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Shooting at Texas school - Kids among victims (1 Viewer)

This video is horrifying. I wish I didn't watch it (I actually just stopped after a while). Something seems very off.
Same.  It literally made me ill.  I was all for "hardening the schools" and trusting the trained police to take care of things like this, but now...damn.  

More guns isn't the answer.  What happens if Jimbo gets the call that his kid is trapped in a school - he runs home, grabs his AR, and what...blasts his way past the LEO barricade?

 
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That sure contradicts the reports that they had him pinned down in a room.  How could that be it they didn't know where he was at? 
If they were interviewing a suspect giving the same amount of conflicting information that they are, they’d charge him. Pathetic

 
I haven't followed the story at all really... makes me sick to think about it.  But I'm honestly shocked that even if the police first on scene were out gunned that they didn't even try to get the kids out or engage the shooter.  Did they think they could negotiate with him or something?

Instead of putting money into on site armed police, put a vest and a rifle in every squad car and a $10m life insurance policy for every cop that dies engaging an active shooter. 

 
I haven't followed the story at all really... makes me sick to think about it.  But I'm honestly shocked that even if the police first on scene were out gunned that they didn't even try to get the kids out or engage the shooter.  Did they think they could negotiate with him or something?

Instead of putting money into on site armed police, put a vest and a rifle in every squad car and a $10m life insurance policy for every cop that dies engaging an active shooter. 


Police look horrible in this situation.  They need to stick to killing black guys that pass fake 20s I guess. 

 
I haven't followed the story at all really... makes me sick to think about it.  But I'm honestly shocked that even if the police first on scene were out gunned that they didn't even try to get the kids out or engage the shooter.  Did they think they could negotiate with him or something?

Instead of putting money into on site armed police, put a vest and a rifle in every squad car and a $10m life insurance policy for every cop that dies engaging an active shooter. 
I think it boils down to courage or the willingness to risk harm to oneself.  The first cops on scene encountered gunshots and they backed down.  After that decision was made, the other cops to respond were likely following orders to wait for the "tactical team." 

Cops are average people, not heroes.  As a group, they may even be less courageous than the average person.  This probably explains why many of them are so quick to kill in response to any small theat to their own safety.

 
Yeah, double plus ungood. 

Time for police to rewrite some policies and guidelines on protecting soft targets.
Policies and guidelines were changed 20+ years ago after Columbine. It’s been standard practice ever since then to immediately engage the gunman no matter what during a school shooting.

Unfortunately qualified immunity is going to protect them, but it would be great if someone could get the info on what their training was. My bet is that we’d find that their training was correct and that they were just cowards.

 
I Wonder if the classroom that he was in had any windows?  They said he barricaded himself in but they also said the cops were breaking other windows to rescue kids.  

 
I haven't followed the story at all really... makes me sick to think about it.  But I'm honestly shocked that even if the police first on scene were out gunned that they didn't even try to get the kids out or engage the shooter.  Did they think they could negotiate with him or something?

Instead of putting money into on site armed police, put a vest and a rifle in every squad car and a $10m life insurance policy for every cop that dies engaging an active shooter. 
There has been a lot of turnover in policing also.  I wonder how experienced they were.  Like the Oxford Mich shootings, I expect lawsuits here also.  
 

KP brought up a good point about the shooters being from that school district.  They would have pretty good knowledge of school procedures and the layout of the building.

 
Texas school killer Salvador Ramos got job at Wendy's to save up $4,000 for rifles he used to massacre 19 young children, and shared his lust for guns with worried co-workers

Quotes from several of his coworkers.

Seems like as soon as he had enough money & turned 18, he quit.

May 16 turned 18

May 17 bought his first AR 15

May 18 bought 375 rounds of ammo

May 20 bought second AR 15

After he crashed the truck, he dropped a bag with one of the guns

When he entered the school, he dropped his backpack outside the entrance on the sidewalk

Police found 7 30-round clips inside

 
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There has been a lot of turnover in policing also.  I wonder how experienced they were.  Like the Oxford Mich shootings, I expect lawsuits here also.  
 

KP brought up a good point about the shooters being from that school district.  They would have pretty good knowledge of school procedures and the layout of the building.
Not even from the district - former or current student of that school.

When I was reading that, I started thinking about my school back in the day.   Not planning something like this, but there were pranks and animals let in the school - dumb stuff like that.   Students knew which windows to try, which teachers showed up early, whatever.    Their point made sense that these measures didn't seem effective, and that's a possible reason why - the shooters are there during the drills and know the safety measures.  

