Shanny's shananagins killed me. (1 Viewer)

[Beau Tocks]

Well the mastermind did it again. His last second t.o. call last night to freeze the Bironas cost me. Rather than a missed 54 yarder the Titan kicker gets a second try to go through, making me lose my contest this week by two freakin points. This kinda crap has got to stop, my Monday night ulcers are kicking up again due to this kind of buffoonery. Goodell's got to step in and do way with this aspect of the game that's hurting it's integrity not to mention my mental fragility.

 

[moleculo]

Well the mastermind did it again. His last second t.o. call last night to freeze the Bironas cost me. Rather than a missed 54 yarder the Titan kicker gets a second try to go through, making me lose my contest this week by two freakin points. This kinda crap has got to stop, my Monday night ulcers are kicking up again due to this kind of buffoonery. Goodell's got to step in and do way with this aspect of the game that's hurting it's integrity not to mention my mental fragility.

 

[timschochet]

You don't need Goodell to step in. What happened last night is something I long predicted, that eventually that stunt would come back to bite you in the face. It's just as likely that you will end up with a miss followed by a make than the other way around, and that is what occurred.

I suspect we won't see much more of this now...

 

[msommer]

Isn't it called 'icing' the kicker?

 

[Banger]

I was glad to see it blow up in his face. Didn't really matter in the end though.

 

[Cixelsyd]

We were all waiting for it to happen. I'm so glad it did... it allowed me to beat the Randy Moss/Tom Brady combo... as I had Brionis and Selvin Young against Lendale White and an 8 point lead... Without that 54yarder (9 point kick in our league) I would have lost.

So I get the FG and Mike looks like a fool. I think it's a stupid ploy... glad I reapped the benefits...

 

[Phurfur]

You don't need Goodell to step in. What happened last night is something I long predicted, that eventually that stunt would come back to bite you in the face. It's just as likely that you will end up with a miss followed by a make than the other way around, and that is what occurred.

I suspect we won't see much more of this now...

This is not true since all Kickers make over 50% of their attempts.

 

[Da Guru]

It is the coachs call, they can call a TO anytime they want. No need to make a rule about calling TOs. It can work or it can backfire.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Was not a good night for the use of timeouts by the Broncos. In fact it clearly cost them 10 pts (or 7 if Tenn settled for 3 on the TD).

#1 He gives Birones a 2nd bite at the apple and turns a miss into a make

#2 On 3rd and goal Tenn runs its play and is stopped short of the end zone, eveyone plays the play all out, but wait just before the snap Denver had called time out before the play had been run. This break gives the replay booth time to decide that they should review the 3rd down run by Vince Young and lo and behold the extra timeout taken by Denver results in replay reversing the ruling on the field and awarding Tenn a TD on the 3rd down play.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Keep this about the TO's and not someone's specific fantasy team and it can stay.

J

 

[KoolKat]

I still like this strategy. It did come back to hurt us this time, but I would not care if I saw him do it in the future.

On a side note, my team won because of this move!

 

[Paddy O'Seanessy]

You don't need Goodell to step in. What happened last night is something I long predicted, that eventually that stunt would come back to bite you in the face. It's just as likely that you will end up with a miss followed by a make than the other way around, and that is what occurred.

I suspect we won't see much more of this now...

This is not true since all Kickers make over 50% of their attempts.

To flesh out that bit of probability math, there are so many fewer occurences of an initial miss than an initial make that there is no way that the likelyhood of make/miss = likelyhood of miss/make

 

[massraider]

Bound to happen.

 

[CalBear]

You don't need Goodell to step in. What happened last night is something I long predicted, that eventually that stunt would come back to bite you in the face. It's just as likely that you will end up with a miss followed by a make than the other way around, and that is what occurred.

I suspect we won't see much more of this now...

This is not true since all Kickers make over 50% of their attempts.

To flesh out that bit of probability math, there are so many fewer occurences of an initial miss than an initial make that there is no way that the likelyhood of make/miss = likelyhood of miss/make

The probability of the specific case of missing, then making is exactly the same as the probability of the specific case of making, then missing. They're independent observations. What you're getting tripped up on is that the common case is the kicker making both kicks, but those cases aren't relevant to the discussion, because then the timeout didn't matter. (Cases where the kicker misses both can also be discarded). In the cases where the kicker misses exactly one kick, it's 50/50 as to which kick he misses.

Unless you believe that icing the kicker actually works. I think it's ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Pnishthm]

You don't need Goodell to step in. What happened last night is something I long predicted, that eventually that stunt would come back to bite you in the face. It's just as likely that you will end up with a miss followed by a make than the other way around, and that is what occurred. I suspect we won't see much more of this now...

You will still see it especially from Shanny. So far they still have one more win than they would have had they not pulled this crap.

 

[SSOG]

I've got no problem with it. I personally don't think it makes a difference in a kicker's chances of converting, but I acknowledge that it MIGHT make a difference, and it's not like Shanahan has something better to use those TOs on. They don't roll over from half to half or from game to game, you know.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

They don't call him Shanarat for nothing.

 

[SSOG]

They don't call him Shanarat.

Fixed.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Well the mastermind did it again. His last second t.o. call last night to freeze the Bironas cost me. Rather than a missed 54 yarder the Titan kicker gets a second try to go through, making me lose my contest this week by two freakin points. This kinda crap has got to stop, my Monday night ulcers are kicking up again due to this kind of buffoonery. Goodell's got to step in and do way with this aspect of the game that's hurting it's integrity not to mention my mental fragility.

