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Shooting at Texas school - Kids among victims (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter eoMMan
- Start date
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Yup. If more guns made us safer the U.S. would be the safest place on Earth. However w/r/t gun violence we're among the most dangerous.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
This may have been posted already, I don't know, haven't read most of this thread. Parts of this thread and several others make me sick to my stomach and boil with rage.
Rich Eisen speaking truth
Rich Eisen speaking truth
Amused to Death
Footballguy
In the last few days, the United States has again witnessed multiple mass shootings — first in Buffalo, N.Y., where 10 Black individuals were slaughtered in a racially motivated attack at a grocery store. Then, in Laguna Woods, Calif., a gunman opened fire in a church. Now, there’s yesterday’s massacre of children in Texas. FFRF deplores all gun violence, which, unfortunately, occurs on a regular basis in the United States, and will continue to speak out until a reason-based approach to meaningful regulation is adopted.
Already, religious platitudes — thoughts and prayers — are pouring out from elected officials nationwide. There are also calls for a “return to God” as a purported solution to the gun violence epidemic instead of calls for meaningful action. It is far past time that we take real steps to address these massacres rather than telling people to pray about it (which is the same as doing nothing).
For instance, Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick went on Tucker Carlson’s show hours after the killings to say, “We gotta unify in prayer. We have to unify in faith. . . . This was a country founded on faith, Tucker.”
Following the shooting, Rep. Brian Babin (also from Texas) espoused white Christian nationalist rhetoric, claiming: “The United States of America has always had guns. It’s our history. We were built on the Judeo-Christian foundation and with guns.”
It is a lie that the United States was built on a Judeo-Christian foundation — to the contrary it was the first country to explicitly omit all religious references in its Constitution, except for those separating state and church. Nor is it true that our Constitution requires us to guarantee unfettered access to assault weapons. The insistence by these elected officials to double down on the “God, guns and country” stance in the face of mass murders instead of enacting legislation to protect our children and our nation isn’t just insanity, it’s inhumanity.
Babin’s remarks follow a long trend of invoking religion rather than taking action to address gun violence. Rep. Tony Gonzales, whose district includes the site of the shooting, tweeted, “Pray for our families” along with a bible verse. Sen. Ted Cruz (who, of course, represents Texas) said he was “lifting up in prayer the entire Uvalde community,” adding that he does not see gun control measures as an appropriate response.
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott predictably commented, “The first lady and I extend our prayers of comfort to the survivors and the families of the victims, and we will continue to keep them in our thoughts and prayers.”
These statements are reminiscent of what Abbott said following the 2019 mass shooting in El Paso, when he called for the usual mindless “thoughts and prayers” at a press conference on the shooting and tweeted, “We ask God to bind up the wounds of all who’ve been harmed.”
The calls for prayer did nothing in 2019, and they will do nothing now. Our lawmakers, at both the state and federal levels, have the ability to address this recurring carnage if they choose to do so, but instead they appeal to religion and do nothing.
Link
Already, religious platitudes — thoughts and prayers — are pouring out from elected officials nationwide. There are also calls for a “return to God” as a purported solution to the gun violence epidemic instead of calls for meaningful action. It is far past time that we take real steps to address these massacres rather than telling people to pray about it (which is the same as doing nothing).
For instance, Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick went on Tucker Carlson’s show hours after the killings to say, “We gotta unify in prayer. We have to unify in faith. . . . This was a country founded on faith, Tucker.”
Following the shooting, Rep. Brian Babin (also from Texas) espoused white Christian nationalist rhetoric, claiming: “The United States of America has always had guns. It’s our history. We were built on the Judeo-Christian foundation and with guns.”
It is a lie that the United States was built on a Judeo-Christian foundation — to the contrary it was the first country to explicitly omit all religious references in its Constitution, except for those separating state and church. Nor is it true that our Constitution requires us to guarantee unfettered access to assault weapons. The insistence by these elected officials to double down on the “God, guns and country” stance in the face of mass murders instead of enacting legislation to protect our children and our nation isn’t just insanity, it’s inhumanity.
Babin’s remarks follow a long trend of invoking religion rather than taking action to address gun violence. Rep. Tony Gonzales, whose district includes the site of the shooting, tweeted, “Pray for our families” along with a bible verse. Sen. Ted Cruz (who, of course, represents Texas) said he was “lifting up in prayer the entire Uvalde community,” adding that he does not see gun control measures as an appropriate response.
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott predictably commented, “The first lady and I extend our prayers of comfort to the survivors and the families of the victims, and we will continue to keep them in our thoughts and prayers.”
These statements are reminiscent of what Abbott said following the 2019 mass shooting in El Paso, when he called for the usual mindless “thoughts and prayers” at a press conference on the shooting and tweeted, “We ask God to bind up the wounds of all who’ve been harmed.”
The calls for prayer did nothing in 2019, and they will do nothing now. Our lawmakers, at both the state and federal levels, have the ability to address this recurring carnage if they choose to do so, but instead they appeal to religion and do nothing.
