2? Even Ridley I would prefer to use as my RB3. They are so inconsistent and have been since 2005 when Dillon got hurt.
Seems to me that if you are counting on RB2 weekly production, they will lose more games than they win for you. Unless the rest of your lineup is stacked of course. Then who cares who your RB2 is.
Seems to me that if you are counting on RB2 weekly production, they will lose more games than they win for you. Unless the rest of your lineup is stacked of course. Then who cares who your RB2 is.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I was more than comfortable with Ridley as my RB2 on multiple teams this past season and won quite a bit of money as a result. 
But if Vereen learns the offense better, his explosiveness is hard not to like.
But if Vereen learns the offense better, his explosiveness is hard not to like.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I like vereen as a PPR target this year.
I remember Yukin often saying that when Vereen was healthy he was often running with the #1's in Pats pratice but he seemed to get dinged up.
I remember Yukin often saying that when Vereen was healthy he was often running with the #1's in Pats pratice but he seemed to get dinged up.
I can see Ridley being a suitable RB2 especially if the rest of your team is good. Still makes me nervous that he has so many single digit point games. Even worse when he puts up an 8 and a 2 in the final two playoff weeks.I was more than comfortable with Ridley as my RB2 on multiple teams this past season and won quite a bit of money as a result.
"at this point"? What point? Is he too slow to be a running back, but fast enough to be a return guy? What skills have diminished? Just because one team used a guy one way doesn't mean he can't be utilized in a different way on a different team.I like Vereen, but I think it is silly to write Washington off. I'd be wary of him. I don't have a strong gut reaction one way or another, but I think the dismissive attitude of Vereen owners is a bit short sighted. I'll be buying if the price is right, but I'm not going to lose any sleep if I miss out on Vereen. This is a very murky situation.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
The rub with Ridley is the same with Albert Morris: he is used so infrequently in the passing game that if he doesn't score a touchdown, you could very well be looking at a single digit FF week. And it's not like Ridley can't catch the ball; he had 5 catches for 51 yards in Weeks 1 and 2 in '12, but only got 1 catch the rest of the season after that. But that was when Welker was being punished and not playing as much, so I wonder if Ridley, as well as Vereen, will be used more in the passing game to compensate for the loss of Welker in '13 (I don't see Amendola totally filling that role). Not that I see him all of a sudden catching 50 balls, but I could see 20-30.I can see Ridley being a suitable RB2 especially if the rest of your team is good. Still makes me nervous that he has so many single digit point games. Even worse when he puts up an 8 and a 2 in the final two playoff weeks.I was more than comfortable with Ridley as my RB2 on multiple teams this past season and won quite a bit of money as a result.
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BearsFan4Life
Footballguy
At this point the moves the Pats made look good for Vereen. In dynasty I couldn't drop him due to the potential that was there. I am happy to roster him at RB5/6 with Hillman behind TRich, McCoy, Mathews, and LMiller.I can see Ridley being a suitable RB2 especially if the rest of your team is good. Still makes me nervous that he has so many single digit point games. Even worse when he puts up an 8 and a 2 in the final two playoff weeks.I was more than comfortable with Ridley as my RB2 on multiple teams this past season and won quite a bit of money as a result.
Scooby1974
Footballguy
It is possible for Washington to get some carries. But keep in mind too that he was outplayed at RB on 3rd downs in Seattle by a rookie in Robert Turbin. Can Washington block? Why could he not beat out a rookie?
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FYI, Turbin would have beaten out Vereen, too.
I agree with this. Their system does evolve a bit year to year so it's possible. As a side note, I wonder how much they use Brandon Bolden this year if he's healthy and not suspended.The rub with Ridley is the same with Albert Morris: he is used so infrequently in the passing game that if he doesn't score a touchdown, you could very well be looking at a single digit FF week. And it's not like Ridley can't catch the ball; he had 5 catches for 51 yards in Weeks 1 and 2 in '12, but only got 1 catch the rest of the season after that. But that was when Welker was being punished and not playing as much, so I wonder if Ridley, as well as Vereen, will be used more in the passing game to compensate for the loss of Welker in '13 (I don't see Amendola totally filling that role). Not that I see him all of a sudden catching 50 balls, but I could see 20-30.I can see Ridley being a suitable RB2 especially if the rest of your team is good. Still makes me nervous that he has so many single digit point games. Even worse when he puts up an 8 and a 2 in the final two playoff weeks.I was more than comfortable with Ridley as my RB2 on multiple teams this past season and won quite a bit of money as a result.