 

[TinHat]

The probability of the specific case of missing, then making is exactly the same as the probability of the specific case of making, then missing. They're independent observations. What you're getting tripped up on is that the common case is the kicker making both kicks, but those cases aren't relevant to the discussion, because then the timeout didn't matter. (Cases where the kicker misses both can also be discarded). In the cases where the kicker misses exactly one kick, it's 50/50 as to which kick he misses. Unless you believe that icing the kicker actually works. I think it's ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time.

I disagree, they are not independentIf he has to boot 2 50 yarders, his leg will be more tired on the second tryIn general, I think that "icing" the kicker is a bad strategy - it gives the kicker a lot of time to line up his kick, measure the wind etc. But if you can make him actually kick it twice, then I think it swings the other way.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Only a matter of time before somebody gets hurt on one of these "non-plays".

 

[Das Boot]

Isn't it called 'icing' the kicker?

Forget it, he's rollin'

 

[Holy Schneikes]

The probability of the specific case of missing, then making is exactly the same as the probability of the specific case of making, then missing. They're independent observations. What you're getting tripped up on is that the common case is the kicker making both kicks, but those cases aren't relevant to the discussion, because then the timeout didn't matter. (Cases where the kicker misses both can also be discarded). In the cases where the kicker misses exactly one kick, it's 50/50 as to which kick he misses. Unless you believe that icing the kicker actually works. I think it's ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time.

I disagree, they are not independentIf he has to boot 2 50 yarders, his leg will be more tired on the second tryIn general, I think that "icing" the kicker is a bad strategy - it gives the kicker a lot of time to line up his kick, measure the wind etc. But if you can make him actually kick it twice, then I think it swings the other way.

"More tired"? Are you serious? If a professional kicker of footballs gets a "tired" leg attempting one field goal, he needs a new line of work. Have you seen them on the sidelines warming up before kicks by any chance?My inclination is to believe that is actually more likely the end result will be positive for the kicker (and kicking team) if he gets a dry run (make or miss, don't care because it doesn't count) before the "live" kick. Kind of like the 2nd free throw is much more likely to go in in basketball. That why I think we haven't seen a lot of this before. These guys live field goals and kickofs. Most have been doing it for a decade or three, and at this level, I suspect most are fairly immune to gimmicks whereas I would think a free "warm-up" kick on the field could only help.

 

[teamroc]

The probability of the specific case of missing, then making is exactly the same as the probability of the specific case of making, then missing. They're independent observations. What you're getting tripped up on is that the common case is the kicker making both kicks, but those cases aren't relevant to the discussion, because then the timeout didn't matter. (Cases where the kicker misses both can also be discarded). In the cases where the kicker misses exactly one kick, it's 50/50 as to which kick he misses. Unless you believe that icing the kicker actually works. I think it's ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time.

I disagree, they are not independentIf he has to boot 2 50 yarders, his leg will be more tired on the second tryIn general, I think that "icing" the kicker is a bad strategy - it gives the kicker a lot of time to line up his kick, measure the wind etc. But if you can make him actually kick it twice, then I think it swings the other way.

If making 2 kicks makes them so tired, why exactly do they kick 50 practice FGs into the net on the sidelines? If anything, it's a good practice kick. Then you can adjust for the next kick.

 

[SSOG]

Only a matter of time before somebody gets hurt on one of these "non-plays".

And? Players get hurt on "non-plays" all the time, whether those non-plays result from penalty or non-gimmicky timeout. Against Tennessee, Nate Webster noticed that Denver didn't have its goal-line defensive personnel on the field, so he called a timeout. The players didn't hear the whistle, the ball was snapped, and Vince Young was hurt on the "non-play". Should we now disallow players on the field from calling a timeout? Football is a violent game, and people can get injured doing pretty much anything at all. If a coach thinks that calling a timeout makes a difference, then let him call a timeout.

 

[numberSE7EN]

We were all waiting for it to happen. I'm so glad it did... it allowed me to beat the Randy Moss/Tom Brady combo... as I had Brionis and Selvin Young against Lendale White and an 8 point lead... Without that 54yarder (9 point kick in our league) I would have lost.

So I get the FG and Mike looks like a fool. I think it's a stupid ploy... glad I reapped the benefits...

A 54 yard fg is worth 9 points in your league?! Just curious to see how much TDs are worth in your league? I have not heard of fg being worth more than 5 pts or yardage *.1 54 yard fg = 5.4 pts. Not knocking your system, just interested.

 

[horseman]

I have heard of leagues where you get big bonus pts for a kick over 50yds. It is probably 5pts for a 50 yarder and 1 bonus pt per yard after that. Hence a 60 yarder would be worth 15pts in this system.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I have heard of leagues where you get big bonus pts for a kick over 50yds. It is probably 5pts for a 50 yarder and 1 bonus pt per yard after that. Hence a 60 yarder would be worth 15pts in this system.

I play in a league like this. It's actually pretty fun and puts a premium on dome/accurate kickers. It doesn't change things as much as people might think, but it can be a nice equalizer when you need a bosst from an unlikely source. There's really about as much strategy in picking a kicker as picking a tight end or defense.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

What I thought was interesting was at the end of the Jets/Steelers game, Mike Tomlin walked over to the ref and acted like he was waiting at the last minute to call a time-out, but then didn't. Nugent's kick made it through, but it wasn't his best kick by far, as he might have been thinking that the kick he was making didn't count. It appears that this little tactic has worked as far as getting into kicker's heads ... they don't know if they should try on the first one or what. Knowing that to be safe, they have to make two good kicks probably puts a lot of pressure on them

Ni