 
911 had already been called and it still took the cops 4 minutes after he entered the school to respond.

How the school didn't go into lockdown mode with shooting across the street is beyond me as well. 
Another great point and a question that should be answered.  

 
So what you are saying is that culturally there are differences regarding suicides. 

So japanese people are more likely to complete suicide with/without access to a gun for other reasons. 

So if we were to look at the United States and we see where white males make up the vast majority of suicides and we see that in other races, that have access to firearms at sometimes higher rates, the suicide rates are vastly different, is it fair to conclude that there might be cultural forces in play in the US too? 
Of course that is a piece of the puzzle as well.    My comment was that there is for sure correlation when you look at states with high gun ownership and then combine that with looking at other countries.  

Where I disagree with people when they talk about "culture" around here is that it never seems to be things that pertain to us specifically.   Ie we jump to discussions about video games and violent movies - which everybody else in the world has.  

 
Not even from the district - former or current student of that school.

When I was reading that, I started thinking about my school back in the day.   Not planning something like this, but there were pranks and animals let in the school - dumb stuff like that.   Students knew which windows to try, which teachers showed up early, whatever.    Their point made sense that these measures didn't seem effective, and that's a possible reason why - the shooters are there during the drills and know the safety measures.  
There were students at a Maryland HS last week that broke into the school and had a fire extinguisher fight.  It’s the season for that.

 
Texas school killer Salvador Ramos got job at Wendy's to save up $4,000 for rifles he used to massacre 19 young children, and shared his lust for guns with worried co-workers

Quotes from several of his coworkers.

Seems like as soon as he had enough money & turned 18, he quit.

May 16 turned 18

May 17 bought his first AR 15

May 18 bought 375 rounds of ammo

May 20 bought second AR 15

After he crashed the truck, he dropped a bag with one of the guns

When he entered the school, he dropped his backpack outside the entrance on the sidewalk

Police found 7 30-round clips inside
Probably time to increase the scope of current background checks.

This family's financial situation is also very odd to me. Made fun of for being poor, drug user mom, saves 4k working at Wendy's, and family has a new model F250. 

 
Probably time to increase the scope of current background checks.

This family's financial situation is also very odd to me. Made fun of for being poor, drug user mom, saves 4k working at Wendy's, and family has a new model F250. 
Family has more care they can afford. That's not odd, that's American. 

 
Probably already mentioned, but how about making firearm age laws consistent with alcohol, tobacco, and gambling laws? They are all 21 and firearms are 18.

 
You think this is happening in Uvalde, Texas? 
Or, you know, quit.

And I honestly just can’t swallow that pill anyway. There were 10 year old terrified innocent kids being murdered one by one and they stood around and did nothing. What kind of cowardly snowflake do you have to be to let the words of a bunch of critics keep you from using your training to charge in with your gun and take out an 18 year old?

It’s mind boggling to me that they did nothing. It may be even more mind boggling to me that there are folks apparently willing to defend their inaction and even blame it on their critics. What actually happened is that these police officers proved their critics right.

Everyone on both sides of the aisle should be hopping mad about this. They just trashed the argument of good guys with guns being able to stop bad guys with guns. They trashed the idea that police are there to protect the innocent and that we should give deference to them because they’re willing to put their lives on the line. 

The more that comes out, the angrier I am getting about this. We can talk a lot about all the other ways that we can prevent stuff like this from happening, but it turns out that maybe a whole lot of what happened in this case could have been avoided if these officers had simply done their job.

 
Or, you know, quit.

And I honestly just can’t swallow that pill anyway. There were 10 year old terrified innocent kids being murdered one by one and they stood around and did nothing. What kind of cowardly snowflake do you have to be to let the words of a bunch of critics keep you from using your training to charge in with your gun and take out an 18 year old?

It’s mind boggling to me that they did nothing. It may be even more mind boggling to me that there are folks apparently willing to defend their inaction and even blame it on their critics. What actually happened is that these police officers proved their critics right.

Everyone on both sides of the aisle should be hopping mad about this. They just trashed the argument of good guys with guns being able to stop bad guys with guns. They trashed the idea that police are there to protect the innocent and that we should give deference to them because they’re willing to put their lives on the line. 