Link
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
He's exactly right, people will talk about anything other than what really needs to be done. Disgusting.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
His dad's comments weren't much better - “I’m never gonna see my son again, just like they’re not gonna see their kids. And that hurts me.” The parents will eventually will be reuniting with their son in hell.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I thought someone posted he left his bag outside the school. Possible he ran out of ammo?
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
This is fair and probably what I should be doing if my emotions were in check better. I can’t say that I’m there though and the evidence so far seems pretty overwhelmingly against their actions.bigbottom said:
But if more info comes out that significantly changes things, and the info can be reliably verified (because at this point I don’t see any reason to take the local police at their word), then I will gladly walk back my sentiment and retract my less than kind characterizations.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I wonder if DeSantis will try to run the Rays out of Florida.
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla.—The Tampa Bay Rays have issued the following statement:
“We all deserve to be safe - in schools, grocery stores, places of worship, our neighborhoods, houses and America. The most recent mass shootings in Buffalo and Uvalde have shaken us to the core. The Tampa Bay Rays are mourning these heartbreaking tragedies that took the lives of innocent children and adults.
This cannot become normal. We cannot become numb. We cannot look the other way. We all know, if nothing changes, nothing changes.
The Rays organization stands committed to actionable change and has made a $50,000 commitment to Everytown for Gun Safety’s Support Fund. Everytown is the largest gun violence prevention organization in America. Rather than our usual game coverage on social media tonight, we’ve partnered with Everytown to amplify facts about gun violence in America.
We understand that no single organization can solve this crisis alone, but working together, we can make an impact. We invite you to join us and do what you can, when you can, where you can - because our lives depend on it.”
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla.—The Tampa Bay Rays have issued the following statement:
“We all deserve to be safe - in schools, grocery stores, places of worship, our neighborhoods, houses and America. The most recent mass shootings in Buffalo and Uvalde have shaken us to the core. The Tampa Bay Rays are mourning these heartbreaking tragedies that took the lives of innocent children and adults.
This cannot become normal. We cannot become numb. We cannot look the other way. We all know, if nothing changes, nothing changes.
The Rays organization stands committed to actionable change and has made a $50,000 commitment to Everytown for Gun Safety’s Support Fund. Everytown is the largest gun violence prevention organization in America. Rather than our usual game coverage on social media tonight, we’ve partnered with Everytown to amplify facts about gun violence in America.
We understand that no single organization can solve this crisis alone, but working together, we can make an impact. We invite you to join us and do what you can, when you can, where you can - because our lives depend on it.”
I think you've got to cut the parents a little slack. I can't imagine the mix of emotions that they are feeling. Disbelief that their kid could do something so terrible, possibly anger at the kid for doing it, sadness that their child is also dead, and that probably only scratches the surface.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Honestly, I don't care what the parents, relatives, neighbors, friends, pastor or anyone else has to say about this child murderer. The less coverage, the better.
Wildcat
Footballguy
What the dad said was acceptable IMO. What the mother said, "he had his reasons" is unacceptable and a terrible thing to say.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Sorry I can’t cut them slack. From all accounts, they didn’t even have a relationship with their son at that point. I don’t care what emotions they’re feeling - their son just massacred a bunch of little kids. If they feel any need to speak up at all, just leave it at “our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims of that school”.
Who knows if that’s true. The original story was that he was confronted on his way in which caused him to drop a bag but we now know that he wasn’t confronted.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Eh, I would log off for a while. I get that everybody is mad, but this is going way too far.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
As usual Eisen is off the rails a bit .
Agree with background checks.
Agree that open carry of rifles (and pistols in most cases) is ####### dumb. Those folks are near bottom of the barrel of gun ownership IMO.
He's poorly informed on several topics, but I appreciate where he's coming from.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
From the latest police update -
The DPS Director said students from room 111 & 112 at Robb Elementary in #Uvalde were calling 911 for around a half hour, giving police updates.
He said in multiple calls that kids were asking for help, telling police people had been shot, and that some people were still alive.
He now says the Facebook posts that were said to have been posted by the shooter saying he shot his grandma and that he was going to shoot an elementary school, were actually messages.
While children were calling police asking for help, officers were outside the school.
The DPS Director said the on-scene commander thought it had transitioned to a barricaded subject situation rather than an active shooter situation.
They now know that was wrong.
911 operators knew kids were alive in the classroom calling for help.
Officers treated it as a barricaded subject situation & waited for keys to the room & a tactical team to come.
There were 19 officers there, but the officer in charge thought they did not have the resources
The DPS Director said students from room 111 & 112 at Robb Elementary in #Uvalde were calling 911 for around a half hour, giving police updates.
He said in multiple calls that kids were asking for help, telling police people had been shot, and that some people were still alive.
He now says the Facebook posts that were said to have been posted by the shooter saying he shot his grandma and that he was going to shoot an elementary school, were actually messages.
While children were calling police asking for help, officers were outside the school.
The DPS Director said the on-scene commander thought it had transitioned to a barricaded subject situation rather than an active shooter situation.
They now know that was wrong.
911 operators knew kids were alive in the classroom calling for help.
Officers treated it as a barricaded subject situation & waited for keys to the room & a tactical team to come.