Scooby1974
Footballguy
Possibly. I see Washington as being more of a special team guy than a quality RB or even a COP guy.'jonboltz said:
CalBear
Footballguy
He averaged 3.6 yards per carry in 2012 (fourth on the Seahawks), as a change of pace from the most punishing back in the NFL. He's going to be 31 on opening day.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
He is about to be 31. He hasn't had much workload for three straight years after his injury in 2009. He has never had 200 touches in a season in his career, has a career high of 47 catches... FIVE years ago. Heck, I picked him up in Seattle back in 2010 as a speculative add, citing the underused rationale back then... but that boat has likely sailed. Not much to be wary of now, I'm afraid. Sure, hoody could go goofy and feed Leon the ball a la Kevin Faulk a while back, but there is nothing to suggest that is what is happening with this signing.I have Vereen in two leagues, I drafted him in both. I like him just fine, talent-wise, but at this point he is simply a backup with the possibility of having 3rd down duties. He is not a guy that anybody wants to start unless Ridley gets hurt. There is some PPR spot start and flex appeal, but ultimately we are debating who is going to be the 3rd down RB... do we really care that much?
djmich
Footballguy
See post above yours, if you think he is a solid RB3 with upside if things don't go right for Ridley....yah that is a guy you care about.He is about to be 31. He hasn't had much workload for three straight years after his injury in 2009. He has never had 200 touches in a season in his career, has a career high of 47 catches... FIVE years ago. Heck, I picked him up in Seattle back in 2010 as a speculative add, citing the underused rationale back then... but that boat has likely sailed. Not much to be wary of now, I'm afraid. Sure, hoody could go goofy and feed Leon the ball a la Kevin Faulk a while back, but there is nothing to suggest that is what is happening with this signing.I have Vereen in two leagues, I drafted him in both. I like him just fine, talent-wise, but at this point he is simply a backup with the possibility of having 3rd down duties. He is not a guy that anybody wants to start unless Ridley gets hurt. There is some PPR spot start and flex appeal, but ultimately we are debating who is going to be the 3rd down RB... do we really care that much?
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Which elicits more confidence: Ridley as a RB2 or Vereen as a RB3?
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Ridley for me, since he's already done it before.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
900 yards and 5 TDs would represent Vereen's upside, not his likely output, IMO. If things "don't go right for Ridley", then I agree Vereen has more value. Obviously.In 12 team leagues that do not require 3 RBS, Vereen is clearly a fantasy bench player. If you are starting him, you are likely at a positional disadvantage.See post above yours, if you think he is a solid RB3 with upside if things don't go right for Ridley....yah that is a guy you care about.He is about to be 31. He hasn't had much workload for three straight years after his injury in 2009. He has never had 200 touches in a season in his career, has a career high of 47 catches... FIVE years ago. Heck, I picked him up in Seattle back in 2010 as a speculative add, citing the underused rationale back then... but that boat has likely sailed. Not much to be wary of now, I'm afraid. Sure, hoody could go goofy and feed Leon the ball a la Kevin Faulk a while back, but there is nothing to suggest that is what is happening with this signing.
I have Vereen in two leagues, I drafted him in both. I like him just fine, talent-wise, but at this point he is simply a backup with the possibility of having 3rd down duties. He is not a guy that anybody wants to start unless Ridley gets hurt. There is some PPR spot start and flex appeal, but ultimately we are debating who is going to be the 3rd down RB... do we really care that much?
So, yeah, I care about Vereen... just like I care about Ben Tate, Bernard Pierce, Mike Bush, Fred Jackson, Jaquizz Rogers, Toby Gerhart, and Robert Turbin. Backup and 3rd down RBs with upside if "things don't go right for [starting RB]".
Now if we are talking about Vereen's career prospects, we have more to discuss. Assuming Ridley keeps the starting gig, Vereen is a RFA in 2015.
Nero
Footballguy
Vereen and Woodhead combined for 1147 yards and 11 TD; Bolden added another 285 and 2. The production is there to be had even if things do go right for Ridley.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Ridely. In the NE offense, there are often players who will have a handful of huge weeks and then tons of weeks where they don't do anything and/or barely touch the ball. Looking at the final numbers, Woodhead was a RB3 in 2012, but he had like 5 or 6 weeks where he was absolutely useless, and it is likely that Vereen will be kind of like that next year. He might get 120 total yards, 2 TDs and 4 catches one week, and then get 20 yards, no scores and no catches the next. Ridley, assuming he holds on to the starting job and the main goal line back, will be far more consistent as a RB2. But if the rest of your team is good enough, Vereen as a RB3 or flex could be worth it. His bad weeks could sandbag you if the rest of your team has an off week, but his big weeks at that RB3/flex spot will be huge.
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I'm just looking at the yahoo stats so I can't discern what position rushed the ball, but NE was #2 in the league in team rushes with 523, behind only Seattle with 536 (making me think NE probably had the most RB rushes). With the WRs looking worse than last year (and more fragile), I don't see why they'd go away from the run. There should be room for two productive RBs on this roster. I'm still wary of Leon Washington, but I think my faith in Vereen trumps that concern.