The more that comes out, the angrier I am getting about this. We can talk a lot about all the other ways that we can prevent stuff like this from happening, but it turns out that maybe a whole lot of what happened in this case could have been avoided if these officers had simply done their job.
Sure seems that way.  But I’d suggest waiting a bit until all the facts come out before reaching a definitive conclusion. At least one person I know who is connected here in Texas indicates that there are some additional facts that should come out in the next 24-48 hours that explains why law enforcement delayed. I don’t know. 

 
Max Power said:
Probably time to increase the scope of current background checks.

This family's financial situation is also very odd to me. Made fun of for being poor, drug user mom, saves 4k working at Wendy's, and family has a new model F250. 


Read an article this morning where a reporter tried to duplicate buying the same guns, ammo, tactical vest, et al, online. Took about 5 clicks and no more than 5-10 minutes. At no point was the buyer asked to verify age, intended use, etc.

Of course all background checks and age verification stuff gets done (if required) but the dealer these items were being shipped. But it was no different than ordering a new espresso machine.

 
Read an article this morning where a reporter tried to duplicate buying the same guns, ammo, tactical vest, et al, online. Took about 5 clicks and no more than 5-10 minutes. At no point was the buyer asked to verify age, intended use, etc.

Of course all background checks and age verification stuff gets done (if required) but the dealer these items were being shipped. But it was no different than ordering a new espresso machine.
Nope, easy as can be. I get 3-5 emails a day for guns, ammo or both. It's no difference than shopping Amazon. As you said, the FFL the weapon is shipped to works with the buyer to fill out the appropriate form and unless you have a concealed carry permit, you have to wait between 30-45 minutes while a background check is done. Sometimes if they are extremely busy, you'll be asked to come back later and they'll give you a call when the purchase has been approved or denied. This is SC's process, not familiar with other states.

The only thing that will throw a flag is if you have had a domestic violence charge against you, are an illegal alien, have a DUI or some mental issue. All of these questions are asked on the form along with some other questions. If you answer yes to any of them, it throws a flag. You can always just lie but the background check is supposed to cover that.

 
Read an article this morning where a reporter tried to duplicate buying the same guns, ammo, tactical vest, et al, online. Took about 5 clicks and no more than 5-10 minutes. At no point was the buyer asked to verify age, intended use, etc.

Of course all background checks and age verification stuff gets done (if required) but the dealer these items were being shipped. But it was no different than ordering a new espresso machine.
The only thing that has to go through a dealer is the lower reciever of an AR. His DD order can be shipped to an FFL all day long, but he needs to do the paperwork at the FFL. 

Ammo, gear and optics arent controlled items.

 
I.e. the police response. This is from a buddy of mine who was an NYPD officer and just retired from one of the Long Island PDs

Ny you are trained to make entry by any means possible even if you are alone. We were actually trained that if the school was locked and you have an active shooter, you were to drive your vehicle through the doors to make entry.

 
So I admit I have not followed this as closely as others, but I have a question that kind of dovetails into the PD response. IDK if its been covered in the thread already. 

if this kid had these high-powerd, semi-auto guns, and it took 40-60 minutes for cops to enter the building, why did he only attack 1 class?

now thank god he didn't cause more carnage, please don't misinterpret what I'm asking. But with 40 minutes and that firepower, he could have done severe damage to multiple classrooms. 

Was there evidence that he tried or reasons he was keeping himself in that 1 room? 

 
So I admit I have not followed this as closely as others, but I have a question that kind of dovetails into the PD response. IDK if its been covered in the thread already. 

if this kid had these high-powerd, semi-auto guns, and it took 40-60 minutes for cops to enter the building, why did he only attack 1 class?

now thank god he didn't cause more carnage, please don't misinterpret what I'm asking. But with 40 minutes and that firepower, he could have done severe damage to multiple classrooms. 

Was there evidence that he tried or reasons he was keeping himself in that 1 room? 
I get the impression that he barricaded himself in the classroom and he wouldve made himself vulnerable by leaving the classroom to go into the hallway.

 
I’ll see if I can find the link but there’s a story of an 11 year old who survived by playing dead and smearing her friend’s blood in her. First of all it’s just so disheartening that she had the knowledge to do this. That’s something you think to do in a war zone. We can’t allow this to be the normal.

But she mentioned more details that seemed to contradict the official reports. She said that by the time they got warning of a gunman that, it was too late. Her teacher tried to lock the door but he shot out the window and killed her and obviously others in her class. She said that she played dead in case he came back. So that seems to contradict that he was barricaded in one room and there was no way to get in.

She also said that she had no idea that the police were outside and assumed that they were still on their way. The story we’ve been told implies that they tried to intervene but failed until they got a room key. You’d think that this girl would have heard some of that effort.