There were 19 officers there, but the officer in charge thought they did not have the resources
Uwe Blab
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Just an incomprehensible failure of law enforcement. Every single person involved should be fired and probably go to jail. They were outside handcuffing parents while their kids were dying and begging for help.
So much for the "good guys with guns will save us" argument.
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Insoxicated
So the shooter stopped on his own? Weird.... that's not what I'm reading.
And I agree the LEO were cowards and need to answer for their inaction.
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Uwe Blab
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Texas law enforcement jurisdiction is strange. The Texas DPS shouldn't be covering for the UVPD.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Schools should implement better safety measures
Good guys with guns can solve the problem
Schools should have armed security on site
Police can respond quickly enough to stop a shooter
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Insoxicated
PhillipPhoto
Footballguy
Oh so now LEO's are considered "good guys with a gun". Agree.
Let's recognize that a good guy with a gun did naturalize the killer. The timing is what is unacceptable.
More reason for regular citizens should to be prepared to defend their children if they have to. Let's see if we have an uptick in gun sales.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
YES! Because the more guns we have the safer we'll be! The last two years have seen record gun sales and we're much safer now!
Checks notes.....ah, never mind.
The General
Footballguy
Ridgeback
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Agree with the bolded.
But the conclusion of the bolded, IMO, would be to tighten up the existing security measures and review/update the response protocols. I'm not sure regular citizens running in there with guns is the answer. Since the timing was unacceptable, definitely apply focus there. Why did it take that long? What orders were given, and when? What was supposed to happen vs. what actually happened?
What I'd like to see is a review of the response in Texas that answers this question: If protocols were followed to the letter, could the number of fatalities have been reduced or brought to zero? And then review each individual component to address the failures.
Emotional responses like "we should ban all guns now!" or "everyone should go buy a gun now!" aren't productive IMO.
A difficult question to answer long term is "why does this happen with such frequency in the U.S.?" And have an open mind to those answers. I don't assume to know. Like with many things, the answer is probably complex and multi-layered. Perhaps some profiling should go into this analysis. For example, and without being an expert obviously, it seems pretty evident that one of the genders is more pre-disposed than the other to be the perpetrator in these attacks. Maybe that's a place to start.
Capella
Footballguy
Maybe the nation can stop it’s never
Maybe after this the country can stop its endless, mindless glorifying of cops. Probably not, because for a lot of people paying deference to those people is part of their self-identity, but I can hope.
Uh. No, I don’t agree with that at all.
Maybe after this the country can stop its endless, mindless glorifying of cops. Probably not, because for a lot of people paying deference to those people is part of their self-identity, but I can hope.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If you successfully persuade people that they can't rely on law enforcement to protect them, their family, and their property, do you think gun ownership will go down?
massraider
Footballguy
Just devastating. Authorities now say local officers 1st entered the school at 11:35, 2 minutes after the gunman, and 19 officers were in the hallway by 12:03, but did not breach the door & kill the gunman until 12:50, even as they contd to hear firing.
https://t.co/YfiUBR0zr6
https://t.co/YfiUBR0zr6
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
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Insoxicated
Haven't heard that anywhere else. Most reporting indicates LEO stayed outside the school restricting entry to parents/etc. Not sure where the truth will land.
Also read report that the Border Control Hero who finally took action took a bunch of rounds to the shield and one to the head (grazed wound, have seen images) immediately upon entering... then killed the shooter.
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HellToupee
Footballguy
At the first shot from inside the room any plan should’ve been thrown out the window and stormed the room
HellToupee
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
The link is to the NY Times, but there is so many different stories, I don't take anything as gospel right now.
the moops
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1530223196326215687?s=20&t=pM4zVFlmbMYHzRSCggH57Q
"What efforts were the officers making to try and break through either that door or another door to get inside the classroom?"
"None at that time"
"What efforts were the officers making to try and break through either that door or another door to get inside the classroom?"
"None at that time"
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
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Insoxicated
Fantasy_Freak
Footballguy
This is from USA Today from the press conference today.
The gunman fired shots at the school, then he entered the building through a door a teacher had left propped open and began shooting into the adjoining classrooms where the massacre occurred at 11:33 a.m., McCraw said. At least 100 rounds were fired, investigators determined based on audio evidence.
Three police officers from the Uvalde Police Department entered the school within two minutes and were followed by four others, three from the police department and one sheriff's deputy, McCraw said.
Two of the officers who first entered the school received grazing wounds from the suspect in an initial encounter with him, and after that, police did not engage the suspect for over an hour, according to McCraw's timeline.
The gunman fired at 11:37 a.m., 11:38 a.m., 11:40 a.m. and 11:44 a.m., McCraw said. More police arrived by 11:51 a.m. and by 12:03 p.m. — as many as 19 police officers were in the school hallway, he added. Before they breached, officers acquired keys from a janitor because the two classroom doors were locked, McCraw said.
So seven police officers were in the school prior to the shooters firing at 11:37, 11:38, 11:40 and 11:44 and did nothing? They sat and listened to these kids and teachers get shot? Then they waited over another hour before anyone went in to confront the shooter. One 18 year old had the 7 of them sitting pat while killing 10 year olds?
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