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Insoxicated
Can we cool it with the absolutes? When guys like Yudkin who are truly in the loop in Foxboro are consistently caught off guard by player usage, I find it VERY difficult to consider statements like the above to be anything more than educated guesses.... at best. Is it unlikely? Sure. Vereen's flexibility in lining up at a wide variety of spots opens up his value greatly... particularly in PPR. I love him as a RB3-4 this coming year.
Agree. Plus I think Vereen eats into Ridleys carries this year. Guy is explosive.
I think Vereen is in a different category than those guys- he has a better chance at earning a larger role and putting up stats than they do.
What makes you believe that Vereen is in a different category? Aside from Jaquizz, all of those RBs are much better at actually rushing the football.
I meant from a FF perspective, not talent-wise. Basically I think Vereen has a better chance to chip at Ridley's workload than those guys do, and he's on a better offense.
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Itchy Amos
Footballguy
I think that Vereen will be a solid value play next year with tremendous upside. All the talk on the local sports talk shows in New England is that the Patriots want to get back to having a more ball control offense and a stronger defense. With that said, the Patriots did run the ball 523 times during the regular season. That's a fairly high total but I don't see any reason why we should expect them to rush less.
Based upon what we saw at the end of the 2012 regular season and into the playoffs, the Patriots appear to be comfortable giving Vereen about half as many carries as Ridley. With Woodhead gone, I've heard that they plan on making Vereen the primary receiving RB and based on what Vereen showed in the playoffs, I dont blame them. He's a weapon when he gets in space and he seems to have great hands.
Assuming that Vereen's role is that of 2nd banana for rushing attempts and the 1st option for RB receptions, I'd expect that he'd see something about: 140 attempts /600 yards rushing & 45 rec/500 yards. TDs arent that reliable, but I'd be surprised if he didnt have one or two games where he had multiple TDs. I expect him to finish the season with about 1,000 - 1,100 total yards and somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 total TDs. I think he has upside from these numbers, especially if Ridley goes down with an injury or starts to fumble.
Based upon what we saw at the end of the 2012 regular season and into the playoffs, the Patriots appear to be comfortable giving Vereen about half as many carries as Ridley. With Woodhead gone, I've heard that they plan on making Vereen the primary receiving RB and based on what Vereen showed in the playoffs, I dont blame them. He's a weapon when he gets in space and he seems to have great hands.
Assuming that Vereen's role is that of 2nd banana for rushing attempts and the 1st option for RB receptions, I'd expect that he'd see something about: 140 attempts /600 yards rushing & 45 rec/500 yards. TDs arent that reliable, but I'd be surprised if he didnt have one or two games where he had multiple TDs. I expect him to finish the season with about 1,000 - 1,100 total yards and somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 total TDs. I think he has upside from these numbers, especially if Ridley goes down with an injury or starts to fumble.
KCitons
Footballguy
I agree with everything, except that last part. I think both players need to be healthy, this will allow Vereen to be used in multiple positions while keeping defenses honest against a Ridley run. Vereen alone as the #1 RB for multiple weeks doesn't appeal to me.
Not a complete comparision, but Sproles is better at quality of touches, instead of quantity of touches.
KCitons
Footballguy
Been called a lot of things in my life, fancy was never one of them. If those 16-20 touches are in the role of Ridley and someone else (Bolden) steps in as the 3rd down/receiving back, I don't think it would all gold.Now, I've never been called fancy. But,I have been proven wrong.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Been meaning to sort this out in more detail for myself, and with all the Vereen chatter decided to take a real stab at how the New England backfield might shake out in the longer run.
Short answer: Ridley seems unlikely to lose first and second down work to Vereen, and similarly unlikely to take over third down work. Vereen has the profile of a career backup/role player. And Bolden couldn't be more of a wildcard.
Short answer: Ridley seems unlikely to lose first and second down work to Vereen, and similarly unlikely to take over third down work. Vereen has the profile of a career backup/role player. And Bolden couldn't be more of a wildcard.
GeeYouknit
Footballguy
Vereen was a free agent by the end of last season so we can draft him in our rookie draft, where do you think he will go or should go in a rookie draft compared to these other rookies?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Given his recent hype I'd guess you'll have to spend a mid/late first if you want to get him.
flc735
Footballguy
I have him on all my ppr dynasty teams. The best offer I received was a 3rd. If i shopped him around enough, I might be able to get someone to give me a 2nd. I think he is worth a late 1st but no one is going to spend that much for him.
Some people are funny about rookie picks. I can't imagine there is anyone who could honestly name 20+ rookies in this draft that they'd rather have than Vereen, yet many wouldn't offer up a top 20 pick for him. I'm not even super high on him, but I'd give up any pick outside of the top 10 or so pretty easily.
EBF
Footballguy
If Ridley went down Bolden would probably be the prime benificiary. Vereen is a strong sell right now, IMO.
When did you ever rate him as a buy?
EBF
Footballguy
The guy above said the best offer he's gotten is a 3rd round rookie pick. Is that a strong sell?In the other thread you said you would only give up a 3rd- who are the 24 or so rookies you'd take over him?