It’s an 11 year old, so maybe the details are off but the more we hear from for witnesses, the more likely it becomes that they did nothing to try and save them. Too afraid for their own lives, they allowed these kids to be hunted and killed. I bet that there was supposed to be an armed guard on duty but wasn’t there and that’s why we got the false reports at the beginning.

 
I’ll see if I can find the link but there’s a story of an 11 year old who survived by playing dead and smearing her friend’s blood in her. First of all it’s just so disheartening that she had the knowledge to do this. That’s something you think to do in a war zone. We can’t allow this to be the normal.

But she mentioned more details that seemed to contradict the official reports. She said that by the time they got warning of a gunman that, it was too late. Her teacher tried to lock the door but he shot out the window and killed her and obviously others in her class. She said that she played dead in case he came back. So that seems to contradict that he was barricaded in one room and there was no way to get in.

She also said that she had no idea that the police were outside and assumed that they were still on their way. The story we’ve been told implies that they tried to intervene but failed until they got a room key. You’d think that this girl would have heard some of that effort.

It’s an 11 year old, so maybe the details are off but the more we hear from for witnesses, the more likely it becomes that they did nothing to try and save them. Too afraid for their own lives, they allowed these kids to be hunted and killed. I bet that there was supposed to be an armed guard on duty but wasn’t there and that’s why we got the false reports at the beginning.
They were two connecting classrooms that he barricaded himself into.

 
Rep. Texas Rep. Tony Gonzales claimed Friday that mass shooter Salvador Ramos was arrested four years ago after telling people he planned to shoot up a school once he turned 18. 

“The shooter was arrested years ago, four years ago, for having this plan for basically saying, you know, when I’m a senior in 2022, I am going to shoot up a school,” Gonzales claimed on Fox News.

“Something fell between the cracks between then and now to allow this to happen. We need to shake out all the facts. We need to figure out what happened,” he continued.

 
I’ll see if I can find the link but there’s a story of an 11 year old who survived by playing dead and smearing her friend’s blood in her. First of all it’s just so disheartening that she had the knowledge to do this. That’s something you think to do in a war zone. We can’t allow this to be the normal.
I saw this story and its just so sad that we'll allow active shooter training for 8 year olds to be normal. That we allow 11 year olds to have the knowledge to smear their classmates blood on them and play dead so they can survive.

And when these shootings continue to happen, the most we agree to change is to make fences higher, doors stronger, windows bullet proof and barred, and come up with Kevlar backpacks.

Just address the damn problem people - attitude and access.

 
I’ll see if I can find the link but there’s a story of an 11 year old who survived by playing dead and smearing her friend’s blood in her. First of all it’s just so disheartening that she had the knowledge to do this. That’s something you think to do in a war zone. We can’t allow this to be the normal.

But she mentioned more details that seemed to contradict the official reports. She said that by the time they got warning of a gunman that, it was too late. Her teacher tried to lock the door but he shot out the window and killed her and obviously others in her class. She said that she played dead in case he came back. So that seems to contradict that he was barricaded in one room and there was no way to get in.

She also said that she had no idea that the police were outside and assumed that they were still on their way. The story we’ve been told implies that they tried to intervene but failed until they got a room key. You’d think that this girl would have heard some of that effort.

It’s an 11 year old, so maybe the details are off but the more we hear from for witnesses, the more likely it becomes that they did nothing to try and save them. Too afraid for their own lives, they allowed these kids to be hunted and killed. I bet that there was supposed to be an armed guard on duty but wasn’t there and that’s why we got the false reports at the beginning.


Video (of the news report, not of the 11 year old smearing herself in the blood of her dead classmates).

 
Reportedly, the friend of the girl who smeared blood on herself and played dead was still alive when Border Patrol finally took out the shooter, but she died after getting to the hospital. She laid there bleeding for up to an hour.

Every parent who had a child in that room will wonder about that hour or so, what was going on, those officers who, I don’t know what the barricade was because he didn’t define it, but if it was simply a locked door, what the barricade was that prevented them from making their way in.



As we know, when the officers finally got in, there was at least one child who had another child laying on top of her who was playing dead. That child who was below was bleeding but still breathing. That child was rushed to the hospital and later died. The parents will forever wonder when that one hour, that golden hour, when there’s a traumatic injury, whether their child would be alive today if only the officers had gotten in there and pulled her out and gotten her the emergency medical care at that moment.

 

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